Qantas Grounds Entire Fleet In 'Unbelievable' Step

[xen]

I'm sitting in OZ at the moment, waiting anxiously to fly back with my family to our very damp home to help our relatives suffering in Thailand. We've been booked and paid on Qantas for a few months now, worrying about floods, watching the inaction of management, and listening to unions threaten the flying public that they intend to hold us to ransom. Now it looks as if their unresolved issues and managements inability to fix the problems, may cost us more money and to force us to change or delay our trip. My family and I fly Qantas 70% of the time, but have flown many times with various carriers. Service and price have always been on par with other similar airlines so I don't understand what the debate is on that score. Whenever we have prepared to travel, Qantas have been competitively priced and offered the more convenient flights on the dates we've wanted. I don't really care what seat I'm in, what the hostess looks like or what food and beer I'm handed, the current situation however, will probably result in us not flying with them again..... I don't want to give them any more of my cash as nobody at Qantas is particularly interested in the needs of the people that pay ALL of their salaries. The management, unions and their members are forgetting that the paying customers are the ones in the end, that dictate to them.

A couple of our friends work for Qantas and are really p_issed off with the situation. They say they are not in agreeance with the unions and reckon the strike action is based on excessive demands. They claim that Qantas employees already receive far better pay and conditions than the staff employed to do identical jobs by the other airlnes operating in Australia.

Given the cost of operating their business, the airline (through neccessity) will undoubtably be looking at moving many of it's services offshore but they will still need many people on the ground in Australia. Happily, the ones left at Qantas will not be the union members who's actions have caused the total grounding of the fleet.....it is likely they are going to be in the dole queue or doing similar jobs for less money, as they deserve to be. Unfortunately the a_shole CEO, and management who've just payed themselves millions more for doing little at all will eventually move on without a thought for the mess they've left in their wake.

I also know people who work for Qantas and they are in middle management thru to front line work and most i have talked to support the union stance , not so much the wage claims , but the fact the current management is at war with their employees on many different fronts , with the main concern is the outsourcing of their jobs to Asia and the consquental loss of conditions.

Why does Virgin have a relatively good relationship with their workforce is due to many things but I understand most Virgin Workers are paid less than Qantas employees but have better conditions, but most of all a lot more respect from the upper management. I remember reading a quote once from Richard Branson and basically he said something about putting his employees first and making them happy so as a result his customers will be happy . Two different Management styles and we can see the results now.

Edited October 30, 2011 by xen

[johna]

If Qantas goes the same route as its American counterparts you'll have Australian air crews on income support.

I know you have all heard about occupy wall street, but with your union bashing you obviously haven't got a clue what its all about.

My link

[shunima]

I'm sitting in OZ at the moment, waiting anxiously to fly back with my family to our very damp home to help our relatives suffering in Thailand. We've been booked and paid on Qantas for a few months now, worrying about floods, watching the inaction of management, and listening to unions threaten the flying public that they intend to hold us to ransom. Now it looks as if their unresolved issues and managements inability to fix the problems, may cost us more money and to force us to change or delay our trip. My family and I fly Qantas 70% of the time, but have flown many times with various carriers. Service and price have always been on par with other similar airlines so I don't understand what the debate is on that score. Whenever we have prepared to travel, Qantas have been competitively priced and offered the more convenient flights on the dates we've wanted. I don't really care what seat I'm in, what the hostess looks like or what food and beer I'm handed, the current situation however, will probably result in us not flying with them again..... I don't want to give them any more of my cash as nobody at Qantas is particularly interested in the needs of the people that pay ALL of their salaries. The management, unions and their members are forgetting that the paying customers are the ones in the end, that dictate to them.

A couple of our friends work for Qantas and are really p_issed off with the situation. They say they are not in agreeance with the unions and reckon the strike action is based on excessive demands. They claim that Qantas employees already receive far better pay and conditions than the staff employed to do identical jobs by the other airlnes operating in Australia.

Given the cost of operating their business, the airline (through neccessity) will undoubtably be looking at moving many of it's services offshore but they will still need many people on the ground in Australia. Happily, the ones left at Qantas will not be the union members who's actions have caused the total grounding of the fleet.....it is likely they are going to be in the dole queue or doing similar jobs for less money, as they deserve to be. Unfortunately the a_shole CEO, and management who've just payed themselves millions more for doing little at all will eventually move on without a thought for the mess they've left in their wake.

I also know people who work for Qantas and they are in middle management thru to front line work and most i have talked to support the union stance , not so much the wage claims , but the fact the current management is at war with their employees on many different fronts , with the main concern is the outsourcing of their jobs to Asia and the consquental loss of conditions.

Why does Virgin have a relatively good relationship with their workforce is due to many things but I understand most Virgin Workers are paid less than Qantas employees but have better conditions, but most of all a lot more respect from the upper management. I remember reading a quote once from Richard Branson and basically he said something about putting his employees first and making them happy so as a result his customers will be happy . Two different Management styles and we can see the results now.

I believe that the problem is not between the workforce and the management but between the union (representing the workforce) and the management. I worked in two bigger companies with strong union representation and in both cases the union f#@ked it up with unreasonable demands. They forced the management to more drastic measures than necessary and the workforce interpreted these actions as actions against them.

The whole union system is outdated. It's all about securing social achievements and wealth of employees. Nothing wrong with that in general but we have to accept that we live in a globalized world. And the same union leaders that blare the loudest about unfair distribution of wealth have no problem with the production of goods in developing countries under less than acceptable conditions and only because these low priced items allow them to keep up the high living standard they have. You could consider such behavior as nationalistic and/or racist.

I do understand that anybody is keen to keep a well paid job but I also understand that somebody else should have the chance to get a well paid job if he/she can offer the same service for a better price. The day will come all of us have to accept that we will have to share our wealth with the people in countries on the rise.

[cdnvic]

One post deleted for being rude towards women. Airline cabin crew and strippers fill two very different job descriptions and it's time some of the juveniles out there learned to tell the two apart.

[geriatrickid]

I'm sitting in OZ at the moment, waiting anxiously to fly back with my family to our very damp home to help our relatives suffering in Thailand. We've been booked and paid on Qantas for a few months now, worrying about floods, watching the inaction of management, and listening to unions threaten the flying public that they intend to hold us to ransom. Now it looks as if their unresolved issues and managements inability to fix the problems, may cost us more money and to force us to change or delay our trip. My family and I fly Qantas 70% of the time, but have flown many times with various carriers. Service and price have always been on par with other similar airlines so I don't understand what the debate is on that score. Whenever we have prepared to travel, Qantas have been competitively priced and offered the more convenient flights on the dates we've wanted. I don't really care what seat I'm in, what the hostess looks like or what food and beer I'm handed, the current situation however, will probably result in us not flying with them again..... I don't want to give them any more of my cash as nobody at Qantas is particularly interested in the needs of the people that pay ALL of their salaries. The management, unions and their members are forgetting that the paying customers are the ones in the end, that dictate to them.

A couple of our friends work for Qantas and are really p_issed off with the situation. They say they are not in agreeance with the unions and reckon the strike action is based on excessive demands. They claim that Qantas employees already receive far better pay and conditions than the staff employed to do identical jobs by the other airlnes operating in Australia.

Given the cost of operating their business, the airline (through neccessity) will undoubtably be looking at moving many of it's services offshore but they will still need many people on the ground in Australia. Happily, the ones left at Qantas will not be the union members who's actions have caused the total grounding of the fleet.....it is likely they are going to be in the dole queue or doing similar jobs for less money, as they deserve to be. Unfortunately the a_shole CEO, and management who've just payed themselves millions more for doing little at all will eventually move on without a thought for the mess they've left in their wake.

I also know people who work for Qantas and they are in middle management thru to front line work and most i have talked to support the union stance , not so much the wage claims , but the fact the current management is at war with their employees on many different fronts , with the main concern is the outsourcing of their jobs to Asia and the consquental loss of conditions.

Why does Virgin have a relatively good relationship with their workforce is due to many things but I understand most Virgin Workers are paid less than Qantas employees but have better conditions, but most of all a lot more respect from the upper management. I remember reading a quote once from Richard Branson and basically he said something about putting his employees first and making them happy so as a result his customers will be happy . Two different Management styles and we can see the results now.

The asian hiring is not so much outsourcing as it is a response to a growing market. As the future Pax loads are expected to come from Asian countries it makes business sense to have service hubs in those markets. Do you think its fair that if asians are paying for tickets and supporting a commercial enterprise, that the enterprise doesn't invest back in the market that supports it? There is a false assumption that foreign investment is "outsourcing" when it is in fact fair and ethical to share the wealth. I suppose that some feel that "australians" should be given preferred treatement even though it is the asian cuustomer that represents the growing profitable market segment.

[chooka]

I think those blaming the unions for the fleet being grounded and many 1000's of people being stranded around the world are the same people who blame the redshirts for all Thailands woes. People with blinkers chanting bla bla bla I am not listening don't want to hear it when people try to point out the blantantly obvious to them. Repeat after me, "The UNIONS DID NOT GROUND THE AIRLINE it was management" Now write that out a 1'000 times until it sinks in. The unions have had a total of 6 hours of stop work meetings over the last 6 months which caused very minor disruptions and flight delays. The disruptions of the unions did not even appear on the radar compared to the industrial actions that management have imposed. What of the employees who are not involved in the unions who have been locked out without pay, What of the hundreds of Thai employees effected by managements selfish decision to ground and lock everyone out. The thai cabin crews who rely on the mere $7.00 AUD per hour flight time, the aircraft cleaners, caterers and maintenance staff at swampy.

[shunima]

If Qantas goes the same route as its American counterparts you'll have Australian air crews on income support.

I know you have all heard about occupy wall street, but with your union bashing you obviously haven't got a clue what its all about.

My link

Occupy wall street is as useless as tea parties and what else the bright American mind comes up with these days.

[jackr]

The English disease. Many of the union leaders left the UK after the Thatcher era to continue their disruptive practices in Australia.

Ah, the ole 'blame the English'. Is there some French/German/Swiss/Scottish/Irish/Welsh in you, or 'pure' aussie. Look to your own quarter, friend.

[steve187]

The English disease. Many of the union leaders left the UK after the Thatcher era to continue their disruptive practices in Australia.

73 posts before the uk gets trashed, that must be a record.

Qantas have always been too expensive for my travel plans to thailand from the uk, let virgin take over the route.

[Chris Lawrence]

Qantas wants open competition, let them have it; but on one condition. They go to the end of the airports and bring in other carriers that will do the same flights Qantas does or cut their flights back. Qantas would have a contract to fly in Australia, well tear it up and lets start again. Qantas has the right to shop prices, but they got where they are now because of a solid Australian workforce and public. IF Qantas wants to base in Asia, they certainly aren't 100% Australian. So why should they have the benefits of a 100% Australian Company. Do to them as they are doing to us.

I can appreciate that Qantas decision is based on business logic, they can get the same job done but cheaper in another country. But when you start to leave the country the benefits bestowed on Qantas for its support also need to be eroded. I just see that Qantas is also eroding their own benefits that the Government gives it for operating as it does. They get top billing in the airports and their routes are protected. The Government needs to look at this.

Qantas needs to experience the competition in Australia, it wants to dictate to its workforce. The aggression is coming from Qantas not the employees.

Qantas has been a protected species in Australia for a long time.

[hagler]

QANTAS is a dying entity. It cannot continue on its current form. There is no long haul no government supported "full service" airline in the world that is profitable. The rise of the LCC's has seen to that. Unless changes are made then QANTAS will not exist in 5 years time and unless the unionised workforce starts to realise that then they will cause yet another ANSETT bankruptcy ( for those of those who dont know of it google it.)

Baggage handlers ( who are paid on average around $ 93 000 USD a year) have just renegotiated a new enterprise agreement with Virgin Airlines (QANTAS's main competitor) which is 15% less than the one they are seeking with QANTAS. How can QANTAS continue to compete when the unionised labour force doesnt even "play on a level field" ? And this is just on a domestic front. Internationally speaking there is no other airline in the world that has it planes serviced in Australia and it is not because of the quality of work, it is because of the cost. If no other airline in the world wants to have their planes serviced in the country then that should say something to the labourforce. It is only because of an act of parliament that forces QANTAS to have it planes serviced in the county QANTAS even gets it done now because of the costs.

This is VERY smart move on the part of QANTAS as it forces the Fair Work Commission ( a body set up by the current Labour Government which is in turn ruled by the Unions) to make a ruling that will bring a resolution to the current spurious demands by the unionised labour force within the company.

QANTAS had a choice of dying a death by a 1000 cuts over the next 12 months by the unrealistic demands of the unions or to take an action that is so drastic and dramatic that to be forced into it shows how backed into a corner the management was.

I hope for the sake of the airline that the unions get put back into their box. With the current left wing minority government in the country it is unlikely. Sad but true.

Edited October 30, 2011 by hagler

[KeyserSoze01]

If Qantas goes the same route as its American counterparts you'll have Australian air crews on income support.

I know you have all heard about occupy wall street, but with your union bashing you obviously haven't got a clue what its all about.

My link

What many people believe, and the "occupy" folks seem to think, is that corporations have some mandate to employ people. They don't. The top priority of a corporation is to provide return on investment for it's stockholders, not to provide every Tom, Dick and Harry with a job.

[jackdawson]

Baggage handlers ( who are paid on average around $ 93 000 USD a year)

Is this true? That's some sick money. That job should pay, what, $50,000, $55,000 maybe, right?

[David48]

The English disease. Many of the union leaders left the UK after the Thatcher era to continue their disruptive practices in Australia.

I think there is one little thing you missed in the story, just a minor detail and that is that it is not the unions that have grounded the fleet or disrupted services causing kaos it was Qantas and it's management. Over the last 7 month the unions have had a total of 6 hours of industrial action.

George … sorry mate … but your statement of ‘Over the last 7 month the unions have had a total of 6 hours of industrial action’ is so far off the mark to be accounted as a statistical error.

Just one, just one of the stop work actions … September 22, 2011

“Eight flights will be affected Friday as Qantas prepares for a one-hour strike by aircraft maintenance engineers in Melbourne”

ON THE SAME DAY …

“The industrial action comes after about 4000 Qantas baggage handlers and ground staff held four-hour work stoppages at major airports across the country on Tuesday.”

THEN

“He (ALAEA federal secretary Steve Purvinas) said tomorrow's work stoppages would begin at 5pm (AEST), when night crews started arriving for work. He said night shift workers would arrive one hour late to their shifts but day shift employees had offered to work overtime to cover the work stoppages.”

Source:- http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/qantas-flights-hit-amid-more-industrial-action-20110922-1kmxg.html

George, I don’t want to flame you but … that was just one day.

OH, also so you might not think otherwise … the pay rise granted to the CEO Alan Joyce through cash and incentives, given the performance of the Airline is nothing short of perverse.

[chooka]

Baggage handlers ( who are paid on average around $ 93 000 USD a year)

Is this true? That's some sick money. That job should pay, what, $50,000, $55,000 maybe, right?

Why is he using U.S Dollars, Australians get paid in Australian currency and not U.S. Guess it glorifies it a little more. $93,000 U.S = $86,831 AUD so I guess that does not seem as much as hightlighted.

[Langsuan Man]

A very expensive game of Chicken.

And not a small amount of Union breaking in play too.

Reminds me a bit of Reagan firing every single Aircraft Controller on strike in USA.

Yeah, and then they name an Airport after him

Sort of like the Willy Sutton School of Banking or the Khmer Rouge School of Social Graces

[chooka]

A Jetstar email shows Qantas was planning to freeze operations for some time, pilots say.

Qantas decision to freeze all flights and lock out staff from Monday night had been planned for some time.

Jetstar chief executive Bruce Buchanan sent an email to all Jetstar staff on Saturday telling them it was business as usual. But the date on the memo was Wednesday, October 26 and addressed to team leaders, telling them they may be aware Qantas had announced a precautionary grounding of its fleet from 5pm on Saturday

The email also warned of the lock out.

AIPA vice-president Richard Woodward said the memo showed they knew at the Qantas annual general meeting on Friday they would shut down operations.

But Qantas didn't tell shareholders they were planning a move that would cost them millions of dollars.

[Tywais]

Shouldn't this be in world news? Just a thought.

I believe this type of situation below is a sufficient reason it is in Thailand News and also that it goes out to subscribed members via e-mail and World News doesn't:

I'm sitting in OZ at the moment, waiting anxiously to fly back with my family to our very damp home to help our relatives suffering in Thailand. We've been booked and paid on Qantas for a few months now, worrying about floods, watching the inaction of management, and listening to unions threaten the flying public that they intend to hold us to ransom. Now it looks as if their unresolved issues and managements inability to fix the problems, may cost us more money and to force us to change or delay our trip.

[Crushdepth]

Baggage handlers ( who are paid on average around $ 93 000 USD a year)

Is this true? That's some sick money. That job should pay, what, $50,000, $55,000 maybe, right?

Why is he using U.S Dollars, Australians get paid in Australian currency and not U.S. Guess it glorifies it a little more. $93,000 U.S = $86,831 AUD so I guess that does not seem as much as hightlighted.

Nothing to cry about, and way above the average wage. Some of the pilots are on >$500k. Poor fellows.

[Logarhythm]

The Unions can try and destroy the Australian National Airline , just as British Airways staff tried 2 years ago or come to an agreement, Random Strikes suit them , still getting income , but Qantas can have the last word. Either a Job or No Job

The Australian National airline, as you referred to it as, is planning to move many operations offshore. It doesn't sound like it deserves to be called The Australian National airline.

[Logarhythm]

The English disease. Many of the union leaders left the UK after the Thatcher era to continue their disruptive practices in Australia.

I think there is one little thing you missed in the story, just a minor detail and that is that it is not the unions that have grounded the fleet or disrupted services causing kaos it was Qantas and it's management. Over the last 7 month the unions have had a total of 6 hours of industrial action.

Finally a post from someone who doesn't seem to have a union bashing agenda.

Edited October 30, 2011 by Logarhythm

[softgeorge]

The Unions can try and destroy the Australian National Airline , just as British Airways staff tried 2 years ago or come to an agreement, Random Strikes suit them , still getting income , but Qantas can have the last word. Either a Job or No Job

The Australian National airline, as you referred to it as, is planning to move many operations offshore. It doesn't sound like it deserves to be called The Australian National airline.

True. They also use the slogan "The Spirit of Australia." The actions of Qantas are hardly in the Australian Spirit. With thier plans to dump Australia and the Australian people and move off shore there won't be any Australian Spirit left in the airline. They will have to change thier slogan to "The Spirit of Thailand" or "The Spirit of Asia" What right would an Asian based airline have to use the iconic Aussie symbol of the Kangaroo also.

[softgeorge]

Just watching the ABC news on this and certain parties in Qantas could face criminal charges under the Corporation Act for not informing the Australian Stock Exchange and Shareholders of thier plans to ground the airline as it dramatically effects the stockmarket. Apparently it has come to light that was planned well in advance.

[xen]

Baggage handlers ( who are paid on average around $ 93 000 USD a year)

Is this true? That's some sick money. That job should pay, what, $50,000, $55,000 maybe, right?

That is possibly true but that is only if you do a hell of lot of double shifts, or work outside of your regular shifts, OT, working higher grade etc and then, from what i have been told this is only available if you have been a good little boy . Base rate for a baggage handler would be half that amount.

[johna]

If Qantas goes the same route as its American counterparts you'll have Australian air crews on income support.

I know you have all heard about occupy wall street, but with your union bashing you obviously haven't got a clue what its all about.

My link

What many people believe, and the "occupy" folks seem to think, is that corporations have some mandate to employ people. They don't. The top priority of a corporation is to provide return on investment for it's stockholders, not to provide every Tom, Dick and Harry with a job.

and their favorite way to secure those profits is to screw their work force, its guys like me who get their hands dirty who make those profits.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Qantas Pilots and Engineers are amidst the very top in the world for their professionalism. It has taken dozens of years for building such a safety culture.

Everybody remember the A380 incident in the Singapore skies, the maestria of the crew... It was a fantastic demonstration of the Qantas know how.

I have never flown Qantas, but I was flying a Major European Airlines and we were always impressed by Qantas professionalism.

It will be a crime to Safety if this staff is dismantled....

Good Luck to Qantas staff....

[bigbamboo]

Game on.

So the Blessed Margaret did have a love child after all!

[khaan]

Qantas Pilots and Engineers are amidst the very top in the world for their professionalism. It has taken dozens of years for building such a safety culture.

Everybody remember the A380 incident in the Singapore skies, the maestria of the crew... It was a fantastic demonstration of the Qantas know how.

I have never flown Qantas, but I was flying a Major European Airlines and we were always impressed by Qantas professionalism.

It will be a crime to Safety if this staff is dismantled....

Good Luck to Qantas staff....

That is without question. But I have been watching Australian Network 24 last night and today because they are covering this dispute quite extensively

and they have interviewed several people in the airline business. The problem is they say that 75% of people today do not choose

which airline to fly on based on their safety record- they choose solely on the price of the fare.

Yes I can remember three or four incidents when I flew on Qantas where the takeoff was either aborted or where we returned to the airport

after taking off because something ( no matter how minor ) had troubled the pilot. But each time when the pilot announced we would not be departing

he would remind us with his reassuring voice that it was better to do so than not take a risk and that was the Qantas philosophy.

It's very sad because it appears that maintaining those high standards are no longer valued by the flying public.

[zorro1]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8367365/stranded-passengers-pin-hopes-on-qantas-mediato

Good interview with QAN CEO here. Interesting to note he say 97% support for executives at the AGM

He does get a bit dodgy when asked about his 5 mill $ salary. Also interesting to note a nine msn poll shows the public agrees with shut down around 60/40

[smokie36]

This is what happens when you have a full-employment economy as is the case in AU at the moment...it goes to labour's head. Action such as this by management is needed to discipline labour and ensure that no wage-price spiral of inflation is unleashed in the economy.

As soon as a union believes it has a position of power, its usefulness is over. If limits are not place upon unions by any major company (or government), they will bring the company (country) to its knees. Remember the great Arthur Scargill (w***er) and how families were turned against each other. Does the UK have a mining industry now?

Yeah when Scargill became NUM President he had a big union and a small house, in a very short space of time he had a small union and a big house his favorite cry was no member should become an "industrial gypsy " yet as soon as he got the job he moved NUM headquarters from London to Sheffield, all the employees had to become gypsy's or lose their jobs ,What an hypocrite.

All good stuff but you could hardly compare the coalmining industry which was in terminal decline with the aviation industry.