Red-Shirt Villages' Nationwide 'Federation'

[phetaroi]

Can you imagine you have to live in such a village?

Things in Thailand are getting more and more like Germany under Hitler and The Soviet Union under Stalin.

It's 'Heil Thaksin' or else.

hbullinger, perchance, are you an American? Your gift for hyperbole is astonishing.

First, thanks for insulting Americans.

Yes, I think comparing the "red shirt village" concept to Nazi Germany is a bit of hyperbole. But I can't think of another thing happening in Thailand since I started visiting there in the mid-1980s, and including living there for a while, that I find more disturbing than the "red shirt village" concept. Thai's sometimes brag that "Thai land" means "free land". A group of people declaring their village or province a red shirt zone (or any other political party zone) doesn't seem very "free" to me.

[Tanaka]

Did anyone expect anything else from the Megalomaniac?

Sadly Thailand is about to enter one of it's darkest phases. My wife, son and I have a ticket booked to England next Aug if things degenerate too much we'll be going sooner.

I thought that 'fight against dictatorship' and 'bring Thaksin back' is a contradiction. Should that not be 'fight against dictatorship' and 'not bring Thaksin back'???????

There is something very sinister going on here and I too dread to think of the future for the poor Thai folks. I wish they would open their eyes.

It doesn^t help to open your eyes if you cannot see or cannot understand what you see. And you are absolutely right about the contradiction. So maybe they will eventually see. when it is too late.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Before you laugh it off, take a look at history. Communes? Red guards, brown guards who have no official powers but have appointed themselves as 'protectors' of the government? You don't have look all the way in Europe, how do you think the Khmer Rouge started out? Shit starts somewhere and if you think the examples can't happen here, you're sorely mistaken. If no one clamps down on these thugs, it WILL happen. When the Army stages their next coup, they better do something about these Red Shirts.

/quote]

What I really found amusing was the "understated" description of "left leaning". This, for the raving red loonies that they are. What they don't realise is that "their lot" under Abhisit would have been far better than it's going to be now!!!! I hope they learn and come to realise the "error of their (ignorant and uneducated) mistakes", and soon!!!!.

Edited October 6, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[SICHONSTEVE]

I made no claim, merely explained that it was obvious what was meant

It wasn't obvious to me whether he had inadvertently got it wrong otherwise I wouldn't have queried it, would I!!!.

[h90]

These Red communes should be nipped in the bud before it's too late. When the coup comes(and it will with how PTP are running things), the Army needs to put a stop to this.

Actually the PTP is making a good promotion for a coup. It really looks like the better option.

[JAG]

So, I am the only person here who has a problem with comparing red-shirts or any large group of Thai people with Nazi Germany and Herr Hitler? Really? Do you really think the comparison is valid? Do you not remember WWII, and the blitzkrieg? The horror of the Holocaust? You are comparing Thai people to that? Or Stalin, and his slaughter of millions? Please, this is ridiculous banter and I will point it out any time I see it, thank you very much. Thai people really do not have "ideology", which is why they will never be goose-stepping through the streets of Beijing or rounding up people for the gas chambers. If it is true, that so many people on this site think like this, then I ask, why the heck are you living amongst such supposedly evil people? If true, that so many expats here think like this, then perhaps we are more of a threat to Thailand's future than some left leaning Thai party. Give me a break!!

No mate, you're not the only one. I've challenged such posts several times. Its pure hyperbole, or to use a simpler term, absolute bullsh*t!

Sometimes I think there is a competition running to post the most outrageous comments possible!

[gohmer]

Besides that, I have found that it is almost unanimous that Europeans dislike Thaksin and the red-shirts, where the vast majority of Americans have supported the red-shirts (at least their cause more than Thaksin himself),

(at least their cause more than Thaksin himself),

If by their cause you mean helping the poor, you should know that the red shirt movement purely exists as a vehicle to aid Thaksin. Not supporting the red shirts does not equate to not supporting the poor, it equates to not supporting Thaksin. If you support the red shirts, you are supporting Thaksin, whether that be your intention or not.

I've heard this same sound byte a million times. I think everyone who want to talk about the subject should understand history and democracy first. Virtually all political movements in history have had the money side and the people side - one uses the other. This is pretty much the case in all countries throughout history. The reality is that regardless of what Thaksin did (or not) the people in Thailand were allowed to vote. The fact that they were allowed - by the military backed government - to freely vote is something they would not have had without protest. Protests costs money. If Thaksin gets something out of this, that is up to the majority rule to decide, not the minority elite. If they make a mistake, it is there free right to make that mistake. Preventing them from the option of making the mistake of liking, or supporting, the wrong guy is a form of dictatorship. That is a worse evil than the corruption of Thaksin, and pretty much every other top leader in Thailand's history. To say that Thaksin is using the red-shirts for his personal gain and not saying the red-shirts are using him for their gain is pure ignorance.

The red-shirts voted, the mainstream Thais voted, the elected is the elected, good, bad, or indifferent. The most important issue is the vote, not Thaksin, and anyone who stays focus on the one man is totally missing the point. People around the world are fighting for freedom. They are dying by the score. If Thailand manages to transition into a non-military ruled country with the people having rights, and the only cost is that one bad guy gets something he doesn't deserve, well, that's a pretty good deal for the voters who voted in July compared to all the people having to die to get the same thing in other countries.

Stop focusing on Thaksin, he's one guy, the people get to vote again in a few years and who's to say Abhisit won't win, or some other yellow-shirt. If you are from any country in North American or Europe I am sure you have corrupt politicians that make Thaksin look like an amateur.

A case in point. Greece is part of the EU, it is ranked the most corrupt country in Europe. If the people rise up and want a new government, who is going to fund them? Every politician in the country is corrupt, the society is corrupt. If the people want a dramatic change, they will have to hook up with some corrupt person who will probably get something. In the case of Thailand, the end justifies the means pure and simple.

Edited October 6, 2011 by gohmer

[h90]

Can you imagine you have to live in such a village?

Things in Thailand are getting more and more like Germany under Hitler and The Soviet Union under Stalin.

It's 'Heil Thaksin' or else.

hbullinger, perchance, are you an American? Your gift for hyperbole is astonishing.

This entire forum is nothing but hyperbole, it is astonishing, and most of the members are from Europe. Besides that, I have found that it is almost unanimous that Europeans dislike Thaksin and the red-shirts, where the vast majority of Americans have supported the red-shirts (at least their cause more than Thaksin himself), so if you go with the statistical odds, it would be more likely a European making this comment than an American. Another fact pointing in that direction is that more Europeans suffered under Stalin and Hitler than did Americans and would probably have much more reason to use them in a statement than Americans.

That is nonsense: I know a lot British and Germans with their wifes from Isaan who are true Thaksin believer, just because they stay in Isaan and hear day and night the good things Thaksin did.

While for example PAD-USA is very strong and strongly finance the PAD, so there must be some Anti-Thaksin Americans as well.

I think Nationality doesn't matter. Region and education. Married with a farmers lady from the East increases the Pro Thaksin propaganda, while married with a Dr. from Bangkok will bring the Farang most probably more to the PAD.

Beside that this pseudo communism isn't that popular in USA.

[rixalex]

The fact that they were allowed - by the military backed government - to freely vote is something they would not have had without protest.

Which protests do you refer to? The protests of 2009 and 2010?

Protests costs money.

Doesn't cost anything for people to congregate, if the reason for them being there is not financial. Perhaps the problem with the red shirt protests was that yes they believed in the cause, but no, they wouldn't have been there if they weren't being compensated in some way.

Another thing that costs money, besides paying people to attend, is the propaganda.

To say that Thaksin is using the red-shirts for his personal gain and not saying the red-shirts are using him for their gain is pure ignorance.

If you think that the red shirts will gain from their support of Thaksin, you obviously haven't been paying close attention over the last ten years as to what he has actually delivered and achieved for them.

If you are from any country in North American or Europe I am sure you have corrupt politicians that make Thaksin look like an amateur.

Nope, he pretty much leads the way.

[h90]

Besides that, I have found that it is almost unanimous that Europeans dislike Thaksin and the red-shirts, where the vast majority of Americans have supported the red-shirts (at least their cause more than Thaksin himself),

(at least their cause more than Thaksin himself),

If by their cause you mean helping the poor, you should know that the red shirt movement purely exists as a vehicle to aid Thaksin. Not supporting the red shirts does not equate to not supporting the poor, it equates to not supporting Thaksin. If you support the red shirts, you are supporting Thaksin, whether that be your intention or not.

I've heard this same sound byte a million times. I think everyone who want to talk about the subject should understand history and democracy first. Virtually all political movements in history have had the money side and the people side - one uses the other. This is pretty much the case in all countries throughout history. The reality is that regardless of what Thaksin did (or not) the people in Thailand were allowed to vote. The fact that they were allowed - by the military backed government - to freely vote is something they would not have had without protest. Protests costs money. If Thaksin gets something out of this, that is up to the majority rule to decide, not the minority elite. If they make a mistake, it is there free right to make that mistake. Preventing them from the option of making the mistake of liking, or supporting, the wrong guy is a form of dictatorship. That is a worse evil than the corruption of Thaksin, and pretty much every other top leader in Thailand's history. To say that Thaksin is using the red-shirts for his personal gain and not saying the red-shirts are using him for their gain is pure ignorance.

The red-shirts voted, the mainstream Thais voted, the elected is the elected, good, bad, or indifferent. The most important issue is the vote, not Thaksin, and anyone who stays focus on the one man is totally missing the point. People around the world are fighting for freedom. They are dying by the score. If Thailand manages to transition into a non-military ruled country with the people having rights, and the only cost is that one bad guy gets something he doesn't deserve, well, that's a pretty good deal for the voters who voted in July compared to all the people having to die to get the same thing in other countries.

Stop focusing on Thaksin, he's one guy, the people get to vote again in a few years and who's to say Abhisit won't win, or some other yellow-shirt. If you are from any country in North American or Europe I am sure you have corrupt politicians that make Thaksin look like an amateur.

A case in point. Greece is part of the EU, it is ranked the most corrupt country in Europe. If the people rise up and want a new government, who is going to fund them? Every politician in the country is corrupt, the society is corrupt. If the people want a dramatic change, they will have to hook up with some corrupt person who will probably get something. In the case of Thailand, the end justifies the means pure and simple.

There were no protests when there was the military appointed government. So get the facts right.

Than the PPP was elected and the government collapsed basically because of incompetence and corruption so a new government was formed with the Democrats which let vote a few month before the date which is determined by the constitution and the Democrats lost (38 to 44 %) mostly because they were unable to do anything and people were bored of them.

Where was there any fighting for freedom?? We had the yellows demonstrating against the elected government and the red demonstrating against the elected government. Where was the fighting for freedom?

[letitbe]

Hasn't the Dark Lord previously claimed "not to know" the Red-Shirts ?

And don't the Red-Villages have full confidence, in the ability of 'their' government under 'his' family's rule, to bring him back ?

Lastly, how does this aid national-reconciliation ?

give up i have Taksin will come back poor will get @#$%$# and life will continue while he tries to make a 1 party state. To be honest they deserve what they get and will IMO never learn. IF their lives get worse as they probably will then they will say let taksin take over he will make everyone rich

[h90]

Hasn't the Dark Lord previously claimed "not to know" the Red-Shirts ?

And don't the Red-Villages have full confidence, in the ability of 'their' government under 'his' family's rule, to bring him back ?

Lastly, how does this aid national-reconciliation ?

give up i have Taksin will come back poor will get @#$%$# and life will continue while he tries to make a 1 party state. To be honest they deserve what they get and will IMO never learn. IF their lives get worse as they probably will then they will say let taksin take over he will make everyone rich

yes 1 party state is nice, but really need some good tricks to get that and still look democratic. All-party-government would be a nice way to achieve that.

For example North Korea has a coalition government and still it looks like a 1 party state.

[volk666]

Do Bangkokians need to wear a yellow patch on their sleeves when entering Federation of Red Villages?

[Buchholz]

It is obvious that he mans exactly what he says "expat Thais"; how can you possibly interpret that to mean Westerners living in Thailand?

Do you or he have sources to corroborate this claim?

I made no claim, merely explained that it was obvious what was meant

Fair enough.

Unfortunately, Babcock has not responded to validate his doubtful claim.

.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

where the vast majority of Americans have supported the red-shirts

Speaking of doubtful claims in desperate need of corroboration/validation with sources, here's another.

[serenitynow]

Thaksin, Jatuporn & Co. Ltd. are digging the earth so deep in order to lay a strong foundation so that the edifice of the next Thaksin regime cannot be destroyed. Thaksin's red tentacles will soon reach every part of Thailand from Bangkok to Chiang Rai to the border with Cambodia. If Thaksin was not so blinded by power, money, and his belief that he is Thailand's Mandela and Ghandi, and he was to study history, he would see that regimes, which are not founded in morality, ethics, and a vision of the well-being of the whole nation do not last long. As they fall apart, tyranny and dictatorship set in, which hasten the dictator's downfall and ignominy. He will create one huge mess before he and his red tentacles are finally shipped off to Dubai, but the Thais will learn from the experience and the country will leap forwards in a positive direction. Since this scenario has repeated itself countless times in history, it's a pity that we can't just skip the suffering part.

Good analysis, maoist roadmap.

Yes, but what they are doing is undermining the soverignty of the Thai state. i just can't see that standing for long. It's like they're begging for a military response.

[serenitynow]

So, I am the only person here who has a problem with comparing red-shirts or any large group of Thai people with Nazi Germany and Herr Hitler? Really? Do you really think the comparison is valid? Do you not remember WWII, and the blitzkrieg? The horror of the Holocaust? You are comparing Thai people to that? Or Stalin, and his slaughter of millions? Please, this is ridiculous banter and I will point it out any time I see it, thank you very much. Thai people really do not have "ideology", which is why they will never be goose-stepping through the streets of Beijing or rounding up people for the gas chambers. If it is true, that so many people on this site think like this, then I ask, why the heck are you living amongst such supposedly evil people? If true, that so many expats here think like this, then perhaps we are more of a threat to Thailand's future than some left leaning Thai party. Give me a break!!

No mate, you're not the only one. I've challenged such posts several times. Its pure hyperbole, or to use a simpler term, absolute bullsh*t!

Sometimes I think there is a competition running to post the most outrageous comments possible!

It's not that much hyperbole if you think in terms of 1930's germany rather than the 1940's.

[whybother]

...

The reality is that regardless of what Thaksin did (or not) the people in Thailand were allowed to vote. The fact that they were allowed - by the military backed government - to freely vote is something they would not have had without protest.

...

What did the protests gain them? Dead and injured people.

When was there any suggestion that the people wouldn't have got to vote at the time prescribed by the constitution?

The problem is, they didn't want to wait. They didn't want to be democratic. They just wanted power. Now!

[ozzieman05]

The red shirts should be congratulated on their fight against dictatorship... and corruption..... and drugs.... and gambling....

Interesting as all I see is that they are fighting for DICTATORSHIP no against it

Sooner or later we all must pay the Ferry Man

[metisdead]

Removed a post that questioned whether others were paid to post. If you have any actual evidence please forward it to support. If it's just a lame debating tactic, further references like that may find you without posting rights.

[gohmer]

Can you imagine you have to live in such a village?

Things in Thailand are getting more and more like Germany under Hitler and The Soviet Union under Stalin.

It's 'Heil Thaksin' or else.

hbullinger, perchance, are you an American? Your gift for hyperbole is astonishing.

This entire forum is nothing but hyperbole, it is astonishing, and most of the members are from Europe. Besides that, I have found that it is almost unanimous that Europeans dislike Thaksin and the red-shirts, where the vast majority of Americans have supported the red-shirts (at least their cause more than Thaksin himself), so if you go with the statistical odds, it would be more likely a European making this comment than an American. Another fact pointing in that direction is that more Europeans suffered under Stalin and Hitler than did Americans and would probably have much more reason to use them in a statement than Americans.

That is nonsense: I know a lot British and Germans with their wifes from Isaan who are true Thaksin believer, just because they stay in Isaan and hear day and night the good things Thaksin did.

While for example PAD-USA is very strong and strongly finance the PAD, so there must be some Anti-Thaksin Americans as well.

I think Nationality doesn't matter. Region and education. Married with a farmers lady from the East increases the Pro Thaksin propaganda, while married with a Dr. from Bangkok will bring the Farang most probably more to the PAD.

Beside that this pseudo communism isn't that popular in USA.

First, your statements are verging on racist and certainly defined your bigoted beliefs on class, money, and education. I happen to be married to that BKK Dr and I'm am from America and believe firmly in the principles that were laid out in the US constitution and, couldn't give a darn about what others think...that is why I believe in the cause of the red-shirts, its about civil liberties, which the red-shirts have had none.

Second, I didn't say all Americans agree with me, we are getting more and more of the racist, evangelical zealot, bigoted, elitist, ignorant, neo conservatives following the Bush doctrine every day. aside from the Europeans in Issan, who you claim are brain washed idiots, every single European I've asked about the red-shirts has done nothing but insult and denounce the red-shirts, just like you just did. What you are saying is stereotyping based on your bias' and prejudices, the exact thing that most Americans have a very long track record on fighting against. If you doubt that, read the US news for the past couple of weeks and see the grass roots protesting escalating over wall street, which has not spread to most major cities.

Finally, I happen to work at a company where I manage Thais with university degrees (mostly Masters and even Ph.Ds). I've supervised over 85 of them over the past 5 years. I have frequently ask them about the politics in Thailand (yellow vs red) and, I can tell you that these BKK, educated, upper class Thais do not all agree. I have one working for me now that is also working on his Ph.D. and he, and his family, are hardcore red-shirts. So you need to actually get out and talk to more people than your fat, drunken buddies from London (or whatever Euro town there from) and become educated on this yourself.

[scorecard]

The red shirts should be congratulated on their fight against dictatorship... and corruption..... and drugs.... and gambling....

Interesting as all I see is that they are fighting for DICTATORSHIP no against it

Sooner or later we all must pay the Ferry Man

Can you please share specifically how the red shirt are fighting corruption.

[gohmer]

...

The reality is that regardless of what Thaksin did (or not) the people in Thailand were allowed to vote. The fact that they were allowed - by the military backed government - to freely vote is something they would not have had without protest.

...

What did the protests gain them? Dead and injured people.

When was there any suggestion that the people wouldn't have got to vote at the time prescribed by the constitution?

The problem is, they didn't want to wait. They didn't want to be democratic. They just wanted power. Now!

Maybe when you have 18 coups, 18 constitutions since 1939, and the last two times you got to vote, the military took your vote away, the fact that all of your attempts to have democracy have been stolen by a corrupt military, which is backed by a corrupt and greedy elite few, you would be a bit impatient too. You probably don't have the same interest in Thailand I do. I'm married to a Thai (business owner, educated), I work in Thailand, and I have a daughter (Thai-American) in school here. What I see is that when you trade out governments frequently, allow extremely wealthy people to gain all of the power due to the majority rule not being enforced, you end up with a system that becomes one-sided and when that happens you have institutionalized corruption and denial of civil rights. Yes, Thaksin is corrupt...just like all of his yellow shirt peers...not doubt about it, its the Thai way.

However, what the red-shirts got was the ability to have their voice heard (and it was loud and clear), forced an early vote (that is what "power to the people" means), elected who they wanted (irrelevant about what yours or anyone's opinion is, it was their right to elect anyone they want. The US elected Bush, 2x, does that mean the system is wrong, or does it mean the Americans made a mistake and then corrected it = Democracy). There are many people dying in other countries right today in order to gain the same thing that the red-shirts fought for. The USA and its constitution was created from the same exact need and yes, it was powerful, wealthy elitists in the US 230+ years ago that were very wealthy, slave owners, corrupt business owners, etc that funded the revolution. The result of which was a country that for the last 230 years has gone from 5mi people to 315m people, mostly from immigration where people around the world wanted a better life than what they had in Europe and Asia. The combination of jobs and freedom is what has created the 3rd most populous country. Therefore, it is not my opinion that Democracy is good, it is the world's opinion. Every country in the world today that has a form of government that is highly centralized and controlled is going through a transition of pain.

Thailand still does not know what to do with democracy just like countries like Syria, Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya won't know either. It took the US its first 100 years to just begin to figure it out and in Asia, it is still a new concept. So judging the red-shirt's actions today is an exercise in vicarious masturba....

Wait until this current gov't goes its full term and see what the voters do next election and the election after that. If there is a trend of getting voter smarts, then the cost was well worth the gains. Of course, this is my opinion, which is based on the belief that voting and democracy is the only way to reduce (impossible to eliminate) and control the level of corruption in this country. Voting and appropriate distribution of wealth is the only way to keep a society content rather than controlled.

[whybother]

Maybe when you have 18 coups, 18 constitutions since 1939, and the last two times you got to vote, the military took your vote away, the fact that all of your attempts to have democracy have been stolen by a corrupt military, which is backed by a corrupt and greedy elite few, you would be a bit impatient too.

The last time, the courts banned the PPP because they were caught cheating. The time before that the courts annulled the election because the EC were cheating.

What I see is that when you trade out governments frequently, allow extremely wealthy people to gain all of the power due to the majority rule not being enforced, you end up with a system that becomes one-sided and when that happens you have institutionalized corruption and denial of civil rights. Yes, Thaksin is corrupt...just like all of his yellow shirt peers...not doubt about it, its the Thai way.

So all the red shirts are doing is wanting to put different extremely wealthy corrupt people in power. How is that different to before?

However, what the red-shirts got was the ability to have their voice heard (and it was loud and clear), forced an early vote (that is what "power to the people" means), elected who they wanted (irrelevant about what yours or anyone's opinion is, it was their right to elect anyone they want.

Their voice was heard when they got 100,000 people to their protest. They didn't need to bring in an armed militia.

They didn't force an early vote. They turned that option down before (and after) things got violent.

Wait until this current gov't goes its full term and see what the voters do next election and the election after that. If there is a trend of getting voter smarts, then the cost was well worth the gains. Of course, this is my opinion, which is based on the belief that voting and democracy is the only way to reduce (impossible to eliminate) and control the level of corruption in this country. Voting and appropriate distribution of wealth is the only way to keep a society content rather than controlled.

I'm all in agreement with that. The red shirts should have thought about it before they tried to blow up a gas tanker (2009) and before they brought out their armed militia (2010). They also should have a better figurehead than someone who didn't have democracy in mind and is just as corrupt as the people that they are fighting against.

[ginjag]

Gomer # 81

In reply to your stance defending the red shirt DEMOCRATIC movement. and remarks made at other nationals,

So you are a very highly educated, slim , who doesn't drink, This educated Ph.D is a red shirt fanatic along with his family, and therefore stand for democracy ???? what a brain and a half he has got when you can support a dictatorial regime --village control freaks--total chaos and a shambles of a government-losing every day credibility in the world, election promises that were NEVER to be carried out and a fugitive on the run guiding his pin up sister by mobile. You are NOT talking to the right people, and we are not all fat drunken Europeans= thanks for this educated remark. If you think that the topic on red shirt controlled villages, is good and democratic I suggest you do not teach.

[rixalex]

First, your statements are verging on racist and certainly defined your bigoted beliefs on class, money, and education.

So you need to actually get out and talk to more people than your fat, drunken buddies from London (or whatever Euro town there from) and become educated on this yourself.

Would be bad enough to make these two statements on different days, on different threads, but to have them together on the same post, within a paragraph or two of each other, is just frankly astonishing. Are you actually reading what you are writing? One can't help but wonder...

[MaxYakov]

Thailand still does not know what to do with democracy just like countries like Syria, Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya won't know either. It took the US its first 100 years to just begin to figure it out and in Asia, it is still a new concept. So judging the red-shirt's actions today is an exercise in vicarious masturba....

Wait until this current gov't goes its full term and see what the voters do next election and the election after that. If there is a trend of getting voter smarts, then the cost was well worth the gains. Of course, this is my opinion, which is based on the belief that voting and democracy is the only way to reduce (impossible to eliminate) and control the level of corruption in this country. Voting and appropriate distribution of wealth is the only way to keep a society content rather than controlled.

The US is, by design, a democratic Republic and not a 'democracy'. Unlimited voting rights can lead to mobocracy where the majority can vote itself to have the wealth of the relative minority. The US founding Fathers were fearful of this.

What is the 'appropriate' distribution of wealth? Who decides what is 'appropriate'? The current US President refers to this as 're-distribution' of wealth under a 'fair share' rule, which has not been defined by him.

I don't believe the wealth-producers of a country will be 'content' with the distribution of their wealth to a mobocracy, do you? However, the right of the government to seize and re-distribute wealth under laws written by that government will 'control the level of corruption' yes?

[Mosha]

Actually the USA is a Constitutional Republic, not a Democratic Republic.

[JohnAllan]

Reconciliation?

Not in this government's lifetime . . .

[bigbamboo]

The red shirts should be congratulated on their fight against dictatorship... and corruption..... and drugs.... and gambling....

Interesting as all I see is that they are fighting for DICTATORSHIP no against it

Sooner or later we all must pay the Ferry Man

Can you please share specifically how the red shirt are fighting corruption.

Scorecard...... you must be an American!