Red-Shirt Villages' Nationwide 'Federation'

[evanson]

Thaksin, Jatuporn & Co. Ltd. are digging the earth so deep in order to lay a strong foundation so that the edifice of the next Thaksin regime cannot be destroyed. Thaksin's red tentacles will soon reach every part of Thailand from Bangkok to Chiang Rai to the border with Cambodia. If Thaksin was not so blinded by power, money, and his belief that he is Thailand's Mandela and Ghandi, and he was to study history, he would see that regimes, which are not founded in morality, ethics, and a vision of the well-being of the whole nation do not last long. As they fall apart, tyranny and dictatorship set in, which hasten the dictator's downfall and ignominy. He will create one huge mess before he and his red tentacles are finally shipped off to Dubai, but the Thais will learn from the experience and the country will leap forwards in a positive direction. Since this scenario has repeated itself countless times in history, it's a pity that we can't just skip the suffering part.

When has the country leaped forward 'in a positive' direction, and under whose administration?

I'm certainly no fan of Taksin but the Other Lot seem only interested in maintaining the status quo and very little else. What did Mark actually DO whilst he was 'in' for instance? Sweet sod all, and despite reading over and over again he was being hamstrung by the Red Shirt faction comprising his coalition, that only washes a little bit. Gutless wimp. Can you imagine Taksin being similarly cowed?

The gutless wimp, Ha he was streaks ahead of handy pandy and teddy that we have now, we have replaced Abhisit with money grabbing want to rule the world wannabees.

Not sure, but didn't I read somewhere, on this very forum, I believe, that Mark's father is/was on the board of directors of the murdering money grabbing CP? No?

[ginjag]

Thaksin, Jatuporn & Co. Ltd. are digging the earth so deep in order to lay a strong foundation so that the edifice of the next Thaksin regime cannot be destroyed. Thaksin's red tentacles will soon reach every part of Thailand from Bangkok to Chiang Rai to the border with Cambodia. If Thaksin was not so blinded by power, money, and his belief that he is Thailand's Mandela and Ghandi, and he was to study history, he would see that regimes, which are not founded in morality, ethics, and a vision of the well-being of the whole nation do not last long. As they fall apart, tyranny and dictatorship set in, which hasten the dictator's downfall and ignominy. He will create one huge mess before he and his red tentacles are finally shipped off to Dubai, but the Thais will learn from the experience and the country will leap forwards in a positive direction. Since this scenario has repeated itself countless times in history, it's a pity that we can't just skip the suffering part.

When has the country leaped forward 'in a positive' direction, and under whose administration?

I'm certainly no fan of Taksin but the Other Lot seem only interested in maintaining the status quo and very little else. What did Mark actually DO whilst he was 'in' for instance? Sweet sod all, and despite reading over and over again he was being hamstrung by the Red Shirt faction comprising his coalition, that only washes a little bit. Gutless wimp. Can you imagine Taksin being similarly cowed?

The gutless wimp, Ha he was streaks ahead of handy pandy and teddy that we have now, we have replaced Abhisit with money grabbing want to rule the world wannabees.

Not sure, but didn't I read somewhere, on this very forum, I believe, that Mark's father is/was on the board of directors of the murdering money grabbing CP? No?

Could well be -They are all into some thing- but my comparison was just between the ex P.M--and the pair of ( who's running the Job) thats all and I am sure who was is the the better-the Latter by a street.

CP is a company that I buy from, chicken and other products. clean and good food standard, Who's father is involved I don't know, and don't care--because if I did I would starve to death as all company's are owned by someone thats in it for money. NOW for the murdering I am not going to comment --not wise don't you think

[animatic]

It is just creating one more network of control over the populace.

And one more group of functionaries beholden to the whims of those above them, to keep their jobs and the face making perks that come with it.

[gohmer]

The fact that they were allowed - by the military backed government - to freely vote is something they would not have had without protest.

Which protests do you refer to? The protests of 2009 and 2010?

Protests costs money.

Doesn't cost anything for people to congregate, if the reason for them being there is not financial. Perhaps the problem with the red shirt protests was that yes they believed in the cause, but no, they wouldn't have been there if they weren't being compensated in some way.

Another thing that costs money, besides paying people to attend, is the propaganda.

To say that Thaksin is using the red-shirts for his personal gain and not saying the red-shirts are using him for their gain is pure ignorance.

If you think that the red shirts will gain from their support of Thaksin, you obviously haven't been paying close attention over the last ten years as to what he has actually delivered and achieved for them.

If you are from any country in North American or Europe I am sure you have corrupt politicians that make Thaksin look like an amateur.

Nope, he pretty much leads the way.

1. 2010

2 did you take a poll and ask the red-shirts if they would be there with no compensation? I actually worked on Asoke next to BTS and would go down and eat lunch in the middle of the red-shirt encampment about 2-3 days/week, how many red-shirts did you speak with? Do you speak Thai? I do. And congregation does cost money, lots of money, when you have to travel 500+ km to do it.

3. The red-shirts got to vote, I just don't understand how all of you Europeans just don't see how far more important that is than money. I recently read that the reason Americans take the vote so much more serious than Europeans is that we had to fight for it where most of you had it granted to you by your governments, either when a Monarchy became a constitutional Monarchy, or by default of losing a war. Maybe, you all just don't "get it"

4. quantify or qualify your statement about Thaksin being the leader in the corruption category. Does Maddox ring a bell. He stole $76 billion, Thaksin's entire wealth at its peak was only 76 billion Baht. What about the corruption of Cheney and his dealings with contractors in Irag and Afghanistan? And these are the Americans, Europe has had thieves that make these guys look like amateurs. Back to the original statement of Hilter and Stalin that some more-on assumed was made by an American, these two caused more destruction then all the leaders of the world put together throughout all of history. Thaksin isn't even on the whose who list of corruption. But, I will say he is in the top few here in Thailand, others its hush hush.

[gohmer]

Thailand still does not know what to do with democracy just like countries like Syria, Tunisia, Egypt, and Libya won't know either. It took the US its first 100 years to just begin to figure it out and in Asia, it is still a new concept. So judging the red-shirt's actions today is an exercise in vicarious masturba....

Wait until this current gov't goes its full term and see what the voters do next election and the election after that. If there is a trend of getting voter smarts, then the cost was well worth the gains. Of course, this is my opinion, which is based on the belief that voting and democracy is the only way to reduce (impossible to eliminate) and control the level of corruption in this country. Voting and appropriate distribution of wealth is the only way to keep a society content rather than controlled.

The US is, by design, a democratic Republic and not a 'democracy'. Unlimited voting rights can lead to mobocracy where the majority can vote itself to have the wealth of the relative minority. The US founding Fathers were fearful of this.

What is the 'appropriate' distribution of wealth? Who decides what is 'appropriate'? The current US President refers to this as 're-distribution' of wealth under a 'fair share' rule, which has not been defined by him.

I don't believe the wealth-producers of a country will be 'content' with the distribution of their wealth to a mobocracy, do you? However, the right of the government to seize and re-distribute wealth under laws written by that government will 'control the level of corruption' yes?

Finally, an intellect in the fray. First, I agree with you. The primary purpose of the Republic is to limit the powers of Government and to govern by a constitution made up of laws; therefore, the "Rule of Law" - John Adams' view point. The problem Thailand faces is that despite having a constitution, theoretically providing the basis for the rule of law, it is subverted on average every 4.5 years by the military. In order to break this pattern, Thailand might have to go through some very tough growing pains to be a more representative government to the majority, which it has historically not been, while at the same time, not destroying the minority (the "Haves"), like what was done in China. But this can't even begin until the majority has a platform to have their issues fairly presented and addressed.

[gohmer]

The red shirts should be congratulated on their fight against dictatorship... and corruption..... and drugs.... and gambling....

Interesting as all I see is that they are fighting for DICTATORSHIP no against it

Sooner or later we all must pay the Ferry Man

Can you please share specifically how the red shirt are fighting corruption.

Scorecard...... you must be an American!

Where are you from?

[animatic]

...

The reality is that regardless of what Thaksin did (or not) the people in Thailand were allowed to vote. The fact that they were allowed - by the military backed government - to freely vote is something they would not have had without protest.

...

What did the protests gain them? Dead and injured people.

When was there any suggestion that the people wouldn't have got to vote at the time prescribed by the constitution?

The problem is, they didn't want to wait. They didn't want to be democratic. They just wanted power. Now!

Precisely.

And the mind set of these same people who wanted POWER NOW,

is what caused the last coup and will likely cause the next.

[gohmer]

Gomer # 81

In reply to your stance defending the red shirt DEMOCRATIC movement. and remarks made at other nationals,

So you are a very highly educated, slim , who doesn't drink, This educated Ph.D is a red shirt fanatic along with his family, and therefore stand for democracy ???? what a brain and a half he has got when you can support a dictatorial regime --village control freaks--total chaos and a shambles of a government-losing every day credibility in the world, election promises that were NEVER to be carried out and a fugitive on the run guiding his pin up sister by mobile. You are NOT talking to the right people, and we are not all fat drunken Europeans= thanks for this educated remark. If you think that the topic on red shirt controlled villages, is good and democratic I suggest you do not teach.

First, if you read my reply correctly, I was being sarcastic to the guy who said he had British and German friends living in Isaan with their wives. His comment pretty well said (paraphrasing), "my British and German friends are too drunk and stupid to think for themselves based on their own values and have to listen to the poor ignorants in Isaan everyday and therefore can only conclude that the red-shirts=Thaksin is good and holey". I through in the "fat" comment to just help him berate his own friends. I guess you just didn't get that clever bit of sarcasm.

Also, I never said that what this government or the red-shirts are doing is all democratic, but to vote is. What I said is that they wanted the vote, they got the vote, the vote is more important than anything if you want to build a fair and equitable country, and that Thaksin isn't the issue, he is the means to the end. I have also said in this thread that it will take Thailand, the current government and future governments (assuming freely elected) a long time to have democracy or anything close to it. However, what I don't understand is that every single European I"ve spoken with, which I have a lot of British, German, Danish, Irish, Swedish friends here in Thailand by the way, have all told me, in extreme terms, how they hate the red-shirts. I've only met a small percentage of Americans who feel the same. The Europeans seem to want to deny the red-shirts the right to vote altogether. How do you even begin to have a fair and equitable government if you just let the military rule. I've never heard of a "Benevolent Military".

Edited October 7, 2011 by gohmer

[Buchholz]

Thaksin's entire wealth at its peak was only 76 billion Baht.

there's a funny one

[Siam Simon]

Can you imagine you have to live in such a village?

Things in Thailand are getting more and more like Germany under Hitler and The Soviet Union under Stalin.

It's 'Heil Thaksin' or else.

hbullinger, perchance, are you an American? Your gift for hyperbole is astonishing.

This entire forum is nothing but hyperbole, it is astonishing, and most of the members are from Europe. Besides that, I have found that it is almost unanimous that Europeans dislike Thaksin and the red-shirts, where the vast majority of Americans have supported the red-shirts (at least their cause more than Thaksin himself), so if you go with the statistical odds, it would be more likely a European making this comment than an American. Another fact pointing in that direction is that more Europeans suffered under Stalin and Hitler than did Americans and would probably have much more reason to use them in a statement than Americans.

That is nonsense: I know a lot British and Germans with their wifes from Isaan who are true Thaksin believer, just because they stay in Isaan and hear day and night the good things Thaksin did.

While for example PAD-USA is very strong and strongly finance the PAD, so there must be some Anti-Thaksin Americans as well.

I think Nationality doesn't matter. Region and education. Married with a farmers lady from the East increases the Pro Thaksin propaganda, while married with a Dr. from Bangkok will bring the Farang most probably more to the PAD.

Beside that this pseudo communism isn't that popular in USA.

How about being married to a Thai partner and thinking for oneself? It's not that difficult.

[TAWP]

How about being married to a Thai partner and thinking for oneself? It's not that difficult.

Sounds good - but I imagine living in a red village and being subjected to constant propaganda will make that a challenge.

[rixalex]

1. 2010

2 did you take a poll and ask the red-shirts if they would be there with no compensation? I actually worked on Asoke next to BTS and would go down and eat lunch in the middle of the red-shirt encampment about 2-3 days/week, how many red-shirts did you speak with? Do you speak Thai? I do. And congregation does cost money, lots of money, when you have to travel 500+ km to do it.

3. The red-shirts got to vote, I just don't understand how all of you Europeans just don't see how far more important that is than money. I recently read that the reason Americans take the vote so much more serious than Europeans is that we had to fight for it where most of you had it granted to you by your governments, either when a Monarchy became a constitutional Monarchy, or by default of losing a war. Maybe, you all just don't "get it"

4. quantify or qualify your statement about Thaksin being the leader in the corruption category. Does Maddox ring a bell. He stole $76 billion, Thaksin's entire wealth at its peak was only 76 billion Baht. What about the corruption of Cheney and his dealings with contractors in Irag and Afghanistan? And these are the Americans, Europe has had thieves that make these guys look like amateurs. Back to the original statement of Hilter and Stalin that some more-on assumed was made by an American, these two caused more destruction then all the leaders of the world put together throughout all of history. Thaksin isn't even on the whose who list of corruption. But, I will say he is in the top few here in Thailand, others its hush hush.

Firstly, i have edited out the first part of your post as you messed up the quotations so that my responses appeared to have been written by you. I'm sure quite unintentional! Would it be possible for you to channel some of that impressive and superior intellect that you keep telling us about into mastering how to quote people properly?

Now, to your responses.

1) The red protests of 2010 had no bearing whatsoever on people being able to vote freely, because they already had this right. The protests had nothing to do with democracy, they had to do with Thaksin's court cases and his frozen monies.

2) Yes i do speak Thai, and yes i did pass through the red-shirt encampment - not by choice - and yes i did speak to red shirts, although i confess not on the subject of politics. People who go to the extreme of decking themselves out in clothing from head to toe with the face of a politician, whoever that politician may be, don't strike me as being the type of people with which a reasoned and objective discussion can be had. Perhaps you succeeded where i failed, or perhaps your sympathies more easily forgave their one-eyed perspective.

As for the costs, i repeat again, when people are genuinely incensed or moved by the state or actions of the state, they mobilize themselves with little organisation or funding. The more organisation or funding that is involved in a protest, the more seriously you need to consider what motives might be lurking behind the motives being advertised.

3) To repeat, the vote wasn't in jeopardy or under threat in 2010. Immediately after the coup, there was speculation that it was, and that the coup makers would not return the country to democratic rule, but these speculations proved unfounded. Yes you could certainly make a case that the military still meddled in politics, but that is a long way from the people not being allowed to vote.

4) If you think that Thaksin's wealth peaked at 76 billion baht i think you have some more reading to do.

Edited October 8, 2011 by rixalex

[Buchholz]

The First Red Shirt District officially opened and recognized today

BANGKOK, 9 October 2011 (NNT)-The first Red Shirt district has been officially recognized in Udon Thani province today with Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Prompan presiding over the opening ceremony.

Other political figures arriving at the event today include former Nakhon Phanom MP Dr. Prasong Boonpong and a former member of the Constitution Assembly Mr. Kanin Boonsuwan.

Both of whom traveled to Udon Thani to deliver speeches on the establishment of the Red Shirt district and the legal procedures before being joined by 3 other Pheu Thai MPs.

Over 1,000 Red Shirt followers have participated and witnessed this event today.

-- NNT 2011-10-09

[TAWP]

Will there soon be a declaration of a republic of all these red shirt 'districts'? With a President who's name starts with a T?

[whybother]

What legal procedures would they need to worry about?

[metisdead]

A post has been removed as a poster had deleted quoted post headers as he had reached the maximum number of nested quotes allowed leading to misunderstanding of who posted what. When replying to certain parts of a post, learn how to use the Insert quotation feature.

[siampolee]

I can visulise it now the new book.

The Tale Of Two Villages.

Edited October 9, 2011 by siampolee

[rubl]

I can visulise it now the new book.

The Tale Of Two Villages.

.. images removed ..

I have to disagree. Personally I'm thinking more in line of

"Now Thaksin, oh Thaksin, show us the sign

Your children are waiting to see

The morning will come when the world is mine

Tomorrow belongs

Tomorrow belongs

Tomorrow belongs to me!"

Edited October 9, 2011 by rubl