whybother Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Remember who spun the meme the red shirts would whinge after the election? Turns out the sore losers sitting in the other camp. Well at least they are only sitting, not running around shooting and burning, as the reds surely would be doing right now, were positions reversed. Would they? If the unwanted one had decided to dissolve the parliament and call for a snap election two and a half years ago all that terror during that dark period could have been avoided and no one would had to shoot these 90+ people to death in the life fire zone. But the unwanted one hesitated to let the people decide. That was all the red shirt people asked for. I just wonder why the newly formed PTP (who were actually in government after the PPP were disbanded) didn't call an election instead of going for a PM vote again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Rumours and <deleted> The standard response of a disciple trying to defend the indefensible. I know you are a strong believer in fairy tales but if you read in the The Nation: "A source said ..." its time to start the bullsh_t detector. They do that for much the same reason that you didn't create your forum login with your real name, you managed to grasp that concept then, why is it so difficult to understand now? I do not believe in fairy tales, so please show me one action that Thaksin has made where his own personal enrichment hasn't been the primary motivator and final target, then I may start to. Still waiting..... think I'll make lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 So far so good each day brings us closer when Thaksin can ride into Thailand on his white horse and save it from the incompetent adminstration of his sister You believe his sister is administrating Thailand? She's not even the fifth most influential person in her family, let alone Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundman Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Please steer the discussion/debate back on topic. Other discussions, pls. find the appropriate topic, or continue by PM. The subject is the disputed oil areas, and Thaksin's visit to allegedly negotiate terms. Thanx for your co-operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I do not believe in fairy tales, so please show me one action that Thaksin has made where his own personal enrichment hasn't been the primary motivator and final target, then I may start to. Still waiting..... think I'll make lunch. The Shinawatra University? http://www.siu.ac.th/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I do not believe in fairy tales, so please show me one action that Thaksin has made where his own personal enrichment hasn't been the primary motivator and final target, then I may start to. Still waiting..... think I'll make lunch. The Shinawatra University? http://www.siu.ac.th/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I do not believe in fairy tales, so please show me one action that Thaksin has made where his own personal enrichment hasn't been the primary motivator and final target, then I may start to. Still waiting..... think I'll make lunch. The Shinawatra University? http://www.siu.ac.th/ Which of course is a totally not for profit organisation. Reading their website reveals this little gem. Executive Review Committee (ERC)1. Dr Dumrong Kasemset Chairman Chairman of Infobahn Company Ltd. 2. Prof Dr Prida Wibulswas Member Chairman of Academic Review Committee 3. Prof Dr Reon Somana Member Chairman of Audit Committee 4. Prof Dr Somchart Soponronnarit Member President, Shinawatra University 5. Ms Yingluck Shinawatra Member Chairman of the Executive Committee, SC Asset Group Hmmmmm. Anyway, that bit is off topic, and I don't want to upset Sounders, but I still stand by my assertion that if their is any involvement by Khun T in anything, it is not out of the goodness of his heart, and this visit is to discuss how they can divvy up the pie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraplung Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) So the Japanese government say one thing and this Thai government says another. Perhaps Pheu Thai could make one of those oh so popular TV comedy special effect machines available at their press conferences so we can all know when we are supposed to laugh. Edited August 17, 2011 by kraplung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emptyset Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Remember who spun the meme the red shirts would whinge after the election? Turns out the sore losers sitting in the other camp. Well at least they are only sitting, not running around shooting and burning, as the reds surely would be doing right now, were positions reversed. Would they? If the unwanted one had decided to dissolve the parliament and call for a snap election two and a half years ago all that terror during that dark period could have been avoided and no one would had to shoot these 90+ people to death in the life fire zone. But the unwanted one hesitated to let the people decide. That was all the red shirt people asked for. I just wonder why the newly formed PTP (who were actually in government after the PPP were disbanded) didn't call an election instead of going for a PM vote again. Because the acting PM was Chaovarat and isn't he the only one that could call an election? By the time they'd realized Newin was gone, it was too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Because the acting PM was Chaovarat and isn't he the only one that could call an election? By the time they'd realized Newin was gone, it was too late. So, even though the executives of the PPP had been banned, and the "Friend's of Newin" had created a separate party, the PTP continued along arrogantly as if nothing had changed. Wouldn't it have seemed reasonable for the PTP to call an election to see if the people had lost confidence in them as, it seems, the defecting MPs had? Maybe at that stage they were just too scared that they wouldn't get back into government anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJIC Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) I don't suppose he works for free but any commission he may make will be insignificant to the benefits for Thailand. Thaksin is an astute businessman and of course will build his family's wealth (why not?!) but in this case his skills are serving Thailand's best interests. All of you Thaksin bashers need to ask yourself one question and try to answer honestly and objectively: From the yellows taking over the airports to the reds in the streets, from the removal of democracy, the damaged reputation of Thailand abroad, tourists staying away and the division throughout Thai society. All because (in my opinion) one sector couldn't handle Thaksin's success and being powerful enough, would go to any length to stop him. Thaksin's govt may have had it's flaws (has any in the world not!?) but what's been done to this country in the name of 'putting it right' is insane. Are you suggesting this deal will not benefit Thailand enormously?! Are you suggesting that Thaksin won't be taking a cut? All of you Thaksin bashers need to ask yourself one question and try to answer honestly and objectively: Not better off, Much poorer! Edited August 17, 2011 by MAJIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrongthai Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Now now... they only learned those tactics by following the yellow shirts example with the airport stand off. If only they had the same resources backing them what a different outcome we might have had. Short memories folks! Remember who spun the meme the red shirts would whinge after the election? Turns out the sore losers sitting in the other camp. Well at least they are only sitting, not running around shooting and burning, as the reds surely would be doing right now, were positions reversed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Remember who spun the meme the red shirts would whinge after the election? Turns out the sore losers sitting in the other camp. Well at least they are only sitting, not running around shooting and burning, as the reds surely would be doing right now, were positions reversed. Now now... they only learned those tactics by following the yellow shirts example with the airport stand off. If only they had the same resources backing them what a different outcome we might have had. Short memories folks! Short memories indeed. Did the red shirts "foresee" what the yellow shirts would do in 2008, when the went on their forays in 2007? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Now now... they only learned those tactics by following the yellow shirts example with the airport stand off. If only they had the same resources backing them what a different outcome we might have had. Short memories folks! Remember who spun the meme the red shirts would whinge after the election? Turns out the sore losers sitting in the other camp. Well at least they are only sitting, not running around shooting and burning, as the reds surely would be doing right now, were positions reversed. Distorted memory above. The yellow occupation of the airport pales in comparison to the Red Shirt snipering, bombing, grenading, Ronin warriors, arson, etc. etc. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buchholz Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Remember who spun the meme the red shirts would whinge after the election? Turns out the sore losers sitting in the other camp. Well at least they are only sitting, not running around shooting and burning, as the reds surely would be doing right now, were positions reversed. Now now... they only learned those tactics by following the yellow shirts example with the airport stand off. If only they had the same resources backing them what a different outcome we might have had. Short memories folks! Short memories indeed. Did the red shirts "foresee" what the yellow shirts would do in 2008, when the went on their forays in 2007? Accurate memory above. The Red Shirts "started" the street violence a full year and half before the airport occupation. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Now now... they only learned those tactics by following the yellow shirts example with the airport stand off. If only they had the same resources backing them what a different outcome we might have had. Short memories folks! Remember who spun the meme the red shirts would whinge after the election? Turns out the sore losers sitting in the other camp. Well at least they are only sitting, not running around shooting and burning, as the reds surely would be doing right now, were positions reversed. Funnily that you mention that, but I seem to remember there being a lot of sitting going on at the "airport stand off" too. If only the reds had copied this tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrongthai Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 What could you possibly base this opinion on? The coup and subsequent chaos have been enormously damaging to Thailand's economy and reputation. How many opportunities for Thailand have been lost over the past 5 years while it's 'CEO' has had his energy and resources diverted. The notion that all of this has somehow benefited Thailand is utter fantasy. What happened on BKK's streets was a tragedy but to many reflected the frustration that's bound to occur when a country is repeatedly denied democracy and the people their voice. The enduring image of Thailand as a dangerous and disorderly place is still the yellows hijacking of the airports. That the system caved to their demands must be seen as leading the way for the reds protests, which I seem to remember started off peacefully. That the situation escalated to the point it did also reflects for many the lack of skill of the then PM. How close did he get to having the army take over!? Regardless of your opinion of Thaksin if you care one jot about Thailand try to accept that the people want democracy and after 5 long years have got a fairly elected leadership they believe will bring them improved prosperity and equality. I don't suppose he works for free but any commission he may make will be insignificant to the benefits for Thailand. Thaksin is an astute businessman and of course will build his family's wealth (why not?!) but in this case his skills are serving Thailand's best interests. All of you Thaksin bashers need to ask yourself one question and try to answer honestly and objectively: From the yellows taking over the airports to the reds in the streets, from the removal of democracy, the damaged reputation of Thailand abroad, tourists staying away and the division throughout Thai society. All because (in my opinion) one sector couldn't handle Thaksin's success and being powerful enough, would go to any length to stop him. Thaksin's govt may have had it's flaws (has any in the world not!?) but what's been done to this country in the name of 'putting it right' is insane. Are you suggesting this deal will not benefit Thailand enormously?! Are you suggesting that Thaksin won't be taking a cut? All of you Thaksin bashers need to ask yourself one question and try to answer honestly and objectively: Not better off, Much poorer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 ... The enduring image of Thailand as a dangerous and disorderly place is still the yellows hijacking of the airports. That the system caved to their demands must be seen as leading the way for the reds protests, which I seem to remember started off peacefully. That the situation escalated to the point it did also reflects for many the lack of skill of the then PM. How close did he get to having the army take over!? ... The enduring image of 'Bangkok Burning' (and a few townhalls) is much more enduring. Mind you that's assume the world really cares. I mean with the USA still in a bit of a crisis, Europe struggling and France/Germany economical growth having halted, booming exports from this region to those areas will soon falter as well, etc., etc. BTW the image of Thailand probably improved with the release of 'The Hangover II' :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 What happened on BKK's streets was a tragedy but to many reflected the frustration that's bound to occur when a country is repeatedly denied democracy and the people their voice. To many others, who had been here to witness the way democracy had been eroded and fundamentally undermined during Thaksin's time in power, what happened on BKK's streets was a reflection of how far he was prepared to go, how many lives he was prepared to nobly sacrifice, in order to win back power, money and face. The enduring image of Thailand as a dangerous and disorderly place is still the yellows hijacking of the airports. A sit in protest hardly compares with M79s, molotov cocktails, bombs, gas tankers and blazing buildings, when it comes to danger and disorder, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 What could you possibly base this opinion on? The coup and subsequent chaos have been enormously damaging to Thailand's economy and reputation. How many opportunities for Thailand have been lost over the past 5 years while it's 'CEO' has had his energy and resources diverted. The notion that all of this has somehow benefited Thailand is utter fantasy. What happened on BKK's streets was a tragedy but to many reflected the frustration that's bound to occur when a country is repeatedly denied democracy and the people their voice. The enduring image of Thailand as a dangerous and disorderly place is still the yellows hijacking of the airports. That the system caved to their demands must be seen as leading the way for the reds protests, which I seem to remember started off peacefully. That the situation escalated to the point it did also reflects for many the lack of skill of the then PM. How close did he get to having the army take over!? Regardless of your opinion of Thaksin if you care one jot about Thailand try to accept that the people want democracy and after 5 long years have got a fairly elected leadership they believe will bring them improved prosperity and equality. "The enduring image of Thailand as a dangerous and disorderly place is still the yellows hijacking of the airports." I would think that the enduring image of Thailand is burning buildings. The airport was shut for just over a week, pretty much like Heathrow being shut by ice a year or so ago, and the Iceland volcano that had a lot of Europe's airports shut for a week. The airport was also opened for full use less than 48 hours after the protest was called off. "seen as leading the way for the reds protests, which I seem to remember started off peacefully. " You remember correctly. It started off peacefully, besides the speeches calling people to bring bottles of petrol to burn Bangkok. Then they spread blood everywhere. Then they started their sit in at Ratchaprasong. Then they stormed government house. Then they stormed Thaicom. Then they brought their armed militia out to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 What could you possibly base this opinion on? The coup and subsequent chaos have been enormously damaging to Thailand's economy and reputation. How many opportunities for Thailand have been lost over the past 5 years while it's 'CEO' has had his energy and resources diverted. The notion that all of this has somehow benefited Thailand is utter fantasy. What happened on BKK's streets was a tragedy but to many reflected the frustration that's bound to occur when a country is repeatedly denied democracy and the people their voice. The enduring image of Thailand as a dangerous and disorderly place is still the yellows hijacking of the airports. That the system caved to their demands must be seen as leading the way for the reds protests, which I seem to remember started off peacefully. That the situation escalated to the point it did also reflects for many the lack of skill of the then PM. How close did he get to having the army take over!? Regardless of your opinion of Thaksin if you care one jot about Thailand try to accept that the people want democracy and after 5 long years have got a fairly elected leadership they believe will bring them improved prosperity and equality. As much as I hate to stifle debate......Why do we have to turn every thread into Red shirt/yellow shirt <deleted>.....all you are doing in rehashing the past and talking a load of cr*p.....this was an interesting thread dicussing the OP until....you clowns have side tracked it.....this is getting very tedious and boring.... Why dont you start your own thread on your favourite subject and you can knock yourselves, childishly debating my red shirts are better than your yellow shirts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 NATIONALSHINAWATRA GOVERNMENT Defence minister defends Thaksin's visit to Phnom Penh By The Nation Published on August 17, 2011 Defence Minister Gen Yuthasak Sasiprapa came out on Wednesday to defend the visit of ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra to Cambodia, saying Thaksin's visit is personal and did not represent the Thai government. Thaksin, brother of PM Yingluck and ex-economic adviser to Cambodian government, will visit Cambodia this Friday to meet with leaders and investors in Phnom Penh. A Pheu Thai source has claimed Thaksin will discuss an oil-and-gas concession in the Gulf of Thailand where claims overlap. Yingluck had earlier claimed her brother did not represent the Thai government. Thaksin, expected to be in Phnom Penh for two days, will take some foreign investors to meet and play golf with Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen and Defence Minister Tea Banh to make the business deal. Yutthasak claimed Thaksin's visited to Cambodia was to meet the business community, and was not involved with the Thai government. The minister said he will visit Thai-Cambodian border Friday and will stay on Thai soil to view areas under supervision of the 2nd Army Area Command. He also denied a Cambodian report that an unmanned Thai spy plane had crashed in Cambodia. The 2nd Army Area Command asserted that Thailand's armed forces do not have such aircraft and the crash site was reported to be some 20 km from border, so it was impossible that this country's aircraft would proceed that far into Cambodian airspace. -- The Nation 2011-08-17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 NATIONALSHINAWATRA GOVERNMENT Defence minister defends Thaksin's visit to Phnom Penh By The Nation Published on August 17, 2011 Defence Minister Gen Yuthasak Sasiprapa came out on Wednesday to defend the visit of ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra to Cambodia, saying Thaksin's visit is personal and did not represent the Thai government. Thaksin, brother of PM Yingluck and ex-economic adviser to Cambodian government, will visit Cambodia this Friday to meet with leaders and investors in Phnom Penh. A Pheu Thai source has claimed Thaksin will discuss an oil-and-gas concession in the Gulf of Thailand where claims overlap. Yingluck had earlier claimed her brother did not represent the Thai government. Thaksin, expected to be in Phnom Penh for two days, will take some foreign investors to meet and play golf with Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen and Defence Minister Tea Banh to make the business deal. Yutthasak claimed Thaksin's visited to Cambodia was to meet the business community, and was not involved with the Thai government. The minister said he will visit Thai-Cambodian border Friday and will stay on Thai soil to view areas under supervision of the 2nd Army Area Command. He also denied a Cambodian report that an unmanned Thai spy plane had crashed in Cambodia. The 2nd Army Area Command asserted that Thailand's armed forces do not have such aircraft and the crash site was reported to be some 20 km from border, so it was impossible that this country's aircraft would proceed that far into Cambodian airspace. -- The Nation 2011-08-17 ....how stupid do they think people are.......He doesnt need to officially represent the Thai goverment.....his sister is the F'ing Prime minister of Thailand and she takes instruction from "the dear leader". And I am real worried about the Thai air force if their planes cant fly more than 20km before falling out the sky.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginjag Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 This topic has been Hi jacked, and no ones done a thing-one or two posters have tried to get on track but it's impossible, some have claimed it for their own fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lite Beer Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 A post quoting from a highly illegal source and replies to it deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrongthai Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Fair enough and agreed that it's off topic but it got that way starting off with a series of (childish?) Thaksin bashing comments. The oil deal is purely to line Thaksin's pockets and of no benefit to Thailand...really? Who's talking cr*p?? After months of reading endless anti-Thaksin drivel started by The Nation and perpetuated by most here, today was the first time I let myself get sucked into the nonsense particularly because I thought the story could only be seen as a positive event for Thailand by any impartial observer. But you're right - it is tedious and boring reading the same tired old whinging by those incapable of seeing anything other than their own narrow-minded, negative view. What could you possibly base this opinion on? The coup and subsequent chaos have been enormously damaging to Thailand's economy and reputation. How many opportunities for Thailand have been lost over the past 5 years while it's 'CEO' has had his energy and resources diverted. The notion that all of this has somehow benefited Thailand is utter fantasy. What happened on BKK's streets was a tragedy but to many reflected the frustration that's bound to occur when a country is repeatedly denied democracy and the people their voice. The enduring image of Thailand as a dangerous and disorderly place is still the yellows hijacking of the airports. That the system caved to their demands must be seen as leading the way for the reds protests, which I seem to remember started off peacefully. That the situation escalated to the point it did also reflects for many the lack of skill of the then PM. How close did he get to having the army take over!? Regardless of your opinion of Thaksin if you care one jot about Thailand try to accept that the people want democracy and after 5 long years have got a fairly elected leadership they believe will bring them improved prosperity and equality. As much as I hate to stifle debate......Why do we have to turn every thread into Red shirt/yellow shirt <deleted>.....all you are doing in rehashing the past and talking a load of cr*p.....this was an interesting thread dicussing the OP until....you clowns have side tracked it.....this is getting very tedious and boring.... Why dont you start your own thread on your favourite subject and you can knock yourselves, childishly debating my red shirts are better than your yellow shirts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrongthai Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Thanks for this - interesting and informative! Just a few clarifying facts. PTT Plc is a publicly traded company in which the Finance Ministry holds 51% of the shares. The PTT IPO is a an area of some controversy as it sold out in some 4 minutes and only insiders got any shares. The Thai-Cambodia overlapping area is thought to have significant gas reserves based on preliminary exploration though as another said, the geology is very fractured and so far Chevron has not committed to a production schedule to develop the area they have a concession for (outside in the overlapping area). The area is largely unexplored and is just waiting for settlement of the border disputes. At this point, Thailand needs the gas much more then Cambodia who needs the money more then Thailand. Here is a small map showing the GOF and overlapping area. The Third Transmission Pipeline has a tee (hot tap) installed in anticipation of connection to the overlapping area. The setup of any company formed to exploit the gas would likely follow the setup of the Malaysia-Thailand Joint Authority which would then award contracts for exploration and operation of the oil and gas fields. MTJA If the same model is followed an jointly owned company between PTT and CNPA would build and operate a pipeline to take gas out of the overlapping area to the Third Transmission Pipeline or to Cambodia. Is there anything sinister about Thaksin bringing foreign investors to Cambodia to meet Hue Sen and discuss gas and oil exploration. Considering some of the setups of the Joint ventures that run many of the blocks in both Thailand and Malaysia, the answer is not sinister, but certainly it will be interesting to see how it all falls out. TH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Fair enough and agreed that it's off topic but it got that way starting off with a series of (childish?) Thaksin bashing comments. The oil deal is purely to line Thaksin's pockets and of no benefit to Thailand...really? Who's talking cr*p?? Another source quoted a few pages ago which is not from Thailand seems to suggest the same thing and also suggests the deal was struck in 2006....so if you would care to draw your fixation away from Thaksin and his merry little band of red shirts for a few seconds and read that, you might get another perspective. A lot of posters are suggesting Thaksin would get into a deal like this to line his pockets, so instead of going into a red shirt/yellow, Thaksin diatribe all the time, please put forward some constructive suggestions of why you think this preception of old square heads intentions is wrong, obviously commenting on the possible conflict of interest in a deal like this, seeing as his sister (or clone whichever you prefer) is the prime minister of Thailand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I do not believe in fairy tales, so please show me one action that Thaksin has made where his own personal enrichment hasn't been the primary motivator and final target, then I may start to. Still waiting..... think I'll make lunch. The Shinawatra University? http://www.siu.ac.th/ If you are not just a troll, care to explain what is so funny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Ah "Sumo's" back.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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