Water Influx Outpaces Drainage: Bangkok Governor

[sparebox2]

"Water influx outpaces drainage" Well.......yeah! Who was the rocket scientist that figured this out?

It ranks right up there with the "Bangkok is situated on a flood plain" observation by those Japanese experts.

If all 60 millions in Thailand help to open their umbrella when it rain, it can keep Thailand dry. And there will be no more flood, ever.

[Jerrytheyoung]

If there was an electrified railways network (speed 200KM- not a High Speed Train) and highways (not four lanes roads), I am sure some investors will prefer to be in Khon Khaen, Udon Thani, Roi Et...Quality and cost of life.

How much cost a Km of MRT or BTS in Bangkok? How many km of prper railways can we build in the upcountry with the same budget?

Social costs: What about the Police you need in Khon Khaen or Roi Et ratio per inhabitant?

How much time is lost in commuting? What is the social cost of commuting throughout Bangkok?

What is the average salary in Khon Khaen or Roi Et? If I am an investor and the infrastructure is there, with some incitatives like in some industrial parks, why I will go in the mess of Bangkok when I can find a more peaceful solution?

[ratcatcher]

Well, then let's move it!

Let's move it all, the subaway, the skytrain, just everything... out of there and then let it all flood!

Can't believe the stuff I am reading here!

Is there any, any of the infrastructur, that is found in inner bangkok, out there in the flooded plains?

What makes my mind boggle is the sheer amount of the floods, how and where did it accumulate?

Just accumulated from rainfall?

It makes my mind boggle... how could all this massive amount of water have accumulated without being somehow noticed.

Well, actually, it was noticed by the people living "upcountry" (meaning anywhere outside the capital)

.

While people from Chiang Mai, Uttaradit, Phitsanulok, Phichit etc etc, on down to Ayuttaya were floating around in the muddy flood

waters caused by overflowing dams, heavy seasonal rains, assisted by La Nina & at least 3 serious tropical storms, it was reported in

the newspapers, alongside amusing stories of amnesty for Big Boss, first time car buys and the minimum daily wage.

Perhaps it was only when the water was banging on Bangkok's back door that someone in the government said (and I paraphrase) "Holy shit, has anyone seen what's coming down from Nakhon Sawan? We'd better start panicking folks,let's form a commitee";

The country people already knew that shit water runs downhill, and now the powers that be, and of course millions of innocent people, are paying the price.

[RichardinBKK]

If there was an electrified railways network (speed 200KM- not a High Speed Train) and highways (not four lanes roads), I am sure some investors will prefer to be in Khon Khaen, Udon Thani, Roi Et...Quality and cost of life.

How much cost a Km of MRT or BTS in Bangkok? How many km of prper railways can we build in the upcountry with the same budget?

Social costs: What about the Police you need in Khon Khaen or Roi Et ratio per inhabitant?

How much time is lost in commuting? What is the social cost of commuting throughout Bangkok?

What is the average salary in Khon Khaen or Roi Et? If I am an investor and the infrastructure is there, with some incitatives like in some industrial parks, why I will go in the mess of Bangkok when I can find a more peaceful solution?

Dear Jerry,

Two words. Supply. Demand. As an investor it may be of some interest to you to investigate the relationship the two have to price.

Honestly, you do not understand that as these places become more populated and attractive to people, prices and wages go up? And you are simply mirroring the time tested problem between urban and rural life? In the USA, they call this approach "Urban Sprawl." and complain that small enterprise, individualism, local customs, etc get swallowed up by the urban machine. (See "Starbucks verses mom and pop coffee shops)

That is not to say your ideas of expanding to new regions, investing in better systems etc is not an excellent idea...but please do not insult our intelligence with the notion that these are desirable places because they are less expensive (now)

You see, once upon a time there was this little island, the natives called it "Manhattan" ... for about $28 you could buy the whole thing...now, that is the price to park on it for one hour.

[Jerrytheyoung]

Supply and Demand have to be regulated in order to fulfill People, not only benefit to the investors: it is to Thai people to organise their territory in order to get an harmonious country not only for fthe benefit of Foreiogn Investors who are going to leave for better skies when they can make profit elsewhere, letting the rubish to the local population.

Not against the Capitalism, but it must be regulated for the sake of humans.

[block2]

"On complaints about garbage in flood water, Sukhumbhand said BMA had already hired some locals at Bt300 a day for garbage collection in areas where the flood-water level was more than 80 centimetres deep."

Tonight is Loi Katung......where all the thai's float boats made out of banana and flowers...this is only going to add to the floodwater garbage problem.

[RickBradford]

If I am an investor and the infrastructure is there, with some incitatives like in some industrial parks, why I will go in the mess of Bangkok when I can find a more peaceful solution?

I understand what you say,but it might be too late for Thailand.

If you go east from BKK, the coast is factories and warehouses all the way to Chonburi and beyond.

North, there are hardly any rural areas before Saraburi

West, it's noting but factories all the way to Nakhon Pathom (60km) and beyond

South: (sploosh) or south-west, you have to go well past Samut Songkram (~80km) before you get any feeling of rurality.

[whybother]

"On complaints about garbage in flood water, Sukhumbhand said BMA had already hired some locals at Bt300 a day for garbage collection in areas where the flood-water level was more than 80 centimetres deep."

Tonight is Loi Katung......where all the thai's float boats made out of banana and flowers...this is only going to add to the floodwater garbage problem.

The used to be made out of banana and flowers. Now a lot of them are made of foam.

[KOZMO]

Well, then let's move it!

Let's move it all, the subaway, the skytrain, just everything... out of there and then let it all flood!

Can't believe the stuff I am reading here!

Is there any, any of the infrastructur, that is found in inner bangkok, out there in the flooded plains?

What makes my mind boggle is the sheer amount of the floods, how and where did it accumulate?

Just accumulated from rainfall?

It makes my mind boggle... how could all this massive amount of water have accumulated woithout beeing somehow noticed.

Because the powers to be were too concerned the first month about taksin's passport, visa, re-entry to notice the north of thailand was being flooded!!!

[Shurup]

Futility. People have known for weeks that it was best to just let the water flow where it wanted, which was through Inner Bangkok. They delayed it and have made things worse for people in outlaying areas, but in the end it's going to happen anyway. It's just that the flooding would have ended much faster and fewer districts put under water if the prideful people in charge had just allowed things play out from the beginning the way they are inevitably fated to go.

I agree 100% with this comment. The effort to make the flood "Go Away" by blocking it's path to the sea is impossible. The flood should be over NOW. It is actually worse now than if the water was allowed to flow through Bangkok. Yes it would have caused damaged. But it is now causing more damge over a much longer period of time, placing greater hardships on the people of Bangkok and Thailand. Next poblerm will be with disease because of the long lasting standing water.

The major problem not yet resolved is the major airport. Blocking water flow to the sea has caused massive amounts of water to back up and spread. It very well can reach and shut down the last remaining airport in Bangkok, a disaster in itself. As we have seen so far, tourism is at least 50% last years levels Do not believe the false figures of reduced tourism of only 15%, it is really around 50%. Major hit for Thailand. This wil also have a negative impact on the big New Years Eve celebrations should any outbreak of disease occur.

Rob, most people still just do not get it. It's not a choice between flooding Bangkok and not flooding Bangkok. You and I have made that point on this board since October, BEFORE I was flooded and just as your place was BEGINNING to flood. The water was always going to go into Bangkok. It was just a matter of how much and how fast. Yes, the powers that be have delayed things. But what happens when you wall up a lot of water for kilometer upon kilometer at least two or three meters high? Answer: it bursts through with force that causes considerable more damage than if things had flowed relatively lower and slower to begin with. Meanwhile, people who would not have been flooded or who would be dry by now are continuing to suffer. What the BMA and FROC have done is create a lose/lose scenerio for everyone. Just to delay the inevitable.

BTW, Mr. Whybother, why DON'T you bother to go out and see the effect of these floods on the lives of real people? I've been out on relief trucks delivering aid to people in Pathum Thani this week and last, and I've seen the long term devestation this flood is causing. I had to evacuate to a friend's house in On Nut, and I've used the opportunity to observe what these floods are doing and try to help people worse off than I am. Instead of NOT bothering with real life, why not get away from your keyboard for a few hours and do something purposeful that helps others?

Yup, you said it again! You run away and stay in your friend's house who was kiind enough to accept you. SO NOW you wish that your friend is flooded as well? How will flooding your friend make it any better for you (or many other people who evacuate and stay with friends/relatives)? I really wish your FRIEND reads your posts here and kicks you out so then you may learn a thing or two!

[zydeco]

Futility. People have known for weeks that it was best to just let the water flow where it wanted, which was through Inner Bangkok. They delayed it and have made things worse for people in outlaying areas, but in the end it's going to happen anyway. It's just that the flooding would have ended much faster and fewer districts put under water if the prideful people in charge had just allowed things play out from the beginning the way they are inevitably fated to go.

I agree 100% with this comment. The effort to make the flood "Go Away" by blocking it's path to the sea is impossible. The flood should be over NOW. It is actually worse now than if the water was allowed to flow through Bangkok. Yes it would have caused damaged. But it is now causing more damge over a much longer period of time, placing greater hardships on the people of Bangkok and Thailand. Next poblerm will be with disease because of the long lasting standing water.

The major problem not yet resolved is the major airport. Blocking water flow to the sea has caused massive amounts of water to back up and spread. It very well can reach and shut down the last remaining airport in Bangkok, a disaster in itself. As we have seen so far, tourism is at least 50% last years levels Do not believe the false figures of reduced tourism of only 15%, it is really around 50%. Major hit for Thailand. This wil also have a negative impact on the big New Years Eve celebrations should any outbreak of disease occur.

Rob, most people still just do not get it. It's not a choice between flooding Bangkok and not flooding Bangkok. You and I have made that point on this board since October, BEFORE I was flooded and just as your place was BEGINNING to flood. The water was always going to go into Bangkok. It was just a matter of how much and how fast. Yes, the powers that be have delayed things. But what happens when you wall up a lot of water for kilometer upon kilometer at least two or three meters high? Answer: it bursts through with force that causes considerable more damage than if things had flowed relatively lower and slower to begin with. Meanwhile, people who would not have been flooded or who would be dry by now are continuing to suffer. What the BMA and FROC have done is create a lose/lose scenerio for everyone. Just to delay the inevitable.

BTW, Mr. Whybother, why DON'T you bother to go out and see the effect of these floods on the lives of real people? I've been out on relief trucks delivering aid to people in Pathum Thani this week and last, and I've seen the long term devestation this flood is causing. I had to evacuate to a friend's house in On Nut, and I've used the opportunity to observe what these floods are doing and try to help people worse off than I am. Instead of NOT bothering with real life, why not get away from your keyboard for a few hours and do something purposeful that helps others?

Yup, you said it again! You run away and stay in your friend's house who was kiind enough to accept you. SO NOW you wish that your friend is flooded as well? How will flooding your friend make it any better for you (or many other people who evacuate and stay with friends/relatives)? I really wish your FRIEND reads your posts here and kicks you out so then you may learn a thing or two!

Some people on this board are dense beyond belief. It is not a matter of what I want. It's a matter of what is going to happen anyway. And whether delaying it makes it worse or better.

[Shurup]

Some people on this board are dense beyond belief. It is not a matter of what I want. It's a matter of what is going to happen anyway. And whether delaying it makes it worse or better.

It's not what you been telling day after day here. You like a broken record keep telling over and over that flooding BKK will make things easier for those already flooded.

Besides, you don't know if it's gonna happen anyway, maybe it will, maybe it won't, at least they try to prevent it making it BETTER for you and others who already flooded.

I feel sorry for those flooded but I don't wish anyone and certainly BKK downtown get flooded, it will only make matters worse and won't help a thing! BKK downtown is like a small pimple on elephant's butt! Flooding BKK downtown will not reduce the flood in other areas (if it will, it won't be noticeble) and it will not make water drain faster.

Try to use logic when you post, not emotions.

[Markaew]

Sorry I don't buy the flood everything idea.

Save what you can, ANYTHING you can, and what you can't get it over with as soon as possible.

It's a forgone conclusion most things all get trashed, but not everything, and sorry saving some of inner Bangkok is really going to mean very little to the inevitable and unescapable trashing of the surrounding areas.

It was going to happen anyway, no matter of downtown got trashed or not. Anyone who really understood the aerial and satellite photos would know this.

Sharing the pain just means more pain for more people, and the overall crippling of the recovery for those who can't be avoided, not less pain for some already getting hammered.

To continue this thought.....by keeping some areas dry then you keep supply chains in place. Without food and water distribution, things could get pretty desperate.

[robblok]

Some people on this board are dense beyond belief. It is not a matter of what I want. It's a matter of what is going to happen anyway. And whether delaying it makes it worse or better.

It's not what you been telling day after day here. You like a broken record keep telling over and over that flooding BKK will make things easier for those already flooded.

Besides, you don't know if it's gonna happen anyway, maybe it will, maybe it won't, at least they try to prevent it making it BETTER for you and others who already flooded.

I feel sorry for those flooded but I don't wish anyone and certainly BKK downtown get flooded, it will only make matters worse and won't help a thing! BKK downtown is like a small pimple on elephant's butt! Flooding BKK downtown will not reduce the flood in other areas (if it will, it won't be noticeble) and it will not make water drain faster.

Try to use logic when you post, not emotions.

I am not so sure that it would not go faster if it was drained through BKK. If you look at an elevation map you see that now they are not using elevation as much as they should They are diverting it away from low lying area's (BKK). That means water will travel longer and get higher in affected area's. So saying there is no effect is not true.

Question is is it worth it, for the people who are flooded.. yes. For BKK people No. Different sides of the fence. You could even make a case that factories would be dry sooner if BKK was flooded. Its not all as Black and white as some people (presumably with houses in the dry lower area's) want you to believe it.

I have been flooded here for over a month. Yesterday my house dried out (having a max of 20cm inside and 75 cm in the streets). I can tell you when the water was rising i lost my temper a lot and cursed BKK for keeping the gates closed. Now i see that it would have no effect for my area because we are on the west. But people on the east are suffering for BKK. Also other provinces were ordered to keep the water there as long as possible. That was a reason for me being flooded. So yes they did sacrifice others for BKK.

Then they come with a compensation that is a pittance of the real damage. All those dry forum users telling us we should be happy with it. While they stayed dry because others flooded. (talking here about the other provinces that had to keep the water until sandbags bursted and then other area's that would not have over flown (like my area) got hit because of it.

So yea i can see the anger of people who are flooded. But the main person who is to blame is the agricultural minister. He should resign and pay for damages. That would be a fitting punishment.

[Payboy]

"Water influx outpaces drainage" Well.......yeah! Who was the rocket scientist that figured this out?

It ranks right up there with the "Bangkok is situated on a flood plain" observation by those Japanese experts.

If all 60 millions in Thailand help to open their umbrella when it rain, it can keep Thailand dry. And there will be no more flood, ever.

Need to to that with just one hand then, seeing that all of them are holding up the sky with their other hand.

[whybother]

<snip>

While they stayed dry because others flooded. (talking here about the other provinces that had to keep the water until sandbags bursted and then other area's that would not have over flown (like my area) got hit because of it.

<snip>

Are you suggesting that they used sandbags to keep areas above them flooded, rather than using them to keep areas below them dry?

It sounds like you would have got hit a lot earlier if they hadn't used sandbags to protect your area.

[robblok]

<snip>

While they stayed dry because others flooded. (talking here about the other provinces that had to keep the water until sandbags bursted and then other area's that would not have over flown (like my area) got hit because of it.

<snip>

Are you suggesting that they used sandbags to keep areas above them flooded, rather than using them to keep areas below them dry?

It sounds like you would have got hit a lot earlier if they hadn't used sandbags to protect your area.

I probably would not have been hit at all. But BKK on the other hand would have. And yes they used sand bags to keep water in. Just look at the governor that was replaced because he could not keep water in as long as possible.

By using sandbags too much they build huge lakes that when it finally broke did more damage then good.

[ThaiKiwi]

Futility. People have known for weeks that it was best to just let the water flow where it wanted, which was through Inner Bangkok. They delayed it and have made things worse for people in outlaying areas, but in the end it's going to happen anyway. It's just that the flooding would have ended much faster and fewer districts put under water if the prideful people in charge had just allowed things play out from the beginning the way they are inevitably fated to go.

And when the inner parts of Bangkok are below sea level, I wonder how you think it will drain out to the sea faster!

[ResX]

Some people on this board are dense beyond belief. It is not a matter of what I want. It's a matter of what is going to happen anyway. And whether delaying it makes it worse or better.

It's not what you been telling day after day here. You like a broken record keep telling over and over that flooding BKK will make things easier for those already flooded.

Besides, you don't know if it's gonna happen anyway, maybe it will, maybe it won't, at least they try to prevent it making it BETTER for you and others who already flooded.

I feel sorry for those flooded but I don't wish anyone and certainly BKK downtown get flooded, it will only make matters worse and won't help a thing! BKK downtown is like a small pimple on elephant's butt! Flooding BKK downtown will not reduce the flood in other areas (if it will, it won't be noticeble) and it will not make water drain faster.

Try to use logic when you post, not emotions.

I am not so sure that it would not go faster if it was drained through BKK. If you look at an elevation map you see that now they are not using elevation as much as they should They are diverting it away from low lying area's (BKK). That means water will travel longer and get higher in affected area's. So saying there is no effect is not true.

Question is is it worth it, for the people who are flooded.. yes. For BKK people No. Different sides of the fence. You could even make a case that factories would be dry sooner if BKK was flooded. Its not all as Black and white as some people (presumably with houses in the dry lower area's) want you to believe it.

I have been flooded here for over a month. Yesterday my house dried out (having a max of 20cm inside and 75 cm in the streets). I can tell you when the water was rising i lost my temper a lot and cursed BKK for keeping the gates closed. Now i see that it would have no effect for my area because we are on the west. But people on the east are suffering for BKK. Also other provinces were ordered to keep the water there as long as possible. That was a reason for me being flooded. So yes they did sacrifice others for BKK.

Then they come with a compensation that is a pittance of the real damage. All those dry forum users telling us we should be happy with it. While they stayed dry because others flooded. (talking here about the other provinces that had to keep the water until sandbags bursted and then other area's that would not have over flown (like my area) got hit because of it.

So yea i can see the anger of people who are flooded. But the main person who is to blame is the agricultural minister. He should resign and pay for damages. That would be a fitting punishment.

Open the control gates and release some waters through Bangkok most likely makes limited impact to both flood level and duration for the flood plain just upstream to the gates. You can't expect rice fields further to the north will be affected even at microscopic level. What actually causes the delay in flood levels for many of the flood plains is the incoming stream (From the north) and outgoing stream (to the sea) are very close numerically. The net draw down of the trapped flood waters is marginally small. If I can estimate, for no rainfall and run off scenario, incoming flow from the north could be above 200million cubic meter per day. The outgoing flow is about 400million cubic meter. The net draw down rate is at 200million cubic meter per day.

When the flood level reduces, the outgoing flow is also reduced. The net daily draw down has become even smaller. When there are a pockets of rainfalls, in the north or within low land flood plains, the incoming flow may even bigger that the outgoing. Thus, the flood levels at many areas can even increase. This is the important mechanic that prolong the flood duration.

[robblok]

It's not what you been telling day after day here. You like a broken record keep telling over and over that flooding BKK will make things easier for those already flooded.

Besides, you don't know if it's gonna happen anyway, maybe it will, maybe it won't, at least they try to prevent it making it BETTER for you and others who already flooded.

I feel sorry for those flooded but I don't wish anyone and certainly BKK downtown get flooded, it will only make matters worse and won't help a thing! BKK downtown is like a small pimple on elephant's butt! Flooding BKK downtown will not reduce the flood in other areas (if it will, it won't be noticeble) and it will not make water drain faster.

Try to use logic when you post, not emotions.

I am not so sure that it would not go faster if it was drained through BKK. If you look at an elevation map you see that now they are not using elevation as much as they should They are diverting it away from low lying area's (BKK). That means water will travel longer and get higher in affected area's. So saying there is no effect is not true.

Question is is it worth it, for the people who are flooded.. yes. For BKK people No. Different sides of the fence. You could even make a case that factories would be dry sooner if BKK was flooded. Its not all as Black and white as some people (presumably with houses in the dry lower area's) want you to believe it.

I have been flooded here for over a month. Yesterday my house dried out (having a max of 20cm inside and 75 cm in the streets). I can tell you when the water was rising i lost my temper a lot and cursed BKK for keeping the gates closed. Now i see that it would have no effect for my area because we are on the west. But people on the east are suffering for BKK. Also other provinces were ordered to keep the water there as long as possible. That was a reason for me being flooded. So yes they did sacrifice others for BKK.

Then they come with a compensation that is a pittance of the real damage. All those dry forum users telling us we should be happy with it. While they stayed dry because others flooded. (talking here about the other provinces that had to keep the water until sandbags bursted and then other area's that would not have over flown (like my area) got hit because of it.

So yea i can see the anger of people who are flooded. But the main person who is to blame is the agricultural minister. He should resign and pay for damages. That would be a fitting punishment.

Open the control gates and release some waters through Bangkok most likely makes limited impact to both flood level and duration for the flood plain just upstream to the gates. You can't expect rice fields further to the north will be affected even at microscopic level. What actually causes the delay in flood levels for many of the flood plains is the incoming stream (From the north) and outgoing stream (to the sea) are very close numerically. The net draw down of the trapped flood waters is marginally small. If I can estimate, for no rainfall and run off scenario, incoming flow from the north could be above 200million cubic meter per day. The outgoing flow is about 400million cubic meter. The net draw down rate is at 200million cubic meter per day.

When the flood level reduces, the outgoing flow is also reduced. The net daily draw down has become even smaller. When there are a pockets of rainfalls, in the north or within low land flood plains, the incoming flow may even bigger that the outgoing. Thus, the flood levels at many areas can even increase. This is the important mechanic that prolong the flood duration.

That is your opinion, my opinion is that it would help because water going down in a straight line at max elevation is going to move faster then water that is forced into a longer line at less elevation.

You could even simulate that in computer animation or just at a beach.

Is it feasible to flood Bangkok, no i don't think so anymore. But i just want to make it clear its is definitely going to go faster. Also by collecting the water at its lowest place and then pumping it out it would go faster then letting it go naturally without pumping.

So what i say is true that people are being sacrificed for BKK and then getting a pittance in damage compensation.

[animatic]

Sukhumbhand says big bags marginally successful. Boat pusshing water is also marginally successful. Small sand bags marginally successful, EM balls marginally successful, Shut dams up marginally successful, etc etc.

Put everthing together, and you have a BIG SUCCESS.

Put everything together we get :

Marginal chance of the country pulling out of this one by the end of NEXT year.

Marginal national income.

Marginal employment.

Marginal reconstruction using

Marginal quality supplies.

Marginal confidence in the future from the

Marginalized masses.

But maximum graft potential, and

maximum bite taken from the average thais way of life.

Edited November 11, 2011 by animatic

[cdnvic]

"The volume of water entering Bangkok is much greater than the amount being pushed out, according to Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra."

Thank you Governor Blatently Obvious.

[animatic]

"The volume of water entering Bangkok is much greater than the amount being pushed out, according to Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra."

Thank you Governor Blatently Obvious.

At least he is saying the blatantly obvious.

vs.

"The worst is over."

" We never got the paperwork for the pumps."

"No one told the dams to not release the water."

This list is nearly endless..............

[Payboy]

"The volume of water entering Bangkok is much greater than the amount being pushed out, according to Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra."

Thank you Governor Blatently Obvious.

The real reason its flooding and flowing around in Bangkok is because water is liquid.

[whybother]

That is your opinion, my opinion is that it would help because water going down in a straight line at max elevation is going to move faster then water that is forced into a longer line at less elevation.

You could even simulate that in computer animation or just at a beach.

Is it feasible to flood Bangkok, no i don't think so anymore. But i just want to make it clear its is definitely going to go faster. Also by collecting the water at its lowest place and then pumping it out it would go faster then letting it go naturally without pumping.

So what i say is true that people are being sacrificed for BKK and then getting a pittance in damage compensation.

Water going through Bangkok doesn't go in a straight line and it doesn't go at a constant decreasing elevation. Bangkok has lots of little rises that the water needs to go around and troughs for the water to get caught in. There are also a few buildings in the way.

Even the very small amount of water that can go through the klongs doesn't go in straight lines, and then needs to get pumped out at the other end.

[plumeria]

The only reason that they are using the "big bags" is that dikes made of big bags cannot be disassembled by hand! Given the weight of each bag, even a small backhoe would have trouble moving one. The big bags are probably not any more effective at stopping water than regular sandbags, but they cannot be as easily moved or destroyed by disgruntled people on the wrong side of the dikes.

Now THAT is useful info. Thanks for explaining the mystery of the "Big Bags".

But didn't point out that the composition of "Big Bags" means they are intended to redirect, not be a waterproof barrier.

That's a bit more reasonable approach and better use of sand and a solution to the mob rule of recent days.

Thanks for the insight!

[plumeria]

I am one of the people here who has a home that is already under water (Thonburi) and all the first floor possessions are damaged. The water has not gone done, but appears to either be the same or increasing. The more time my stuff is underwater, the more it is screwed from being salvageable. I would really like the flood waters to recede to minimize the damage.

The way I look at it, I am already screwed. If the water goes through downtown, what does that mean for every body else? That the levels will go down a little bit? There's still going to be water and its still going to be flooded. And what good will it do even if the water goes down. Everything is pretty much destroyed already. Because I, as well as many other people, have been screwed, I don't think that justifies screwing down town BKK. The victims in the other areas are already there. But the infrastructure of downtown BKK getting screwed will screw everything even worst. Water filtration, the train system, the financial and business districts. It makes sense to save what you can, and if they can save it, then do it.

At this point, however, I think this entire discussion is moot. The satelite photos of the water is just scary. I do not think it is physically possible.

:jap:

This is just another reason the old addage never invest more cash or emotional commitments in Thailand than you are prepared to walk away from .... I have two houses, sorry she! has two houses under 1 metre of water ,now over 1 month and counting ,all the garden and all the long term planting and planning screwed we have BKK refugees living with us in Hong Kong who have small businesses lost ,zero income ,and mounting debts ..... the only good point is my wife now believes my idea of retire to Penang is now a very sound one ...the only question is will I throw more money into repair and rebuilding ( planned for Chinese new year no holidays this time ) or just walk away !!!!!

Yes, good point, and I stay up through most of the night every night going over the same question.

I am totally invested in Thailand and now think that was a big mistake. I've spent most of my life in Thailand but have now lost hope in the future of the country. I think I'll hang on as long as HRH the King hangs on and when he goes I think I may find greener pastures too.

We've got to be honest with ourselves and read the writing on the wall.

Thailand is no longer clearly better than any of its neighbors and cannot compete at all with Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia.

The extent of the Taksin family's total disregard for the people of Thailand is mind boggling.

More mind boggling is that they managed to get the Thai people to buy into the Taksin plan and program and destruction of the country.

The majority of voting Thais ASKED for this masochist-saddist relationship and they are getting it with gusto. (in as much as the elections were honest)

Penang is a bit too tame for me. I'm looking for peaceful and civilized outside of Southeast Asia.

This part of the world has not turned out to be what I expected it would become.

I've bet my money on the wrong horse.

[hyperdimension]

If all 60 millions in Thailand help to open their umbrella when it rain, it can keep Thailand dry. And there will be no more flood, ever.

That sounds like something that the hare-brained Plodprasop, the Science and Technology Minister, would think of. What has been going on with those 1000 boats on the Chao Phraya river?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLeywAoX19Q

I'm now waiting for him to announce a new idea of heating the flood water to boiling point so that it can simply evaporate away.

Edited November 12, 2011 by hyperdimension

[robblok]

That is your opinion, my opinion is that it would help because water going down in a straight line at max elevation is going to move faster then water that is forced into a longer line at less elevation.

You could even simulate that in computer animation or just at a beach.

Is it feasible to flood Bangkok, no i don't think so anymore. But i just want to make it clear its is definitely going to go faster. Also by collecting the water at its lowest place and then pumping it out it would go faster then letting it go naturally without pumping.

So what i say is true that people are being sacrificed for BKK and then getting a pittance in damage compensation.

Water going through Bangkok doesn't go in a straight line and it doesn't go at a constant decreasing elevation. Bangkok has lots of little rises that the water needs to go around and troughs for the water to get caught in. There are also a few buildings in the way.

Even the very small amount of water that can go through the klongs doesn't go in straight lines, and then needs to get pumped out at the other end.

Guess what its not going in a straight line here also. But the line is at least a lot straighter as being pushed around BKK. Its is a lot of difference especially at the 1,5km a day the water does. So it could have been over much faster. 40km extra is 28 days or so.

You keep saying its not true, but im right. I now concede that its not a feasible option.But i am tired of people saying it would not go faster or BKK has nothing to do with it. Bangkok is blocking the flow off making it travel a lot further. If there were no dams it would all go faster. Just look at your elevation map of BKK.

So a tax on BKK for blocking water would be good, it might force them to make some real big canals that could help with the next flood. Let BKK pay for it.

[rogerdee123]

I am one of the people here who has a home that is already under water (Thonburi) and all the first floor possessions are damaged. The water has not gone done, but appears to either be the same or increasing. The more time my stuff is underwater, the more it is screwed from being salvageable. I would really like the flood waters to recede to minimize the damage.

The way I look at it, I am already screwed. If the water goes through downtown, what does that mean for every body else? That the levels will go down a little bit? There's still going to be water and its still going to be flooded. And what good will it do even if the water goes down. Everything is pretty much destroyed already. Because I, as well as many other people, have been screwed, I don't think that justifies screwing down town BKK. The victims in the other areas are already there. But the infrastructure of downtown BKK getting screwed will screw everything even worst. Water filtration, the train system, the financial and business districts. It makes sense to save what you can, and if they can save it, then do it.

At this point, however, I think this entire discussion is moot. The satelite photos of the water is just scary. I do not think it is physically possible.

:jap:

This is just another reason the old addage never invest more cash or emotional commitments in Thailand than you are prepared to walk away from .... I have two houses, sorry she! has two houses under 1 metre of water ,now over 1 month and counting ,all the garden and all the long term planting and planning screwed we have BKK refugees living with us in Hong Kong who have small businesses lost ,zero income ,and mounting debts ..... the only good point is my wife now believes my idea of retire to Penang is now a very sound one ...the only question is will I throw more money into repair and rebuilding ( planned for Chinese new year no holidays this time ) or just walk away !!!!!

Yes, good point, and I stay up through most of the night every night going over the same question.

I am totally invested in Thailand and now think that was a big mistake. I've spent most of my life in Thailand but have now lost hope in the future of the country. I think I'll hang on as long as HRH the King hangs on and when he goes I think I may find greener pastures too.

We've got to be honest with ourselves and read the writing on the wall.

Thailand is no longer clearly better than any of its neighbors and cannot compete at all with Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia.

The extent of the Taksin family's total disregard for the people of Thailand is mind boggling.

More mind boggling is that they managed to get the Thai people to buy into the Taksin plan and program and destruction of the country.

The majority of voting Thais ASKED for this masochist-saddist relationship and they are getting it with gusto. (in as much as the elections were honest)

Penang is a bit too tame for me. I'm looking for peaceful and civilized outside of Southeast Asia.

This part of the world has not turned out to be what I expected it would become.

I've bet my money on the wrong horse.

me too. Actually now I'm a few hundred kms from Bkk and renting. But we lived there in Bkk before for more than two decades and have been looking for a place to buy in Bkk or the suburbs (including Thonburi) ... looking and debating .... house or condo .... for more than 3 years now. Sorry this post is not meant to gloat. The wife and I are now having second and third thoughts about the LOS. The issue mentioned regarding HM etc is also a big one. I've been around Asia long enough to see the Philippines once among the most desirable, become amongst the least desirable, this is despite their retirement benefits for expats. In the 50's Burma was also there on the top ... and look at it now. When we first came here, there weren't many foreigners here and the main foreign exchange earner was tapioca. So we've seen Thailand 'rise' so to speak. And it feels like home. But this flood experience and the political scene in Thailand (which this flood highlights) makes me think that it could be on a slow downward spiral. And I suspect we'll be considering other places now.