Foreign Investors Furious With Thai Govt Response To Flooding

[tlansford]

These CEOs didn't do any kind of due diligence when making the decision to locate at these sites. If they had, THEY would have known that their factories were in vulnerable locations, and that the flood defenses to protect their investments were non-existent to poor. Anyone who accepted the word of ANY government that things will be just fine has only themselves to blame. The Japanese are smarter than that, so this is the equivalent of a Thai kicking the dog when they get upset.

Furthermore, given that the flooding is now the worst since 1942, it is hardly fair to blame the new government for this situation. If the Democrats had some plan to deal with this and a track record of preventive planning as far as floods I would love to hear it. It would have been beyond the ability of any government to have marshaled all the resources necessary to deal with this massive flooding, the worst in living memory (unless you are over 80) within 2 months, or even two years. This is the result of the cumulative failure of Thailand to deal with something that everyone knew could happen again.

Who is blaming the government for the flooding? Their management of relief and communication is what most people are complaining about.

The first line of the article from TAN tries to imply this... What else could TAN really be trying to say when they write "(the govt) has failed to tackle the ravaging flood, which has ..." ??

A CNBC Broadcast reported that Japanese investors in Thailand have voiced outrage at the Thai government, saying that it has failed to tackle the ravaging flood, which has caused significant damage to the business sector.

That statement blames the gov't for not stopping the floods.

Now - that said, I agree with you Whybother, and I also think this TAN article is another example of their poor journalism. TAN is on a streak this week.

[DocN]

If you buildt your billion dollar factory on flood-land, believe the guy who takes you out for drinks and hookers at Nana that "no flood there" and you don't bring in your own experts to check on the risk: NOT MY PROBLEM!

It is a problem if the 1000s of Thai workers employed in the billion dollar factories no longer have a job.

Unfortunatly THIS foreign-investors-furious-with-thai-govt-response-to-flooding is the title of the thread.

I am aware of the disatrous impact on Thai workers and they have my sympathy. Foreign investors, bickering about fllods in places, where they shouldn't even have built ...no...they don't have it!

[rubin]

Thanks God, they have not built a nuclear power plant yet

[DocN]

If you buildt your billion dollar factory on flood-land, believe the guy who takes you out for drinks and hookers at Nana that "no flood there" and you don't bring in your own experts to check on the risk: NOT MY PROBLEM!

A bit short-sighted, don't you think?

What about all the workers laid off and their families?

What about the suppliers, their workers and families?

What about future investments in Thailand?

This kind of industry-hostile attitude is rather selfish.

Well, i would call it selfish, to come to a developping country, take tax free contracts, cheap labor and low security standards (i.e. making the production even cheaper) ...and when I find out, that all this "cheapness" obviously has a price, I start complaining about that. Every single worker has my deepest sympathy. And I am not industry- hostyle. Come here, buildt your factory to the safety- standards in your home country, pay an honest wage to your workers, do this in an enviromental friendly manner...and you are my friend! Oh...sorry...fairytale- thinking!

[OzMick]

If foreign investors are relying on flood insurance, they should read today's SMH:

But the highest (dis)honour for what organisers claim are the year's worst examples of dodgy, dubious and deceitful goods went to the insurance industry, because of the way more than two dozen insurance companies handled claims arising from the Queensland floods.

Christopher Zinn, of Choice, said there was a deluge of complaints lodged with Queensland Legal Aid over rejected insurance claims.

Policy holders were actively dissuaded from making claims, had claims summarily dismissed, were given verbal assurances that were not honoured or were exposed to a confused claims process, the legal aid service found.

Some 15 per cent of claims were rejected, affecting about 9000 policy holders. Mr Zinn said in many cases insurers had made it all but impossible for policy holders to know whether they were covered for flood.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/insurance-tops-dishonour-awards-20111025-1mi4s.html#ixzz1bnl8zCGX

[whybother]

The first line of the article from TAN tries to imply this... What else could TAN really be trying to say when they write "(the govt) has failed to tackle the ravaging flood, which has ..." ??

A CNBC Broadcast reported that Japanese investors in Thailand have voiced outrage at the Thai government, saying that it has failed to tackle the ravaging flood, which has caused significant damage to the business sector.

That statement blames the gov't for not stopping the floods.

Now - that said, I agree with you Whybother, and I also think this TAN article is another example of their poor journalism. TAN is on a streak this week.

Ahh ... but it's not blaming them for the actual floods.

But realistically, if the government had been clear with their communication, and told the businesses that they were up sh!t creek from the start, rather than saying "It's going to be OK", "No it's not", "Nothing to worry about", "Oh, too late", the businesses might have been more sympathetic. As it is, the businesses seem to think that the government's handling of the situation was just sympathetic.

[marinediscoking]

How are they different? The worst monsoons in 70 years hit in the north, both natural disasters.

Where is this coming from? Worst monsoons in 70 years? Nonsense!

The flooding is man-maid! They had too much water in the dams too early!

They had alltime high in Bhumipol dam already end of August!

I should have said 50 years. My source:

Thailand hit by worst monsoon in 50 years

[zakk9]

Now, I never posted much on Thaivisa before but has been following Thaivisa forums for the last couple of years.

I dont have much opinion on what is right or wrong in this country, even I am somewhat amused of the many bitter sweet comments that are posted here.

Like a love-hate relationship to the country that so many of us has decided to be expats in.

The reason I post a comment now is because I was quite taken by surprise by a article from the Danish news.

Im Danish and if there is anything Danish people or news media know about Thailand it is restricted to Vacation and Holiday only.

However a Meteorologist from the Danish news explained why and how Thailand end up in this flood situation. It was all very technical but I have no doubt this "professor type" did the right explanation.

Im not going to recite any of that :-)

But bottom line and his conclusion was (even though a quite one) that the Thai authorities should/would have known 1-2 months ago that it would come to this flooding - inevitable. No blaming or complaning from him. No mention of a Thaksin, Abhisit, Democrat, Red Shirt, Yellow shirt or anything - just plain facts.

According to the Meteorologist it was simply a matter of mathematics.

So this is where I really felt sad, and maybe that my start of bitter-sweet comments on this forum. Even I hope not.

Do you have a link to the Danish article?

[animatic]

These CEOs didn't do any kind of due diligence when making the decision to locate at these sites. If they had, THEY would have known that their factories were in vulnerable locations, and that the flood defenses to protect their investments were non-existent to poor. Anyone who accepted the word of ANY government that things will be just fine has only themselves to blame. The Japanese are smarter than that, so this is the equivalent of a Thai kicking the dog when they get upset.

Furthermore, given that the flooding is now the worst since 1942, it is hardly fair to blame the new government for this situation. If the Democrats had some plan to deal with this and a track record of preventive planning as far as floods I would love to hear it. It would have been beyond the ability of any government to have marshaled all the resources necessary to deal with this massive flooding, the worst in living memory (unless you are over 80) within 2 months, or even two years. This is the result of the cumulative failure of Thailand to deal with something that everyone knew could happen again.

Who is blaming the government for the flooding? Their management of relief and communication is what most people are complaining about.

It was well known public knowledge on August 1st.

What did they do about it?

It was known in July to be happening up north the day of the election.

Who did they ask to do anything about it?

Would releasing enough water from the dams up stream to make space,

have probably damaged the rice crop aimed at the Rice Pledging Scheme? Yes,

So delay, delay, delay, don't release the dams ok...

and make the rice mafias quid pro quo for the delivered election, a reality.

Oh wait there is TOO MUCH WATER...

ooooh, back pedal, panic, release, panic, release, lose rice, panic,

lose more rice and houses, panic and try to spin it onto the Democrats and their alies.... It must be their fault they are the evil elite!!!!! Spin, spin, spin, spin, like a political dervish.

Oh now it's screwed up Manufacturing for several countries, and all the foreign investment is up in arms, and the rice scheme is dead and those boys still want quid pro quo, and it's ruined the off season day jobs of the same voters that put them in office, and millions are now in the streets homeless... And the Japanese want to be fixed back up too... Epic fail mode panic.

Of course this government is culpable for gross errors in judgment.

But they might bring Thaksin home for Christmas!

Edited October 25, 2011 by animatic

[klaus303]

Do you have a link to the Danish article?

It was not an article but part of the TV news update. In other words its was live TV (or what its called)

There is a station called "DR Update" which is sort of a News channel for the Danish national TV. They broadcast updated news around the clock and its accessible from outside Denmark via Internet.

They might rerun it (saw it 2 days ago) - here is the link to the station http://www.dr.dk/nu/live#/DR Update

[tonglen]

PM Yingluck Declines To Declare SOE For Fear Of Affecting Foreign Investors Confidence

http://www.thaivisa....ors-confidence/

Now that foreign investors confidence is gone, will Yingluck be declaring a SOE?

S.O.E.? Maybe she will be declaring a S.O.L. if things dont change.

Pride is before a flood...er...fall.

[zakk9]

I found another Danish article, possibly the same man, Martin Stendel interviewed by Berlingske on the 19th of this month. He says that it's been 50% more rain than normal in the north (even more in the east, but that isn't relevant for Ayutthaya and Bangkok, since that runs off to Mekong). Although 50% is a big increase, I find it hard to believe that there haven't been similar amounts of water falling the last 50 years, and even if it was 50 years since the last time, they should have been prepared for it. If it's happened once, it may happen again. This is of course the responsibility of various governments through the years. Where the current government has failed, is to see the reality of this year's flooding early enough, even though it has been very easy to predict for around three months, or two months before it started to turn bad.

I suppose that there are qualified hydrologists available in Thailand. Unfortunately, people with special abilities or competence don't float to the top easily in this country. Money, connections, family and old age seem to count more when decision makers are chosen.

100 years ago, Thailand had what was probably one of the most elaborate and well function flood prevention systems in the world, the enormous network of canals. Unfortunately, this network is partly badly maintained, and except for the pumps that have been installed the last decades, the capacity hasn't been adapted to the realities of the 21st century. That can also be said about flood prevention in all of Ayutthaya province; it's probably the same as it was when the Burmese burned down the city in 1767.

[timberboy]

Where is the Army when we need them

Dont know where the army is, but the US Navy fleet is heading back out from the Gulf of Thailand with its aircraft carrier and escorts with its fleet of helicopters and all of the emergency aid that the flortilla was carrying for Bangkok, seems the US needed an official SOS call for help to begin with emergency assistance, one from the government and one from the military, but could only get one yes and one no which means its a no-go and away the navy sails into the horizon, amazing Thailand never stops amazing me.

I dont understand it either. Thats so stupid. There was a tremendous supply of help on those ships, medical, humanitarian and more. Does the new PM need to show the world that she is capable of doing it by herself without foreign assistance? [meanwhile how many people have to die, become homeless, ill , or unemployed so she can prove it? ]. Yingluck may have hesitated to call for "national emergency" in order to try to keep confidence of the foreign investors that have factories in Thailand. BUT that credibility is now gone!!! the waters are just too much...... So why turn down help from people who want to help the nation? USA and Thailand have been friends since 1945 and have very good relations. How selfish can Yingluck be? or maybe her advisors suggested against taking the aid?? No one knows the answer yet.

Oh i forgot they did accept some aid from Singapore, which is very nice of them to help. I have not seen any other countries in the region do that yet.

My prayers are for the people of Thailand. May this suffering pass soon.:jap:

[KeyserSoze01]

Why were these large industrial estates given permission to develop / start up in their current locations, surely some internal agencies should have said the locations were not suitable (example Thai BOE).

And surely there are locations which would be higher and above flood risks, are accessible by transport and infrastructure needs, close to towns etc.

Guess it's the old story of cronyism, etc., make a dollar and never mind the consequences to workers, their families etc.

The reason the factories were built there are for the usual reasons. Access to cheap labor, infrastructure, transportation, favorable tax breaks, the one-off backhander and of course the obligatory trip to Nana.

Flood zones are defined by the likelihood that a flood will impact that area every 10, 25, 50 and 100 years. Not many places plan for 100 year events...

Natural disasters are arising at an alarming rate. Last week it was Turkey's turn with a major earthquake. Last spring it was Japan's turn with the earthquakes and tsunami. Mother nature is pissed off and it's Thailand's turn to take a bite of the <deleted> sandwich.

Edited October 25, 2011 by KeyserSoze01

[backsoon]

PM Yingluck Declines To Declare SOE For Fear Of Affecting Foreign Investors Confidence

http://www.thaivisa....ors-confidence/

Now that foreign investors confidence is gone, will Yingluck be declaring a SOE?

Please, PLEASE, Not at the times like this!

Yingluck, Abhisit, even the Almighty Thaksin, can not help the natural disaster like flood. It is sad, it is very unfortunate, but we all will have to cope one way or another.

And on this particular issue, please do not politicize! Japs not happy with the flood? Maybe they prefer tsunamis, earthquakes or nucs leak? PLEASE, people, let's be sensible :jap:

[whybother]

PM Yingluck Declines To Declare SOE For Fear Of Affecting Foreign Investors Confidence

http://www.thaivisa....ors-confidence/

Now that foreign investors confidence is gone, will Yingluck be declaring a SOE?

Please, PLEASE, Not at the times like this!

Yingluck, Abhisit, even the Almighty Thaksin, can not help the natural disaster like flood. It is sad, it is very unfortunate, but we all will have to cope one way or another.

And on this particular issue, please do not politicize! Japs not happy with the flood? Maybe they prefer tsunamis, earthquakes or nucs leak? PLEASE, people, let's be sensible :jap:

A state of emergency isn't politicizing it. It gives the authorities more power to get things done. Maybe it's not needed, but using an excuse of "we don't want to scare foreign investors" is just the usual "Thai Face" problem. "Just ignore the problem if it makes you look bad."

[jayboy]

A state of emergency isn't politicizing it. It gives the authorities more power to get things done. Maybe it's not needed, but using an excuse of "we don't want to scare foreign investors" is just the usual "Thai Face" problem. "Just ignore the problem if it makes you look bad."

Can you be much more precise please.What exact powers does a SOE provide that the government doesn't already have?

[whybother]

A state of emergency isn't politicizing it. It gives the authorities more power to get things done. Maybe it's not needed, but using an excuse of "we don't want to scare foreign investors" is just the usual "Thai Face" problem. "Just ignore the problem if it makes you look bad."

Can you be much more precise please.What exact powers does a SOE provide that the government doesn't already have?

What's the point of having a "State of Emergency" law if it doesn't give the government more powers?

"Maybe it's not needed", but using it or suggesting it's use is not politicizing it.

[jayboy]

What's the point of having a "State of Emergency" law if it doesn't give the government more powers?

"Maybe it's not needed", but using it or suggesting it's use is not politicizing it.

In all seriousness what precise relevant powers would a SOE provide that the authorities don't have already ? If you don't know the answer that's fine.(I don't either which is why I ask the question)

[rametindallas]

If you buildt your billion dollar factory on flood-land, believe the guy who takes you out for drinks and hookers at Nana that "no flood there" and you don't bring in your own experts to check on the risk: NOT MY PROBLEM!

Either way, the bottom line is this does not look good for future or even present investment in Thailand.

[nicky1982]

If you buildt your billion dollar factory on flood-land, believe the guy who takes you out for drinks and hookers at Nana that "no flood there" and you don't bring in your own experts to check on the risk: NOT MY PROBLEM!

Either way, the bottom line is this does not look good for future or even present investment in Thailand.

I have to agree with you on that plus its going to be very interesting to see who leaves Thailand once all this water gone i would say maybe 10 / 20% due to poor dealings with this ..

[rametindallas]

Where is the Army when we need them

Dont know where the army is, but the US Navy fleet is heading back out from the Gulf of Thailand with its aircraft carrier and escorts with its fleet of helicopters and all of the emergency aid that the flortilla was carrying for Bangkok, seems the US needed an official SOS call for help to begin with emergency assistance, one from the government and one from the military, but could only get one yes and one no which means its a no-go and away the navy sails into the horizon, amazing Thailand never stops amazing me.

I dont understand it either. Thats so stupid. There was a tremendous supply of help on those ships, medical, humanitarian and more. Does the new PM need to show the world that she is capable of doing it by herself without foreign assistance? [meanwhile how many people have to die, become homeless, ill , or unemployed so she can prove it? ]. Yingluck may have hesitated to call for "national emergency" in order to try to keep confidence of the foreign investors that have factories in Thailand. BUT that credibility is now gone!!! the waters are just too much...... So why turn down help from people who want to help the nation? USA and Thailand have been friends since 1945 and have very good relations. How selfish can Yingluck be? or maybe her advisors suggested against taking the aid?? No one knows the answer yet.

Oh i forgot they did accept some aid from Singapore, which is very nice of them to help. I have not seen any other countries in the region do that yet.

My prayers are for the people of Thailand. May this suffering pass soon.:jap:

China airlifts third batch of flood relief goods to Bangkok

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/china/2011-10/22/c_131206639.htm

[rametindallas]

If you buildt your billion dollar factory on flood-land, believe the guy who takes you out for drinks and hookers at Nana that "no flood there" and you don't bring in your own experts to check on the risk: NOT MY PROBLEM!

Either way, the bottom line is this does not look good for future or even present investment in Thailand.

I have to agree with you on that plus its going to be very interesting to see who leaves Thailand once all this water gone i would say maybe 10 / 20% due to poor dealings with this ..

Most won't leave because they have a great deal here. Their belligerant attitude will get them some concessions from the taxpayers hopefully to be spent on MUCH higher floodwalls around the industrial estates. Had the government begun to put sheet pilings around the perimeter of the industrial estates two months ago, many would be closed but undamaged and quick to reopen. I hope (but doubt) this will be a 'wake-up' call to take preventative measures. If they properly prepare for future floods this dry season, they may yet draw new investors. I hope this government doesn't give away too much because they have the opportunity to become Very attractive to foreign investment in the future. Time will tell.

[serenitynow]

What's the point of having a "State of Emergency" law if it doesn't give the government more powers?

"Maybe it's not needed", but using it or suggesting it's use is not politicizing it.

In all seriousness what precise relevant powers would a SOE provide that the authorities don't have already ? If you don't know the answer that's fine.(I don't either which is why I ask the question)

It gives the power to not have to listen to idiots. Which is great power indeed here in this land of ineptitude.

[Rosco911]

In a lot of cases you are all missing the point. It is not just the Japanese or businesses in Bangkok that are outraged with the way the government has handled this situation.

When Chiang Mai floods it effects business in the north but one thing is certain, it means large amounts of water is heading for Bangkok from all over the north, preparations should have been made a long time ago to try and limit the damage. Officials visited Chiang Mai during the floods were do they think this water is heading mmmm maybe BKK and surrounding areas.

Chiang Mai is now dry but the floods in Bangkok continue to effect businesses in the north due to supplies of consumables and raw materials. We are told export containers cannot be delivered then later told we can get them but must pay extra. Once again someone just cashing in on others misfortune.

There is no mistake here, the government has screwed up and will certainly pay the price.

Although big businesses may be compensated my business and the people who have lost everything will not. Never mind though its all under control.

[rangefinder]

If you buildt your billion dollar factory on flood-land, believe the guy who takes you out for drinks and hookers at Nana that "no flood there" and you don't bring in your own experts to check on the risk: NOT MY PROBLEM!

Either way, the bottom line is this does not look good for future or even present investment in Thailand.

I have to agree with you on that plus its going to be very interesting to see who leaves Thailand once all this water gone i would say maybe 10 / 20% due to poor dealings with this ..

Most won't leave because they have a great deal here. Their belligerant attitude will get them some concessions from the taxpayers hopefully to be spent on MUCH higher floodwalls around the industrial estates. Had the government begun to put sheet pilings around the perimeter of the industrial estates two months ago, many would be closed but undamaged and quick to reopen. I hope (but doubt) this will be a 'wake-up' call to take preventative measures. If they properly prepare for future floods this dry season, they may yet draw new investors. I hope this government doesn't give away too much because they have the opportunity to become Very attractive to foreign investment in the future. Time will tell.

Don't worry ! as usual they will "give away" or sell what does not belong to them and rob the rest - have faith in Thai Culture !

[rangefinder]

PM Yingluck Declines To Declare SOE For Fear Of Affecting Foreign Investors Confidence

http://www.thaivisa....ors-confidence/

Now that foreign investors confidence is gone, will Yingluck be declaring a SOE?

Please, PLEASE, Not at the times like this!

Yingluck, Abhisit, even the Almighty Thaksin, can not help the natural disaster like flood. It is sad, it is very unfortunate, but we all will have to cope one way or another.

And on this particular issue, please do not politicize! Japs not happy with the flood? Maybe they prefer tsunamis, earthquakes or nucs leak? PLEASE, people, let's be sensible :jap:

A state of emergency isn't politicizing it. It gives the authorities more power to get things done. Maybe it's not needed, but using an excuse of "we don't want to scare foreign investors" is just the usual "Thai Face" problem. "Just ignore the problem if it makes you look bad."

Hey ! Are you criticizing Thai Culture ?

Remember the rules (for Falang)

1. You do NOT talk about Thai Culture !

2. You do NOT talk about Thai Culture !

3 If you are new to Thai Culture you must get f**ked over by Thai Culture !

[whybother]

What's the point of having a "State of Emergency" law if it doesn't give the government more powers?

"Maybe it's not needed", but using it or suggesting it's use is not politicizing it.

In all seriousness what precise relevant powers would a SOE provide that the authorities don't have already ? If you don't know the answer that's fine.(I don't either which is why I ask the question)

Possibly, forced evacuations. But based on the wording of the tweet, I'd prefer a better source.

People now evacuating in deep nonthaburi despite flood water for 1 month. SOE would have meant forced evacs earlier but acc to. But acc to mil source Govt didn't want to appear not in control of flooding sitch/via@anasuya

[harryfrompattaya]

If you buildt your billion dollar factory on flood-land, believe the guy who takes you out for drinks and hookers at Nana that "no flood there" and you don't bring in your own experts to check on the risk: NOT MY PROBLEM!

Either way, the bottom line is this does not look good for future or even present investment in Thailand.

My wife Friends are very very very very very very very Hi So and they all tell do not worry their is thousand if not millions waiting to invest in the LOS and many of very very very very very very Farangs Billionaires tell me the same.

Good day I have to start drinking.

[dominique355]

If you buildt your billion dollar factory on flood-land, believe the guy who takes you out for drinks and hookers at Nana that "no flood there" and you don't bring in your own experts to check on the risk: NOT MY PROBLEM!

A bit short-sighted, don't you think?

What about all the workers laid off and their families?

What about the suppliers, their workers and families?

What about future investments in Thailand?

This kind of industry-hostile attitude is rather selfish.

Well, i would call it selfish, to come to a developping country, take tax free contracts, cheap labor and low security standards (i.e. making the production even cheaper) ...and when I find out, that all this "cheapness" obviously has a price, I start complaining about that. Every single worker has my deepest sympathy. And I am not industry- hostyle. Come here, buildt your factory to the safety- standards in your home country, pay an honest wage to your workers, do this in an enviromental friendly manner...and you are my friend! Oh...sorry...fairytale- thinking!

It's a bit more complicated and complex than that.

Or would you rather prefer all these evil foreign investors to build factories only in their home countries (Japan, Germany, US etc) and deny workers in Thailand (and other "poor" countries) a chance for a job? And people like you and me being able to buy these products at an affordable price?

Or would you prefer these evil foreign investors to build to the same standards as in Germany, US, Japan etc, thus increasing the cost by several factors, pay the domestic workers a wage similar to the one paid in the investor's home country, notwithstanding the local cost of life, and thus making the products made here so expensive that the investment is a failure after a year, workers laid off again and people complaining about the high prices of products, choosing a pirate products instead? (Pirates typically pay even less to their sweat shop workers!)

I would rather prefer these evil investors to invest their dirty money here in Thailand and at the same time the Thai government doing their job. And I include all Thai governments, the present and the past ones, to do their job in the interest of people instead of their own.

This way progress may be slower but sustainable instead of short and then 2 steps back.