Keeping Ducks For Eggs

[kevc]

My wifes got a few ducks (well 65 precisley)which she thought would be a good idea keep her busy and have a few eggs to sell to pay for their keep, problem is they should have started to lay by now and she's only getting four eggs a day. We know you have to feed them pellet food as well as the roughage stuff she's feeding them at the moment.

Wonder if any of you guys out there could give us some pointers from your experience.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as she's starting to lose hope at the moment and she loves her ducks.

Cheers,

[jamescollister]

Good luck with the eggs, but don;t hold your breath, we had 600 in the back of the house. Down to about 400 now. The aunts idea and she paid for it all, anyway if them ducks were laying they were doing a good job of hiding the eggs, as we didn't even get enough to feed the house every day. Think the duck farm is on the way out and I get a new shed to store fertilizer. Jim

[ozzydom]

A lot depends on the breed of duck you have,Muscovies are late and poor layers ,Campbells lay fairly well as do Pekins. Most ducks take up to 6 months to come into lay whereas a chicken can start at 16 weeks.

This is not a great time for eggs as the frequent storms puts them off the lay a bit.

We run about 300 which are penned and shedded from late afternoon till mid morning after which they range on the ponds,(most lay early morning so we manage to collect most eggs)

Financially ,ducks for eggs are a losing proposition,we rear from day old on grower feed but once they go into the big yard they only get rice ram (7baht kg)and a few fish pellets,but being the vacuum cleaners they are they still eat more than they earn.

Luckily ours have a dual purpose in that they help keep the phosphate levels up in our fish ponds and saves us some of the high cost of super phosphate (up to 1200 baht 50kg bag).

[oldestswinger]

I agree with Ozzydom.

Egg production from ducks is very seasonal; not only thunderstorms, but also very hot weather will put them off.

At times like these, the cost of buying their feed does not make it economically viable. But at good egg-laying times you should get plenty.

It might seem to be a silly question, but are you sure that all your ducks are female?

[WatersEdge]

Hi kevc

Can I venture a guess even though I'm not a poultry guy,

and have never raised ducks nor eaten a duck egg?

I'll just put this up and then be still.

Are they getting enough Calcium?

I read that Chickens will not lay unless they have sufficient body reserve of Calcium to form the egg shell.

Since most of Thailand is acidic soil,

which in turn means Calcium deficient,

it seems possible that something that simple

could completely change the outcome.

I read especially Ozzydom's note about Rice Bran,

which is extremely high in Phosphorous and

therefore must be balanced out with an excess of Calcium.

I have experience with hogs on a high rice bran diet,

which developed osteoporosis and kidney stones at a young enough age

they should have been completely healthy.

When I began providing them a steady free choice supply of limestone fines,

they ate amazing amounts of it even after any initial deficiency would have been satisfied, and after I stopped feeding a large percentage of rice bran.

They just like the stuff, and showed no ill effect from too much.

They also will happily chew on concrete block fragments,

presumably for the same reason that Calcium tastes good.

I'm making a guess that providing the ducks plenty of limestone will enable them to lay.

[ozzydom]

Hi kevc

Can I venture a guess even though I'm not a poultry guy,

and have never raised ducks nor eaten a duck egg?

I'll just put this up and then be still.

Are they getting enough Calcium?

I read that Chickens will not lay unless they have sufficient body reserve of Calcium to form the egg shell.

Since most of Thailand is acidic soil,

which in turn means Calcium deficient,

it seems possible that something that simple

could completely change the outcome.

I read especially Ozzydom's note about Rice Bran,

which is extremely high in Phosphorous and

therefore must be balanced out with an excess of Calcium.

I have experience with hogs on a high rice bran diet,

which developed osteoporosis and kidney stones at a young enough age

they should have been completely healthy.

When I began providing them a steady free choice supply of limestone fines,

they ate amazing amounts of it even after any initial deficiency would have been satisfied, and after I stopped feeding a large percentage of rice bran.

They just like the stuff, and showed no ill effect from too much.

They also will happily chew on concrete block fragments,

presumably for the same reason that Calcium tastes good.

I'm making a guess that providing the ducks plenty of limestone will enable them to lay.

You are spot on re calcium in the diet,normally our ducks seem to get enough from the snails etc they eat during their free ranging but at times have had to mix supplementary calcium in the rice ram,a packet to mix with 100kg of ram is available at vet supplies for about 50 baht.

Judging by the poor shell quality of chicken eggs in Thailand the calcium problem seems widespread.

[WatersEdge]

Hi Ozzydom,

I ran the chemical equivalence figures on

Rice Bran vs. Calcium Hydroxide Ca(OH)2 (Poon Khao)

before I began feeding raw limestone.

I put 500 grams Ca(OH)2 for every 25 kg Rice Bran.

To put it in a simple ratio 1 weight Calcium Hydroxide for 50 weights Rice Bran.

That is probably a lot more than you would get from a mineral premix.

Mineral Premix also costs about B60/kg

I paid B2.50 / kg.

The body needs 5 Calcium atoms for every 3 Phosphorous atoms

in order to make bone.

An excess of P will deplete Ca in the body

It's OK to have excessive Calcium.

I then began to buy Limestone CaCO3 for

B0.20 / kg by the dumptruck load.

Not that B2.50/kg was breaking the bank,

but B0.20 is so cheap as to make cost negligible.

At that point I quit weighing it,

just dumping pails of limestone fines in the corral corner,

and letting the pigs eat what they liked when they liked it.

The only rule was that it was always to be available clean and nice.

I understand that we are talking about Ducks here,

and their ability to lay eggs.

I simply suggest that the birds be provided an excess of Calcium

as I've done with my hogs.

While we are already off the topic,

I also had a problem with Catfish not growing

even though I fed them tons of Rice Bran.

When I finally keyed onto the problem with pigs,

I also began dumping hundreds of kg Limestone into the water.

The surrounding clay shale soil has little or no calcium in it.

Wish I'd discovered all this earlier.

Fish are able to extract their mineral needs from the water.

Back to ducks and someone who knows something about them.

[ozzydom]

Hi Ozzydom,

I ran the chemical equivalence figures on

Rice Bran vs. Calcium Hydroxide Ca(OH)2 (Poon Khao)

before I began feeding raw limestone.

I put 500 grams Ca(OH)2 for every 25 kg Rice Bran.

To put it in a simple ratio 1 weight Calcium Hydroxide for 50 weights Rice Bran.

That is probably a lot more than you would get from a mineral premix.

Mineral Premix also costs about B60/kg

I paid B2.50 / kg.

The body needs 5 Calcium atoms for every 3 Phosphorous atoms

in order to make bone.

An excess of P will deplete Ca in the body

It's OK to have excessive Calcium.

I then began to buy Limestone CaCO3 for

B0.20 / kg by the dumptruck load.

Not that B2.50/kg was breaking the bank,

but B0.20 is so cheap as to make cost negligible.

At that point I quit weighing it,

just dumping pails of limestone fines in the corral corner,

and letting the pigs eat what they liked when they liked it.

The only rule was that it was always to be available clean and nice.

I understand that we are talking about Ducks here,

and their ability to lay eggs.

I simply suggest that the birds be provided an excess of Calcium

as I've done with my hogs.

While we are already off the topic,

I also had a problem with Catfish not growing

even though I fed them tons of Rice Bran.

When I finally keyed onto the problem with pigs,

I also began dumping hundreds of kg Limestone into the water.

The surrounding clay shale soil has little or no calcium in it.

Wish I'd discovered all this earlier.

Fish are able to extract their mineral needs from the water.

Back to ducks and someone who knows something about them.

Thats interesting mate, I put 50kg of Poon Khao and 50 kg of Dolomite into each 1 rai pond per month purely because I find it keeps the water clearer (and the fish seem happier and eat better.

I was unaware that it had other benefits,I will try adding Poon Khao to the rice bran at your suggested levels.

I tried sourcing limestone fines or shell grit previously without success so I put a metre of coarse fines here and there for the ducks as they need stones in their crop to aid digestion.

[kevc]

Thanks for the input guys, the wifes started feeding them pellet food with the rice ram and some other stuff which she's been told is for the shell so I take it thats calcium. If nothing else it puts a smile on her face everytime she finds one of the four eggs every morning.

I'll be sure to post and let you know when we reach a magical dozen per day.......or where you can buy cheap roast duck.

[zzaa09]

Good luck with the eggs, but don;t hold your breath, we had 600 in the back of the house. Down to about 400 now. The aunts idea and she paid for it all, anyway if them ducks were laying they were doing a good job of hiding the eggs, as we didn't even get enough to feed the house every day. Think the duck farm is on the way out and I get a new shed to store fertilizer. Jim

Ducks tend to be less domesticated than chooks....so they tend to roam a broader territory - if allowed. They lay where they happen to be. Another significant [even less understood] factor is that ducks don't lay anywhere as often as their fowl brethren will.

[WatersEdge]

Hi Gents,

Some further outside enlightenment on this topic:

Thanks kevc for opening the subject,

as I believe livestock growers will benefit

as much or more than poultry raisers.

By way of reference on Rice Bran and Limestone.

Have a look at US Patent 6616924 Stabilized Rice Bran Deer Feed Attractant and Browse Supplement.

It suggests blending Limestone with Rice Bran so that the Calcium to Phosphorous ratio is 2:1.

If you want me to email you the full pdf,

send me a PM with your email address

I have it downloaded ready to send.

Let's say they want a molar ratio

2 Ca for each 1 P.

Starting with 1.7% P on Rice Bran

This is 10.97 kg Limestone CaCO3 added to 100 kg Rice Bran

or 8.12 kg Slaked Lime Poon Khao Ca(OH)2

Therefore my earlier recollection of using

500 grams Poon Khao per 25 kg Rice Bran is wrong.

I must have used 2 kg or my calculation was wrong back then.

At any rate, you need to use a lot of Calcium material to bring Rice Bran up to productive balance.

I do understand now why my pigs laid down near the Limestone pile

every day and ate their fill.

Their bodies told them they needed a lot every day to obtain balance.

Please pardon the bad information I earlier provided.

[khaowong1]

Wow.. this is just what I was looking for.. I wanted to retire, move to Thailand and be a pig farmer. or duck farmer.

But it's good that at least there is someone on here who knows something about both activities and is willing to pass on their information.

I don't remember my grand-father doing all this kind of work to raise his pigs back when I was a kid. But, since I know squat about raising pigs, maybe he did. All I remember is slopping his hogs for him whenever I was visiting for the weekend.

Clint Eastwood maybe should have taken some notes when he was making his Oscar winning movie.

[AJARNJACK]

My experience with raising ducks for eggs came after returning to our home in the Pacific Northwest with my Thai wife. She'd been a baker in Trang and used duck eggs for baking because of the richness of the yolk. I had no experience with ducks other than hunting them and so had to research the best laying breeds. We chose Khaki-Campbell because they are the best layers. The statistics said that one hen will average about 320 eggs per year! After two years I can verify that claim because we got 1 egg almost everyday from each hen the first year and the second year has slowed to one every two days.

Concerning feed, well the guys with experience raising pigs should like this; I feed them hog feed! It's the cheapest grain mix because it's just a mix of different types of grain to keep up with the amount of food a pig eats daily and be economical too. As far as giving them enough calcium for the shell strength, I simply grind up their empty egg shells and mix it back in their feed. Never had any soft shelled eggs either.

My wife's said her family had ducks in their yard so I figured she knew about how to feed and care for them --NOT! Turns out that the ducks were wild and would hang around their home and so they'd throw out rice to keep them around and collect eggs. They enjoy lots of greens to supplement the hog feed and even like shrimp hulls.

Good luck. :jap:

[Gary A]

My wife had a couple of dozen ducks and we had many more eggs than we could use. She never sold the eggs, just gave the extra to her family members. What kind of ducks? The best description is that they were Heinz 57.

At the time she had the ducks, we had a large amount of the Golden Apple Snails. My wife would gather the snails and come home with fertilizer bags full of them. She would sit out by the ducks with a hammer and crush the snails. The ducks loved them.

She finally ran out of the big snails and her pond dried up. Someone offered her 100 baht each for the adult ducks and she sold them all. Many were quite large and a number were Muscovy.

[kevc]

Just a quick update don't know if it's just coincidence but since she started with the new mix of food we've gone from four eggs a day to (as of today)to twenty two eggs a day. Not really sure how it's happened just nice to see my wife feeling chuffed with herself.

Thank for all the input.

Cheers,

Kev.

[andycrosby]

Yep snail, prawn, and crab left overs and old egg shells work for me also. Snails are protein packed sonthe more free range they have the more insects and worms they eat the better they do. Just one more thing dont let them swim in water before 10 am or your eggs will be in the bottom of the pond