Usa Vs Thailand

[migrant]

Nice thread!

We (Thai wife) live in California, but plan to retire to Thailand in a few years so these comments are good.

We visit over in Thailand each year for 3 weeks, but realize visiting, and living, are different. Our ultimate goal will not be BKK. My wife is from the Cha Am area which is more expensive than most, but less than BKK.

You call Cha-am expensive, well mabey if you stay on the beach road, I can have Thai dinner for two person incl. beer in arroy or mums restaurant in Cha-am both are nice restaurants, and I will pay between 200 and 250 baht.

You are right, and we have enjoyed meals in both places! I mean't that we found Cha Am more expensive than places like Surat Thani, and other out of th way towns.

[KeyserSoze01]

As a Brit who lives in America and has also lived in Thailand , i can tell you that all 3 places have there upsides and downsides to boot , i think the only beneficial part to living in Thailand would be if i was an older gentleman that did not want to see my money get wasted in a nursing home but being of working age then i would never live there !

i think it offers nothing other then a great holiday destination 3 weeks then home would be sufficient .

i have really come to love America been here 5 years now and feel it is my home i get to work and play , own a home in my name and get treated great by Americans, there's not a double price for me and to be perfectly honest i get a huge cultural pass here . Before i came to live here i had a perception that Americans were general loudmouths but you could not be further from the truth especially here in the great pacific northwest GIVE ME AMERICA ANY DAY OVER THAILAND only downside to here is that work is your life but that's coming from someone born in a socialist country so i could be wrong there!

After having traveled far and wide searching for the ideal place to live, I have come to the conclusion that Valhalla does not exist, for me anyway. Every dog has different fleas, some worse than others. The same holds true for countries... So these days, I keep a place in the US as home base and travel often. Thailand is on my rotation and I enjoy it while there, although after a few weeks I am ready to move on. A lot of this attitude is due to the petty BS you have to put up with as a farang in Thailand.

Even with all of it's problems, the US is still the largest economy in the world and a civilized country as far as safety, the rule of law and infrastructure. Of course there are always exceptions. Yes, prices are going through the roof in some respects, but in other respects some prices are dirt cheap. Housing prices are ridiculously low due to the housing glut. The quality of food stuffs is top notch due to FDA regulations. I actually enjoy Thai food more in the US than in Thailand due to the quality of the ingredients and possible the preparation & chef where I eat.

When asked what the draw is to Thailand, I respond that for me it has to be the beauty of some areas of the country, friendliness of the people outside the tourist areas and of course, the women. I dare say that without Thai women being what they are in all their glory, that Thailand would in no way be as popular as it is with the tourist and expat communities.

[kerryk]

I am surprised no one has mentioned American Football.

And the fan experience.

I think I recognize one of the fans from a Thai Visa meet up.

[livinthailandos]

seems this thread or a similiar thread has been started in the past before if I recall. Anyways comparing these 2 countries weither it be based on fact or personal feelings towards either country will result in all sorts of opinions. being so i can only add mine

USA

1. Driving much more relaxing than here.

2. abundance of food and shopping ( easily comparable to here but shopping for clothes and electronics in the USA is much better than here in terms of pricing anyway and finding clothes that actually fit ( as far as food I prefer pizza, american breakfast from IHOP in the US

3. No double pricing

4. Less hassles of in person scams ( more online scams )

5. Infastructure like electricity and internet is more stable and reliable

6. Which stuff gets broken it gets fixed right away

7. Better customer service

CONS

1. Broken government system which looks like its becoming more like a 3rd country

2. More big brother state

3. Higher cost of living especially for rent and health care and car insurance

4. Nothing positive on the news only murder, death seem to be on the news all the time

5. Being able to understand every single comment from people and realize how much you didn't miss it

6. Sense of people who don't know or understand anything outside of the U.S.

7. Cannot compliment women as its considered sexual harassment

8. In order to get a cell phone have to get a contract

Thailand

Pros

1. Rent and health care are cheaper

2. You can get compliments from people here

3. Life feels like it has a slower pace here

4. No big brother state

5. Love the local thai restaurants and street stalls and thai market

6. Lower prices on eating out especially like japanese food depending on where you go

7. When your outside main population areas driving to other places more freedom on the road to just drive no worries about police stops stopping you because your driving to fast

8. No needing any contracts for getting a cell phone / mobile phone

9. Bills like phone, electric are way cheaper here than back in the US

Cons

1. Highly corrupt government that can get nothing done ever

2. Driving not necessarily stressful but can be quite annoying considering there might as well be no road rules for driving at all

3. It can take days or weeks to get things fixed

4. Lots of in person scams

5. Double Pricing

6. Customer service isn't up to par in many areas

[StreetCowboy]

seems this thread or a similiar thread has been started in the past before if I recall. Anyways comparing these 2 countries weither it be based on fact or personal feelings towards either country will result in all sorts of opinions. being so i can only add mine

USA

1. Driving much more relaxing than here.

2. abundance of food and shopping ( easily comparable to here but shopping for clothes and electronics in the USA is much better than here in terms of pricing anyway and finding clothes that actually fit ( as far as food I prefer pizza, american breakfast from IHOP in the US

3. No double pricing

4. Less hassles of in person scams ( more online scams )

5. Infastructure like electricity and internet is more stable and reliable

6. Which stuff gets broken it gets fixed right away

7. Better customer service

CONS

1. Broken government system which looks like its becoming more like a 3rd country

2. More big brother state

3. Higher cost of living especially for rent and health care and car insurance

4. Nothing positive on the news only murder, death seem to be on the news all the time

5. Being able to understand every single comment from people and realize how much you didn't miss it

6. Sense of people who don't know or understand anything outside of the U.S.

7. Cannot compliment women as its considered sexual harassment

8. In order to get a cell phone have to get a contract

Thailand

Pros

1. Rent and health care are cheaper

2. You can get compliments from people here

3. Life feels like it has a slower pace here

4. No big brother state

5. Love the local thai restaurants and street stalls and thai market

6. Lower prices on eating out especially like japanese food depending on where you go

7. When your outside main population areas driving to other places more freedom on the road to just drive no worries about police stops stopping you because your driving to fast

8. No needing any contracts for getting a cell phone / mobile phone

9. Bills like phone, electric are way cheaper here than back in the US

Cons

1. Highly corrupt government that can get nothing done ever

2. Driving not necessarily stressful but can be quite annoying considering there might as well be no road rules for driving at all

3. It can take days or weeks to get things fixed

4. Lots of in person scams

5. Double Pricing

6. Customer service isn't up to par in many areas

I'm surprised you spend so much time worrying about getting away with your bad driving, and so little on the consequences of your own bad driving, the bad driving of others and the relatively poor condition of most of the roads.

I suppose we are lucky that we can afford decent cars, so we are likely to walk away from fatal accidents - pedestrians and motorcyclists less so.

SC

[phetaroi]

I moved back to the States after the riots...just decided I was looking for a peaceful retirement. Overall, I'm glad I returned home. There are some things I miss -- like the "interesting culture" aspect. I often regret that I didn't see as much of the country as I had wanted to.

But, I moved to Colorado instead of back on the East Coast, so there's so much to see and do here...kinda makes up for the things I didn't see in Thailand.

I had a little bout of what appeared to be heart trouble after returning home. Here I KNOW I was treated properly, while if it had happened in Thailand I think I would have wondered. I never worry about the cleanliness of food here, but due to the elevation I've had to cut back on salt (and caffeine), so I am having to cook my own Thai food with salt substitutes for soy sauce, etc. As someone else mentioned, driving here is a breeze, even in downtown Denver. And I am enjoying getting back to a change of seasons, instead of hot, hotter, and hottest.

I'm glad I lived in Thailand for a while after retiring...mostly because I proved to myself I could do something drastic in my life, but in hindsight, living there half a year and here half a year might have been a better choice.

And finally, I will say that while I found Thais to be very friendly, I also discovered in a very sad and personal way that there is also very often a lack of sincerity.

[bonobo]

I am back in the US now for two weeks. Missing Thailand has not kicked in yet.

I am always amazed at how calm and relaxed driving is here. I tend to be more aggressive when driving in Thailand, trying to catch lights, merging, etc. Here, I just relax and take things as they come. Other drivers are pretty much just as polite.

And I love the grocery stores here. Whole Foods is a foodie's Nirvana.

I have already hit Fuddruckers, my favorite Mexican restaurant, Soupplantation, BBQ, Indian, and a prime rib house. And I have cooked burgers and steak.

TV is so much better now. I am writing this while watching TV now, in fact.

The gym is great here, too. People put away their weights, offer to spot, etc. That is a nice change-of-pace.

I have also spent about $1500 so far on perfume, cigars, skin creams, etc. Luckily none is for me but are orders fro friends, so my credit card is not killing me. On the other hand, I have made trips to Trader Joes and the Commissary so far, and I have a couple hundred dollars of groceries to bring back with me.

Give me another week, though, and I will be missing my Thai lunches, my two cats, my friends, and things back in Thailand.

I am happy to live in Thailand. But I do enjoy my trips back to the US and charging my batteries.

[chrisandsu]

keyser

correct on all points there! im married with a kid now so the lure has gone . Last night we went camping in a beautiful state park, snow peaked mountains in the distance.... had a great time and was very family orientated campsite was cleaned up before we got there by the previous campers had clean wash and toilet facilitys and i caught a steel head salmon down the river for lunch now where else do you get this? all for the princely sum of about $30 .

Edited August 14, 2011 by chrisandsu

[Shotime]

I've been back in the U.S. for close to 3 months, and, frankly, it's scaring me. Don't misunderstand me. I love the country, and, especially, the city of my birth. However, things have changed. Without going into many comparisons, just the fact that Michelle Bachman can win an election of any kind is frightening to me. I gave up on voting when Nixon got elected. I watch the national news, and it's funnier than Comedy Central. I took the train the other day, and over 50% of the people had their heads buried in their cell phones. They seem lost to me.

Anyhow, I'm leaving soon, and there are other factors for that. I'll be back in Thailand, but I'm not sure for how long. What with the economic situation here, and what's going on in Europe, I'm intending to try a country with a military junta. A solid military junta.

[migrant]

A couple comments on my thoughts

Sincerity of people

I live in southern California so it may be an exception, but I don't find any more sincerity here than anywhere else. I have a lot of friends, but they are really acquaintances, not friends. The true friends I have I can count on one hand. Don't get me wrong, I like, and enjoy, my acquaintances, but know I can count on my friends.

In Thailand my friends, to date, are my brothers-in-law who I do trust and know I can count on.

Driving

Again, maybe so Cal is an anomaly, but I expect people here to drive better so get angry more often than in Thailand. I don't drive in Bangkok, but I have found more polite drivers around Thailand than here in the states. Staying out of the fast lanes except to pass, using signals, etc I find better in Thailand.

Of course we have less oxcarts here in Orange county!! And people are usually on the right side of the road

[gregb]

I've been back in the U.S. for close to 3 months, and, frankly, it's scaring me. Don't misunderstand me. I love the country, and, especially, the city of my birth. However, things have changed. Without going into many comparisons, just the fact that Michelle Bachman can win an election of any kind is frightening to me. I gave up on voting when Nixon got elected. I watch the national news, and it's funnier than Comedy Central. I took the train the other day, and over 50% of the people had their heads buried in their cell phones. They seem lost to me.

Anyhow, I'm leaving soon, and there are other factors for that. I'll be back in Thailand, but I'm not sure for how long. What with the economic situation here, and what's going on in Europe, I'm intending to try a country with a military junta. A solid military junta.

As strange as this may seem I actually agree with your idea to look for a country controlled by a military regime. It is no surprise to find out that historically in times of severe crisis populations embrace dictatorships as the only effective form of government. The only problem is usually the transition from another form of government or between dictators. In the mean time, the country is stable. It may not be the most efficient, but it is very stable.

Looking around at the world and at the collapse that is likely to occur, stability, however you can get it, may not be a bad thing.

If you actually do this, please let us know how it goes. The few people I know who have moved from Thailand to China rave about how much more pleasant it is.

Edited August 15, 2011 by gregb

[Shotime]

Yeh. I wanted to add-a country with close ties to China.

[TeeKay]

As a Brit who lives in America and has also lived in Thailand , i can tell you that all 3 places have there upsides and downsides to boot , i think the only beneficial part to living in Thailand would be if i was an older gentleman that did not want to see my money get wasted in a nursing home but being of working age then i would never live there !

i think it offers nothing other then a great holiday destination 3 weeks then home would be sufficient .

i have really come to love America been here 5 years now and feel it is my home i get to work and play , own a home in my name and get treated great by Americans, there's not a double price for me and to be perfectly honest i get a huge cultural pass here . Before i came to live here i had a perception that Americans were general loudmouths but you could not be further from the truth especially here in the great pacific northwest GIVE ME AMERICA ANY DAY OVER THAILAND only downside to here is that work is your life but that's coming from someone born in a socialist country so i could be wrong there!

If you think the US Pacific NW is wonderful, try going north to Canada's left coast. Being Canadian living in Thailand for well over 6 years I know the enchantment the Pacific NW has. Nothing like, period.

[Dave9000]

Back to the thread,

A couple things before you read as I tried to make my comparison fair. I am not married(Have a very nice self sufficient Thai GF). My Health is excellent and I am fit and free to do whatever I want. My children days are behind me now so I do not have to concern myself with all the educational debates. I am an early retiree by most peoples standards but suspect I will find some part time work to stay busy as time goes on. I think all comparisons will highly depend of each persons status and position in their current lives.

With that said I left the US to see how I would like living in Thailand. I can say this up to this point. One of the best things afforded anyone is the ability to leave your home country and live abroad. It allows you see your home country with different eyes. After my nearly 4 year stay here, It is not an easy comparison and no one place has it all. Its all in your personal perception and tolerance level. I will not dive into politics as they are corrupt all over the world and bring no value to the thread.

Here is what I have found;

* As to the OP comparing BKK to the suburbs of Florida that is like comparing NY to Wyoming. Not realistic. NY, LA, Philly are dirty, filthy and congested too with terrible air and a lousy stench from the sewers. Congestion is bad and cost of living in the city is ridiculous. You cannot drink the tap water in either place. I live south of Bangkok nearing a beach city(NO NOT PATTAYA) as I grew up in Santa Cruz, California. Comparing the 2 places I lived are pretty close and I can say that straight up that Thailand has it beat hands down. Cost, food, lifestyle, laws, rules, traffic etc. I loved Santa Cruz, still do, but here is just simply better. The people are nicer, no parking permits or meters. I go to the markets every night on my moto and grab up the fresh food I like for a few bucks. Food diversity can be had easily where I live. Seafood to Pork to Chicken prepared as BBQ'd style, Soups or fried up with vegetables from bland to spicy. Choice is yours. I LOVE not having to spend 1 hr cooking and cleaning pots, pans and other dishes. I can drive into the main town and have a beer on the street and watch people and no cop is going to hassle me. I am a very active person so freedom to get around is far better here. As with both places you make it what it is. My life is not about being comfortable with food.

* In the US you will have to basically work until you die. The cost of everything drives you to this. If you believe a house is a nest egg better think again. Most people will not be able to afford their property taxes when they want to retire and most people will still be only partially into their long term mortgage. Here you can rent and live well for 10X less. Of course the key here is learning and enjoying living with less. A simple life can be had here where the US is all about keeping up with the "Joneses". I had all the fancy things, big houses, fancy cars in the end it was all more of a show then what I needed. Here I am free of that social pressure.

* There are far to many constraints in the US with laws, rules, regulations and the fees you have to pay to enjoy any sort of activity. Here I can get a pulled over and it is $2 bucks, US that will be 100X more plus your insurance rate will rise. Just driving the length of California will cost you a fortune in gas costs and no you will not eat well on that trip. Traveling around the US is very very costly. Here you can hop a bus, van or train and go north to south quite affordably and every stop offers far healthier food. Here I can fish anywhere any time and no license is required. The list is huge. comparing.

* Public transportation here has the US beat hands down. In the US your are forced to buy a car. With that comes mandatory very expensive insurance and registration fees. If your car breaks it is very costly to maintain and you have basically 1 fuel option. Here you have 4 fuel options. Petroleum, Diesel, GNG and LPG. I love my LPG car, Taxes for the year are a few hundred Baht and insurance is10K baht.

* One of the biggest things to me is not having my life evolve around TV and all the relentless drug commercials. The US sells sickness. It is a huge business. US TV is horrific and sadly that is what most people in the US live for, TV. This is primarily due in part as they cannot afford to do much. People eat terrible food, watch terrible TV and then get up and go sit in a 10 x 10 cubicle and work. Not much of a rewarding life IMHO. To each his own I suppose. it costs far more to eat right and healthy in the US then it is to eat poorly. Its all about convenience.

* Hmmm Medical. Although in excellent health at this time of writing, I have used the medical here a few times, once was for me, the other was for my GF. Mine was to remove 2 annoying moles near my belt line. I was going to do that in the US years back and first I had to go to reg doctor. $25 co-pay. He then referred me to a dermatologist, Ins covered 50% of initial visit. The process was going to be $680 which again ins would cover 50% as they deemed it "Cosmetic". So I blew it off. Here I walked in with my GF, They said sit down, Looked at them. Walked me to laser room. Numbed it up and poof both were gone in 15 minutes. Cost?....$28 bucks with ointment(Neosporin). Medical in the US is pathetic and a huge debate. I just saw some stats the other day that 48% of the people who file bankruptcy do it because of medical bills and expenses and of that 48%, 77% had medical insurance. Most people in the US will spend everything that they saved for retirement to sustain their health and probably never go anywhere. They are conditioned to stay close to their primary physician.That's all I will say about medical.

* I like very much here that I do not have to sign a long term contract with a cell phone agency. Us they suck you in over and over.

* In the US it is a debt driven society. The more you are in debt, the more money the bank will loan you. Here it is a cash based society. I like cash life style. Pay, its done, no hidden interest rates or bill worrying. You buy what you can afford and this drives you to buying needs, not wants. The US makes it far to easy to become debt ridden and charge you to death for it. This explains the excessive consumerism.

* I admit that it is far easier to get things in the US but I think that is only because I do not know how to here yet. Thais seems to do just find. This is part of the learning process and I like that. I am always very elated when I found a place that has something I really need. Its these simple things I appreciate and enjoy.

* (For the single men) As for women (since it is a huge part of why some come here) US woman are pretty materialistic and shallow for the most part. But it is the upbringing and the culture in the US that instilled these values. You better have a nice house, top of the line car, a good job and very good education or you are in trouble. Dating in the US is quite costly, marriage is even more.. I will never marry again for my own personal reasons but one thing that is very clear to me, If I was going to marry here I would never take her back to the US to live. The beauty of a Thai woman is her culture here in Thailand. I have seen over and over how men marry woman from Asian countries, take them back to US and in no time it is upside down. It does not take long for the western culture to jade her quickly. I know this to be very factual as I worked for a manufacturing company that most of the Asian assemblers had come to the US through marrying a US man and in no time it was over. They quickly see that wealthier men exist who will take them in quickly as American woman to a great number of men are unattractive. Of course in a forum environment we have to speak in generalizations. I am aware many last. What the ratio is I have no idea. I just personally know far more that failed then survived.

* I have bought a few items in Thailand and returned them without issue. It is not a common Thai activity but If you just ask, you can.

* I miss very little from the US except a good beer and tortilla chips. I can make better Salsa then the US and fresh everyday, I just need some <deleted> chips...

For now, I enjoy visiting the US, get a few things I need, enjoy a good beer with my dad but am very happy knowing I am coming back. I am not trapped here nor the US so I can enjoy what I need. and want. Maybe that makes Thailand better.....

Well put together and a good, sound analysis without the usual nationalistic emotion. It is good to be able to step away and make objective comparissons. I admit to judging Thailand by my home country standards; your post has caused me to re evaluate my own beliefs. Thanks.

[Gary A]

I tried to retire in Thailand early. It didn't work out financially. I returned to California to a good job offer.

I worked in California for a total of five years and hated every minute of it. I got to the point that I despised Southern California.

That was actually good for me because I didn't socialize and lived as cheaply as I possibly could. I built up my pension fund and Social Security plus saved a good deal of money. I couldn't wait to get back to Thailand.

I'm comfortable and content here and if not for my family in the US I would never go back even for a visit.

My son in W. Virginia has a fairly large piece of land. The last time I was back there he took me to a very scenic part of it and told me that was where we were going to build my house. He is determined that I'm going to move back.

The only place I EVER want to see ice again is in my glass. I'm not going back unless something really drastic happens and I have no other choice.

[xthAi76s]

I came to Bangkok from NYC. Met my Thai wife abroad in the US. We don't have kids, so I don't think about the many associated issues, and we are rather young and healthy, so we don't worry about the associated issues there either.

NYC -- Pros for me

Better employment options for me (six figure income which was pretty good for my needs and which I should be able to go back to such that things don't pan out in Thailand)

Much better variety of food (I miss to death Korean food, Indonesian, Malaysian, Vietnamese, Mexican, Cuban, Argentinian (steak houses), Uzbek and Russian, French, decent Italian, etc)

Much better liveliness of the city (NYC is just rather unique when it comes to excitement, and Asians in Asia, by comparison, are culturally just rather reserved for the most part)

Much cleaner (other than Chinatown in NYC which is still cleaner than most parts of Bangkok, NYC is pristine for such a large city)

Much better walkability of the city (safe sidewalks and no motor vehicles to watch out for;

nothing

like taking a stroll through SoHo on a Saturday morning)

Better public transportation in the city (efficient, extensive and cheap)

Lower cost of higher quality goods (high quality is something which is still treated as a luxury in Thailand, so a premium is paid for it -- a premium which really targets the very wealthy in Thailand)

Bangkok -- Pros for me

Lower average age than NYC (which makes for a more youthful feel to the city)

Cheaper good quality food (but only Thai food is a good value)

Better weather (warm and sunny most of the year)

Lack of many regulations (much of what makes NYC living so comfortable is missing in Bangkok, and that is what makes Bangkok so adventurous)

Lack of competition (it's rather easy to be much more competitive in Bangkok as the culture is lax and the overall education lower)

Opportunity

(although it's hard to find real opportunity in many places, it is certainly easier to find in Bangkok than it is to find in NYC; this is reason I'm in Bangkok)

For me, Bangkok is fun and I'm trying to exploit some opportunity here, but in most other categories of living, living in NYC is just splendid. There really is no place like NYC anyway. Diversity of people (Queens has more nationalities and spoken languages than any other city on Earth), diversity of food, liveliness of people (Western style 'walk up to a stranger and strike up a conversation' warmness), quality of goods and services, ability to openly express yourself/views/etc (liberal feel), fall afternoon walk through Central Park -- these are all things I enjoy about NYC.

[johnbits]

For the OP and others that have a Thai spouse and have lived both in the USA and Thailand, what does your Thai spouse think about the USA?

For those like myself from the USA, Thailand looks exotic, but for a Thai the USA should also look exotic.

[xthAi76s]

For the OP and others that have a Thai spouse and have lived both in the USA and Thailand, what does your Thai spouse think about the USA?

For those like myself from the USA, Thailand looks exotic, but for a Thai the USA should also look exotic.

My wife liked much of NYC but disliked most the very rapid pace of things. She also very much disliked the attitude of the people where we lived (financial district area downtown). And, although she had a very decent job while in NYC, she disliked being at a cultural and (somewhat) language disadvantage in the US. But, she always says, if we are to make it big, she would want to retire somewhere in California, so I take that as her ultimate preference.

[craigt3365]

For the OP and others that have a Thai spouse and have lived both in the USA and Thailand, what does your Thai spouse think about the USA?

For those like myself from the USA, Thailand looks exotic, but for a Thai the USA should also look exotic.

Wifey LOVED NYC. So do I. We miss it terribly. Great food, great entertainment, great fun. BUT! Super expensive (I.E. We would both probably have to go back to work...retired here). And lousy weather. Plus, we like a house better than an apartment. Nice to swim naked in your own pool at midnight without any peeping toms.

We also lived just outside Vegas for several years. She liked Vegas a lot, I don't.

As for living here vs. there, we debate this on a regular basis. Pros for living here:

lots of great friends for her, cheap shopping, cheap eating out, cheap entertainment, cheap clothes, warm weather, cheap seafood right on the beach...oh, did I mention cheap?

Pros for living in the US: use to be exotic, but not now, great TV, better stuff for cooking (i.e. pie crusts), more varieties for eating out (mexican, korean, ethopian), quality of clothes seem to be a bit better, quality of house goods are better, WINE!!!!!

I think for both her and I, if the costs were exactly the same, we would probably be back in the US. We do love it here, but cost is a huge factor.

[johnbits]

One of the biggest differences for me relates to the effects that large corporations have had on the USA culture.

IMO corporations have used the USA Gov to create regulations designed to stifle competition from small entrepreneurs. As a result, it is very difficult in the USA to start a small business. Personal freedoms have also suffered a great deal.

The USA is still a great place to start a large business, like Facebook, but it is next to impossible to start a small food cart like you see all over in Thailand. Hot dog stands used to be get places in USA cites to get a great beef, sausage or hot dog, now they have all be disappeared because of regulations put in place to kill small business, usually in the name of safety. This applies to starting any small business, not just those related to food.

Service is generally better in the USA, with the exception of health care.

In general I feel far safer in Thailand in regards to street crime. The level of violence in the USA is far greater, though of course that depends on where in the USA you are at the moment. There are areas I have lived such as poor areas in South Chicago where you have to be on guard constantly or you are likely to become a murder victim. In poor areas in Thailand I haven't seen the same level of violence. On the other hand, I have lived in wealthy areas in Virginia or San Fran, where it is quite safe.

Scams are much more professional in the USA. Scams in Thailand are naive and to my eyes are both entertaining and transparent. While in the USA you have to watch out for crooked banks, crooked doctors, crooked corporations, charities that really only benefit those that run the charity. The USA has crooks like the recent MF Global or scams like Bernie Madoff that affects thousands and often millions of people. Not to mention the real estate bubbles and attendant bank loan problems.

The culture in the USA is the most diverse on the face of the earth. Many have spoke about the differences between places like Iowa and NYC. They are all part of the USA, while 95% of Thailand is buddist and Thai, and the culture can vary from Buriram to BKK, but really not anywhere close to the variation you can get from one neighborhood to the next in a city like Chicago or NYC. Moving from NYC to Pittsburg KS is like moving from the earth to the moon. I dare say any NYC resident would be far more at home in BKK than they would in most cities in the farm belt.

The more money you have, the better a place the USA is to live. The younger you are, the better it is. Older single men that are are less wealthy than rock stars have it far better in Thailand. People from the USA that are married might want to retire in Thailand, but that is mostly because they are taking their USA retirement benefits / savings and living in a generally cheaper country.

What has surprised me the most is the general lack of quality in many Thai goods, the high prices of cars / electronic merchandise. I enjoy the cell phone freedom in Thailand, in the USA buying a cell phone generally means buying a 2 year contract and having a difficult time switching your cell phone.

Most all advantages of living in Thailand derive from the lack of regulations (or enforcement of same), the very low cost of labor, the younger population, and the Buddhist mentality.

Thai's seem superficially more pleasant, but they also seem quite catty, gossip non-stop about each other, take revenge very seriously, and while they don't “keep up with the Jones” they do buy that expensive car for the “face” value.

[lovetotravel]

100% agree with some things, but not all. Have you tried running a biz here? A food cart? Impossible unless you bribe the police, and even then, pretty much impossible. The work rules here are very strict. No so in the US.

As far a competition here, it's no holds barred. Somebody can open up shop right next to you with the exact same name and products. Nothing you can do. Some have done very well here in Thailand, many have not.

I agree the US has gone overboard on rules and regulations, but many are very, very good. Like drunk driving, medical malpractice, food safety, etc.

[johnbits]

For the OP and others that have a Thai spouse and have lived both in the USA and Thailand, what does your Thai spouse think about the USA?

For those like myself from the USA, Thailand looks exotic, but for a Thai the USA should also look exotic.

Wifey LOVED NYC. So do I. We miss it terribly. Great food, great entertainment, great fun. BUT! Super expensive (I.E. We would both probably have to go back to work...retired here). And lousy weather. Plus, we like a house better than an apartment. Nice to swim naked in your own pool at midnight without any peeping toms.

We also lived just outside Vegas for several years. She liked Vegas a lot, I don't.

As for living here vs. there, we debate this on a regular basis. Pros for living here:

lots of great friends for her, cheap shopping, cheap eating out, cheap entertainment, cheap clothes, warm weather, cheap seafood right on the beach...oh, did I mention cheap?

Pros for living in the US: use to be exotic, but not now, great TV, better stuff for cooking (i.e. pie crusts), more varieties for eating out (mexican, korean, ethopian), quality of clothes seem to be a bit better, quality of house goods are better, WINE!!!!!

I think for both her and I, if the costs were exactly the same, we would probably be back in the US. We do love it here, but cost is a huge factor.

Yes, I agree, most advantages in Thailand relate to cost of living, which I think is mostly the much lower labor rate.

Of course, for an older single man, the other advantage is the Asian respect for older people, desire for white colored skin and their gulit free acceptance of sex, which results in a great place for a older single man to retire to or vacation in. That is what makes the biggest difference for most men. And even those who are married mostly are retire to Thailand are married toThais.

[thaiIand]

100% agree with some things, but not all. Have you tried running a biz here? A food cart? Impossible unless you bribe the police, and even then, pretty much impossible. The work rules here are very strict. No so in the US.

As far a competition here, it's no holds barred. Somebody can open up shop right next to you with the exact same name and products. Nothing you can do. Some have done very well here in Thailand, many have not.

I agree the US has gone overboard on rules and regulations, but many are very, very good. Like drunk driving, medical malpractice, food safety, etc.

we run a restaurant right in the center of the town in a shophouse. No bribe, no taxes and no permit.. been open for 14months now. Will probably start selling draft beer on top of bottles soon and we still won't need a license.

It's the same for almost every other places.

[lovetotravel]

100% agree with some things, but not all. Have you tried running a biz here? A food cart? Impossible unless you bribe the police, and even then, pretty much impossible. The work rules here are very strict. No so in the US.

As far a competition here, it's no holds barred. Somebody can open up shop right next to you with the exact same name and products. Nothing you can do. Some have done very well here in Thailand, many have not.

I agree the US has gone overboard on rules and regulations, but many are very, very good. Like drunk driving, medical malpractice, food safety, etc.

we run a restaurant right in the center of the town in a shophouse. No bribe, no taxes and no permit.. been open for 14months now. Will probably start selling draft beer on top of bottles soon and we still won't need a license.

It's the same for almost every other places.

Not sure I can agree with that. I have many friends who own/run restaurants here. I've been in them when the BIB come in. Watched the whole thing. There's a guy who runs a restaurant out of town here. Complained about noise next door. Guess it was a hi-so. Police were there shortly thereafter and he had to move his biz. No reasons given other than "gotta go". That would never happen back home.

I hope the best for your biz, but without a license, you are leaving yourselves wide open. Just takes one unhappy competitor to complain.

[bonobo]

Coincidently, as this thread was resurrected, I was online looking at where to buy a house in the US. My home in San Diego just sold as a result of a divorce decree, and I am trying to decide what to do. Due to the huge legal fees, even if I sort of "won" my divorce case (coupled with losing well into the 6 figures when a debtor company to me just filed for bankruptcy), I don't have enough to really buy a good place in San Diego, so I am exploring other options.

I "retire" in 6 years. And now I have a house full of stuff that I have to get out of that house by February. So do I pack it in a container and bring it here? Do I store it there?

My plan had been to live in both Thailand and the USA. Both offer me things that the other does not. In the US, I get better food, free medical care (from the VA), much better tv (yes, I am a bit of a junkie), better traffic, better movies, better service, better internet, better variety of life. cheaper cars, cheaper gas, full insurance coverage, laws and regulations which are uniformally administered, much better redress for bad products/services/etc, and I can date more women with a higher degree of commonality.

In Thailand, I get a tax break for working in a foreign country, many items are less expensive, I have good friends, I like quite a bit of the culture, I am more attractive to more women who still want to have kids (never having any with my ex, I do want that), I like differences (and living in an "exotic" land fills a need for that), and I find it mentally stimulating.

So now I have to decide what I want to do. Is my plan to live in both countries when I retire still alive? If it is, do I step down from a nice home to a condo in San Diego, or do I buy a house in Portland or Austin now while prices and interest rates are low and rent it out for six years? Or do I just give up on the US and make my bed entirely here in Thailand, shipping all my personal effects here?

To be honest, I don't know what I want.

[johnbits]

100% agree with some things, but not all. Have you tried running a biz here? A food cart? Impossible unless you bribe the police, and even then, pretty much impossible. The work rules here are very strict. No so in the US.

As far a competition here, it's no holds barred. Somebody can open up shop right next to you with the exact same name and products. Nothing you can do. Some have done very well here in Thailand, many have not.

I agree the US has gone overboard on rules and regulations, but many are very, very good. Like drunk driving, medical malpractice, food safety, etc.

I think it is likely easier for a Thai to open a business in the USA than for a farang to open a business in Thailand. But the millions of food carts suggest it is quite easy for a Thai to start their own small food business. I think the bribes are just the grease to get things going, and it turns out cheaper and faster.

But the USA has evolved beyond simple bribery to making it part of the system. One has to hire a union worker and pay a minimum amount of hours to carry a ten pound package from your van to a display stand in McCormick Place for an exhibition there.

A friend wanted to open a hot dog stand in Houston, it would cost him $25,000 up front because of all the regulations. Another friend had a small consulting company with less than 50 people, he got sued 4 times in less than 4 years, and he is a very careful CEO / manager. He won all the law suits, but a less skillfull person would have had to pay up. The only one that made money in those situations were the lawyers, and guess who makes the rules in the USA?

Now we have speed traps with camera detectors and $100 – $1000 tickets.

We in the USA we have to hire a lawyer to do virtually any sort of business at all, and anyone with any sort of money has a lawyer on retainer. All of our elected officials are also lawyers.

We don't call it a bribes, we call it rules.

[lovetotravel]

We don't call it a bribes, we call it rules.

Well put! Bribes here do make many things "easier".

Bonobo: I lived in SD for many years. Miss it terribly, except for the traffic and high cost of living. Home prices are very expensive and eating out ain't cheap either. Not to mention that 9%+ ding or so on your income. But it is a very beautiful city. A bit cool, especially in the winter. I didn't swim in the ocean there very much!

Portland is pretty dreary for me. I've heard great things about Austin, but aren't the property taxes quite high?

I've looked into shipping my stuff here and with the customs issue, not sure it is worth it. If you figure it out cheaply, let me know!

[bonobo]

We don't call it a bribes, we call it rules.

Well put! Bribes here do make many things "easier".

Bonobo: I lived in SD for many years. Miss it terribly, except for the traffic and high cost of living. Home prices are very expensive and eating out ain't cheap either. Not to mention that 9%+ ding or so on your income. But it is a very beautiful city. A bit cool, especially in the winter. I didn't swim in the ocean there very much!

Portland is pretty dreary for me. I've heard great things about Austin, but aren't the property taxes quite high?

I've looked into shipping my stuff here and with the customs issue, not sure it is worth it. If you figure it out cheaply, let me know!

If I live part time in the US, I can live in Portland during the beautiful summer months, here in Thailand the rest of the time. And Texas is the third cheapest place as far as total taxes go (with Austin being a far more liberal leaning city than anywhere else in Texas.) I need a vibrant social scene (restaurants, grocers, museums, etc) access to a VA, and no taxes on military retirement pay. And since I am losing my house in San Diego, I might as well pick my legal US residence now.

As far as shipping my goods, I have read that there are some provisions for people on work permits, but I have not gotten to the bottom if that is the case in reality when your container is sitting there at the docks.

[AndyBlueEyes]

The things I enjoy best about Thailand as opposed to the US are inexpensive massage ( I get one or two everyday) and the many beautiful Asian women ( I do not get one everyday as my gf does not approve) and the more adventuresome style of living in a strange land where I usually do not understand the language. Most everything else, I prefer the US expecially in area of cleanliness of water supply, food handling, culture and the arts, and variety of things to do. I am fortunate that I am able to go back and forth between the US and LOS and enjoy the best of both worlds but if I were mandated to choose only one place to live, it would be the good old USA even with all it's current problems .

[craigt3365]

If I live part time in the US, I can live in Portland during the beautiful summer months, here in Thailand the rest of the time. And Texas is the third cheapest place as far as total taxes go (with Austin being a far more liberal leaning city than anywhere else in Texas.) I need a vibrant social scene (restaurants, grocers, museums, etc) access to a VA, and no taxes on military retirement pay. And since I am losing my house in San Diego, I might as well pick my legal US residence now.

As far as shipping my goods, I have read that there are some provisions for people on work permits, but I have not gotten to the bottom if that is the case in reality when your container is sitting there at the docks.

That would be a great option. I do miss the cultural side of life in the US. Concerts, plays, libraries, etc. Wifey misses this also!