Farrang Farmers

[EdyP]

Hi All I am from devon uk , I farm here and am verry keen to farm + invest in Thai agriculture but that is all one can do isnt it ? invest with agri company for small return , but i want to get involved, try my ideas , increase production , I wouldlove to grow cassava , but from what i have read forigners are not allowed to go anywhere near the agri industry in thailand , but so many of you guys are , i asume its because you all have thai wives ? but i am not sure, I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this matter so i know how to proceed with my ambition , If i am mistaken and there is a loophole for farrang farmers , i am looking to grow 250 rai cassava for 2012 planting season so if anyone would like to do business together i am open to oppertunities. kindest regards all

[wolf5370]

I know someone that has 132 rai of land for sale in Lampang - used to be a petting zoo (all grass no concrete - with man-made lake around 150m or so long, several out buildings and a house in situ - pretty flat and not overgrown - few small trees planted (all look a year or less - plus the odd shade tree too). - fully walled in with full chanote nor sor 4 gor). Has gate house and gates too - direct to main road, river behind, and then mountain, no flooding (above water table with river and road at lower levels for run off also at top of road incline). I think he wants 65mil for it, or so I was told 2nd hand (MIL again) - but I could probably put you in touch if interested. Actually, MIL knows the owner (my Mrs has a 30 rai Teak plot next door - we also grow some construction quality bamboo, tamarin, neem and cassava next door - so soil seems good for cassava growing) - I have never met them personally.

Although I have waked the land, I obviosly have not checked the paperwork, so Chanote info etc is what I was told - as always, buyer beware and due dilligence.

Note: it is not me selling and I have no real interest other than MIL asked if I wanted it and when I said no, asked if I know anyone that does - its a fair sized plot for that area to be chanoted and for sale together, but Thais in that area are not wealthy enough for it. You (or anyone) may be in a good position for a deal here!

Edited August 20, 2011 by wolf5370

[IsaanAussie]

Edyp,

Check out the Thai Board of Investment on investment in Farming. www.boi.go.th

I lived in Devon near the three county border for a year or so in the early 80's, Gods own country. We have a small pig farm here and are keenly interested in integrating as many on farm activities as possible to limit external costs. We compost the wastes and produce worm casting looking to reduce our chemical fertiliser usage. Cassava has potential as feed as do sunflowers and peanuts. Lots of things of interest here apart from monocropping.

I would be interested in talking to potential investors to accelerate our plans.

Good Luck.

Isaan Aussie

[thunder30101]

Save your money and go to a country that invites, appreciates and supports foreign investment.

[wandrinstar]

Ive found farming is a peacefull life for my Friends here, but to make real money, no way. As soon as you think your there C.P. floods the market with cheap pig meat or chickens.Then its Mills wacks up Feed Costs. They are a crafy lot, they know when to flood the market from the Food Sales to the small guy.

[IsaanAussie]

Ive found farming is a peacefull life for my Friends here, but to make real money, no way. As soon as you think your there C.P. floods the market with cheap pig meat or chickens.Then its Mills wacks up Feed Costs. They are a crafy lot, they know when to flood the market from the Food Sales to the small guy.

It doesnt matter where in the world you farm, these days it depends on scale with modern agricultural methods and the small holdings farmer is up against it. In the case of CP I agree that they can manipulate the market and industry at will. But perhaps you might consider a slightly different view? Their position is very political and we all know that that needs opposition to function. I doubt that CP ever wish to squeeze "everybody" out and are unlikely to even bother with someone with a few pigs.

Isaan Aussie

[wandrinstar]

Ive found farming is a peacefull life for my Friends here, but to make real money, no way. As soon as you think your there C.P. floods the market with cheap pig meat or chickens.Then its Mills wacks up Feed Costs. They are a crafy lot, they know when to flood the market from the Food Sales to the small guy.

It doesnt matter where in the world you farm, these days it depends on scale with modern agricultural methods and the small holdings farmer is up against it. In the case of CP I agree that they can manipulate the market and industry at will. But perhaps you might consider a slightly different view? Their position is very political and we all know that that needs opposition to function. I doubt that CP ever wish to squeeze "everybody" out and are unlikely to even bother with someone with a few pigs.

Isaan Aussie

That depends on what you call a few Pigs.500 at anyone time and you are on their Radar. You get a vist, and an offer to breed for them. all gleaned from the Feed Numbers,when you become a market player . Dont play ball and issues arise, like smell, polution, generall complaints that never arose before you told them No Way, Go Away.. I refused to sign a Village Petition about the smell from a Ferangs Farm, but i know the Story.He closed down.

[jamescollister]

Hi there EdyP

Don't know how serious you are on this, but just encase you are, doing 250 rai of cassava is going to take a big chunk of change. Even if you only lease the land, it will still cost a lot.

Not being one to look the other way when there is a possibility to make some money, so here goes. Near me the Government built a large dam as part of a project to populate the border area, but no one moved in. They are still trying to sell the land at a very reasonable price. I have a Thai limited partnership rubber company and 10 rai of industrially zoned land with a small rubber processing factory on it. The license includes the buying and processing of cassava. I am sure that a competent lawyer or accountant could write you into the company in some way, as to give at least some security on your investment.

Have to say I know nothing about growing cassava, that would be all in your hands. You can you tube me, I have vids on there, of the area and my rubber.

If you are still interested PM or e mail me. [e mail is on my profile.] Jim

[mike123ca]

I'm a English teacher for the last ten years.

In the case of farming, I unfortunately have no experience.

This summer my father in law is dividing up his farmland to each of his children.

So, it looks like I will be having a future in farming even though it was never planned.

[WatersEdge]

For the 2012 growing season you have not a moment to lose.

I know a well seasoned Thai Cassava farmer

who also is a wonderful person.

Another 250 rai in your behalf is well within his capacity,

and you'd have an expert on hand from day one.

Are you willing to locate in Mae Sot, Tak province on Burma border,

or do you already have a location in mind?

I'm a lifelong farmer as well, who farmed in Thailand for quite a while, so let me say there is no way you will bring all the pieces together for 2012 growing season,

unless you have someone alongside who makes it all happen.

I can wax endlessly eloquent on the natural situation of Thailand farming.

It is naturally speaking a paradise.

Good soil, good water, 365 day growing season, good infrastructure, reasonable availability of farm materials

It is the people factor that make it near impossible.

Thailand is NOT a good place to farm,

as mentioned above in this thread, take your money somewhere else.

I'll be happy to expand on details off screen,

from both sides, how naturally wonderful and how people treacherous

If you insist on farming, then enlist the wisdom of those who already have made expensive mistakes, or who have catalogued the experience from other people's mistakes.

[thunder30101]

Year round growing conditions, lots of open land, cheap labor and abundant untapped water supplies underground. Even with the poor soil conditions from decades of neglect everything grows here without much help. But as with everything else here you are farang and you aint getting in to the club. Most people here are very xenophobic\nationalistic, throw in the high level of illiteracy amongst most of the rural areas and you are asking for trouble trying to bring about change in the system. One only has to look at the palm oil fiasco recently to understand how a few wealthy influential families control all farming production here, rice, pork, fish , sugar cane, casava, palm oil you name it and farmers are just slave laborers, there is no free market system here. Come to thailand buy a few rai (your wife that is) start a small hobby farm for yourself, maybe do some crop research for fun and relax this is what you can expect to do farming here. And dont even think about the corporation thing we have a new gov in town and depending on the economy the next couple of years things could turn very unfriendly towards falangs owning large tracts of land through proxy ownership.

[Foreverford]

Year round growing conditions, lots of open land, cheap labor and abundant untapped water supplies underground. Even with the poor soil conditions from decades of neglect everything grows here without much help. But as with everything else here you are farang and you aint getting in to the club. Most people here are very xenophobic\nationalistic, throw in the high level of illiteracy amongst most of the rural areas and you are asking for trouble trying to bring about change in the system. One only has to look at the palm oil fiasco recently to understand how a few wealthy influential families control all farming production here, rice, pork, fish , sugar cane, casava, palm oil you name it and farmers are just slave laborers, there is no free market system here. Come to thailand buy a few rai (your wife that is) start a small hobby farm for yourself, maybe do some crop research for fun and relax this is what you can expect to do farming here. And dont even think about the corporation thing we have a new gov in town and depending on the economy the next couple of years things could turn very unfriendly towards falangs owning large tracts of land through proxy ownership.

Most of what you say bears truth but maybe as Dylan said "the times are changin'".The history of the man in charge of the new party now in power shows that he attempted to open discussion for allowing massive corporate (read Saudi) investment in Thai farming industry. When and if that happens all the farmers in Thailand will be instantly rich until they crash their newly bought pick-ups while drunk on the non-stop flow of whiskey from the new (almost all gone by now) money received for selling their ancestral farms to huge Agro groups and major corporations (read Monsanto, Dupont, Coca Cola, General Mills etc etc). Foreseeing the Future For Fords Forever

Come gather 'round people

Wherever you roam

And admit that the waters

Around you have grown

And accept it that soon

You'll be drenched to the bone

If your time to you

Is worth savin'

Then you better start swimmin'

Or you'll sink like a stone

For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics

Who prophesize with your pen

And keep your eyes wide

The chance won't come again

And don't speak too soon

For the wheel's still in spin

And there's no tellin' who

That it's namin'

For the loser now

Will be later to win

For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen

Please heed the call

Don't stand in the doorway

Don't block up the hall

For he that gets hurt

Will be he who has stalled

There's a battle outside

And it is ragin'

It'll soon shake your windows

And rattle your walls

For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers

Throughout the land

And don't criticize

What you can't understand

Your sons and your daughters

Are beyond your command

Your old road is

Rapidly agin'

Please get out of the new one

If you can't lend your hand

For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn

The curse it is cast

The slow one now

Will later be fast

As the present now

Will later be past

The order is

Rapidly fadin'

And the first one now

Will later be last

For the times they are a-changin'.

[ Lyrics from: http://www.lyricsfreak.com/b/bob+dylan/the+times+they+are+a+changin_20021240.html

[thunder30101]

Yes large scale farming would benefit thailand but until they deal with the land ownership problems nobody will be interested in investing a satang here. We can see the problems of this in the national forest land encroachment problem that has come to light recently, I still havent figured out what brought this on. Not like anyone could miss all these resorts over the past few years lol. Then you have the whole infrastructure problem of thailand, how will I get my crops to market ? and what market is there availible for me to sell my crop at a fair price ? Farming equipment ? I tried to find a 3 bottom plow last year, lets just say I gave up after a while, everything here is geared to rice production and nobody is interested in anything else here in issan. Breaks my heart to see so much corn seed going to waste everywhere. Just try and explain how a root system of a plant works to a rice farmer lol. The sad fact is seeing how well the crops other than rice do here even with the archaic farming methods still used, just think what could be accomplished with the proper equipment and education, oh well not in my lifetime and def. not my money.

[IsaanAussie]

FEF,

The song is so apt. Things are changing here very quickly indeed compared to other places in the world. Remember it is only in the last 60 odd years that land ownership by individuals has been possible. Tenant farmers are the ancestors here up until a generation ago. People were educated in the fields working together in family and community groups. In the last 10 years look at the massive migration to the cities from the farms, the sudden explosion of tractors on the scene. Pickup trucks and mobile phones are things that simply were not here when I first came, now they are almost essential.

Times sure are changing, indeed faster than Ford is updating their pickup trucks. (albeit a Mazda).

IA

[EdyP]

thanks all for posting your point of views to this thread , i am taking all information on board , this website is just brilliant as are all the members , so happy i found it although not that difficult as it seems to be top of google all the time , i will update this later , with how i have got on .

[IsaanAussie]

Thunder,

I have reread your posts on this thread a number of times, your words intrigue me. I have had discussions with many people voicing the same opinions and frustrations that restrict what could be achieved here. But you know something? I am slowly changing my views. There is a natural seasonal flow to village life which is almost devoid of panic and problems. A coexistence with the land that surely is more sustainable. Just maybe the traditional Thai way isn't so bad after all? Maybe it is something we should build on, not attempt to change?

Just imagine someone could devise a way to productively use these vast tracts of Isaan paddy field all year! Wow... But for now, the soils are depleted, water remains the limitation yet I dont see any dust bowls that used to be farms.

Isaan Aussie

[Gonsalviz]

Good luck to you. If you can get the Thais to listen to you I will personally be amazed. Increase production? They know it all. Best to let them do it or you will be disgruntled at the minimum.

[IsaanAussie]

Good luck to you. If you can get the Thais to listen to you I will personally be amazed. Increase production? They know it all. Best to let them do it or you will be disgruntled at the minimum.

Thanks for the thought. I agree talk is cheap. I have found that demonstration works much better. I produce compost and worm castings and started by giving samples to villagers to let them try it out. The results impressed them and we sold all our compost last year and have forward orders for the next chili season. As important is price. I believe both things have a higher value than I can get here in the village but the point in all farming is things are only worth what your customer is prepared to pay. This year they are prepared to pay more for two reasons; firstly, they now know the stuff works, and secondly, supply is limited and we have other markets outside the village where we attract higher prices.

Isaan Aussie

[RedBullHorn]

A group of about 40 villagers came to my house a couple of days ago, i was sitting in the shop playing Code Of Duty game. The wife came in saying the village chief and lot of people are here to speak to me. Huh !?!! Me ???... I thought they're here to see you !?!!

Village chief : " Teach us how you grow your fish in concrete tanks...We already know how you do it in the earthern ponds, just want to know your way of doing it in cement tanks, why your Pla duk Oui so big and grew so fast !?!! "

Educate your community and your community help you...I'm allow and certainly most welcome to dump my piggeries waste and pump out my fish ponds water into the stream that distribute to many paddies plot owners downstream saving them thousands of THB on fertilizer

Be nice, low profile and keep a clean nose helps.

Edited August 23, 2011 by RedBullHorn

[thunder30101]

Sounds nice you are able to share something with the locals and they appreciate it. But please be careful dumping those pig wastes into open water there is enough water pollution here without adding untreated farm waste to it. Maybe talk to ia and see about composting it to kill any viruses or bacteria.

[jamescollister]

Thunder,

having read your replies over time and more recently in the general topics UK divorce, I have come to the conclusion that you have a very negative attitude to Thailand and life in general. Don't think you actually read any of the posts that you reply to. Otherwise you would have read that, some of the posters on the farming section are in fact making a go of it. One has been here for over 20 years and making a living. Or is that the problem, you hate to see others doing well and gloat over who those fail. As for your part on corporations, where did anyone mention a corporation. I take it that you are referring to me and a Limited Thai Partnership, do some reading, big difference. Then you go on about developments in National Parks, think you will find that it is mostly Thais getting thrown out.

Your contribution on the farming forum is welcome if you have something worth sharing, if I want to read uninformed comment I will read TD. Jim

[tothemark]

thanks all for posting your point of views to this thread , i am taking all information on board , this website is just brilliant as are all the members , so happy i found it although not that difficult as it seems to be top of google all the time , i will update this later , with how i have got on .

Simple rule to follow, same as gambling or share dealing, only put into the project (financially) what you can afford to lose . If its a win win situation reinvest the profit rather than risking additional equity that you cannot afford to lose. If on the other hand your 85 years of age - just go for it !

[jamescollister]

thanks all for posting your point of views to this thread , i am taking all information on board , this website is just brilliant as are all the members , so happy i found it although not that difficult as it seems to be top of google all the time , i will update this later , with how i have got on .

Simple rule to follow, same as gambling or share dealing, only put into the project (financially) what you can afford to lose . If its a win win situation reinvest the profit rather than risking additional equity that you cannot afford to lose. If on the other hand your 85 years of age - just go for it !

If I make 85 I will be blowing it on wine, women and song. The rest I would just waste. Jim

[Foreverford]

thanks all for posting your point of views to this thread , i am taking all information on board , this website is just brilliant as are all the members , so happy i found it although not that difficult as it seems to be top of google all the time , i will update this later , with how i have got on .

Simple rule to follow, same as gambling or share dealing, only put into the project (financially) what you can afford to lose . If its a win win situation reinvest the profit rather than risking additional equity that you cannot afford to lose. If on the other hand your 85 years of age - just go for it !

If I make 85 I will be blowing it on wine, women and song. The rest I would just waste. Jim

Heck my body is very close to 85 years worth of wear and tear (emphasis on the tear) so might as let my fiscal sense follow course and Jim your plan is an excellent one that I am attempting to evaluate and test. Fooling Fiddlin' Frolicking on Fords Forever

Edited August 23, 2011 by Foreverford

[IsaanAussie]

This topic is interesting. I would like to add a note on Farang Farmers themselves. The ones I have met are all involved in farming but with vastly different interests, levels of involvement and motivation. Some are full time and completely committed with others just as passionate when they can get here and planning for a full time future. Many are looking for a relaxed rural lifestyle and provide financial help to the inlaws. The point is there is no stereotypical Farang Farmer IMHO.

In my case, advise to "risk" only what you can afford to lose is a defeatist nonsense. I have never met anyone who is really trying to build a business that isnt prepared to put it all on the line if necessary. It is not about making the money last until the end, its about generating income and a new life. Its about doing something challenging and new and rewarding. Maybe I am just a crazy person, but I will retire when they put me in a box with a lily on my chest. Give up or give in? Never...

To the OP, if you want something badly enough, go get it. You will hit obstacles here as you would anywhere else. Walk around or climb over them. You would be well advised to read the stories of doom and gloom, of mistakes made and hindsights offered. But remember, there are always two sides to a story and too many people adding opinions to fill in gaps in the truth or knowledge. If I took a guess, I would say that over half of the disasters here are caused by poor decisions influenced by the smaller of a man's two heads.

Take your pick of what motivates you, the thrill of success or the fear of failure then go for it!

Isaan Aussie

[RedBullHorn]

Sounds nice you are able to share something with the locals and they appreciate it. But please be careful dumping those pig wastes into open water there is enough water pollution here without adding untreated farm waste to it. Maybe talk to ia and see about composting it to kill any viruses or bacteria.

A couple of years ago i won't even tell anyone what i use as Vitamins...I willing to share now because i'm so far ahead already that no one can catch up...As for waste treament, like you said...there's already enough pollutants in the water, We always know there's another piggery somewhere upstream ... Composting ? Wish i could make time for it...

Like what James said, you might not be reading this...I'll post it anyway

Edited August 24, 2011 by RedBullHorn

[tothemark]

This topic is interesting. I would like to add a note on Farang Farmers themselves. The ones I have met are all involved in farming but with vastly different interests, levels of involvement and motivation. Some are full time and completely committed with others just as passionate when they can get here and planning for a full time future. Many are looking for a relaxed rural lifestyle and provide financial help to the inlaws. The point is there is no stereotypical Farang Farmer IMHO.

In my case, advise to "risk" only what you can afford to lose is a defeatist nonsense. I have never met anyone who is really trying to build a business that isnt prepared to put it all on the line if necessary. It is not about making the money last until the end, its about generating income and a new life. Its about doing something challenging and new and rewarding. Maybe I am just a crazy person, but I will retire when they put me in a box with a lily on my chest. Give up or give in? Never...

To the OP, if you want something badly enough, go get it. You will hit obstacles here as you would anywhere else. Walk around or climb over them. You would be well advised to read the stories of doom and gloom, of mistakes made and hindsights offered. But remember, there are always two sides to a story and too many people adding opinions to fill in gaps in the truth or knowledge. If I took a guess, I would say that over half of the disasters here are caused by poor decisions influenced by the smaller of a man's two heads.

Take your pick of what motivates you, the thrill of success or the fear of failure then go for it!

Isaan Aussie

Got to disagree with you here IA.

Lets look at some options bearing in mind we know very little about the OP, but we can make assumptions from the failures/rip offs as well as the success stories - couldnt tell you the ratio tho..

I would be quite happy to put everything into a business if I was able to extricate myself from it in the event of failure and recover a percentage of the original investment. In Thailand that isnt the case.

"Buying" farming land is not necessarily investing in your future but instead it is an investment in your relationship with your wife and your family.

Therefore, I suppose its back to measuring your risk :

If a guy was married to a bar girl, of which I am not, should they risk all their equity in the family farm ?

Should a guy put all his money into buying So Por Kor and have a risk by not holding full title to the family farm ?

You cant say yes and yes to both those questions for instance without your buttocks twitching, surely ?

[grimleybob]

This topic is interesting. I would like to add a note on Farang Farmers themselves. The ones I have met are all involved in farming but with vastly different interests, levels of involvement and motivation. Some are full time and completely committed with others just as passionate when they can get here and planning for a full time future. Many are looking for a relaxed rural lifestyle and provide financial help to the inlaws. The point is there is no stereotypical Farang Farmer IMHO.

In my case, advise to "risk" only what you can afford to lose is a defeatist nonsense. I have never met anyone who is really trying to build a business that isnt prepared to put it all on the line if necessary. It is not about making the money last until the end, its about generating income and a new life. Its about doing something challenging and new and rewarding. Maybe I am just a crazy person, but I will retire when they put me in a box with a lily on my chest. Give up or give in? Never...

To the OP, if you want something badly enough, go get it. You will hit obstacles here as you would anywhere else. Walk around or climb over them. You would be well advised to read the stories of doom and gloom, of mistakes made and hindsights offered. But remember, there are always two sides to a story and too many people adding opinions to fill in gaps in the truth or knowledge. If I took a guess, I would say that over half of the disasters here are caused by poor decisions influenced by the smaller of a man's two heads.

Take your pick of what motivates you, the thrill of success or the fear of failure then go for it!

If you enter a relationship with all these negative thoughts you shouldn't be there in the first place.

Isaan Aussie

Got to disagree with you here IA.

Lets look at some options bearing in mind we know very little about the OP, but we can make assumptions from the failures/rip offs as well as the success stories - couldnt tell you the ratio tho..

I would be quite happy to put everything into a business if I was able to extricate myself from it in the event of failure and recover a percentage of the original investment. In Thailand that isnt the case.

"Buying" farming land is not necessarily investing in your future but instead it is an investment in your relationship with your wife and your family.

Therefore, I suppose its back to measuring your risk :

If a guy was married to a bar girl, of which I am not, should they risk all their equity in the family farm ?

Should a guy put all his money into buying So Por Kor and have a risk by not holding full title to the family farm ?

You cant say yes and yes to both those questions for instance without your buttocks twitching, surely ?

If you enter a relationship with such negativity you shouldn't be there in the first place

Edited August 24, 2011 by grimleybob

[IsaanAussie]

TTM,

My relationship with my wife is everything! That I wont risk.

The rest, well, built from the ground up, had a heap of fun and satisfaction seeing it grow. Compared with my "ultimate investment"? No buttocks puckering here purely a matter of priorities and perceptions.

From my life experience to date, I have had enough disappointments, spent enough time waiting for the right time, and enough time worrying about money and the future when the reality was it got further out of my control. Never truer words than "Up to you." After the 2008 economic melt down of my retirement funds, I decided that I would be "Mr Right Now". To hell with the naysayers and the expert economic advisors.

Isaan Aussie.

[tothemark]

Isaan Aussie

Hey guys, Im using conjecture only so that some farangs considering investing in farmland in Los, for the first time, take the time just to think about some of the pitfalls of land "ownership", none of this is directed at anyone and I am not here to question or quote on any ones personal circumstances. Nuff said.

Grimley Bob,

In parts of the western world the negativity that you refer to is substituted by prenups, pretty pointless to have that in Los when you cant own the land in the first place. But again thats conjecture