Adoption Of My Thai Wifes Two Children

[worriedgary]

Hello folks

I am hoping to return to the uk with my wife and 2 children, who i have lived with in thailand for the past 3 years.

Where do i start?

1. What papers do i need for the uk gov to recognise i have adopted the children?

2. where do i have to go to get adoption papers.

3. How difficult is it to obtain a settlement visa?

Any info will e gratefully recieved

[InterestedObserver]

Where is the father and is he willing to give up the children, or does your wife have sole custody awarded by the Thai courts? Do the children each have a passport?

Edited September 18, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[worriedgary]

Where is the father and is he willing to give up the children, or does your wife have sole custody awarded by the Thai courts? Do the children each have a passport?

The father lives in our village still. Yes he has no objections No they have never been to court, have never had a marriage certificate. But the children have been regiserd in his name. No they dont have a passport yet, we are waiting till we can change there names.

[7by7]

Inter country adoption is a long and complex matter. You would not just have to satisfy the Thai requirements, but the UK ones as well.

See Child Adoption for Thailand and Intercountry adoption for the UK.

I'm not sure if adoption in Thailand is recognised under the Hague Adoption Convention as Thailand is not a full member of the Hague Conference on Private International Law. If it isn't then adoption by you would not make the children British citizens, and they would still need the appropriate visa to visit or live in the UK.

However, adoption by you is NOT required for your step-children to settle in the UK with you and their mother.

Have a read of the following:-

Maintenance and accommodation

Settlement, Spouses

Settlement, Children, paying particular attention to SET7.8 What is sole responsibility? (It is your wife who needs to show that she has been solely responsible for the children, not you.)

My advice is to obtain settlement visas for them all, and look into adoption, should you wish, once they are all in the UK.

Edited September 18, 2011 by 7by7
Addendum and clarification.

[7by7]

Forgot to mention:-

The father lives in our village still. Yes he has no objections No they have never been to court, have never had a marriage certificate. But the children have been regiserd in his name.

Your wife will need to obtain sole custody. If the father is willing and cooperative obtaining this is a simple matter of them both going to the ampur and signing a few forms.

[kunash]

Where is the father and is he willing to give up the children, or does your wife have sole custody awarded by the Thai courts? Do the children each have a passport?

The father lives in our village still. Yes he has no objections No they have never been to court, have never had a marriage certificate. But the children have been regiserd in his name. No they dont have a passport yet, we are waiting till we can change there names.

what you definately need to find out is, who, in the eyes of the law, has legal custody of the children. you say the mother and father were never married, so they obviously cannot and havent divorced. it doesnt matter they have his name. if there is joint custody your wife will need sole legal custody obtained from a court, before applying for any visa. this takes 1 month to obtain ( can be done in 1 day as long as the father is there - but takes 1 month to be issued - i know this as i had to go through this recently ). as long as the father is cooperative then nothing to worry about. maybe a good idea to employ the services of a solicitor.

and the other thing to worry about is sole responsibility. as long as the kids live with the mother in thailand, and she looks after them, on a day to day basis, emotionally and financially (with your help) then that is ok.

[worriedgary]

Hi guys

thank you for your information and time!

i feel so much happier now as i have some direction.

One other thing? do i have to obtain a settlement visa for my wife and kids individually, or is it issued as a family visa?

Thanks once again.

Regards Gary

[7by7]

They each have to make, and pay for, an individual application.

Your wife will need a certificate from an approved provider to show that she has a minimum standard in English speaking and listening and she will need a TB certificate.

The children wont need English certificates, but if they are 11 or older they will need TB certificates.

See How to apply and the appropriate links from there.

[SantiSuk]

I think that 7by7s advice about waiting to adopt once you are in the UK is good advice. I have found it to be extremely difficult for my Thai wife and I to adopt a 12 year old from within the Thai family (my wife's niece who was unofficially adopted by her parents and who has been living with us for a year) while I am living here in Thailand but still UK resident and UK domiciled. These difficulties are notwithstanding that I do not even want to repatriate the child back to the UK. I seem to be caught between two stools where my local authority back in the UK does not acknowledge its responsibility to assess me (because it is not practical for them to run the assessments over a period of time when I am only back in the UK 2 weeks out of every 2 months) and I cannot get the adoption ok'd in Thailand without either that 'blessing' from my UK local authority or a relevantly experienced UK lawyers certificate that I am non-domiciled in the UK (because I am still domiciled in the UK!).

I suspect that if you are intending to return to the UK you would be deemed to be domiciled in the UK no matter what your recent residing pattern has been here (but only a lawyer could advise). Therefore I would expect you to have no difficulty in persuading your local authority to assess you for adoption once you are back in the UK, but I would expect you to run into the same difficulty I face if you currently spend very little time in the UK but want to get a crack on now with the adoption process before returning. It seems to me that it is much easier for a UK couple to come out to Thailand and rip off a Thai child back to the UK than it is for a UK male to be an adoptive father within Thailand, not removing the child from its family and cultural environment - an absolutely crazy position that I intend to exploit in the UK media if my current headwinds continue much longer.

[For others looking who have some knowledge on the process and who might be thinking that I have my legal terms garbled please note that the critical term that now determines whether a UK local authority can assess an inter-country adoption is whether you are 'UK domiciled' or not - it used to be until very recently whether you are 'habitually resident' in the UK or not]

Your immediate next steps should be to firstly read all the literature and websites of the UK Inter-Country Adoption Centre's website (someone above has given links), secondly call up the inter-country adoption officer at your local authority back in the UK (google for the authoritiy's social services department) and discuss your specific circumstances and thirdly go with your wife to discuss your case at the National Thai adoption authority - Child Adoption Center of the Department of Social Development and Welfare of the Ministry of Social Development and Human Security of Thailand. Contact details are:

Child Adoption Centre Thailand

255 Ratchatawi Road

Phayathai

Bangkok 10400

Tel 023547500

[email protected]

The British Embassy has a staff member who can also give helpful advice on intercountry adoption.

By adopting once you are in the UK you will be present there for long enough periods for it to be practical for your local authority to do the necessary assessments. Note though that I was warned that even if they (Leeds City Council) did accept me as a case they could deal with, that It might take up to 2 years for them to complete the process. So far I have spent 6 months and am not even off first base. Getting a relevantly qualified UK lawyer (the UK Inter-Country Adoption Centre gives a list) to even focus on my case has been a major hurdle - always too busy to even sign me up as a client.

Edited September 19, 2011 by SantiSuk

[7by7]

Very informative. Slightly different circumstances, though, as the child in question is neither yours nor your wife's. Good luck with it.

In the OP's, mine and many others circumstances I have to wonder if it is worth all the legal hassle to adopt a step-child.

My step-daughter* has lived in the UK with me, and her mother of course, since she was 9 (she'll be 21 next month). Her natural father abandoned her and her mother when she was 5. As far as she, her mother and I am concerned, I'm her Dad.

Does a social services sanctioned piece of paper make any difference to that?

*I have to stop and think when writing about her in this sort of context as I usually simply refer to her as 'my daughter.'