Politicisation Of Police Force Ends Hopes Of Peace: Thai Opinion

[hammered]

An accurate overview of this thread provided in the OP

"One side is defending Chalerm as a courageous politician not afraid to do the necessary dirty jobs. The other side has been left speechless by the speed at what they see as political retribution taking place."

I do think however 'political retribution' is a little strong for replacing somebody the OP states 'did not fulfil his responsibilty'

... with someone who doesn't have a much better history. (But that's OK, because it's Thaksin's relative).

I didn't realise he had a 'better history' at all.....has he done the job before?.............but it would appear by the comments of the OP that they expect Chalerm may run the show, hence the reference to political interference, I would expect he wants somebody who will carry out instructions

I guess the removal could be unfair if Wichean neither had the authority or instruction to curb corruption.....if that is the case, he can hardly blame the incoming government can he?

I always had the impression Wichean was out of his depth and maybe had never really even wanted the job. He is probably by police standards quite a nice guy too. He certainly doesnt have that scary side to him and didnt make much attempt to fight Chalerm, which he could have and has managed to upset all those who put him there by not fighting. He likely rose a long way by not upsetting anyone and not playing politics and not being put on a radar to squash, and then all of a sudden he was the only choice the anti-Thaksinistas had at that level among a Thaksin riddled force for the top job and was put in this highly political role that he wasnt comfortable with. He never really looked comfortable at all.

[OzMick]

From the OP

"Wichien did not fulfil his responsibilty"

Damapong is head of Narcotics - he says he has a list of police involved with drugs. Has he fulfilled his responsibility?

Or have I missed all those police being charged?

[JohnAllan]

Interfering in the judicial and military mechanisms is NOT a part of the democratic process in most other countries. For that matter, there aren't many countries - are there any? - where there is a military reshuffle every three years, just to give one more general in an army overrun with them, a chance at the top job. Yes, the government has overall responsibility, and might make changes for good reasons. But not Thailand, where government interference is the norm following every election, even when those elections have been at few-monthly intervals. And where that interference is purely political.

And yes, there is considerable irony in Chalerm's having been given - or demanded - the role. Does Yingluck, I wonder, even appreciate it?

Edited September 3, 2011 by JohnAllan

[JohnAllan]

Is Jatuporn seeing hidden hands, or simply the writing on the wall? Neither he, nor the rest of Pheu Thai, are such neanderthals that they can't recognise the direction in which they are taking the country, will almost certainly lead to yet another coup.

And doesn't Jatuporn and the redshirts, on current showing, make an oxymoron of the word intelligence?

[kraplung]

From the OP

"Wichien did not fulfil his responsibilty"

Damapong is head of Narcotics - he says he has a list of police involved with drugs. Has he fulfilled his responsibility?

Or have I missed all those police being charged?

Well he has asked them if they wouldn't mind stopping their drug trafficking until the next purge is over. And he has also said they will try to cut out the murdering this time. What a decent chap!

[letitbe]

So when the Dems and their BJT buddies stuff every civil service, police and military post with their friends nothing much gets said in multiple reshuffles and special reshuffles. However, when PTP come to government and move a few of these poltical appointees whole at the same time agreeing a reshuffle list with the sitting military appointees put in place by the last regime all manner of criticism breaks out. The pure lack of hypocrisy is astounding.

In Thailand for decades, whoever is in power has stuffed everything with their people. Nothing is new. To understand exactly what is happening and why there is such a rabid outcry look to that manager cartoon of the amulet the sidelined police chief is wearing. Vicious power game

Perhaps you could provide us with a few examples of the Democrats nepotism and appointing persons with no discernable qualifications to high ranking positions, because I can't recall any. Or maybe it wasn't reported. Didn't we recently have a thread where you argued that if it wasn't reported it didn't happen?

2 points:

your mask of impartiality is slipping

it's nice that you think " The pure lack of hypocrisy is astounding. "

I guess you havent been following Thai politics for the past few decades and particularly all the civil service, military and police changes made by the Dems and BJT over the last two years - thousands of them. Still if you want to live in a world where everything the dems do is right and everything PTP do is wrong I would suggest it is you who is impartial rather than me suggesting there is in fact no difference, which is also something every Thai person without exception of any political persuasion accepts to some degree or other.

Now lets see. The entire army was purged of anyone who may have links with anyone who may have links with Thaksin. And lets not forget the controversial battalion commanding position given to an officer lacking seniority who shared the same family name as the PM. The interior ministry was stuffed form top to bottom by BJT and Suthep. Of course the PM couldnt get his acting police chief to be accepted and of course Wichien lacked the seniority of another deputy when appointed but the most senior deputy happened to be the guy coming in now and of course he was overlooked because of other reasons

It is time to get real and recognize that they are the same, which is the impartial way to look at it. Otherwise you end up taking sides. My only siding is with the thai people who have the right to chose their government and they have. There are no good and bad sides. They are both grey. One thing that is currently breaking down rapidly in Thailand is the idea of a good honest leader on a white horse saving the country as all the leaders are flawed and to be honest more people see Thaksin as a great leader on a white horse than Abhisit

I am utterly amazed you sit there and think the Democrats who the Thai people reject time after time are some kind of force for good in Thailand even when the people of the country dont want them and they manage to side with any anti-democratic movement they can find. I would truly like the dems to give up these stupid links and engage fully in democracy. Then the country might have a viable alternative and those who dont like Thaksin and his mates may even have a voice that isnt destined to defeat by its linkage to old style managed democracy. The Dems have let the country down with their stupid decisions as much as any excess by Thaksin and his buddies.

How did the most senior deputy fet to be the most senior deputy - because his BIL gave him a rocket rise through the ranks, 2 promotions in one year yet - did you forget that, or don't you consider that a reasonable reason to overlook his "seniority".

I make no pretensions of impartiality - I hate everything Thaksin and the rest of his avaricious clan represent. At least in the Democrats, I could see some policies that would work for the benefit of the Thai people, given enough time in office. I have no illusions about Thaksin's funding of the Red shirts, their motivation was completely transparent behind the facade of a call for democracy, and the deaths of protesters a necessity for the denigration of the Democrats.

I consider your backing of PTP's mandate a simplistic view of democracy, which to work requires an informed populace with access to a free and critical press, and sufficient education to understand the arguments put forward by both sides. That is singularly lacking in this country, more so in Isaan.

As I said earlier, even PTP supporters consider Thaksin a thief, but believe that he is untouchable. Putting him in a cell for 10 years or so would go a long way to changing the Thai peoples views and installing something which actually approaches the democratic ideal.

I also believe Thaksin is waiting for the day that he stops being the 2nd most popular man in Thailand and becomes the most popular. Times of flux are a great opportunity for despots to seize power. It may get very ugly.

not may will get very ugly IMO Taksin is not going to give in until he has 100% power and control Weather he is allowed to get away with it is another matter which only time will tell. If he does then their will still be people who totally believe in him same as even after Mugabwie destroyed a once rich country many will still support him and never see whats happened. Weather it will be possible under a 1 party Taksin State for me and my family to continue living here time will also tell. The normal Thai people except Taksins cronies family and friends will be completely screwed and unable to do anything until the stench of total corruption forces mass uprisings such as in Libya and rest but that will almost certainly not be for 20 years or so. in meantime anyone who decided to not get what they can out of here while they can have been warned and if worst comes to worst they can probably exit with only their finances in tatters not their lives. IT will be very hard for my wife to have to live elsewhere our 2 children will find it a lot easier since they are half half and I will be sad to leave a place ive loved for 15+ years. And before anyone says well just leave as ive said at moment what money I can get out is going out and well stay until theirs a full on civil war or basic human freedoms are lost as they have been in so many 1 party and dictatorship countries.

[473geo]

We have had frequent statements on Tvisa that the police favour PTP........

Getting back to the Op how then does this appointment affect the status quo to "end hopes of peace".......a little over stated for the scaremongers perhaps

[473geo]

From the OP

"Wichien did not fulfil his responsibilty"

Damapong is head of Narcotics - he says he has a list of police involved with drugs. Has he fulfilled his responsibility?

Or have I missed all those police being charged?

It is all about timing, delivery, and reception of information.......

[Crushdepth]

We have had frequent statements on Tvisa that the police favour PTP........

Getting back to the Op how then does this appointment affect the status quo to "end hopes of peace".......a little over stated for the scaremongers perhaps

Much of the opposition to previous Shin governments arose due to concern over erosion of the checks and balances required to maintain a democratic society. PAD is presently dead and buried, but if the present government keeps stuffing relatives into senior government positions and tries to seize control of the executive and judiciary, there will be trouble. There is a very large chunk of the population that will resist Thailand being turned into a totalitarian state.

The sad thing is, If they respected the bounds of office (and restrained the corruption) they wouldn't attract this kind of opposition, and they'd have much fewer problems. Or maybe a better way to put it is that if law enforcement was more effective politicians would find it harder to abuse power and Thailand would have fewer problems.

Installing a relative as police chief just extends a giant middle finger to the justice system.

[473geo]

We have had frequent statements on Tvisa that the police favour PTP........

Getting back to the Op how then does this appointment affect the status quo to "end hopes of peace".......a little over stated for the scaremongers perhaps

Much of the opposition to previous Shin governments arose due to concern over erosion of the checks and balances required to maintain a democratic society. PAD is presently dead and buried, but if the present government keeps stuffing relatives into senior government positions and tries to seize control of the executive and judiciary, there will be trouble. There is a very large chunk of the population that will resist Thailand being turned into a totalitarian state.

The sad thing is, If they respected the bounds of office (and restrained the corruption) they wouldn't attract this kind of opposition, and they'd have much fewer problems. Or maybe a better way to put it is that if law enforcement was more effective politicians would find it harder to abuse power and Thailand would have fewer problems.

Installing a relative as police chief just extends a giant middle finger to the justice system.

Unless of course you follow the school of thought, mentioned in the OP and see "Chalerm as a courageous politician not afraid to do the necessary dirty jobs".......then the giant middle finger is is being extended to corruption

[Colin Yai]

An accurate overview of this thread provided in the OP

"One side is defending Chalerm as a courageous politician not afraid to do the necessary dirty jobs. The other side has been left speechless by the speed at what they see as political retribution taking place."

I do think however 'political retribution' is a little strong for replacing somebody the OP states 'did not fulfil his responsibilty'

... with someone who doesn't have a much better history. (But that's OK, because it's Thaksin's relative).

I didn't realise he had a 'better history' at all.....has he done the job before?.............but it would appear by the comments of the OP that they expect Chalerm may run the show, hence the reference to political interference, I would expect he wants somebody who will carry out instructions

I guess the removal could be unfair if Wichean neither had the authority or instruction to curb corruption.....if that is the case, he can hardly blame the incoming government can he?

I always had the impression Wichean was out of his depth and maybe had never really even wanted the job. He is probably by police standards quite a nice guy too. He certainly doesnt have that scary side to him and didnt make much attempt to fight Chalerm, which he could have and has managed to upset all those who put him there by not fighting. He likely rose a long way by not upsetting anyone and not playing politics and not being put on a radar to squash, and then all of a sudden he was the only choice the anti-Thaksinistas had at that level among a Thaksin riddled force for the top job and was put in this highly political role that he wasnt comfortable with. He never really looked comfortable at all.

May be Chalerm made Wichean an offer he could not refuse (ala The Godfather)!!!

[Crushdepth]

We have had frequent statements on Tvisa that the police favour PTP........

Getting back to the Op how then does this appointment affect the status quo to "end hopes of peace".......a little over stated for the scaremongers perhaps

Much of the opposition to previous Shin governments arose due to concern over erosion of the checks and balances required to maintain a democratic society. PAD is presently dead and buried, but if the present government keeps stuffing relatives into senior government positions and tries to seize control of the executive and judiciary, there will be trouble. There is a very large chunk of the population that will resist Thailand being turned into a totalitarian state.

The sad thing is, If they respected the bounds of office (and restrained the corruption) they wouldn't attract this kind of opposition, and they'd have much fewer problems. Or maybe a better way to put it is that if law enforcement was more effective politicians would find it harder to abuse power and Thailand would have fewer problems.

Installing a relative as police chief just extends a giant middle finger to the justice system.

Unless of course you follow the school of thought, mentioned in the OP and see "Chalerm as a courageous politician not afraid to do the necessary dirty jobs".......then the giant middle finger is is being extended to corruption

I think Chalerm and his family have had enough problems with the law to rule that out.

[MengWan]

"Unless of course you follow the school of thought, mentioned in the OP and see "Chalerm as a courageous politician not afraid to do the necessary dirty jobs".......then the giant middle finger is is being extended to corruption"

Wow, so nepotism is becoming a necessary job now ?

And, for the "courage", the mafia has a lot of it !

Chalerm has failed the test long ago, by protecting his son(s) from the Justice and ensuring

that they don't get punished for murder ...

He is personified corruption !

[phiphidon]

Abhisit is quoted today saying that the democrats never threw the system into chaos trying to give jobs to someone they liked. However he, as PM of the last coalition government,certainly did.

Remember Mongkol? The cabinet endorsed his new position in an interior ministry reshuffle among whose key positions, the Permanent Secretaries post, was handed to Mongkol Surasatja having only a few months ago being the Director General of the Provincial Administration department (a post incidentally he was promoted to after the end of the red shirtrally )

At the same time the cabinet also approved 300 new posts at the DSI.

Justice Minister Pirapan Salirathavibhaga who supervises the DSI said the new positions were not meant to discriminate against any official but aimed to make everyone "a true DSI official". "Those who don't belong here will be volunteering to leave" he said without explaining.

http://www.nationmul...r-30138032.html

Meanwhile back to Mongkol, when questions were raised about Mongkols seniority (he was 54th in terms of time served) Abhisit blames it on Suthep,

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, avoiding direct questions about the reshuffle, said Deputy Prime Minister Suthep had screenedthe shortlist before the official appointments were announced

"Suthep said there should not be any problems with them," he added.

Asked whether yesterday's reshuffle was the worst in the ministry's history, Abhisit laughed, before saying: "There arecriticisms, which I take and express concerns over. I think the ministry will take them into consideration."

http://www.nationmul...t-30137028.html

The proverbial hits the fan and the DSI investigate Mongkol and a dodgy computer leasing deal. Under pressure, Mongkol decides not to accept (!) the post and said he was ready to be DG again.

My link

In the meantime the guy displaced by Mongkols "promotion" to DG, Wongsak Sawasdipanich finally got his job back in March of this year - well actually he didn't. Abhisit told the Interior Ministry to give him his job back but they ignored him.

My link

Eventually Mr Wongsak was reinstated on the 10th June 2011. Mr Abhisit, wouldn't get involved in political interference of promotions, My A***!

[473geo]

"Unless of course you follow the school of thought, mentioned in the OP and see "Chalerm as a courageous politician not afraid to do the necessary dirty jobs".......then the giant middle finger is is being extended to corruption"

Wow, so nepotism is becoming a necessary job now ?

And, for the "courage", the mafia has a lot of it !

Chalerm has failed the test long ago, by protecting his son(s) from the Justice and ensuring

that they don't get punished for murder ...

He is personified corruption !

Or a normal father....

[Macmundi]

What comes around goes around. It's not wrong for the newbies to shoo away the oldies, they are all controlled politically anyway. Sooner or later these newbies will get shooed away too. They should one day learn to teach their children to pick a more honorable career.

[hammered]

Is Jatuporn seeing hidden hands, or simply the writing on the wall? Neither he, nor the rest of Pheu Thai, are such neanderthals that they can't recognise the direction in which they are taking the country, will almost certainly lead to yet another coup.

And doesn't Jatuporn and the redshirts, on current showing, make an oxymoron of the word intelligence?

Jatuporn knows pretty much that a coup would be an act of utter desperation, would wreck Thailand internationally and it would be very tenuous that it would succeed and may result in utter chaos. He is likely gambling that nobody would pull or be able to pull a coup off

[Crushdepth]

Is Jatuporn seeing hidden hands, or simply the writing on the wall? Neither he, nor the rest of Pheu Thai, are such neanderthals that they can't recognise the direction in which they are taking the country, will almost certainly lead to yet another coup.

And doesn't Jatuporn and the redshirts, on current showing, make an oxymoron of the word intelligence?

Jatuporn knows pretty much that a coup would be an act of utter desperation, would wreck Thailand internationally and it would be very tenuous that it would succeed and may result in utter chaos. He is likely gambling that nobody would pull or be able to pull a coup off

The army certainly knows how to pull off a coup, the issue is what circumstances would lead them to do that? It was not always so, but I do think they now see a coup as the measure of last resort. It would only be done if they thought the disease was a lot worse than the cure, and if there was sufficient public support.

What will happen is largely up to Thaksin Inc. If they respect the bounds of office they'll be left alone. But if they try to hijack the other arms of government and turn Thailand into a totalitarian state (which would definitely cause a resurgence in anti-government sentiment) all bets are off.

Personally, I don't think they will be able to restrain themselves.