Moruya Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I always wondered what happened to those black shirts I always wondered what happened to all the fake reds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Pure red pork pies from the extended Shinawat family. The only story here is the fate of the bodies of Thailand's unfortunates. The lack of a paper trail on these bodies is alarming. That said.being interred at a Wat is respectful. The trouble is without a paper trail too many are already thinking the worst and that is before any red media campaign. It would be nice if a paper chain could be found as Thailand isnt the place it was before where when a big name gave an explanation it was accepted or at least moved on from. Without that paper trail or an evidential based explanation this is only going to spiral. Luckily it looks as though the authorities are aware fo this and to date everyone has been quite restrained in what they have said, whihc is posiitve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Not to worry, they put Chalerm in charge of finding out if there has been any foul play regarding this deaths... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 The trouble is without a paper trail too many are already thinking the worst and that is before any red media campaign. I'm flabbergasted that you think the red media campaign has yet to start on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechnikaIII Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Interesting that only the Nation is reporting this. If it were a story with substance it would be all over national and international press. Well, there is no oil in Thailand, and all other natural resources pillaged. There's only the sex industry which the world would rather leave in tact. So there are no arms worth twisting. I'm waiting for a Thai Polititian to deny that these are even the bodies of Thais, and not imported. I mean, .. is there evidence that any of them were smiling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scania Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Well I was thinking the same until I realised where in the world I am ;-) Two men brought in 169 bodies ... and no one asked any questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 The trouble is without a paper trail too many are already thinking the worst and that is before any red media campaign. It would be nice if a paper chain could be found as Thailand isnt the place it was before where when a big name gave an explanation it was accepted or at least moved on from. Without that paper trail or an evidential based explanation this is only going to spiral. Luckily it looks as though the authorities are aware fo this and to date everyone has been quite restrained in what they have said, whihc is posiitve It seems that the "red media campaign" started the whole thing, with RA's post on Facebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Why didn't they (Army?) have the bodies cremated? Why leave all those bodies as evidence... Maybe because they (whoever) weren't actually trying to hide it. They were just trying to bury unidentified bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 The trouble is without a paper trail too many are already thinking the worst and that is before any red media campaign. It would be nice if a paper chain could be found as Thailand isnt the place it was before where when a big name gave an explanation it was accepted or at least moved on from. Without that paper trail or an evidential based explanation this is only going to spiral. Luckily it looks as though the authorities are aware fo this and to date everyone has been quite restrained in what they have said, whihc is posiitve It seems that the "red media campaign" started the whole thing, with RA's post on Facebook. Thai people this morning had all the info from the Thai non-red media. There has been no campaign as of yet to create a meme. The red leaders have pretty much called for an investigation and refused to comment on whether they think it is reds or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 The trouble is without a paper trail too many are already thinking the worst and that is before any red media campaign. It would be nice if a paper chain could be found as Thailand isnt the place it was before where when a big name gave an explanation it was accepted or at least moved on from. Without that paper trail or an evidential based explanation this is only going to spiral. Luckily it looks as though the authorities are aware fo this and to date everyone has been quite restrained in what they have said, whihc is posiitve It seems that the "red media campaign" started the whole thing, with RA's post on Facebook. Thai people this morning had all the info from the Thai non-red media. There has been no campaign as of yet to create a meme. The red leaders have pretty much called for an investigation and refused to comment on whether they think it is reds or not. It's funny how RA had commented about it yesterday morning. https://www.facebook.com/notes/robert-amsterdam/mass-grave-of-169-bodies-from-2010-discovered-in-thailand/236295033074348 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 The trouble is without a paper trail too many are already thinking the worst and that is before any red media campaign. It would be nice if a paper chain could be found as Thailand isnt the place it was before where when a big name gave an explanation it was accepted or at least moved on from. Without that paper trail or an evidential based explanation this is only going to spiral. Luckily it looks as though the authorities are aware fo this and to date everyone has been quite restrained in what they have said, whihc is posiitve It seems that the "red media campaign" started the whole thing, with RA's post on Facebook. Exactly...it seems that the first place it appeared was in Robert Amsterdam's Facebook, and it spread through the media from there. https://www.facebook.com/notes/robert-amsterdam/mass-grave-of-169-bodies-from-2010-discovered-in-thailand/236295033074348 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 The trouble is without a paper trail too many are already thinking the worst and that is before any red media campaign. It would be nice if a paper chain could be found as Thailand isnt the place it was before where when a big name gave an explanation it was accepted or at least moved on from. Without that paper trail or an evidential based explanation this is only going to spiral. Luckily it looks as though the authorities are aware fo this and to date everyone has been quite restrained in what they have said, whihc is posiitve It seems that the "red media campaign" started the whole thing, with RA's post on Facebook. Thai people this morning had all the info from the Thai non-red media. There has been no campaign as of yet to create a meme. The red leaders have pretty much called for an investigation and refused to comment on whether they think it is reds or not. Then why is the very title of the article that lead to this thread "Thai Police Suspect They Have Found Bodies of 169 Missing Red Shirts". Isn't that a bit presumptive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Thai people this morning had all the info from the Thai non-red media. And what was the source that the Thai non-red media got it from, that made them run with the type of headline that they did? The red leaders have pretty much called for an investigation and refused to comment on whether they think it is reds or not. Of course that is what they are saying. Don't you get it? The red leaders don't need to comment. Their work has been done for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJIC Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Former deputy PM Suthep says 165 bodies in Rayong are unclaimed bodies transf. from Chumphon and not related to missing 51 red-shirts /TAN_Network Oh well problem solved, the bastion of truth has spoken Disappointed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiles Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Red shirt leaders are going to be very disappointed if the corpses turn out not to be red shirts. How would they feel if they were the corpses of yellow shirts instead? Ha! Jokes aside, How do they know the numbers even before the 'corpses' were dug out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotbeve Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 There are 5 young male (late teens to mid-20's) from our amphur still missing from the crackdown. Strangely enough, they all did not have direct or close relatives or were orphans..... And the army could tell that when they supposedly killed them? Is it more likely that these young males stayed in Bangkok after the protests, seeing as they had nothing to go back to? How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm After they've seen Paree' How ya gonna keep 'em away from Broadway Jazzin around and paintin' the town How ya gonna keep 'em away from harm, that's a mystery They'll never want to see a rake or plow And who the deuce can parleyvous a cow? How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm After they've seen Paree' Whybother, There was enough intelligence (I know!!! I'm using that term loosely...) and video-taking around to single out people especially if there were ANY I.C's involved (as seen by the authorities)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 There are 5 young male (late teens to mid-20's) from our amphur still missing from the crackdown. Strangely enough, they all did not have direct or close relatives or were orphans..... And the army could tell that when they supposedly killed them? Is it more likely that these young males stayed in Bangkok after the protests, seeing as they had nothing to go back to? Whybother, There was enough intelligence (I know!!! I'm using that term loosely...) and video-taking around to single out people especially if there were ANY I.C's involved (as seen by the authorities)... So you think the army gathered intelligence on tens of thousands of people, and then specifically picked out people who didn't have direct or close relatives where they lived? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phiphidon Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 All the corpses being male is intriguing. It was my experience watching Red Shirt rallies was they were overwhelmingly attended to by women. . Presumably armed to the teeth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJIC Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 A mass grave discovered and still no international press coverage. I smell a big Thaksin. I'd never usually ask this question as it's really not what I go looking for, but I'd be very surprised if the local media cover this one without all the usual gory details. And yet where are they? Vague details and accusations is all we have so far. You can tell he's near. Of course he is,otherwise why would his paid henchman Amsterdam break the story on Facebook? I'm sure he doesn't do anything for free! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammered Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Thai people this morning had all the info from the Thai non-red media. And what was the source that the Thai non-red media got it from, that made them run with the type of headline that they did? The red leaders have pretty much called for an investigation and refused to comment on whether they think it is reds or not. Of course that is what they are saying. Don't you get it? The red leaders don't need to comment. Their work has been done for them. The media quoted a police man Anyway we are talking about police investiagting a load of dead bodies in a mass grave that it seems cant be accounted for. It is kind of more important for it to be investighated than for a bunch of people to go off on a because Amsterdam mentioned it, it must be BS. Where did they come from? Who are they? Why is there to date no papework? There may be an explanation but one thing is for sure the longer one isnt found the dodgier this looks whether reds or not. And anyone who thinks many Thai people including non reds think that the bodies may well be reds because of what Robert Amsterdam wrote just doesnt get it. If nobody had said a thing and Abhisit announced had found them suspicions would be the same. Previous history on Thai demos over the decades causes that. And because RA said it doesnt make it right or wrong. I hope the authorities can show that there is a reasonable explanation, and I hope they are not red shirts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a51mas Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Red shirt leaders are going to be very disappointed if the corpses turn out not to be red shirts. How would they feel if they were the corpses of yellow shirts instead? Ha! Jokes aside, How do they know the numbers even before the 'corpses' were dug out? I listened to the interview with head the of the charity organization in Chumpon, because the morgue is full he obtained official permit to transferred a total of 165 unclaimed bodies (158 males & 7 females), to be stored temporarily at 3 temples in Rayong and waiting to be buried at the new cemetery called "Khao Din Cemetery" now being built and schedule to be finished sometime next year. These are victims of 1989 "Typhoon Gay" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 A quick overview of this basicly non-issue. All quotes taken from posts here except the RobertA facebook page which has a link explicitly given. Can we now go back to the favorite subject of 'Yingluck versus Thaksin', 'Japanese visa', Pheu Thai campaign promises' and possible PM Yingluck government's policies ? Original source (as quoted by Robert A.) http://www.komchadluek.net/detail/20110818/106549/อายัด169ศพวัดจ.ระยองเชื่อศพนปช..html Thursday, August 18, 2011 at 9:53am Mass Grave of 169 Bodies from 2010 Discovered in Thailand by Robert Amsterdam "Pol.Lt.Gen. Santan has gone to Rayong after the local people complained to the police that there were so many mysterious bodies buried in the area. Local people believed those bodies might be Red Shirts who disappeared last year. The police, Red Shirt leaders and Red Shirts in Rayong have gone to Wat Klong Ta Temple to meet and talk to the abbot." "The abbot states that two men who work for a charity organisation brought in and buried these bodies here in August last year- they claimed that those abandoned bodies were from Chumporn province ( the south)" http://www.facebook.com/notes/robert-amsterdam/mass-grave-of-169-bodies-from-2010-discovered-in-thailand/236295033074348 Posted Today, 06:24 Police suspect they have found bodies of missing reds "Pol Lt-General Santhan Chayanont, commander of the police bureau's Law and Case Office, led a team yesterday to inspect Wat Klong Takwa and Wat Huai Yang of the eastern seaboard's Klaeng district. The police discovered 72 bodies at the first temple and another 97 at the second. Santhan said he was acting on an order from deputy national police chief General Priewpan Damapong, who is close to the new government." Posted Today, 09:04 Authorities to dig up 169 bodies buried in 3 spots in Klaeng, Rayong; army chief refutes claims military was behind deaths Posted Today, 10:26 Don't rush to pass judgement on 169-body mass grave: Army chief "Although the temples' abbots said the bodies were undertood to be tsunami victims from Chumphon, police would carry out checks to verify on how and why the bodies had to be transported from the South for burial in the East." Posted Today, 11:17 No missing Red Shirt activists reported during Democrat government; 169 bodies could be victims of 1989 tropical storm Gay in Chumphon Posted Today, 11:21 Former deputy PM Suthep says 165 bodies in Rayong are unclaimed bodies transf. from Chumphon and not related to missing 51 red-shirts Posted Today, 12:36 Army chief advises 'don't speculate' about 169 bodies buried in Rayong Posted Today, 12:50 Police Reassures Transparency in Investigating 169 Unidentified Bodies Posted Today, 14:41 Top police and red shirts backpedal from 169 deaths "Prewpan said he had no knowledge about the mass graves until he read the newspapers this morning." (NOTE: the OP is from 06:24 with Pol.LtGen Santhan saying he acted on an order of Gen. Prewpan. Some just get up early to read their newspaper I guess. Funnily enough the RobertA facebook page from yesterday already mentioned k. Santhan investigating) "In related development, three reds leaders refused to speculate whether the bodies found were the missing red shirts." Posted Today, 14:50 UDD calls for speedy probe into 169 bodies "UDD Secretary-General and Pheu Thai party-listed MP Natthawut Saikua noted that he personally did not want to conclude too soon that the 169 bodies were people killed in the military crackdown against the UDD protest last year because it was still unclear where the bodies were taken from." "Meanwhile, UDD Acting Chairperson Thida Thavornsret refused to conclude if the bodies were UDD supporters or not but she believed that the number of people killed in the UDD protest last year should be more than 92." Posted Today, 14:54 Police probing suspicious 169 bodies in Rayong "Earlier, UDD Rayong leader Rapin Phranonsathit filed a complaint to the National Police Bureau requesting the police to investigate 65 unknown bodies buried at Huay Yang Temple in Rayong province since he believed that the bodies belonged to people missing or killed in the UDD protest last year." Posted Today, 15:27 Red-shirt Leaders Demand Speedy Probe on 169 Mysterious Bodies "Pheu Thai Party MP and core red-shirt leader Nuttawut Saikuea said red-shirt leaders are taking a great interest in the discovery of 169 unidentified bodies in Rayong Province and they are closely following the situation with help from local red-shirt members." Posted Today, 15:46 Top Democrats React to Mysterious Corpses Case "Meanwhile, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said she has not received any new information about the case from deputy police chief Police General Preowpan Damapong, who is overseeing the matter." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crushdepth Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Has anyone said "This is a typical story from the mouthpiece of the yellow shirt elite" yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 The media quoted a police man Yes they did. The policeman made a suggestion based on no evidence whatsoever, and the media ran it as their headline. The finding of the mass grave was not story enough for them? Why throw in the wild speculation? Why indeed. And anyone who thinks many Thai people including non reds think that the bodies may well be reds because of what Robert Amsterdam wrote just doesnt get it. If nobody had said a thing and Abhisit announced had found them suspicions would be the same. Previous history on Thai demos over the decades causes that. And because RA said it doesnt make it right or wrong. Completely disagree. There are all sorts of possible explanations for where these bodies have come from, and had the story simply been of unknown bodies in a mass grave, as surely it should have been, speculation would not have centred on just one possibility, as it, in the main, has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleG Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 This looks like a R. Amsterdam smoke bomb to cover his client and associates at a time they were being placed in the (brighter than usual) spotlight. They'd probably had this up their sleeve for some time, waiting for a good moment to throw it. I wonder what other misinformation "stories" they have in their box of tricks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patjem Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 The media quoted a police man Yes they did. The policeman made a suggestion based on no evidence whatsoever, and the media ran it as their headline. The finding of the mass grave was not story enough for them? Why throw in the wild speculation? Why indeed. And anyone who thinks many Thai people including non reds think that the bodies may well be reds because of what Robert Amsterdam wrote just doesnt get it. If nobody had said a thing and Abhisit announced had found them suspicions would be the same. Previous history on Thai demos over the decades causes that. And because RA said it doesnt make it right or wrong. Completely disagree. There are all sorts of possible explanations for where these bodies have come from, and had the story simply been of unknown bodies in a mass grave, as surely it should have been, speculation would not have centred on just one possibility, as it, in the main, has. What's more, the info we have so far, sketchy as it is, is that the bodies were taken to the wats in April '10, and further mention made that they were in a state bones wrapped in cloth, suggesting they were corpses of people deceased some time prior. From this information, their time of death would have been prior to the red rally last year, so unlikely connected to it. I suggest the speculation of red identity is incorrect from the information given to us. The detail of them being brought from Rayong is the point to which the questions should be aimed at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubl Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) What's more, the info we have so far, sketchy as it is, is that the bodies were taken to the wats in April '10, and further mention made that they were in a state bones wrapped in cloth, suggesting they were corpses of people deceased some time prior. From this information, their time of death would have been prior to the red rally last year, so unlikely connected to it. I suggest the speculation of red identity is incorrect from the information given to us. The detail of them being brought from Rayong is the point to which the questions should be aimed at. Minor correction, according to RobertA's facebook page from yesterday the Abbot said 'August' not 'April' last year. April would be much too early for a good, distracting story Edited August 19, 2011 by rubl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janverbeem Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 So there are actually 51 red shirts missing (??),then how they were able to find 169 body's of them? By the way,I assume that those 51 "missing" red shirts are still in jail because they haven't been bailed out by their employer yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Yai Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 The trouble is without a paper trail too many are already thinking the worst and that is before any red media campaign. It would be nice if a paper chain could be found as Thailand isnt the place it was before where when a big name gave an explanation it was accepted or at least moved on from. Without that paper trail or an evidential based explanation this is only going to spiral. Luckily it looks as though the authorities are aware fo this and to date everyone has been quite restrained in what they have said, whihc is posiitve It seems that the "red media campaign" started the whole thing, with RA's post on Facebook. Thai people this morning had all the info from the Thai non-red media. There has been no campaign as of yet to create a meme. The red leaders have pretty much called for an investigation and refused to comment on whether they think it is reds or not. Then why is the very title of the article that lead to this thread "Thai Police Suspect They Have Found Bodies of 169 Missing Red Shirts". Isn't that a bit presumptive? No doubt rapid promotion through the ranks is in line for the BIB's who suspect that they are the body's of missing Red Shirts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moruya Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Interesting that only the Nation is reporting this. If it were a story with substance it would be all over national and international press. Well, there is no oil in Thailand, and all other natural resources pillaged. There's only the sex industry which the world would rather leave in tact. So there are no arms worth twisting. I'm waiting for a Thai Polititian to deny that these are even the bodies of Thais, and not imported. I mean, .. is there evidence that any of them were smiling? There is oil in Thailand. Not enough to cover domestic consumption but enough for the likes of Chevron to be here. You may well be right that they are foreign and are assumed missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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