NZ Man Goes On Trial Over Thai Sex Tour

[webfact]

NZ man goes on trial over Thai sex tour

Alastair Bull

An Auckland man organised a tour to Thailand for an undercover policeman which included advice on seeking sex with boys under 18 and an itinerary including places where he could do so, a judge has been told.

The accused man, 47, who cannot be named, told the client where he could pick up boys, motels he could use, and gave him a card which included explicit Thai phrases for picking up boys under 18, the Crown says.

Prosecutor Natalie Walker laid out the accusations on Monday, the first day of the trial in the High Court in Auckland, on charges of organising a child sex tour and of promoting a child sex tour on his website.

Ms Walker said an undercover officer was assigned to approach the accused after an airport search in December 2009 found a thumb drive with photos of the accused with his arm around "teenage-looking males" and a card including Thai phrases of how to ask for specific sexual acts.

The officer, who cannot be named but who used the name "Michael Gray", indicated a preference for "boys without hair", which Ms Walker said meant pre-pubescent males.

Defence lawyer Chris Wilkinson-Smith said the accused made it clear in an email on July 1 last year that he did not want to assist "Mr Gray" to do anything illegal.

Ms Walker said the accused subsequently "came up with suggestion after suggestion to help fulfil Mr Gray's desires".

The accused's website offered guided tours of Thailand "catering to your interests and desires" (the word your in italics), which Ms Walker said was a suggested and coded reference to unlawful sexual activity.

The website's metadata - keywords not on the viewable pages but which were behind the website - included "gay", "gay sex", and "boy", she said.

Mr Wilkinson-Smith said the viewable website pages never promoted anything illegal, and that the term "boy" in Thailand could refer to people 18 and over.

The trial before Justice Edwin Wylie alone is expected to take two weeks.

Source: http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/nz-man-goes-on-trial-over-thai-sex-tour-20111031-1mr3s.html

-- news.smh.com.au 2011-10-31

[weescotsguy66]

Let's us hope he meets some real men in prison who knows how to deal with perverts!!!!

[bonobo]

The US aggressively prosecutes its citizens who obtain underage sex overseas. It is good to see New Zealand taking a stance, too.

I would be curious to know how many nations do pursue this when the crime was not committed on that nation's soil.

I have watched a number of shows on tv about the pursuit of underage sex, and most mention that Thailand has largely cleaned up its act in this area, pushing the crime to Cambodia and other areas. However, as the arrests here prove, the problem is not totally eradicated.

[mahtin]

When in Germany I saw a tv documentary about the pursuit of underage sex in Thailand.

Subsequently at least one perp was id'ed and prosecuted in the homeland.

[someoneelse]

It's been well established that most men seeking boys for sex do not identify as gay. This is about child sex, not gay sex.

*reply to deleted post edited out*

Edited October 31, 2011 by Scott
reply to deleted quote edited out

[ARGUSEYE]

-quote-:

Ms Walker said an undercover officer was assigned to approach the accused after an airport search in December 2009 found a thumb drive with photos of the accused with his arm around "teenage-looking males" and a card including Thai phrases of how to ask for specific sexual acts."

-unquote-

Jesus... I must have hundreds of pictures with my arm around "teenage - looking" girls..... And if they also find some naughty phrases scribbled by just those "teenage - looking" girls, that is enough to have a special agent on my heels who tries at all costs, using all means to prove that I am a criminal pedophile??

I'm on my knees, thank God, I'm not a NZ citizen!!!

[scotto]

Sick bastards i think abit of good old fashioned Thai justice would do the job here.

In Australia when you go back if they search you on arrival they also look at your camera and mobile phone

laptop as well looking for this sick perverted stuff.

they are right onto it and good job too!!!

Take all these sick bastards out of society i say.

[leemac]

-quote-:

Ms Walker said an undercover officer was assigned to approach the accused after an airport search in December 2009 found a thumb drive with photos of the accused with his arm around "teenage-looking males" and a card including Thai phrases of how to ask for specific sexual acts."

-unquote-

Jesus... I must have hundreds of pictures with my arm around "teenage - looking" girls..... And if they also find some naughty phrases scribbled by just those "teenage - looking" girls, that is enough to have a special agent on my heels who tries at all costs, using all means to prove that I am a criminal pedophile??

I'm on my knees, thank God, I'm not a NZ citizen!!!

Gotta agree. I don't see him doing anything clearly illegal. Dodgy, borderline, but did he arrange a sex tour with underage children or give "pickup" advice to a customer looking to buy a travel package to a well known "red-light" nation?

I don't see any actual laws being broken by the guy getting done here. In fact, they could have used him to set-up actual pedos by booking them tours and giving details to the police.

[humonster]

The meta data of a website used for traffic purposes.

[ThaiSold]

That's Entrapment and I hope the guy gets off! The cops probably offered the dude a bunch of money and he couldn't resist it even at the guys website doesn't promote anything child sex *commercial link edited out*

I feel sorry for him and his family, the police must have nothing better to do.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Scott
Commercial link edited out

[bonobo]

*Deleted quote edited out*

This is about a crime, not about a sexual orientation. If a woman robs a bank here, would a thread about that go into the women's forum? Is it only appropriate for threads in which crimes are committed by straight men to go into the General forum?

Edited October 31, 2011 by Scott
reply to deleted quote edited out

[wolfhead]

Don't worry folks. He will get deal with. They will first send him to Mt Eden then up to Paremoremo. Maxi Jail. When I go to Thailand I make sure they are legal age.

[Beetlejuice]

*Deleted quote edited out*

That’s not true.

A child is a child, no matter whether they are boys or girls.

These scum are nasty, vermin and child rapists. Like all vermin, should be eradicated from society.

The accused's website offered guided tours of Thailand "catering to your interests and desires" (the word your in italics), which Ms Walker said was a suggested and coded reference to unlawful sexual activity.

Well, ya learn something everyday. Now the sickos have created their own language.

Imagine someone taking all that trouble to create a tour for the raping of children? Have low can a human sink?

Edited October 31, 2011 by Scott
reply to deleted quote edited out

[Orac]

That's Entrapment and I hope the guy gets off! The cops probably offered the dude a bunch of money and he couldn't resist it even at the guys website doesn't promote anything child sex *edited out*

I feel sorry for him and his family, the police must have nothing better to do.

If this is the website in question I can see no evidence at all of 'promoting a child sex tour on his website' which he has been accused of.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Scott
Commercial link edited out

[elektrified]

The US aggressively prosecutes its citizens who obtain underage sex overseas. It is good to see New Zealand taking a stance, too.

I would be curious to know how many nations do pursue this when the crime was not committed on that nation's soil.

I have watched a number of shows on tv about the pursuit of underage sex, and most mention that Thailand has largely cleaned up its act in this area, pushing the crime to Cambodia and other areas. However, as the arrests here prove, the problem is not totally eradicated.

I saw a documentary which indicated that the governments of U.K., Australia, and Germany are 3 countries pursuing cases of sex crimes committed in other countries. They profiled a big, fat, German doctor who was having sex with little girls in Southeast Asia and he was nabbed as he exited the airplane upon his return to Germany. German television filmed his arrest. I think Canada may have been another country they mentioned who was prosecuting crimes committed overseas, but I'm not 100% sure about that one.

[Shurup]

I\m sure Canada is on a list as well as the US.

[Abduljabbar01]

*deleted quote edited out*

Should just ban any topic have to deal with Pedo / Gay / Straight, etc topics from the press. Let's be politically correct, good christian men and women. Just deny underaged sex goes on in Thailand.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Scott
reply to deleted quote edited out

[phuketrichard]

u look at the website and i see nothing about promoting sex on it. look at the Itinerary page!!

To quote the OP,"The website's metadata - keywords not on the viewable pages but which were behind the website - included "gay", "gay sex", and "boy", she said."

You are telling me the website is not gay?

Only thing in the meta data is this ONE word gay, so what, gay people are a huge source of revenue for travel agents

meta name="keywords" content="travel, Thailand, family tour, get-together, Gay, thailand, tour, 7 day, Pattaya, Bangkok, travel, beach, fun, island, business" />

<meta name="description" content="7 Day personally escorted tours of Bangkok and Pattaya for individuals and small groups" />

The site is not even close to a gay site!!

The undercover gent asked how to and the guy is a travel agent and in business to make money.

Clear case of entrapment!!!

Edited October 31, 2011 by phuketrichard

[minikev]

How does she know writing Your in italics makes it anything other than more personal. There is a possibility this guy was just set up.

[bonobo]

The US aggressively prosecutes its citizens who obtain underage sex overseas. It is good to see New Zealand taking a stance, too.

I would be curious to know how many nations do pursue this when the crime was not committed on that nation's soil.

I have watched a number of shows on tv about the pursuit of underage sex, and most mention that Thailand has largely cleaned up its act in this area, pushing the crime to Cambodia and other areas. However, as the arrests here prove, the problem is not totally eradicated.

I saw a documentary which indicated that the governments of U.K., Australia, and Germany are 3 countries pursuing cases of sex crimes committed in other countries. They profiled a big, fat, German doctor who was having sex with little girls in Southeast Asia and he was nabbed as he exited the airplane upon his return to Germany. German television filmed his arrest. I think Canada may have been another country they mentioned who was prosecuting crimes committed overseas, but I'm not 100% sure about that one.

It is good to see more nations are doing it as well. And an odd coincidence: in the documentary I saw about Cambodia, they nabbed an American doctor. They arrested him at his hospital in Guam. I know two doctors arrested don't make a trend, but still, an interesting coincidence.

There is a show in the US where they catch pedophiles there, and among the criminals were doctors, policemen, lawyers, military men, and such showing that this crime knows no boundaries as far as how "upstanding" the criminals seem to be.

[luckizuchinni]

As far as 'entrapment," who cares?" The sex tour thing was obviously an investigation to see if they guy was in Thailand to have sex with underage boys. It seems pretty clear that he was. That is the real crime here. And if it takes a sting about a sex tour, well, I can live with that.

The guy is a pervert, sex tour entrapment part of it or not.

[Stjohnm]

The US aggressively prosecutes its citizens who obtain underage sex overseas. It is good to see New Zealand taking a stance, too.

I would be curious to know how many nations do pursue this when the crime was not committed on that nation's soil.

I have watched a number of shows on tv about the pursuit of underage sex, and most mention that Thailand has largely cleaned up its act in this area, pushing the crime to Cambodia and other areas. However, as the arrests here prove, the problem is not totally eradicated.

The UK certainly does, there have been plenty of stories in British Newspapers of arrests and trials at home for crimes perpetrated on foreign soil (including, paedophiles). If I'm not mistaken so do all the EU countries.

[ARGUSEYE]

Thanks for the link, ThaiSold.

And indeed, in the phrase "We cater for your needs", the your is written italic. Very, very suspicious!

First I was on my knees, thanking the Lord for being NOT a Kiwie, now I'm on my back, laughing at this woman prosecutor.

She can't be serious!!!

[mahtin]

As far as 'entrapment," who cares?" The sex tour thing was obviously an investigation to see if they guy was in Thailand to have sex with underage boys. It seems pretty clear that he was. That is the real crime here. And if it takes a sting about a sex tour, well, I can live with that.

The guy is a pervert, sex tour entrapment part of it or not.

I'd say the real crime here is making children available to sick people.

[Orac]

As far as 'entrapment," who cares?" The sex tour thing was obviously an investigation to see if they guy was in Thailand to have sex with underage boys. It seems pretty clear that he was. That is the real crime here. And if it takes a sting about a sex tour, well, I can live with that.

The guy is a pervert, sex tour entrapment part of it or not.

So you are judging him guilty of something he isn't being accused of????

[luckizuchinni]

As far as 'entrapment," who cares?" The sex tour thing was obviously an investigation to see if they guy was in Thailand to have sex with underage boys. It seems pretty clear that he was. That is the real crime here. And if it takes a sting about a sex tour, well, I can live with that.

The guy is a pervert, sex tour entrapment part of it or not.

I'd say the real crime here is making children available to sick people.

Agree. But from what I read, i didn't see that he actually did it, only offered. If he has done it before, then certainly.

[technologybytes]

I know nothing about the legal system in NZ, but if the police thought he had photographs of him with his arm around underage boys it may have been prudent to first establish if the boys are actually underage. I would imagine it's easy enough to find out where he stayed and it should not be too difficult to track down the boys in question and establish if they are underage and if so then if he committed an offense with those boys. (as it's certainly not illegal to have your arm around a boy of any age).

I have no time for pedophiles, however I am concerned at how the police are prepared to entrap someone for a minor offense (ie offereing services from NZ via a website ) compared to the much more serious offense of sexual contact with underage boys if that happened, and in all probability they spent a great deal of time and effort trying (and presumably failing) to establish a substantive offense and are now trying to justify that expense by following up this offense which surely cannot result in the same penalty as is he was proven to have actually had illegal sexual contact.

I would have thought that anyone with something to hide would know better than to carry incriminating evidence through customs there days, perhaps he had nothing to hide and the photos were innocent.

Also, I agree that this is a criminal news story and not a "gay" story. I'm not gay, but I cringe then I hear people suggest that gay men are more likely to be pedophiles, I'm sure that's not true.

[luckizuchinni]

As far as 'entrapment," who cares?" The sex tour thing was obviously an investigation to see if they guy was in Thailand to have sex with underage boys. It seems pretty clear that he was. That is the real crime here. And if it takes a sting about a sex tour, well, I can live with that.

The guy is a pervert, sex tour entrapment part of it or not.

So you are judging him guilty of something he isn't being accused of????

Yep. You see, I am not a jury nor judge. I can take a look at circumstances and make my own decisions. Based on what I read, I would bet dollars to doughnuts that he had sex with underage boys in Thailand.

[saxpirant]

-quote-:

Ms Walker said an undercover officer was assigned to approach the accused after an airport search in December 2009 found a thumb drive with photos of the accused with his arm around "teenage-looking males" and a card including Thai phrases of how to ask for specific sexual acts."

-unquote-

Jesus... I must have hundreds of pictures with my arm around "teenage - looking" girls..... And if they also find some naughty phrases scribbled by just those "teenage - looking" girls, that is enough to have a special agent on my heels who tries at all costs, using all means to prove that I am a criminal pedophile??

I'm on my knees, thank God, I'm not a NZ citizen!!!

Gotta agree. I don't see him doing anything clearly illegal. Dodgy, borderline, but did he arrange a sex tour with underage children or give "pickup" advice to a customer looking to buy a travel package to a well known "red-light" nation?

I don't see any actual laws being broken by the guy getting done here. In fact, they could have used him to set-up actual pedos by booking them tours and giving details to the police.

But you must keep in mind that this is reporting, and reporting doesn't always, or maybe even often, accord with the facts. Reporting is selective and designed to sell newspapers, titillate viewers and readers. I wouldn't pay much attention to what is reported, it could be sensationalizing the incident or something less?? Whatever it is, it's probably not entirely accurate.

[Orac]

As far as 'entrapment," who cares?" The sex tour thing was obviously an investigation to see if they guy was in Thailand to have sex with underage boys. It seems pretty clear that he was. That is the real crime here. And if it takes a sting about a sex tour, well, I can live with that.

The guy is a pervert, sex tour entrapment part of it or not.

I'd say the real crime here is making children available to sick people.

Agree. But from what I read, i didn't see that he actually did it, only offered. If he has done it before, then certainly.

There is a lot of information missing here which will no doubt come out in his trial. The specific charge about the website seems dubious as the link provided by another poster does not mention anything about sexs tours, let alone child sex tours.

It does say the that man charged works with an Englishman in Thailand so if this undercover policeman has some has some proof that he has been promised a trip to Thailand and introductions to underage boys they he deserves all he gets. If, on the other hand, he is a normal travel agent who has been approached by someone posing as a sex tourist and told him head for Pattaya then maybe not so guilty.

Edited October 31, 2011 by Orac