Road Digging Begins To Save Bangkok From Flooding

[webfact]

BID TO HASTEN WATER FLOW INTO SEA

Road digging begins

Jeerapong Prasertpolkrung,

Tanatpong Kongsai,

Piyanart Srivalo

The Nation

Some roads being excavated so as to prevent flooding of capital; BMA submits 11-point plan to FROC to save capital

Authorities began excavation of a road in Pathum Thani yesterday to speed up water flow into the sea while the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration proposed a 11-point plan for urgent government action to help ease the city's worsening flood problem.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday managed to persuade local communities along Canal 9 in Pathum Thani's Thanya Buri district, to allow excavation of a section of the road that runs parallel with the canal.

The affected section is located somewhere between the east-west Rangsit Canal and Hok Wa Canal on the border with Bangkok.

The water channelling is aimed at speeding up the flow of run-off water into the Hok Wa Canal, and then into the city's Saen Saeb Canal.

Yingluck thanked the residents for their "sacrifice" and promised them "full compensation".

"Thank you everyone for your sacrifice. If we wait until the watergates [north of Bangkok] are damaged, water will burst into Bangkok. Foreigners will lose their confidence in us due to our failure to protect our capital city," she said in hoarse voice.

"To any person affected, I assure full compensation," she added.

The prime minister said it was necessary to take the decisive action in order to prevent the capital from being severely flooded.

Excavation of the road was expected to be completed last night, according to Yingluck, who earlier took a helicopter ride to inspect flooded areas in Nonthaburi, Bangkok, and Pathum Thani along with senior officials.

Meanwhile, Transport Minister Sukampol Suwannathat said yesterday that there would be no excavation of roads in eastern Bangkok, as had been proposed by a group of engineers as a way to help with the movement of flood water into the sea.

He said instead, canals in the areas would be dredged to help speed up the water movement.

The proposal earlier called for Pracha Ruamjai, Rat Uthit, Suwinthawong, Ruam Patthana, and Nimit Mai roads to be cut through in order to allow better flow of water.

The transport minister also said there was no need to cut through Bang Na-Trat Road and the Motorway, which links Bangkok and the eastern seaboard provinces, as had been suggested by some experts.

Meanwhile, the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration submitted its 11-point proposal in writing to the government's Flood Relief Operations Centre (FROC), calling for urgent decision.

The proposal called on the government to order the Royal Irrigation Department, which is overseen by a minister from the coalition Chart Thai Pattana Party, to ensure all the working pumps at the key sluice gates at Canal 13 and Nong Chok be switched on to help with the movement of water towards the sea.

The BMA also called for the opening of watergates in canals between Ayutthaya and Pathum Thani in order to reduce and divert the water pressure from Rapipat Canal 1 above Bangkok, and to keep the sluice gate at Rangsit Canal 1 closed to prevent more water flowing into the city.

The government was also urged to order urgent repair of the damaged sluice gates, which are important to protect Bangkok from severe flooding.

There were no reports about the government response to the BMA proposal.

-- The Nation 2011-10-29

[bluebluewater]

This has all the earmarks of another act of desperation.

"We don't have any idea of what to do so we are going to do something even if it makes no sense at all".

The only thing this does not have at yet is the blessing of the Science Minister.

The funny thing is that it might actually make some sense to do this but I would make a small wager that no one has actually put pen to paper and done some real math calculations or studied a topography map to see if it does.

[sjjmmi]

Amazing Thailand

We have 5 plants here and 4 are under water

This has all the earmarks of another act of desperation.

"We don't have any idea of what to do so we are going to do something even if it makes no sense at all".

The only thing this does not have at yet is the blessing of the Science Minister.

The funny thing is that it might actually make some sense to do this but I would make a small wager that no one has actually put pen to paper and done some real math calculations or studied a topography map to see if it does.

[tominbkk]

Isn't the Hok Wa Canal already bursting at the seams? Why put even more water in it at this point, or am I missing something?

[Buchholz]

More confusion.

Yesterday, the Transportation Minister said they would not dig roads.

This morning the other paper is reporting that government scrapped the idea to dig roads.

....

and yet, roads are being dug.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Buchholz

[Crossy]

Crazy isn't it ^^^, seems that only roads in the east of the city won't be dug.

What would be really useful to all would be maps showing where the cuts are taking place, or are they scared that those affected will try to save their homes and property? I for one don't believe a word of the 'full compensation' statement.

[Buchholz]

Crazy isn't it ^^^, seems that only roads in the east of the city won't be dug.

What would be really useful to all would be maps showing where the cuts are taking place, or are they scared that those affected will try to save their homes and property? I for one don't believe a word of the 'full compensation' statement.

Ah, interesting about the east side of the city. The other paper's article (which has a map btw). Reportedly the east of the city was allegedly spared the digging after PTP MP's connected with the Red Shirts sought to protect the eastern areas as they are considered Red Shirt zones.

[rogerdee123]

Crazy isn't it ^^^, seems that only roads in the east of the city won't be dug.

What would be really useful to all would be maps showing where the cuts are taking place, or are they scared that those affected will try to save their homes and property? I for one don't believe a word of the 'full compensation' statement.

"Full Compensation" probably means 10k baht instead of 5k baht.

[BKKdreaming]

if there is only sand and dirt under the road when the water flows it will take the sand / dirt away and make the hole wider , plus damage the road base....

But I am sure they thought of that

BK

[siampolee]

Foreigners will lose their confidence in us due to our failure to protect our capital city," she said in hoarse voice.

So from that remark it would seem as if the welfare of the locals is of no importance compared to what, "foreigners" may think or see what is happening ?

Indeed it is so nice that now in her and her governments desperation they seem to be trying to shift blame for their inaction in the past which have led to the current actions onto the , " dreaded foreigners."

Edited October 29, 2011 by siampolee

[Buchholz]

Foreigners will lose their confidence in us due to our failure to protect our capital city," she said in hoarse voice.

So from that remark it would seem as if the welfare of the locals is of no importance compared to what, "foreigners" may think or see what is happening ?

Indeed it is so nice that now in her and her governments desperation they seem to be trying to shift blame for their inaction in the past which have led to the current actions onto the , " dreaded foreigners."

One might think foreign confidence has already been shattered by the hundreds (or is it thousands now) foreign factories that are not in Bangkok and have been ruined.

.

Edited October 29, 2011 by Buchholz

[lujanit]

Foreigners will lose their confidence in us due to our failure to protect our capital city," she said in hoarse voice.

So from that remark it would seem as if the welfare of the locals is of no importance compared to what, "foreigners" may think or see what is happening ?

Indeed it is so nice that now in her and her governments desperation they seem to be trying to shift blame for their inaction in the past which have led to the current actions onto the , " dreaded foreigners."

She actually thinks foreigners still have confidence in her government? This government is not fit to run a street noodle shop let alone a country. Remember this. All they are thinking about is getting their filthy hands on the reconstruction budget. Watch that disappear faster than Thaksin did after his conviction for fraud.

[MoonRiverOasis]

Meanwhile, Transport Minister Sukampol Suwannathat said yesterday that there would be no excavation of roads in eastern Bangkok, as had been proposed by a group of engineers as a way to help with the movement of flood water into the sea.

The transport minister also said there was no need to cut through Bang Na-Trat Road and the Motorway, which links Bangkok and the eastern seaboard provinces, as had been suggested by some experts

Well, I'm sure Mr Transport Minister is far more qualified at making these decisions than the team of engineers Toyota Motor Company graciously put on the task, that came up with those solutions.

[jonclark]

Foreigners will lose their confidence in us due to our failure to protect our capital city," she said in hoarse voice.

So from that remark it would seem as if the welfare of the locals is of no importance compared to what, "foreigners" may think or see what is happening ?

Indeed it is so nice that now in her and her governments desperation they seem to be trying to shift blame for their inaction in the past which have led to the current actions onto the , " dreaded foreigners."

Bit of a strange quote from the PM. Surely she and her party should be more concerned with both the welfare of her people and the perceived lack of confidence many of the electorate have in her and her party now.

I think most foreign companies know about and put up with the problems of doing business here and account for it when they start up. Maybe they'll relocate after, but remember that both Cambodia (PP underwater, 300 dead) and significant parts of Vietnam have also suffered from serious floods and inundation,so the same problems with water management abound in the whole region.

Edited October 29, 2011 by jonclark

[MunterHunter]

Wasnt this the suggestion from the Japanese 'experts' that were flown in a few days ago? All things considered i have more faith in these experts than i do the government

[Credo]

Foreigners will lose their confidence in us due to our failure to protect our capital city," she said in hoarse voice.

So from that remark it would seem as if the welfare of the locals is of no importance compared to what, "foreigners" may think or see what is happening ?

Indeed it is so nice that now in her and her governments desperation they seem to be trying to shift blame for their inaction in the past which have led to the current actions onto the , " dreaded foreigners."

It's called face and all Thais can relate to losing face.

[DizietSma]

From comments left by a spectator to this, at another source:

"They just tried this at Klong 9 Rangsit and it failed miserably. After knocking down the flood barrier, NO water drained out of the main Klong. I guess engineering cannot tell that the Klong is lower elevation than the street? Does water drain uphill? It was such a comedy of screw ups watching this. 200 local villagers came out screaming because they were not notified by the government this was going to happen. I felt sorry for the one Thai engineer in charge as he knew it wouldn't work but had to follow orders while getting yelled at by 200 people. All it did was created a huge muddy mess and destroy a new playground that was just installed."

Water doesn't flow uphill? Who'd have thunk it?

[MaxYakov]

Meanwhile, Transport Minister Sukampol Suwannathat said yesterday that there would be no excavation of roads in eastern Bangkok, as had been proposed by a group of engineers as a way to help with the movement of flood water into the sea.

The transport minister also said there was no need to cut through Bang Na-Trat Road and the Motorway, which links Bangkok and the eastern seaboard provinces, as had been suggested by some experts

Well, I'm sure Mr Transport Minister is far more qualified at making these decisions than the team of engineers Toyota Motor Company graciously put on the task, that came up with those solutions.

Sure. According to the Wiki Cabinet of Thailand he is an Air Chief Marshal (ACM). Good luck finding out much else about Mr. Sukampol Suwannatha's background/experience. There's not a Wiki entry under his name.

[kurnell]

Reckon they need to drop a tug boat into the canal, then the water will flow uphill. This is pure physics

[Credo]

The problem with this scheme is that it takes very careful planning and implementation. Engineers are people who work with precision. They need maps, elevations, types of soil and a lot of other data. They are not the best people to deal with a looming disaster. They are the ones to prevent a disaster.

That said, however, they are worth listening to. I will be fleeing the city, however, when I hear Yingluck is reading Thaivisa for ideas!

[mallyrd]

if there is only sand and dirt under the road when the water flows it will take the sand / dirt away and make the hole wider , plus damage the road base....

But I am sure they thought of that

BK

If they are digging up the road then there won't be any road base to damage will there?

[siampolee]

I will be fleeing the city, however, when I hear Yingluck is reading Thaivisa for ideas!

No doubt she will be reading this esteemed forum for information as to which way her escape route would be. No excavated roads or traffic jams that would impede the landing ability of her helicopter and as to where suitable accommodation for someone of her standing can be found.

[GentlemanJim]

The problem with this scheme is that it takes very careful planning and implementation. Engineers are people who work with precision. They need maps, elevations, types of soil and a lot of other data. They are not the best people to deal with a looming disaster. They are the ones to prevent a disaster.

That said, however, they are worth listening to. I will be fleeing the city, however, when I hear Yingluck is reading Thaivisa for ideas!

A fair point. The main issue for the Government here is that they are being reactionary instead of pro-active. As soon as someone comes up with a new idea they seem to implement it without the slightest bit of analysis or even testing (on paper) the potential solution to see if it will actually work.. A strategy like this is always going to end in tears. As has already been said on here by BKKdreaming, if the road foundations are as poor as we all suspect and they are dug up then the water will wash out all the foundations horizontally and further parts of the road or near bye buildings will collapse. I hope they don't do this road digging near any tall buildings!

Edited October 29, 2011 by GentlemanJim

[Thai at Heart]

"To any person affected, I assure full compensation," she added.

Seems there is massive elephant in the corner, and no one noticed.

[Justaword]

Foreigners will lose their confidence in us due to our failure to protect our capital city," she said in hoarse voice.

So from that remark it would seem as if the welfare of the locals is of no importance compared to what, "foreigners" may think or see what is happening ?

Indeed it is so nice that now in her and her governments desperation they seem to be trying to shift blame for their inaction in the past which have led to the current actions onto the , " dreaded foreigners."

Or maybe the welfare of the locals is of no importance compared to Toyota interests. Somebody in another thread suggested that the road cuts proposed by Toyota are aimed at diverting the water from Chachongsao area, where they have two plants. Would be very interesting if somebody with a clue could have a look at the maps and confirm this.....Interesting that the government disregards most of the advices of the BMA and the Royal Department of Irrigation, which both have a long experience of flood management (good or bad is not even the point), but jumps instantly on the Japanese idea....

[Thai at Heart]

Foreigners will lose their confidence in us due to our failure to protect our capital city," she said in hoarse voice.

So from that remark it would seem as if the welfare of the locals is of no importance compared to what, "foreigners" may think or see what is happening ?

Indeed it is so nice that now in her and her governments desperation they seem to be trying to shift blame for their inaction in the past which have led to the current actions onto the , " dreaded foreigners."

Or maybe the welfare of the locals is of no importance compared to Toyota interests. Somebody in another thread suggested that the road cuts proposed by Toyota are aimed at diverting the water from Chachongsao area, where they have two plants. Would be very interesting if somebody with a clue could have a look at the maps and confirm this.....Interesting that the government disregards most of the advices of the BMA and the Royal Department of Irrigation, which both have a long experience of flood management (good or bad is not even the point), but jumps instantly on the Japanese idea....

The real fact may well be, that in terms of natural disasters the Japanese do have long, extensive and recent history. Plan for the worst, hope for the best doesn't translate well here. You are right though, it is interesting that they jump at the first sign of foreign advice.

I am always very wary of the statement "Up to you". It really means, if this is a screw up, it is your fault. That phrase alone is to coin a phrase the ultimate "condom on the prick of progress", because it causes instant paralysis in decision making.

[jimbeam1]

I will be fleeing the city, however, when I hear Yingluck is reading Thaivisa for ideas!

No doubt she will be reading this esteemed forum for information as to which way her escape route would be. No excavated roads or traffic jams that would impede the landing ability of her helicopter and as to where suitable accommodation for someone of her standing can be found.

I hear that they are moving residents from the Hilton?

jb1

[metisdead]

An insulting post has been removed.

[Justaword]

Foreigners will lose their confidence in us due to our failure to protect our capital city," she said in hoarse voice.

So from that remark it would seem as if the welfare of the locals is of no importance compared to what, "foreigners" may think or see what is happening ?

Indeed it is so nice that now in her and her governments desperation they seem to be trying to shift blame for their inaction in the past which have led to the current actions onto the , " dreaded foreigners."

Or maybe the welfare of the locals is of no importance compared to Toyota interests. Somebody in another thread suggested that the road cuts proposed by Toyota are aimed at diverting the water from Chachongsao area, where they have two plants. Would be very interesting if somebody with a clue could have a look at the maps and confirm this.....Interesting that the government disregards most of the advices of the BMA and the Royal Department of Irrigation, which both have a long experience of flood management (good or bad is not even the point), but jumps instantly on the Japanese idea....

The real fact may well be, that in terms of natural disasters the Japanese do have long, extensive and recent history. Plan for the worst, hope for the best doesn't translate well here. You are right though, it is interesting that they jump at the first sign of foreign advice.

I am always very wary of the statement "Up to you". It really means, if this is a screw up, it is your fault. That phrase alone is to coin a phrase the ultimate "condom on the prick of progress", because it causes instant paralysis in decision making.

At least they didn't execute the whole plan, but just "tried" on one road. As somebody mentioned earlier, no, water doesn't flow uphill, so of course nothing happened. In the same way that nothing happens if you have 2 taps on a pipe and open only one. But at least they can say "Thanks for your plan, unfortunately it doesn't work." No screw up, and face saved. Just a theory....

[FarangBuddha]

Amazing Thailand

We have 5 plants here and 4 are under water

Next time, don't site your plants on a flood-plain