NZ Man Goes On Trial Over Thai Sex Tour

[outofoz]

The AAP/SMH link report sit as..

"The trial before Justice Edwin Wylie alone is expected to take two weeks"

The New Zealand Herald reports the same story as....

"The judge-only trial is expected to run for at least four days. The rest of the day's proceedings will include the court hearing hours of covertly-taped conversations between the accused and the undercover officer."

I guess those conversations will be of interest!

[bri1guy]

The only part of the case which should be discussed, is if they were actually looking for underage persons, if not case closed, if so then close the prison doors!

[wotaplonker]

*Deleted quote edited out*

That’s not true.

A child is a child, no matter whether they are boys or girls.

These scum are nasty, vermin and child rapists. Like all vermin, should be eradicated from society.

The accused's website offered guided tours of Thailand "catering to your interests and desires" (the word your in italics), which Ms Walker said was a suggested and coded reference to unlawful sexual activity.

Well, ya learn something everyday. Now the sickos have created their own language.

Imagine someone taking all that trouble to create a tour for the raping of children?

Have low can a human sink?

we can plummit to any arbitrary behaviour in seconds, recall Rwanda, two groups (tribes living together)

next minute one tribe literally cutting to pieces the other tribe

[ALEXXANDER]

Actually the age of consent in Thailand is 15, so the charges relating to underage sex at 18 surely cant apply ??

[Orac]

Actually the age of consent in Thailand is 15, so the charges relating to underage sex at 18 surely cant apply ??

Firstly the age of consent in Thailand is a bit ambiguous but anyone who has sex with someone under 18 is asking for big trouble. Secondly he has not been charged with underage sex, thirdly, the information released about the sex tour he is being accused of arranging for the undercover officer does not mention any ages be they above or below 15.

I would assume there is significant evidence that is going to be produced here as the 'evidence' that appears to be in the public eye so far seems a bit weak to the point of anyone offering tours to or within Thailand tailored to their customers requirements could be on rocky ground!

Edited October 31, 2011 by Orac

[scotto]

To jsflnn603

I believe you are right about the aboriginals in Australia, my point of view was that if anyone was proven guilty of any such act towards a child

then they should not be incarcerated at all just be taken for a walk never to return.

A bit harsh but the sad reality is that most of these people re offend and court systems let them back out in to society

As i have children of my own and if anything happened to them like this then i assure you that i will be spending time in prison.

this is my own opinion

thanks

scotto

[luckizuchinni]

Actually the age of consent in Thailand is 15, so the charges relating to underage sex at 18 surely cant apply ??

I would recommend that you rely on that mis-information. You need to read up on what is the practical age of consent.

Additionally, while I am not sure on New Zealand, citizens from many countries are liable based on their own nation's age of consent, not the age of consent in the country in which the sex took place.

But we don't even know how old the Thais were.

[dighambara]

Don't worry folks. He will get deal with. They will first send him to Mt Eden then up to Paremoremo. Maxi Jail. When I go to Thailand I make sure they are legal age.

It is not that easy. Many use their older sister's or cousin's ID and get way with it.

Many years ago, I wandered into a bar along a strip of bars and happened to ask the bartender about one girl's age. His answer was a surprise so I askedmore questions. He openly admitted that the oldest girl in the bar was 17 - all had false ID...

Never, ever went back there again...

[RickThai]

Good for New Zealand!

I wish more countries would follow their lead. As more international pressure has been put on the Thai government, pedaphiles have started going to Cambodia and Vietnam for their sick delights.

Hopefull, the government's of the world can put a stop to pedaphilia in those countries as well.

Hopefully Thailand will follow the lead of Taiwan and clean up its liberal policy towards prostitution (adults and children). Although prosititution exists in nearly every country in the world, once Thai officials start arresting prostitutes and their customers, Thailand will stop attracting "sex-tourists" and "sex-patriates".

The "falongs" who visit Thailand and those who chose to live there, will enjoy Thailand for its people and culture, vs. "cheap sex".

I think this would benefit everyone.

Just my thoughts.

[Ulysses G.]

Although prosititution exists in nearly every country in the world, once Thai officials start arresting prostitutes and their customers, Thailand will stop attracting "sex-tourists" and "sex-patriates".

Maybe, but something like 80% of the Thai men would be in jail too.

[oo7]

strange not all countrys the same Spain 15 to have sex uk 16 and maybe others much younger,wish all have the same limit.Long time ago sex at 14 was allowed in the uk....

[leemac]

-quote-:

Ms Walker said an undercover officer was assigned to approach the accused after an airport search in December 2009 found a thumb drive with photos of the accused with his arm around "teenage-looking males" and a card including Thai phrases of how to ask for specific sexual acts."

-unquote-

Jesus... I must have hundreds of pictures with my arm around "teenage - looking" girls..... And if they also find some naughty phrases scribbled by just those "teenage - looking" girls, that is enough to have a special agent on my heels who tries at all costs, using all means to prove that I am a criminal pedophile??

I'm on my knees, thank God, I'm not a NZ citizen!!!

Gotta agree. I don't see him doing anything clearly illegal. Dodgy, borderline, but did he arrange a sex tour with underage children or give "pickup" advice to a customer looking to buy a travel package to a well known "red-light" nation?

I don't see any actual laws being broken by the guy getting done here. In fact, they could have used him to set-up actual pedos by booking them tours and giving details to the police.

I can't find the EDIT option, so replying to my own post is the next best option:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10763013

Looks like he was guilty, giving tips on picking up boys and offering to help him do it. Lock him up in Thailand, I reckon. NZ is too soft for this type of person.

[leemac]

Actually the age of consent in Thailand is 15, so the charges relating to underage sex at 18 surely cant apply ??

I would recommend that you rely on that mis-information. You need to read up on what is the practical age of consent.

Additionally, while I am not sure on New Zealand, citizens from many countries are liable based on their own nation's age of consent, not the age of consent in the country in which the sex took place.

But we don't even know how old the Thais were.

NZ is 16.

[saxpirant]

Entrapment or not, the person being enticed has choices. One is to get involved, the other is to not get involved. You make the wrong choice you put your head in the noose.

Looks like a simple case of somebody doing the wrong thing to me.

luckizuchinni, on Yesterday, 10:52 , said:

As far as 'entrapment," who cares?" The sex tour thing was obviously an investigation to see if they guy was in Thailand to have sex with underage boys. It seems pretty clear that he was. That is the real crime here. And if it takes a sting about a sex tour, well, I can live with that.

The guy is a pervert, sex tour entrapment part of it or not.

Edited October 31, 2011 by saxpirant

[aneliane]

Pedophiles are produced by our society.

Saying they should be killed/got rid of is as stupid as saying Co2 is bad let's stop exhaling.

Canada is the only country who decided to seriously treat these people and rehabilitate them, the rest of the world does not think it's a priority not to release dangerous mentally sick men into our society, and prefer calling them monsters.

The monster is within us.

[Sutherland]

Child protection advocates are right to be angry about the child sex tourism case before the High Court in Auckland. But not, I suggest, with the defendant.

He has been to Thailand several times over the last ten years - mostly with his father, a medical scientist, to take medical equipment to refugees on the Thai/Burma border.

He has also visited some of the gay night spots in Bangkok and Pattaya.

Customs inspected his laptop on his return. They found nothing objectionable.

Police reported to the media that he had claimed he had been to bed with a 14 year old Thai boy. Under cross examination the undercover policeman admitted he had not said this.

Police reported to the media that the undercover policeman had 'been offered a sex tour.' Again, under cross examination, the police officer admitted this was not true, and that he raised with the defendant the possibility of finding a 'young friend.'

The defendant has been charged with promoting and organising a sex tour.

The Crown’s case for the promoting charge is that the words ‘your special interests’ on the defendant’s website www.overtherainbow.co.nz are a code for unlawful sexual activity.

The defendant says this simply means what it says – that if a client was interested in WWII sites, or diving, or temples, etc, a tour could be organised around those interests. The website and sample itinerary seem to confirm this.

On the organising charge, the defendant says he suspected his ‘client’ was interested in underage boys. He tried to steer him in the direction of activities which would meet his needs and be safe and legal.

In the end he wrote an email in which he confirmed he would not organise or participate in anything illegal, and asked the client to accept this as a condition of moving forward. Five days later the client emailed back saying he still wanted to go ahead.

The police case is essentially that the defendant should have known the undercover police officer still intended to act illegally, and therefore that making flight and hotel bookings for him was 'facilitating the use of prostitutes under the age of eighteen.' In their view, that constitutes 'organising a child sex tour.'

But the real question is surely, if there is child sex tourism being organised in New Zealand, why did the police spend eight months of their time, and vast amounts of taxpayer money, pursuing someone who had never organised a sex tour, and on the evidence so far, never had any intention of doing so?

[monty1412]

When in Germany I saw a tv documentary about the pursuit of underage sex in Thailand.

Subsequently at least one perp was id'ed and prosecuted in the homeland.

Australia is very active in this regards in fact Australia posts AFP ( Federal Police) permanently in Thailand with specific aim of catching Australians engaged in such practices and yes they are tried and convicted back on home shores.

[csolgosz]

If the guy really was promoting pedaphile activity he should get what is coming to him.

However I agree with an earlier poster: men can be referred to as boys up to the age of 30.

Seems doubtful evidence based on what I see and if they lose the case against him I wonder if he can counter-sue?

[chickenslegs]

Child protection advocates are right to be angry about the child sex tourism case before the High Court in Auckland. But not, I suggest, with the defendant.

He has been to Thailand several times over the last ten years - mostly with his father, a medical scientist, to take medical equipment to refugees on the Thai/Burma border.

He has also visited some of the gay night spots in Bangkok and Pattaya.

Customs inspected his laptop on his return. They found nothing objectionable.

Police reported to the media that he had claimed he had been to bed with a 14 year old Thai boy. Under cross examination the undercover policeman admitted he had not said this.

Police reported to the media that the undercover policeman had 'been offered a sex tour.' Again, under cross examination, the police officer admitted this was not true, and that he raised with the defendant the possibility of finding a 'young friend.'

The defendant has been charged with promoting and organising a sex tour.

The Crown's case for the promoting charge is that the words 'your special interests' on the defendant's website www.overtherainbow.co.nz are a code for unlawful sexual activity.

The defendant says this simply means what it says – that if a client was interested in WWII sites, or diving, or temples, etc, a tour could be organised around those interests. The website and sample itinerary seem to confirm this.

On the organising charge, the defendant says he suspected his 'client' was interested in underage boys. He tried to steer him in the direction of activities which would meet his needs and be safe and legal.

In the end he wrote an email in which he confirmed he would not organise or participate in anything illegal, and asked the client to accept this as a condition of moving forward. Five days later the client emailed back saying he still wanted to go ahead.

The police case is essentially that the defendant should have known the undercover police officer still intended to act illegally, and therefore that making flight and hotel bookings for him was 'facilitating the use of prostitutes under the age of eighteen.' In their view, that constitutes 'organising a child sex tour.'

But the real question is surely, if there is child sex tourism being organised in New Zealand, why did the police spend eight months of their time, and vast amounts of taxpayer money, pursuing someone who had never organised a sex tour, and on the evidence so far, never had any intention of doing so?

Not a typical first post on TV

[Ijustwannateach]

A post has been removed and a lengthy posting holiday assigned for ignoring the previous public warning and also for referring to homosexuality as an 'aberrant deviation'.

[Orac]

Child protection advocates are right to be angry about the child sex tourism case before the High Court in Auckland. But not, I suggest, with the defendant.

He has been to Thailand several times over the last ten years - mostly with his father, a medical scientist, to take medical equipment to refugees on the Thai/Burma border.

He has also visited some of the gay night spots in Bangkok and Pattaya.

Customs inspected his laptop on his return. They found nothing objectionable.

Police reported to the media that he had claimed he had been to bed with a 14 year old Thai boy. Under cross examination the undercover policeman admitted he had not said this.

Police reported to the media that the undercover policeman had 'been offered a sex tour.' Again, under cross examination, the police officer admitted this was not true, and that he raised with the defendant the possibility of finding a 'young friend.'

The defendant has been charged with promoting and organising a sex tour.

The Crown's case for the promoting charge is that the words 'your special interests' on the defendant's website www.overtherainbow.co.nz are a code for unlawful sexual activity.

The defendant says this simply means what it says – that if a client was interested in WWII sites, or diving, or temples, etc, a tour could be organised around those interests. The website and sample itinerary seem to confirm this.

On the organising charge, the defendant says he suspected his 'client' was interested in underage boys. He tried to steer him in the direction of activities which would meet his needs and be safe and legal.

In the end he wrote an email in which he confirmed he would not organise or participate in anything illegal, and asked the client to accept this as a condition of moving forward. Five days later the client emailed back saying he still wanted to go ahead.

The police case is essentially that the defendant should have known the undercover police officer still intended to act illegally, and therefore that making flight and hotel bookings for him was 'facilitating the use of prostitutes under the age of eighteen.' In their view, that constitutes 'organising a child sex tour.'

But the real question is surely, if there is child sex tourism being organised in New Zealand, why did the police spend eight months of their time, and vast amounts of taxpayer money, pursuing someone who had never organised a sex tour, and on the evidence so far, never had any intention of doing so?

Not a typical first post on TV

Seems to be someone with some knowledge about what is happenning here and in position of some pertinant facts on the subject at hand - we don't want that sort here. Bring back the uninformed opinion, over the top hyperbole and sensationalism that we are used to - lets burn this witch

[Gers1873]

pedophiles can't be cured as this is a stable sexual preference and t's not something that goes away — this is a fact being recognized by the medical profession.

The problem for society becomes how to deal with these people how to reduce 'their urges'.

If we fail to address this problem then as a society we have failed to protect our most vulernable members, our children.

If I have a pup that I dont plan to breed or to show I do not leave him intact. Why doesnt society take the same attitude to paedophiles?? Castrate them. Doing so will not 'cure them' but will greatly reduce their urges.

Back top the OP from a NZ paper---- he used on his website. The words included "boy'', "gay sex'' and "Thailand''.

Not exactly the language of ambiguity

[Orac]

pedophiles can't be cured as this is a stable sexual preference and t's not something that goes away — this is a fact being recognized by the medical profession.

The problem for society becomes how to deal with these people how to reduce 'their urges'.

If we fail to address this problem then as a society we have failed to protect our most vulernable members, our children.

If I have a pup that I dont plan to breed or to show I do not leave him intact. Why doesnt society take the same attitude to paedophiles?? Castrate them. Doing so will not 'cure them' but will greatly reduce their urges.

Back top the OP from a NZ paper---- he used on his website. The words included "boy'', "gay sex'' and "Thailand''.

Not exactly the language of ambiguity

The alleged website is here http://www.overtherainbow.co.nz

I cannot see the word 'boy' on it anywhere including the metadata:

travel, Thailand, family tour, get-together, Gay, thailand, tour, 7 day, Pattaya, Bangkok, travel, sunee, beach, fun, island, business

Last update was 8th Feb so it doesn't appear to have been changed recently.

Maybe someone with more technical knowledge than me can see where they are looking or there is a different site that is being refered to but what I can see here does not look all that dodgy.

[smokie36]

Well I had a look at the website. If I had stumbled across it accidently I doubt I would have had any concern.

in this context however..." in the evening we'll help you to find the entertainment you are looking for."

[bkkmick]

It's been removed. Check out the Wayback Machine if you want to see the site before the scandal broke.

[endure]

They don't deserve punishment, they deserve "gunishment".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLyLGrbKokI&feature=related

You do realise that 'Brass Eye' is a series of spoof programmes made to highlight the public hysteria surrounding various subjects? They were all satire. Looks like you fell for it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass_Eye

[smokie36]

It's been removed. Check out the Wayback Machine if you want to see the site before the scandal broke.

There is no link. Probably for the best....

[endure]

It's been removed. Check out the Wayback Machine if you want to see the site before the scandal broke.

There is no link. Probably for the best....

The waybackmachine appears to be down for maintenance but there was a link to the site in March 2008. The words 'gay sex', 'sunee' and 'boy' appeared in the metadata together with more innocuous words like 'family' etc.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Child protection advocates are right to be angry about the child sex tourism case before the High Court in Auckland. But not, I suggest, with the defendant.

He has been to Thailand several times over the last ten years - mostly with his father, a medical scientist, to take medical equipment to refugees on the Thai/Burma border.

He has also visited some of the gay night spots in Bangkok and Pattaya.

Customs inspected his laptop on his return. They found nothing objectionable.

Police reported to the media that he had claimed he had been to bed with a 14 year old Thai boy. Under cross examination the undercover policeman admitted he had not said this.

Police reported to the media that the undercover policeman had 'been offered a sex tour.' Again, under cross examination, the police officer admitted this was not true, and that he raised with the defendant the possibility of finding a 'young friend.'

The defendant has been charged with promoting and organising a sex tour.

The Crown’s case for the promoting charge is that the words ‘your special interests’ on the defendant’s website www.overtherainbow.co.nz are a code for unlawful sexual activity.

The defendant says this simply means what it says – that if a client was interested in WWII sites, or diving, or temples, etc, a tour could be organised around those interests. The website and sample itinerary seem to confirm this.

On the organising charge, the defendant says he suspected his ‘client’ was interested in underage boys. He tried to steer him in the direction of activities which would meet his needs and be safe and legal.

In the end he wrote an email in which he confirmed he would not organise or participate in anything illegal, and asked the client to accept this as a condition of moving forward. Five days later the client emailed back saying he still wanted to go ahead.

The police case is essentially that the defendant should have known the undercover police officer still intended to act illegally, and therefore that making flight and hotel bookings for him was 'facilitating the use of prostitutes under the age of eighteen.' In their view, that constitutes 'organising a child sex tour.'

But the real question is surely, if there is child sex tourism being organised in New Zealand, why did the police spend eight months of their time, and vast amounts of taxpayer money, pursuing someone who had never organised a sex tour, and on the evidence so far, never had any intention of doing so?

Excellent post. I have been following this case in the NZ media for the past weeks, and bit by bit I'm getting to the same conclusion. This is the firs time I notice the Thaivisa.com topic.

It's now getting into misinformed insinuations, like that there was the word 'boys' in the website's meta tags. Even this forum has loads of ads that feature the equivalent word 'girls'. Might as well go after almost any site on Thailand then.

Of course they may still hang him high to be made an example of..

[endure]

It's now getting into misinformed insinuations, like that there was the word 'boys' in the website's meta tags. Even this forum has loads of ads that feature the equivalent word 'girls'. Might as well go after almost any site on Thailand then.

The use of the word 'boy' is common in Thailand to describe men up to about 30 years old. It would be nice if someone from NZ could confirm what the word 'boy' means there as it is a NZ audience that the website was offering holidays to.