What'S The Best Way To Get Lipitor, For Cholesterol Control?

[Zanby]

I just saw a commercial on America TV. www.lipitorforyou.com they will cover the patent information and they are promoting a 4 dollar per month plan for those who need assistance (bless their hearts). Let us know.

Lipitor controlled my cholesterol very well for the five years I took it. That was until I developed severe muscle pains and weakness from it. Some of the pain stopped within a week of stopping the pills. Four years later I still have continual, bothersome pain. These complications have been the worst health problem I have actually experienced in my life. For the past four years I have controlled the cholesterol with niacin which is cheap and safe. I get mine at 8 cents a pill from endur.com. Myopathy (muscle pain and weakness) is associated with all statins. I would never, under any circumstances, take another statin.

Niacin is also the only medication that in tests has actually shown reduced mortality.

Thanks CaptHaddock!

I have been wondering myself about the new pain I am getting in my cave muscle!! I have only been taking Lipitor 20 mg for about 2-3 years (nightly) and just started to notice this new pain!

At first I thought, it has to do with either age or my lack of movement (I am retired and just do market trading -- don't we all? ). But I think I will give it a try and see!

I will stop taking Lipitor as of tonight and I have just ordered the 250 mg Niacin you mentioned. I would see what my doctor will say in his next test of my Cholesterol

Many thanks again,

Zan.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Zanby

[Thighlander]

Do you guys drink enough water? My dad takes 80 mg per day...at 78 he prefers his own pull cart on the Golf Course. Probably couldn't hear a caddie, anyway. His Doc is very pro Lipitor, and says he doesn't even want to know what the prices are because he wants to base his opinions on science not economics, which is nice if you can afford it.

[meatboy]

was on simvastatin 80mg.for 4years the last year i suffered from joint pain i could hardly walk,as my col.leval went from [uk.measure ] 8.5 to 4.5 my doc.put me on lipitor which was fine,only take 20mg.statin a day still no pain.the main side effects are joint pains,also living in a cold climate doesnt help.another way i got my col.down was not eating after 5pm.only fruit.

[CaptHaddock]

I just saw a commercial on America TV. www.lipitorforyou.com they will cover the patent information and they are promoting a 4 dollar per month plan for those who need assistance (bless their hearts). Let us know.

Lipitor controlled my cholesterol very well for the five years I took it. That was until I developed severe muscle pains and weakness from it. Some of the pain stopped within a week of stopping the pills. Four years later I still have continual, bothersome pain. These complications have been the worst health problem I have actually experienced in my life. For the past four years I have controlled the cholesterol with niacin which is cheap and safe. I get mine at 8 cents a pill from endur.com. Myopathy (muscle pain and weakness) is associated with all statins. I would never, under any circumstances, take another statin.

Niacin is also the only medication that in tests has actually shown reduced mortality.

Thanks CaptHaddock!

I have been wondering myself about the new pain I am getting in my cave muscle!! I have only been taking Lipitor 20 mg for about 2-3 years (nightly) and just started to notice this new pain!

At first I thought, it has to do with either age or my lack of movement (I am retired and just do market trading -- don't we all? ). But I think I will give it a try and see!

I will stop taking Lipitor as of tonight and I have just ordered the 250 mg Niacin you mentioned. I would see what my doctor will say in his next test of my Cholesterol

Many thanks again,

Zan.

I am using the slow release version and take 1500 mg once per day, just before going to bed at night. I found that taking 1000 mg per day had very little effect. So there is a threshhold effect. Some people cannot tolerate the flushing effect of niacin. I found it noticeable, but not a problem, for the first month and have forgotten it after that. If flushing is a problem, take a baby aspirin (81 mg.) along with the niacin for a few weeks. The maximum dosages for slow release is lower than for the immediate release version. So, you should read up on niacin treatment before proceeding, in my opinion. One good place to start is the book by Dr. William Parsons who conducted some of the large niacin tests originally. The book is "Cholesterol Control Without Diet." You can order a used copy for $1 from here:

http://www.abebooks....6x%3D77%26y%3D8

Most doctors know very little about niacin.

I think it is important to get complete lipid profiles, especially when you are changing treatment, and to log them so htat you can see the results of different medications. The expected effect of niacin treatment is to lower ldl and raise hdl, which is the effect it has on me. The statins do lower ldl, but do not raise hdl.

By the way, despite the title of Parsons' book my experience is that diet continues to matter. So, I try to reduce fat in the diet as much as possible and to increase aerobic activity.

Good luck to you. Let us know how it goes.

Edited November 2, 2011 by CaptHaddock

[CaptHaddock]

Do you guys drink enough water? My dad takes 80 mg per day...at 78 he prefers his own pull cart on the Golf Course. Probably couldn't hear a caddie, anyway. His Doc is very pro Lipitor, and says he doesn't even want to know what the prices are because he wants to base his opinions on science not economics, which is nice if you can afford it.

Doctors are generally pro-statins for several reasons:

they get their information from drug companies

drug companies are not interested in niacin because it can't be patented

so no studies are done on niacin

statins are the conventional treatment. When doctors prescribe the conventional treatment they thereby protect themselves from litigation, an overriding concern at least for doctors in the US. It was my own US doctor who explained this to me at which point I fired him.

[Thighlander]

not to mention them doing a credit check on you before taking your vitals, and treatment is based on how good (or bad) your insurance coverage is.

[Thighlander]

Lipitor patent comes off tomorrow.....http://www.cnbc.com/id/45475511

[elektrified]

Lipitor patent comes off tomorrow.....http://www.cnbc.com/id/45475511

And generics produced by 2 different companies are now available in Thailand. They are both legitimate and like everything here, fluctuate wildly in price from pharmacy to pharmacy.

[LemanRus]

Thanks for the info Suradit!

Actually, I am still in the US but I intend on coming over to Chiang Mai in couple of weeks on a 'retirement trial' basis hence, the question.

Now that you have mentioned insurance, what exactly would you recommend for a single newbie retiree like me to get? What's insurance is possible and/or recommended? Website?

PS: I take exactly what you take! Thanks god I don't take any other drugs though.

Rgds,

Zan.

I have a member card at Fascino's and their prices are less expensive than at Pharma Choice on most medications.

I get Lipitor 20 mg strip of 10 tablets @ Baht 613 from Fascino's in Pattaya.

As for insurance, if you don't already have insurance, I doubt you can expect to start insurance now that would immediately cover a pre-existing condition.

How old are you? If under 65, there are many choices. There are perhaps 75 or more insurance companies in Thailand that you can purchase various levels of coverage from. Some are very basic, others aimed at the ex-pat and are much more expensive. If you are 65 then you are out of luck.

As for the Lipitor, Dr. Morgan's clinic has the (real) generic for much less than the Pfeizer brand. I think 10 X 20 mg. tablets are around 400 Baht. I used to take 20 mg. but she lowered the dose to 10 mg. 10 X 10 mg. cost 200 Baht.

What happens when you are over 65?

[elektrified]

"What happens when you are over 65?"

Then you need to pay cash for hospitalizations, surgery, etc. or go back to your home country for treatment under your government's plan; if any. In Thailand you become uninsurable (unless you have a policy prior to that, then they can renew you at their discretion).

[MattFS218]

I saw this topic while researching prices for Lipitor. I take the 10 mg Pfizer brand imported from Ireland and Germany and pay 430 THB/10 pack strip at the neighborhood pharmacy here in Chonburi. So far it's the best price I have found for the real stuff, and the pharmacist speaks great english and has always been good to me. PM if you are interested in her location.

--matt

[CMX]

Yes, statins are very effective. However, muscle pain and even muscle or organ damage can result - the risks to those of us who are vulnerable has not been honestly reported by the manufacturers until recently. At the first hint of muscle pain, we should go to our physician.

There were published this week reports of a significant study which shows that Niacin when taken with statins is ineffective. Nothing new on niacin alone in the study, however.

[uptheos]

I saw this topic while researching prices for Lipitor. I take the 10 mg Pfizer brand imported from Ireland and Germany and pay 430 THB/10 pack strip at the neighborhood pharmacy here in Chonburi. So far it's the best price I have found for the real stuff, and the pharmacist speaks great english and has always been good to me. PM if you are interested in her location.

--matt

Good of you, but it's a bit far to go from Chiang Mai.

[chiang mai]

Sugar will raise your cholestrol faster then protien or fat.

This is unsubstantiated.

Source ?

What I read was that sugar increases your tryglycerides, which in turn raises your cholesterol. Don't think it could be worse than bad fat, though. Would welcome any links...

Eliminating sweetened drinks is the easiest way to combat high added sugar intake.

I don't think you understood the article completely, Triglycerides is fat not sugar based:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triglyceride

[Dante99]

I saw this topic while researching prices for Lipitor. I take the 10 mg Pfizer brand imported from Ireland and Germany and pay 430 THB/10 pack strip at the neighborhood pharmacy here in Chonburi. So far it's the best price I have found for the real stuff, and the pharmacist speaks great english and has always been good to me. PM if you are interested in her location. --matt

Buy the 20mg and break it in half, that will save you some money and is fine with the doctors I have spoken with.

[elektrified]

I saw this topic while researching prices for Lipitor. I take the 10 mg Pfizer brand imported from Ireland and Germany and pay 430 THB/10 pack strip at the neighborhood pharmacy here in Chonburi. So far it's the best price I have found for the real stuff, and the pharmacist speaks great english and has always been good to me. PM if you are interested in her location.

--matt

Not exactly the best of deals since I pay 170 THB for the same thing but from another pharmaceutical company. There are at least 2 different generic equivalents in Thailand now since the patent issue has passed. (Exactly the the same medication). No need to keep giving Pfizer the big bucks!

[hellodolly]

I just saw a commercial on America TV. www.lipitorforyou.com they will cover the patent information and they are promoting a 4 dollar per month plan for those who need assistance (bless their hearts). Let us know.

Lipitor controlled my cholesterol very well for the five years I took it. That was until I developed severe muscle pains and weakness from it. Some of the pain stopped within a week of stopping the pills. Four years later I still have continual, bothersome pain. These complications have been the worst health problem I have actually experienced in my life. For the past four years I have controlled the cholesterol with niacin which is cheap and safe. I get mine at 8 cents a pill from endur.com. Myopathy (muscle pain and weakness) is associated with all statins. I would never, under any circumstances, take another statin.

Niacin is also the only medication that in tests has actually shown reduced mortality.

Spot on

I quit taking Lipitor and some of the pains went away.

Al the statins have side affects many of them worse than the problem.

I take niacin. I could not find it in any decent dosage here in Chiang Mai so I told my doctor. Doctor Morgan she special ordered it from Bangkok and I am on it now regularly and my cholesterol counts are acceptable. In short it is doing what the Lipitor didn't do and it is pain free.

These are my experiences and as you can see they are very different than many others.

Back in Canada they advertised it on TV along with a list of possible side effects and people who should not take it.

[uptheos]

I presume you take quite a large dose, can I ask how high?

How's the flush?..... or can Dr Morgan get 'flush free" Niacin.

[simoncnx]

I have a member card at Fascino's and their prices are less expensive than at Pharma Choice on most medications.

Have to agree best place and really not worth bothering about insurance

[hellodolly]

Do you guys drink enough water? My dad takes 80 mg per day...at 78 he prefers his own pull cart on the Golf Course. Probably couldn't hear a caddie, anyway. His Doc is very pro Lipitor, and says he doesn't even want to know what the prices are because he wants to base his opinions on science not economics, which is nice if you can afford it.

Doctors are generally pro-statins for several reasons:

they get their information from drug companies

drug companies are not interested in niacin because it can't be patented

so no studies are done on niacin

statins are the conventional treatment. When doctors prescribe the conventional treatment they thereby protect themselves from litigation, an overriding concern at least for doctors in the US. It was my own US doctor who explained this to me at which point I fired him.

You fired him for telling you the truth?

[hellodolly]

I presume you take quite a large dose, can I ask how high?

How's the flush?..... or can Dr Morgan get 'flush free" Niacin.

She gets a buffered one. I take it at night before I go to bed and about once a month I will wake up with a rush.

Sorry I don't know the dosage I will next week when I get my monthly supply. I think it is in the 1,000 I was taking a B compound that advertised it as a part but it was only 300 and she said it was not that good anyhow.

You might e-mail her I believe you see Doctor Martin also. It is not cheap but it works for me.

[uptheos]

You might e-mail her I believe you see Doctor Martin also. It is not cheap but it works for me.

The only Doc Martin I know is Martin Clunes on TV.

I don't need to email her, it's just a general question. I see her monthly anyway.

[hellodolly]

You might e-mail her I believe you see Doctor Martin also. It is not cheap but it works for me.

The only Doc Martin I know is Martin Clunes on TV.

I don't need to email her, it's just a general question. I see her monthly anyway.

Having a senior hour. Doctor Morgan

I have a friend who takes 1000 mm a day of the unbuffered kind. I brought back with me from the states she was adamant about it being unbuffered. Had to settle for 500mm pills. Couldn't find the 1000.

[CaptHaddock]

Do you guys drink enough water? My dad takes 80 mg per day...at 78 he prefers his own pull cart on the Golf Course. Probably couldn't hear a caddie, anyway. His Doc is very pro Lipitor, and says he doesn't even want to know what the prices are because he wants to base his opinions on science not economics, which is nice if you can afford it.

Doctors are generally pro-statins for several reasons:

they get their information from drug companies

drug companies are not interested in niacin because it can't be patented

so no studies are done on niacin

statins are the conventional treatment. When doctors prescribe the conventional treatment they thereby protect themselves from litigation, an overriding concern at least for doctors in the US. It was my own US doctor who explained this to me at which point I fired him.

You fired him for telling you the truth?

In a conversation with this doctor about using medical info from the internet, he explained that it was necessary to filter the junk info and for that patients need a doctor. I agreed completely, but explained that the problem with doctors is that we want them to apply their knowledge according to our own risk/reward preferences. His blunt reply was that that would never happen. The doctor (in the US, at least) has to protect himself from litigation, implying that the doctor would apply his own risk/reward preference. What would happen, he asked, if I keeled over while taking the niacin. My wife could sue him. So, I asked him did he expect me to take a pill (statin) to protect him from a lawsuit?

The problem of defensive medicine in the US goes beyond over-testing which patients don't care about too much because the insurance companies pay. Defensive medicine also means overprescribing and restricting treatment to the most conventional ones. Sometimes the difference matters a lot, as it did for me in this case.

[hellodolly]

Do you guys drink enough water? My dad takes 80 mg per day...at 78 he prefers his own pull cart on the Golf Course. Probably couldn't hear a caddie, anyway. His Doc is very pro Lipitor, and says he doesn't even want to know what the prices are because he wants to base his opinions on science not economics, which is nice if you can afford it.

Doctors are generally pro-statins for several reasons:

they get their information from drug companies

drug companies are not interested in niacin because it can't be patented

so no studies are done on niacin

statins are the conventional treatment. When doctors prescribe the conventional treatment they thereby protect themselves from litigation, an overriding concern at least for doctors in the US. It was my own US doctor who explained this to me at which point I fired him.

You fired him for telling you the truth?

In a conversation with this doctor about using medical info from the internet, he explained that it was necessary to filter the junk info and for that patients need a doctor. I agreed completely, but explained that the problem with doctors is that we want them to apply their knowledge according to our own risk/reward preferences. His blunt reply was that that would never happen. The doctor (in the US, at least) has to protect himself from litigation, implying that the doctor would apply his own risk/reward preference. What would happen, he asked, if I keeled over while taking the niacin. My wife could sue him. So, I asked him did he expect me to take a pill (statin) to protect him from a lawsuit?

The problem of defensive medicine in the US goes beyond over-testing which patients don't care about too much because the insurance companies pay. Defensive medicine also means overprescribing and restricting treatment to the most conventional ones. Sometimes the difference matters a lot, as it did for me in this case.

Good points..

It is a sad situation when a doctor has to worry so much about being sued that he or she can not step out side of prescribed boundres.

But where do you find a doctor in the states who is not confined by these limitations. Far to easy to sue there.

[orang37]

Keep in mind that Niacin is nicotinic acid, and that niacinimide, another form of this B vitamin related chemical, has no demonstrable effect on cholesterol. Currently the American Medical Association does not recommend Niacin because it can damage the liver, and raise glucose levels dangerously. At the dose level required for Niacin to affect cholesterol, it is a "drug," not a "vitamin." If your risk factors for heart disease (which should be assessed by a physician) show your only risk factor is high cholesterol (of the "bad type"), then there is no indication you need a statin.

If you use either statins or niacin without a thorough physical exam, and cardio exam, taking into account family history, lifestyle, etc. from a competent physician you are "playing with fire." http://www.rxlist.com/niaspan-drug.htm

Substantial research indicates change in patterns of diet and exercise can not only raise "good cholesterol," but "lower the bad," and the secondary benefits of such life-style changes (mental vitality, physical strength, aerobic fitness, increasing the strength of the immune systems, and decreasing vulnerability to stress-related dis-orders) are well demonstrated.

Re the large-scale clinical trial of Niacin plus statins:

"The trial, known as AIM-HIGH, followed more than 3,414 patients with cardiovascular disease who had used statin drugs to lower their LDL cholesterol. They then received either a high dose (1,500-2,000 mg) of extended-release niacin (Niaspan) along with their statin drug, or a placebo along with their statin drug for 32 months, at which point the trial was stopped. While the niacin-statin combination therapy increased HDL ("good") cholesterol and lowered the amount of fat in the blood better than the use of a statin-only regimen, it didn't reduce the number of heart attacks, strokes, or hospitalizations for certain other heart problems. And, in fact, according to the study, it actually slightly increased the risk of stroke.In other words, although the addition of niacin further reduced over cholesterol levels, reduced triglycerides, and improved the HDL to LDL ratio in the subjects' blood, that didn't translate into any perceivable health benefit.

As a result, the National Institutes of Health's National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute (NHLBI), which funded the research, stopped the study more than a year early. In an accompanying NEJMeditorial, Dr. Robert Giugliano of Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, suggested that, based on the results, it might be time to "retire" niacin, used as a cholesterol reducer."

[hellodolly]

Keep in mind that Niacin is nicotinic acid, and that niacinimide, another form of this B vitamin related chemical, has no demonstrable effect on cholesterol. Currently the American Medical Association does not recommend Niacin because it can damage the liver, and raise glucose levels dangerously. At the dose level required for Niacin to affect cholesterol, it is a "drug," not a "vitamin." If your risk factors for heart disease (which should be assessed by a physician) show your only risk factor is high cholesterol (of the "bad type"), then there is no indication you need a statin.

If you use either statins or niacin without a thorough physical exam, and cardio exam, taking into account family history, lifestyle, etc. from a competent physician you are "playing with fire." http://www.rxlist.com/niaspan-drug.htm

Substantial research indicates change in patterns of diet and exercise can not only raise "good cholesterol," but "lower the bad," and the secondary benefits of such life-style changes (mental vitality, physical strength, aerobic fitness, increasing the strength of the immune systems, and decreasing vulnerability to stress-related dis-orders) are well demonstrated.

Re the large-scale clinical trial of Niacin plus statins:

"The trial, known as AIM-HIGH, followed more than 3,414 patients with cardiovascular disease who had used statin drugs to lower their LDL cholesterol. They then received either a high dose (1,500-2,000 mg) of extended-release niacin (Niaspan) along with their statin drug, or a placebo along with their statin drug for 32 months, at which point the trial was stopped. While the niacin-statin combination therapy increased HDL ("good") cholesterol and lowered the amount of fat in the blood better than the use of a statin-only regimen, it didn't reduce the number of heart attacks, strokes, or hospitalizations for certain other heart problems. And, in fact, according to the study, it actually slightly increased the risk of stroke.In other words, although the addition of niacin further reduced over cholesterol levels, reduced triglycerides, and improved the HDL to LDL ratio in the subjects' blood, that didn't translate into any perceivable health benefit.

As a result, the National Institutes of Health's National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute (NHLBI), which funded the research, stopped the study more than a year early. In an accompanying NEJMeditorial, Dr. Robert Giugliano of Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, suggested that, based on the results, it might be time to "retire" niacin, used as a cholesterol reducer."

"Keep in mind that Niacin is nicotinic acid, and that niacinimide, another form of this B vitamin related chemical, has no demonstrable effect on cholesterol. Currently the American Medical Association does not recommend Niacin because it can damage the liver, and raise glucose levels dangerously. At the dose level required for Niacin to affect cholesterol, it is a "drug," not a "vitamin." If your risk factors for heart disease (which should be assessed by a physician) show your only risk factor is high cholesterol (of the "bad type"), then there is no indication you need a statin."

That dosen't make sense to me first they say it has no effect then they say that it does.

All I know and it fly's right in the face of the AMA is it works for me when Lipotor did not and it has no side effects which Lipotor did. All the other woes they talk about are not present in me I have a appointment every month for blood tests due to my use of Wharfin and the doctor checks all the other functions every three months.

You are over looking that the AMA is made up of Doctor's who are trained to prescribe medicines made by the pharmaceutical companies. Not of Doctor's trained to look at all the possible means to gain recovery.

Edited January 29, 2012 by hellodolly