Auto..to Own Or Not To Own

[sendbaht]

I know they are nice to have, I know it can give one more freedom, but how many out there in LOS choose but can afford, not to own a car and take puplic transportation?

Yes, I understand if you live way out of town a car is a must. Just would be nice to only have a honda dream and use baht buses. I quess we ( wife and I) would have to live close to town like say CM.

For me not owning a car would give me freedow and save some needed baht also.

If we wanted to take a long weekend away we would take the taxi to the train station hop aboard and away we go. Am I nuts?

[Heng]

Definitely not a must... but for myself, just looking at the folks soaking wet or getting splashed by indifferent bikes and cars going by while waiting for buses or taxis during the not exactly infrequent rains is reason enough.

[paulfr]

I bought a car and love it. I liked getting off the street (almost killed 3 times walking in my first year) , the comfort of my own AC'd bubble, my own music playing, and that feeling of control you get when driving. Traffic is a drag but you get used to it.

Yesterday in the paper I saw you can rent a Lancer for 400B/d or 12000B/month on a 30 day lease. That is a pretty good price and may be something to consider. I rented for 3 months before I bought.

[The Coder]

Speaking of Bangkok I not only do not have a car (I could afford one), I would refuse to use a car even if someone gave me one for free or even paid me to use one. No car means much simpler life: no insurance, no drivers license, no maintenance, no filling her up, no vehicle licensing, and pocketing the otherwise high costs of buying/renting. I chose to live near the sky train so I can walk on, pay around 30 baht and I am quickly across the city to where I want in a safe, reliable, air conditioned transport. After midnight it closes, but there is no traffic that late so taxi's are very quick and cheap late night. The irony is for me there is no such thing as getting stuck in traffic in Bangkok, but other smaller cities like Chiang Mai it can be a nightmare.

[singa-traz]

It is cheaper for me to take the taxi daily to go to work than to own a car. I live 10 minutes from work (while it's not raining ...)

[Firefan]

Based on the numbers it makes little sense to own (or rent full time) a car in Thailand - I think we can all agree on that. Cheap taxis and efficient MRT/BTS says it all.

Meanwhile; the freedom and flexibility of having a car here (again) is still tempting to me....

Now when will that used BMW Z3 hit a price level below the 2M Baht so I can get cruising!?

Cheers!

[terdsak_12]

I love my car, gets me out of Bangkok most weekends, never need to get hot and sweaty, you get used to the traffic after a while, and I don't need to commute anyway. Life is bearable in this town with a motor, I wouldn't be very happy without one.

[Plus]

The costs of running a car are cheaper or on par with using public transport. It's the investment in buying/renting one that might be considered a waste of money.

[corkscrew]

I know they are nice to have, I know it can give one more freedom, but how many out there in LOS choose but can afford, not to own a car and take puplic transportation?

Yes, I understand if you live way out of town a car is a must. Just would be nice to only have a honda dream and use baht buses. I quess we ( wife and I) would have to live close to town like say CM.

For me not owning a car would give me freedow and save some needed baht also.

If we wanted to take a long weekend away we would take the taxi to the train station hop aboard and away we go. Am I nuts?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

During the first 4 years that I lived in BKK I did not own a car. Two years ago I bought one. I wish that I had done it earlier. Sure, BKK traffic is a mess...but it is sort of fun to drive in. I enjoy that excitement. You become a better driver if you have spent time driving in Bangkok. There are not many farangs in BKK who drive their own cars. Also, having a car allows you to explore more parts of the city and the country.

[Firefan]

Tax(smaller engine) about 2000B. Gov insurance 1000B Insurance(full) on a 1M Baht car (rule of thumb 4-5%): 50000B. That is already about 150B/day a day for say 2 taxis and 2 train trips PER DAY (remembering that one does probably not use transport every day but the car insurance Etc. STILL costs those days you do not drive) before we are talking repairs/service/gasoline/spare parts Etc.

Hard for me to see that cost of running the car can be cheaper than public transport and taxis (in this country).

A cheaper car will cost less in insurance but more in service/repairs...

Cheers!

[Heng]

Tax(smaller engine) about 2000B. Gov insurance 1000B Insurance(full) on a 1M Baht car (rule of thumb 4-5%): 50000B. That is already about 150B/day a day for say 2 taxis and 2 train trips PER DAY (remembering that one does probably not use transport every day but the car insurance Etc. STILL costs those days you do not drive) before we are talking repairs/service/gasoline/spare parts Etc.

Hard for me to see that cost of running the car can be cheaper than public transport and taxis (in this country).

A cheaper car will cost less in insurance but more in service/repairs...

Cheers!

It's a lot more (and don't forget to add in extras + upgrades like DVD player, sound system, car alarm, mag wheels... not to mention if you do about 40,000 km a year *the point at which most drivers replace their V or Z rated tires*... just the rubber from your tires you leave on the road is costing you about $1 a day... which is already more overhead cost than the bus crowd). So is owning a G4 vs. flying first class. It's not about economics I think, the main benefit is peace of mind, safety, and privacy. Hard to put ticket prices on those gems.

[pal78]

I didn't think I would ever want to own a car in Bangkok. Public transport is cheap, although it's not perfect, and not always comfortable.

However... after our baby was born it was a whole different story. The car has become necessary. We want our baby to be in a safety baby car seat. Although we could technically use this in Taxies it's just not practical. Most Taxies don't have seat belts in the back, and having the baby in the front with the driver isn't ideal!

When the kid gets older it might be possible to go back to public transport, but for now we are stuck with the car. But... I only ever drive when going somewhere with the wife and kid. I don't enjoy driving in bangkok at all. I do enjoy sitting on a bus, or standing on the subway or skytrain, thinking about how long the same journey would be taking if I was unlucky enough to be driving.

The only advantage to owning a car and driving yourself around is safety. (But that's only true if you have a safe car and drive safely).

As for getting out of town at the weekends, renting is a far better option. You don't have to worry about any of the issues involved in car ownership. Just go to the rental shop, pick out the car you want, and off you go.

[Firefan]

Fully agree Heng. As I mentioned above it should not be a financial consideration but rather other factors that determines the car/no-car choice.

Cheers!

Tax(smaller engine) about 2000B. Gov insurance 1000B Insurance(full) on a 1M Baht car (rule of thumb 4-5%): 50000B. That is already about 150B/day a day for say 2 taxis and 2 train trips PER DAY (remembering that one does probably not use transport every day but the car insurance Etc. STILL costs those days you do not drive) before we are talking repairs/service/gasoline/spare parts Etc.

Hard for me to see that cost of running the car can be cheaper than public transport and taxis (in this country).

A cheaper car will cost less in insurance but more in service/repairs...

Cheers!

It's a lot more (and don't forget to add in extras + upgrades like DVD player, sound system, car alarm, mag wheels... not to mention if you do about 40,000 km a year *the point at which most drivers replace their V or Z rated tires*... just the rubber from your tires you leave on the road is costing you about $1 a day... which is already more overhead cost than the bus crowd). So is owning a G4 vs. flying first class. It's not about economics I think, the main benefit is peace of mind, safety, and privacy. Hard to put ticket prices on those gems.

[Gary A]

I lived on the outskirts of Bnagkok for several years and had no choice but to have a car to go to work. Other than that there is NO way I would have a car in Bangkok. I now live up country so there is no way to do without my own transportation.

[PeaceBlondie]

I've thought of buying a cage with four wheels, but I love riding motorcycles, in spite of the risks. Cars and pickup trucks are boooooring. But I don't trust a used vehicle, and the cheapest new model I've seen that looks okay is the Nissan NV pickup for about 460,000 baht. That's a bit steep for something I don't really need.

Bangkok is insane in many ways. If you have a family, you have to get a four wheeler. But as a single man in Hua Hin or Chiang Mai, it's been optional for me.

[nonameidentified]

guess it depends on each person's situation. It's true that owning a car costs a lot. But for someone with a family and with children of less than 3 years old, it's really tough to move around without a car.

You couldn't move around easily with a stroller in public transport nor dragging a two year old in a crowded bus!

Car has it's advantage and disadvantages. No situation's perfect!

[Plus+]

I don't know how you calculated insurance costs - let's say insurance plus registration runs upto 20K - it's still only about 50 baht per day. I don't want to include it in the daily costs, though - you pay it once a year, it's not in your daily, weekly, or even monthly budget.

As for daily expences - 20 baht will buy you almost a litre of gas, which will take you almost 10 km in car. How far can you get with 20 baht on a BTS? Three stops?

Most people have to make connections when commute - bus, motorcycle, BTS etc. All these little costs add up - let's say 20 baht motorbike to BTS, 18 baht stored value ticket, 10 baht aircon bus - it's 50 baht already and it's only one way.

You can drive to the airport and back on 50 baht!

Even buses (aircon) - what's the cheapest ticket on an orange bus? 12 baht? How far can it take you - 6 km? 8km? It's comparable to gas mileage in a small car or a pickup, even in the city.

Maintanance cost nothing - toyota service with oil change is about 1000 Baht per 10000 km (diesel) - 10 satang per km.

People often say that taxis are cheap and there are lots of them. Ever wondered why? Because they make a fortune even with their "low" fares, and they pay for daily rent, too.

And time - I recently spent one hour to get to Ekkamai from The Mall Ram on a bus, and then 40 min driving from my gf's office back to our house well past Minburi.

[Heng]

As for daily expences - 20 baht will buy you almost a litre of gas, which will take you almost 10 km in car.  How far can you get with 20 baht on a BTS? Three stops?

Most people have to make connections when commute - bus, motorcycle, BTS etc. All these little costs add up - let's say 20 baht motorbike to BTS, 18 baht stored value ticket, 10 baht aircon bus - it's 50 baht already and it's only one way.

Maintanance cost nothing - toyota service with oil change is about 1000 Baht per 10000 km (diesel) - 10 satang per km.

Lump sum or not, you have to save 2,000 Baht a day to buy a 6 million Baht car you will use for 8 years. 400 Baht a day for a 1.2 million Baht car. More for those folks who believe in financing.

Most people with their own automobiles will be travelling more than if they did not have their own private transport as well. Those who only ride the bus or taxis might be less prone to suddenly taking off to Khao Kiew for golf (not much room on the bus for your golf bag either) or head down to the beach (from Bangkok) on a Saturday night. These add up too.

Maintainence certainly goes up over time. And you didn't include tires or the unexpected (the unexpected on public transport will cost you a LOT less). Wait till you get to the 100k km+ "checkups," especially if you have a car that cost 6-7,, to begin with. These are some things that will cost you more than oil:

alternator

brake rotors

calipers

sealed front bearings

shock absorbers

starter

When you're riding the public Hino, the driver won't suddenly ask for you to chip in for a tuneup.

Edited November 5, 2005 by Heng

[Firefan]

I thought I made the insurance calculation fairly clear. Rule of thumb for full insurance is 4-5% of value if with a reliable company.

If car is 1M baht it COULD be new and therefore have some warranty covering surprises for 1-2 years.

If you want full insurance to cost you only 20000 Baht inclusive all gov. fees/comp. insurance we are talking an older, used car in the 300k Baht range - and therefore you should expect more money going to repairs/service/tires and all that other stuff.

Cheers!

[RDN]

Based on the numbers it makes little sense to own (or rent full time) a car in Thailand - I think we can all agree on that....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rubbish! Come to Phuket and see how you can get around.

When I lived in Bangkok, no need for a car - plenty of taxis or BTS. But in Phuket, a car or a bike is a "must". And it only takes one rainy season to make you buy a car (or pick-up).

[Heng]

True. Those hills weren't meant for walking, riding a bike, OR riding a 10 year song taew with bald tires for that matter.

[Plus]

I'm talking about an insurance for a new car. Six million baht Benz will cost obviously more, but little Vios or City would be well in the 20,000 baht range. I think we paid 13,000 for Soluna (500k) three years ago. Insurance for Sprotrider (nearly 1mil) is about 23,000 this year. First year is usually included anyway.

Heng, I said the costs of running a car, not investing in buying one.

As for extra trips - yes, sure, there are lots of things you can do when you have a car which you couldn't do before, but the costs will not increase dramatically - that golfing trip to Kao Kiew would cost you as much as a taxi ride downtown in rush hour.

100,000 km is about 5 years of driving for most folks.

[Firefan]

Agree. I should have said "Bangkok" ofcourse. Cheers!

Based on the numbers it makes little sense to own (or rent full time) a car in Thailand - I think we can all agree on that....

Rubbish! Come to Phuket and see how you can get around.

When I lived in Bangkok, no need for a car - plenty of taxis or BTS. But in Phuket, a car or a bike is a "must". And it only takes one rainy season to make you buy a car (or pick-up).

[Firefan]

B23000 for a 1M baht car is a great deal if full insurance!

I checked on the Sun&Alliance Thai web site for a new Camry valued at 1M baht. Got about B36000 baht for full insurance/no dedutable/all the extras.

http://www.expatmotors.co.th/paperwork.htm gives some pretty good estimates in line with mine:

QUOTE

All cars must display two stickers on the windscreen, the first is the annual compulsory government insurance sticker (top), this is the minimum requirement insurance and covers basic medical expenses for injured parties, the government insurance sticker is approximately 900 Baht per year.

The other sticker is your annual tax sticker (bottom). The price of your annual tax is based on engine size, but is usually no more than 2,000 Baht for an average 1.6L-2.2L car, 3.0L-4.0L engines can be higher at around 5-6,000 Baht per year. All cars we sell come with valid tax and government insurance stickers usually for at least 6 months. We also offer a renewal service when the time arises.

Comprehensive Insurance:

Expat Motors work with Liberty Insurance to provide comprehensive coverage for all our clients, insurance is calculated on the price of your car, and is usually around 4-5% of the value of your car. The insurance we provide is fixed with the car so any driver can drive the vehicle with a valid driver's license and the owners permission, and make a claim if an accident occurs. Expat Motors provides full insurance with all the cars we sell.

UN-QUOTE

I am certainly not saying that the above costs will stop me from buying a car in the future even though I live in Bangkok. I am just questioning whether running costs - when all is included (besides the purchase price) really is the same for public transport/taxi as for own car.

Cheers!

I'm talking about an insurance for a new car. Six million baht Benz will cost obviously more, but little Vios or City would be well in the 20,000 baht range. I think we paid 13,000 for Soluna (500k) three years ago. Insurance for Sprotrider (nearly 1mil) is about 23,000 this year. First year is usually included anyway.

Heng, I said the costs of running a car, not investing in buying one.

As for extra trips - yes, sure, there are lots of things you can do when you have a car which you couldn't do before, but the costs will not increase dramatically - that golfing trip to Kao Kiew would cost you as much as a taxi ride downtown in rush hour.

100,000 km is about 5 years of driving for most folks.

Edited November 7, 2005 by Firefan

[Plus]

I'm pretty sure that we paid around 23k for first class insurance last Jan. It's Thai Viriyah insurance.

As for the costs - they aren't really fixed. Take public transport - you can get by with 5 baht buses, or you can splash on BTS for the speed, you can take microbuses, you can take motorcycles and so on.

If you drive you'll tend to drive more, just because you can. You might consider moving farther into suburbs, or you might drive to Pattaya every Sat. You might buy lots of accessories, DVD players, magnesium wheels, new tires - sky is the limit.

My original point was that driving itself doesn't cost that much even with current gas prices.

[Heng]

Heng, I said the costs of running a car, not investing in buying one.

As for extra trips - yes, sure, there are lots of things you can do when you have a car which you couldn't do before, but the costs will not increase dramatically - that golfing trip to Kao Kiew would cost you as much as a taxi ride downtown in rush hour.

100,000 km is about 5 years of driving for most folks.

It's all relative. A lot of folks look at the cost and break it down over the life of the item in question.

As for extra trips, they do increase dramatically if the choice is between a trip and no trip at all. I contend that people take fewer trips when they don't have their own transportation when compared to when they do have their own transportation.

It's 5 years according to most car manufacturers it seems, but looking at the regular customers coming through our (well, my cousin's actually) wheels/tires shop on Ramintra, it's more like 30-40,000 kms a year, and these seem to be just regular everyday folks, not all travelling salesman or racer X type kids by any means. With one change of a set of tires, we'll set you back 15,000-16,000 Baht on average. I don't know if you'd look at that as investing in tires or really a 15,000 a year (1,250 Baht a month) maintainence issue. And that's only one part of the car.

[Plus]

Perhaps people who go to tire shops drive a lot by default. Last year I drove 50km a day and it came to 25,000km a year. I don't know exactly how often do I have to change my tires but it's been two years and the change is nowhere in sight. Once in 3-4-5 years seems to be the norm.

Surely there are costs that pop up from time to time and you should be able to afford them if they come unexpectedly, never forget that.

[moonoi]

For the insurance on my current civic RX I payed 23000 baht for 1st class with Bangkok Insurance.

I'm in the process of changing my car now to Mazda 3 2.0R and have been quoted between 18000-22000 by the dealer, I just have to choose which insurance company to go with.

For running costs I personally find that the car is much cheaper than using public transport. I live in Sathorn not very close to MRT or BTS so min cost to just get to the station is 5 baht on the red bus and then a 10min walk...or 35 baht in a taxi and I haven't even really started to go where I want to. It easily costs me 100baht 1 way each trip on public transport.

The car costs me nowhere near that to run even including cost of insurance, tyres, maintenance etc etc.

[The Coder]

Just the insurance numbers I see quoted here are astonishing (higher than farangland) and WAY MORE than I spend on a year public transport! So I conclude there is absolutely no way a car is going to save money vs choosing to live along the BTS and using it to get around. I spend well under 20K baht BTS & taxi's in a year.

[Heng]

I guess one's mileage will indeed vary.