Clinton Offers Flood Help To Thailand

[Bakseedaa]

Clinton offers flood help to Thailand

HONOLULU, November 11, 2011 (AFP) - Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Thursday that she would offer US assistance to flood-hit Thailand on a visit next week but wanted to see what the kingdom's leaders needed.

.

What Thailand needs is a new PM and new competent government

Agreed , but will never happen..!

[Nisa]

<br />

The US Navy initially sent an aircraft carrier but it left after American officials said that Thailand's powerful military did not request assistance.

<br /><br />The AFP is repeating its previous statements (with slight enhancements here) which were debunked by the American Ambassador already.<br /><br /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

I missed the debunking.

Did the Thai government ask for help and the US refused to help. Or did the air craft carrier just come here look around and leave with out offering to help or did it in fact not come here at all?

When the US Navy was ready to help the Thai Govt didn't accept.

The (unwritten) reason was, the Navy would have worked with/thru the Thai military and the THai Govt was at that time trying to keep the military out of the relief effort. IF they allowed the US Navy help, the Thai Military would have been at the forefront of the relief effort instead of Yingluck and FROC.

The US Military trains with the Thai military, not only in war games but for emergency disaster relief. Their "partner" in Thailand (and most other countries) is the local Military.

This was near a month ago that the the Aircraft Carrier arrived uninvited and since then, I really don't know of any need Thailand has had for an Aircraft Carrier. There are tons of other military ships and personal in and around Thailand all the time and in fact the the Thai government has been using the US Navy helicopters to get aerial pictures.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-15503346

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/1161562/1/.html

[OzMick]

With so many Americans in the threshold range of poverty and 9-10% unemployment and massive popular sentiment to both cut spending and create jobs at home, the secretary should be very cautious about how she "offers" US taxpayer money to aid a place like Thailand. <snip>

The US knows its friends around the globe, just as itself, will likely have crises' and already budget for such things. Secondly the aid will not be in the form of cash but would be resources. There are numerous non-profit agencies in the United States that the government can also work with in coordinating aid. It would be absolutely ridiculous for the richest nation in the world not to lend a hand to their friends during such a huge disaster.

The US has over $20 Billion invested in Thailand businesses. Thailand is not just a strong trading partner of the US with US exports to Thailand rising considerably these last years but Thailand continues to work closely and be a strong ally of the US when it comes to terrorism and drug trafficking. Thailand is also situated near a number of communist countries as well as military dictatorship. Bottom line is Thailand is a strong and important alley of the United States.

Thailand has aided and fought with the US in Vietnam and Korea as well as supporting operations after 9/11 and participating in the Iraq war and rebuilding efforts in Afganastan and Iraq as well as serving as a logistics hub for operations. Not to mention Thailand provided assistance to the US during Katrina that including 60 doctors.

When discussing Thailand's contributions to the VietNam War, you should remember the R&R centres, especially the one in Nakhon Phanom for war weary NVA. Thai friendship doesn't stand in the way of money-making.

[Buchholz]

I really don't know of any need Thailand has had for an Aircraft Carrier. There are tons of other military ships and personal in and around Thailand all the time and in fact the the Thai government has been using the US Navy helicopters to get aerial pictures.

For starters, Thailand sure could have used the one and half million liters of drinking water per day available from the carrier task force. The medical resources could have easily helped out as well as the thousands of meals it can prepare.

There are not "tons" of other military ships/personnel in Thailand. It's one small ship with a few hundred guys and 2 helicopters.

.

[erobando]

The US has over $20 Billion invested in Thailand businesses. Thailand is not just a strong trading partner of the US with US exports to Thailand rising considerably these last years but Thailand continues to work closely and be a strong ally of the US when it comes to terrorism and drug trafficking. Thailand is also situated near a number of communist countries as well as military dictatorship. Bottom line is Thailand is a strong and important alley of the United States.

Thailand has aided and fought with the US in Vietnam and Korea as well as supporting operations after 9/11 and participating in the Iraq war and rebuilding efforts in Afganastan and Iraq as well as serving as a logistics hub for operations. Not to mention Thailand provided assistance to the US during Katrina that including 60 doctors.

The bolded part hasn't been relevant for 20 years. The US engages in joint military activities with Vietnam, too. The military dictatorship (I assume Myanmar) is irrelevant.

The US is interested in a strong Thailand (and Vietnam and others in the area) because it helps provide some balance of power versus China... but the type of government isn't important.

And certainly business investments are the most important reasons for US interest.

Edited November 11, 2011 by metisdead
Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes.

[Nisa]

I really don't know of any need Thailand has had for an Aircraft Carrier. There are tons of other military ships and personal in and around Thailand all the time and in fact the the Thai government has been using the US Navy helicopters to get aerial pictures.

For starters, Thailand sure could have used the one and half million liters of drinking water per day available from the carrier task force. The medical resources could have easily helped out as well as the thousands of meals it can prepare.

There are not "tons" of other military ships/personnel in Thailand. It's one small ship with a few hundred guys and 2 helicopters.

.

There are numerous US warships in and around Thailand (a day or two away) all the time.

Thailand can produce considerably more (and adequate amounts) drinking water per day. Also, nobody is dying from lack of water. It is just a pain to get and not as readily available in some areas. None of this would change with the addition of the carrier producing some drinking water in the Gulf.

By the way, theUSS George Washington has ftour distilling units that together can make 400,000 U.S. gallons (1,500,000 L) of potable water a day. There is a crew of 6,000. I'm sure they conserve water but am also sure that water is needed for a number of things aboard the ship beyond personnel use. The average person in the US consumes 123 gallons (466 liters) per day. If the personel on the ship use 50% of the average person on land and there is no other need for this water then this would equal 369,000 gallons of water or leave about 30,000 extra gallons a day in an area where there is no flooding..

I have no idea how much water the ship and its crew need but the bottom line is what is left is not all that much compared to the fact water is still being produced (as well as food) all over Thailand at a much huger rate and the airport is open able to accept plane loads of water and food every hour if needed. Doesn't seem like justification to have a US aircraft carrier here and have the US military (who don't speak Thai) causing more confusion among the people in a country (like so many) that don't like to see foreign military operating in their cities.

They came (uninvited) at a time when people were talking about ALL of Bangkok being flooded by 1.5 meters of water ... this was almost a month ago. At this point it seems fairly clear that Thailand has not needed the assistance of a US Naval Carrier when comparing the issues it would bring as well as the fact they can get it or another back fairly quickly if needed.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Nisa

[bigbamboo]

Every nation in the world takes care of itself first, that's the nature of politics. Whether it's an alliance or assistance there is always a trade off. Your friend today can be your enemy tomorrow.

Edited November 11, 2011 by bigbamboo

[puntmeister]

Im not bashing americans. I have met a few good ones but its there goverments intentions that are very worriying. Thank god Thailand doesnt have lots of oil

That's right, Thailand doesn't have lots of oil - so there goes the "blood for oil" conspiracy.

So what DOES America want, in exchange for help?

Mangos?

In any event - you need to polish up your philosophical understanding of humanity, nations, and inter-personal/inter-national relations.

No one is altruistic. NO ONE. (which makes the whole vilianization of America, or any other nation, hypocritical)

That said, there is a thing called 'compassion', which inspires people (and nations) to help others, with no expectation of any tangible reward.

[ralfbkk]

Those who bash the Americans are the same who bash the Thai Government. Those are the same who sit at home in mischief complaining about the fact there is a shortage of Beer Chang and that their Aircons dont work properly. Couch Potato's bashing hiding behind their laptops, miserable about the fact that they are to lazy to help and to bored to get up and do something.

Most Americans, especially those hard working individuals from our low to middle class, have a good heart. Those give a rats tail about all this bashing. They stand up and help, without asking questions or asking for oil.

YES, the Chinese, the Japanese, yes, the Russians, the Germans, the Malays, oh yes, the Turks and Ukrainians and so many others helped and continue to help the Kingdom and so did the United States. Just because they have another way of doing it or presenting themselves does not mean they are not doing it by heart.

Of course, we are loud, noisy, rumble around.....this is our, the American, way.

Now go and get your next Chang!

[noitom]

With so many Americans in the threshold range of poverty and 9-10% unemployment and massive popular sentiment to both cut spending and create jobs at home, the secretary should be very cautious about how she "offers" US taxpayer money to aid a place like Thailand. <snip>

The US knows its friends around the globe, just as itself, will likely have crises' and already budget for such things. Secondly the aid will not be in the form of cash but would be resources. There are numerous non-profit agencies in the United States that the government can also work with in coordinating aid. It would be absolutely ridiculous for the richest nation in the world not to lend a hand to their friends during such a huge disaster.

The US has over $20 Billion invested in Thailand businesses. Thailand is not just a strong trading partner of the US with US exports to Thailand rising considerably these last years but Thailand continues to work closely and be a strong ally of the US when it comes to terrorism and drug trafficking. Thailand is also situated near a number of communist countries as well as military dictatorship. Bottom line is Thailand is a strong and important alley of the United States.

Thailand has aided and fought with the US in Vietnam and Korea as well as supporting operations after 9/11 and participating in the Iraq war and rebuilding efforts in Afganastan and Iraq as well as serving as a logistics hub for operations. Not to mention Thailand provided assistance to the US during Katrina that including 60 doctors.

You sort of went off topic here. The idea is to "lend a hand" for the flood, but to be sure that if resources that can be converted to cash are provided, that they be monitored and accounted for so as not to end up lining the pockets of traditional pocket liners on the US taxpayer nickle. Again off topic, but just to clarify, the US runs a trade deficit with Thailand with exports about $8 Billion and imports about $22 Billion, and the $20Billion invested in business is a figure that seems very misty, but depending on how you count, may be so. Nevertheless it's way off the topic of being sure to account for resources "lent as a hand." The Vietnam War essentially was Thailand's vehicle to siphon off extensive funding provided by the US in return for the use of U-Tapao airport as well as troop and supply staging. And Thailand was quick to seize the opportunity and to provide numerous "fee based services" for the troops and boost its black underground economy. This while convincing the gullible US that their own populist movement in the north was communist inspired and could no longer be defended by the Village Scouts alone. Thailand did have 1,300 troops engaged in combat in Korea, substantially less than Ethiopia and other smaller non-Asian nations. The Korean War was the US coming to the aid of Japan, S Korea, the Philippines, Thailand..etc.. Not Thailand coming to the aid of the US. The US was interested in Thailand in World War II, but Thailand decided to align with Japan for the war when they invaded Prachuap Khiri Khan. I lived in New York and worked downtown one block from the WTC and was not aware of any Thais "supporting" the 9/11 recovery. For Katrina, Thailand "offered" but never sent 60 doctors and "rice, as a gesture of heart." - but most of this is off topic, and needed a little clarification. The aircraft carrier that the US proposed for flood support more than a month ago had power generators, water pumps, food, water, medical resources, boats, helicopters, and more, and was rebuffed by the Thai government.

[puntmeister]

Those who bash the Americans are the same who bash the Thai Government. Those are the same who sit at home in mischief complaining about the fact there is a shortage of Beer Chang and that their Aircons dont work properly. Couch Potato's bashing hiding behind their laptops, miserable about the fact that they are to lazy to help and to bored to get up and do something.

Most Americans, especially those hard working individuals from our low to middle class, have a good heart. Those give a rats tail about all this bashing. They stand up and help, without asking questions or asking for oil.

YES, the Chinese, the Japanese, yes, the Russians, the Germans, the Malays, oh yes, the Turks and Ukrainians and so many others helped and continue to help the Kingdom and so did the United States. Just because they have another way of doing it or presenting themselves does not mean they are not doing it by heart.

Of course, we are loud, noisy, rumble around.....this is our, the American, way.

Now go and get your next Chang!

You haven't spent much time in the Bangkok and Pattaya bars, have you? The Brits are much, much louder.

[Nisa]

With so many Americans in the threshold range of poverty and 9-10% unemployment and massive popular sentiment to both cut spending and create jobs at home, the secretary should be very cautious about how she "offers" US taxpayer money to aid a place like Thailand. <snip>

The US knows its friends around the globe, just as itself, will likely have crises' and already budget for such things. Secondly the aid will not be in the form of cash but would be resources. There are numerous non-profit agencies in the United States that the government can also work with in coordinating aid. It would be absolutely ridiculous for the richest nation in the world not to lend a hand to their friends during such a huge disaster.

The US has over $20 Billion invested in Thailand businesses. Thailand is not just a strong trading partner of the US with US exports to Thailand rising considerably these last years but Thailand continues to work closely and be a strong ally of the US when it comes to terrorism and drug trafficking. Thailand is also situated near a number of communist countries as well as military dictatorship. Bottom line is Thailand is a strong and important alley of the United States.

Thailand has aided and fought with the US in Vietnam and Korea as well as supporting operations after 9/11 and participating in the Iraq war and rebuilding efforts in Afganastan and Iraq as well as serving as a logistics hub for operations. Not to mention Thailand provided assistance to the US during Katrina that including 60 doctors.

You sort of went off topic here. The idea is to "lend a hand" for the flood, but to be sure that if resources that can be converted to cash are provided, that they be monitored and accounted for so as not to end up lining the pockets of traditional pocket liners on the US taxpayer nickle. Again off topic, but just to clarify, the US runs a trade deficit with Thailand with exports about $8 Billion and imports about $22 Billion, and the $20Billion invested in business is a figure that seems very misty, but depending on how you count, may be so. Nevertheless it's way off the topic of being sure to account for resources "lent as a hand." The Vietnam War essentially was Thailand's vehicle to siphon off extensive funding provided by the US in return for the use of U-Tapao airport as well as troop and supply staging. And Thailand was quick to seize the opportunity and to provide numerous "fee based services" for the troops and boost its black underground economy. This while convincing the gullible US that their own populist movement in the north was communist inspired and could no longer be defended by the Village Scouts alone. Thailand did have 1,300 troops engaged in combat in Korea, substantially less than Ethiopia and other smaller non-Asian nations. The Korean War was the US coming to the aid of Japan, S Korea, the Philippines, Thailand..etc.. Not Thailand coming to the aid of the US. The US was interested in Thailand in World War II, but Thailand decided to align with Japan for the war when they invaded Prachuap Khiri Khan. I lived in New York and worked downtown one block from the WTC and was not aware of any Thais "supporting" the 9/11 recovery. For Katrina, Thailand "offered" but never sent 60 doctors and "rice, as a gesture of heart." - but most of this is off topic, and needed a little clarification. The aircraft carrier that the US proposed for flood support more than a month ago had power generators, water pumps, food, water, medical resources, boats, helicopters, and more, and was rebuffed by the Thai government.

One can only imagine why the US has considered Thailand such a good ally for so long. You should let the US Government know all these things as they clearly don't understand the situation. Hopefully your great insight will allow them to see the truth and instead of sending aid they can declare war.

Edit: I'll run my next post by you to make sure you approve it is on topic since clearly. I thought giving some reasons why the US would provide aid to Thailand was on topic but clearly I am just as confused as the US and need your guidance too.

If only world leaders would spend more time reading the posts on ThaiVisa ... the world would be perfect.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Nisa

[OzMick]

I really don't know of any need Thailand has had for an Aircraft Carrier. There are tons of other military ships and personal in and around Thailand all the time and in fact the the Thai government has been using the US Navy helicopters to get aerial pictures.

For starters, Thailand sure could have used the one and half million liters of drinking water per day available from the carrier task force. The medical resources could have easily helped out as well as the thousands of meals it can prepare.

There are not "tons" of other military ships/personnel in Thailand. It's one small ship with a few hundred guys and 2 helicopters.

.

There are numerous US warships in and around Thailand (a day or two away) all the time.

Thailand can produce considerably more (and adequate amounts) drinking water per day. Also, nobody is dying from lack of water. It is just a pain to get and not as readily available in some areas. None of this would change with the addition of the carrier producing some drinking water in the Gulf.

By the way, theUSS George Washington has ftour distilling units that together can make 400,000 U.S. gallons (1,500,000 L) of potable water a day. There is a crew of 6,000. I'm sure they conserve water but am also sure that water is needed for a number of things aboard the ship beyond personnel use. The average person in the US consumes 123 gallons (466 liters) per day. If the personel on the ship use 50% of the average person on land and there is no other need for this water then this would equal 369,000 gallons of water or leave about 30,000 extra gallons a day in an area where there is no flooding..

I have no idea how much water the ship and its crew need but the bottom line is what is left is not all that much compared to the fact water is still being produced (as well as food) all over Thailand at a much huger rate and the airport is open able to accept plane loads of water and food every hour if needed. Doesn't seem like justification to have a US aircraft carrier here and have the US military (who don't speak Thai) causing more confusion among the people in a country (like so many) that don't like to see foreign military operating in their cities.

They came (uninvited) at a time when people were talking about ALL of Bangkok being flooded by 1.5 meters of water ... this was almost a month ago. At this point it seems fairly clear that Thailand has not needed the assistance of a US Naval Carrier when comparing the issues it would bring as well as the fact they can get it or another back fairly quickly if needed.

Pluck some figures from the air, multiply them using fudge factors based on SFA, and come up with a definitive answer. Even if I accept your average US usage, which would include such uses as swimming pools, lawn watering, hot tubs, car washing etc ad infinitum, none of which apply to sailors at sea, you don't allow for shore leave or any of the other factors that may come into play.

Thailand is importing, and paying, for drinking water. A source of FREE drinking water, helicopters, manpower, medical staff was rejected. No real grounds for this rejection has come to light.

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[Buchholz]

There are numerous US warships in and around Thailand (a day or two away) all the time.

Can you name five for example?

Thailand can produce considerably more (and adequate amounts) drinking water per day. Also, nobody is dying from lack of water. It is just a pain to get and not as readily available in some areas. None of this would change with the addition of the carrier producing some drinking water in the Gulf.

If they can produce it, it's certainly not available on shelves from Buriram to Chumphon, and there wouldn't be need for announcements such as:

and an additional 1.5 million liters could certainly go a long way in improving its availability.

By the way, theUSS George Washington has ftour distilling units that together can make 400,000 U.S. gallons (1,500,000 L) of potable water a day. There is a crew of 6,000. I'm sure they conserve water but am also sure that water is needed for a number of things aboard the ship beyond personnel use. The average person in the US consumes 123 gallons (466 liters) per day. If the personel on the ship use 50% of the average person on land and there is no other need for this water then this would equal 369,000 gallons of water or leave about 30,000 extra gallons a day in an area where there is no flooding..

I have no idea how much water the ship and its crew need but the bottom line is what is left is not all that much

Not sure where your irrelevant U.S. consumer at home figures come from, but I can guarantee you that every sailor onboard ship doesn't consume 466 liters of drinking water per day. Even counting all uses, it's no where near that amount. Even lopping off a half million liters per day would leave a million liters available for Thailand. Add to that amount the four other ships of the carrier task force and it's a huge amount.

They came (uninvited) at a time when people were talking about ALL of Bangkok being flooded by 1.5 meters of water ... this was almost a month ago. At this point it seems fairly clear that Thailand has not needed the assistance of a US Naval Carrier when comparing the issues it would bring as well as the fact they can get it or another back fairly quickly if needed.

Yes, it was very rude of them to respond to a national calamity uninvited.

And yes, it's not like there have been any problems with delivery of food and water or providing medical care to the millions afflicted by this on-going crisis. Everything is running smoothly and no assistance is necessary.

.

[lensta]

I really don't know of any need Thailand has had for an Aircraft Carrier. There are tons of other military ships and personal in and around Thailand all the time and in fact the the Thai government has been using the US Navy helicopters to get aerial pictures.

For starters, Thailand sure could have used the one and half million liters of drinking water per day available from the carrier task force. The medical resources could have easily helped out as well as the thousands of meals it can prepare.

There are not "tons" of other military ships/personnel in Thailand. It's one small ship with a few hundred guys and 2 helicopters.

.

There are numerous US warships in and around Thailand (a day or two away) all the time.

Thailand can produce considerably more (and adequate amounts) drinking water per day. Also, nobody is dying from lack of water. It is just a pain to get and not as readily available in some areas. None of this would change with the addition of the carrier producing some drinking water in the Gulf.

By the way, theUSS George Washington has ftour distilling units that together can make 400,000 U.S. gallons (1,500,000 L) of potable water a day. There is a crew of 6,000. I'm sure they conserve water but am also sure that water is needed for a number of things aboard the ship beyond personnel use. The average person in the US consumes 123 gallons (466 liters) per day. If the personel on the ship use 50% of the average person on land and there is no other need for this water then this would equal 369,000 gallons of water or leave about 30,000 extra gallons a day in an area where there is no flooding..

I have no idea how much water the ship and its crew need but the bottom line is what is left is not all that much compared to the fact water is still being produced (as well as food) all over Thailand at a much huger rate and the airport is open able to accept plane loads of water and food every hour if needed. Doesn't seem like justification to have a US aircraft carrier here and have the US military (who don't speak Thai) causing more confusion among the people in a country (like so many) that don't like to see foreign military operating in their cities.

They came (uninvited) at a time when people were talking about ALL of Bangkok being flooded by 1.5 meters of water ... this was almost a month ago. At this point it seems fairly clear that Thailand has not needed the assistance of a US Naval Carrier when comparing the issues it would bring as well as the fact they can get it or another back fairly quickly if needed.

Pluck some figures from the air, multiply them using fudge factors based on SFA, and come up with a definitive answer. Even if I accept your average US usage, which would include such uses as swimming pools, lawn watering, hot tubs, car washing etc ad infinitum, none of which apply to sailors at sea, you don't allow for shore leave or any of the other factors that may come into play.

Thailand is importing, and paying, for drinking water. A source of FREE drinking water, helicopters, manpower, medical staff was rejected. No real grounds for this rejection has come to light.

" The average person in the US consumes 123 gallons (466 liters) per day."

Wow, to consume means to eat or drink, the "average person in the US" sure likes their water.

Even if you mean they use 123 gallons per day, that is still alot of water. I would like to know where

the figures came from.

[jamora]

I wonder who will end up paying for America's help? Don't get me wrong, I think it is great that they offer to help, and I have nothing against Americans, but I do not like they way the American Government cannot control their debt. Is it ethically correct to borrow from abroad so you can help another country?

EDIT: But then again, is it any better that the countries than CAN afford helping do nothing?

Edited November 11, 2011 by jamora

[gl555]

Educate us on what the American intentions are. Seriously, rather then just talking shit and implying there's something sinister going on when someone else is offering to help, why don't you tell us?

Im not bashing americans. I have met a few good ones but its there goverments intentions that are very worriying. Thank god Thailand doesnt have lots of oil

[inquisitive]

I really don't know of any need Thailand has had for an Aircraft Carrier. There are tons of other military ships and personal in and around Thailand all the time and in fact the the Thai government has been using the US Navy helicopters to get aerial pictures.

For starters, Thailand sure could have used the one and half million liters of drinking water per day available from the carrier task force. The medical resources could have easily helped out as well as the thousands of meals it can prepare.

There are not "tons" of other military ships/personnel in Thailand. It's one small ship with a few hundred guys and 2 helicopters.

.

There are numerous US warships in and around Thailand (a day or two away) all the time.

Thailand can produce considerably more (and adequate amounts) drinking water per day. Also, nobody is dying from lack of water. It is just a pain to get and not as readily available in some areas. None of this would change with the addition of the carrier producing some drinking water in the Gulf.

By the way, theUSS George Washington has ftour distilling units that together can make 400,000 U.S. gallons (1,500,000 L) of potable water a day. There is a crew of 6,000. I'm sure they conserve water but am also sure that water is needed for a number of things aboard the ship beyond personnel use. The average person in the US consumes 123 gallons (466 liters) per day. If the personel on the ship use 50% of the average person on land and there is no other need for this water then this would equal 369,000 gallons of water or leave about 30,000 extra gallons a day in an area where there is no flooding..

I have no idea how much water the ship and its crew need but the bottom line is what is left is not all that much compared to the fact water is still being produced (as well as food) all over Thailand at a much huger rate and the airport is open able to accept plane loads of water and food every hour if needed. Doesn't seem like justification to have a US aircraft carrier here and have the US military (who don't speak Thai) causing more confusion among the people in a country (like so many) that don't like to see foreign military operating in their cities.

They came (uninvited) at a time when people were talking about ALL of Bangkok being flooded by 1.5 meters of water ... this was almost a month ago. At this point it seems fairly clear that Thailand has not needed the assistance of a US Naval Carrier when comparing the issues it would bring as well as the fact they can get it or another back fairly quickly if needed.

So it's your assumption that the crew from the aircraft carrier would have been billeted on land rather than continuing to stay aboard, and that's why Thailand should lets its people suffer unassisted? Yes, thousands of sailors suddenly looking for hotel rooms could have presented some problems ... all of which could be fixed with a single order. And it's also your thought that if Thailand can produce water on its own then it would never have any use for more? But don't I remember there being joy when it was announced that Thailand would receive a shipment of desperately needed bottled water from its neighbor a week or so ago? How was that water different?

As to your contention that no one is dying from lack of water, I'd have to say that is as flawed as your calculations based on an average American drinking 466 liters of water per day. The concern about the water is not death from thirst, since all the victims of the flood are literally surrounded by water, but rather it is death by water-borne disease contracted by drinking tainted water. Sadly, though these victims are literally afloat in water, they usually are not able to boil or otherwise decontaminate that same water enough to safely ingest the stuff.

And you know what else? Let's just say that it would be possible for Thailand to take care of every problem in this disaster by itself. I happen to believe that it can. But what would your problem be with taking help to get things fixed sooner? How many people have already died while waiting? Is it your contention that it is better that they lost their lives rather than have to say thank you? If your point is that Thailand is capable of managing to somehow survive this disaster in isolation, and therefore it should pay any price to avoid accepting help, well then you're going to have to show me the downside a whole lot better than your posting before I agree that its worth a single life (even yours, though I don't believe I read the part where you volunteered to be a martyr for this cause). Please try to be balanced. This is not a competition. Nobody "wins" a flood; there can only be losers. Can Thailand's pride be so fragile and its self-respect so small that you consider help to be a bad thing?

[Nisa]

I really don't know of any need Thailand has had for an Aircraft Carrier. There are tons of other military ships and personal in and around Thailand all the time and in fact the the Thai government has been using the US Navy helicopters to get aerial pictures.

For starters, Thailand sure could have used the one and half million liters of drinking water per day available from the carrier task force. The medical resources could have easily helped out as well as the thousands of meals it can prepare.

There are not "tons" of other military ships/personnel in Thailand. It's one small ship with a few hundred guys and 2 helicopters.

.

There are numerous US warships in and around Thailand (a day or two away) all the time.

Thailand can produce considerably more (and adequate amounts) drinking water per day. Also, nobody is dying from lack of water. It is just a pain to get and not as readily available in some areas. None of this would change with the addition of the carrier producing some drinking water in the Gulf.

By the way, theUSS George Washington has ftour distilling units that together can make 400,000 U.S. gallons (1,500,000 L) of potable water a day. There is a crew of 6,000. I'm sure they conserve water but am also sure that water is needed for a number of things aboard the ship beyond personnel use. The average person in the US consumes 123 gallons (466 liters) per day. If the personel on the ship use 50% of the average person on land and there is no other need for this water then this would equal 369,000 gallons of water or leave about 30,000 extra gallons a day in an area where there is no flooding..

I have no idea how much water the ship and its crew need but the bottom line is what is left is not all that much compared to the fact water is still being produced (as well as food) all over Thailand at a much huger rate and the airport is open able to accept plane loads of water and food every hour if needed. Doesn't seem like justification to have a US aircraft carrier here and have the US military (who don't speak Thai) causing more confusion among the people in a country (like so many) that don't like to see foreign military operating in their cities.

They came (uninvited) at a time when people were talking about ALL of Bangkok being flooded by 1.5 meters of water ... this was almost a month ago. At this point it seems fairly clear that Thailand has not needed the assistance of a US Naval Carrier when comparing the issues it would bring as well as the fact they can get it or another back fairly quickly if needed.

Pluck some figures from the air, multiply them using fudge factors based on SFA, and come up with a definitive answer. Even if I accept your average US usage, which would include such uses as swimming pools, lawn watering, hot tubs, car washing etc ad infinitum, none of which apply to sailors at sea, you don't allow for shore leave or any of the other factors that may come into play.

Thailand is importing, and paying, for drinking water. A source of FREE drinking water, helicopters, manpower, medical staff was rejected. No real grounds for this rejection has come to light.

As I clearly stated, I have no idea how water is used on the aircraft carrier and that is why I halved the average amount used of 123 gallons (which is a lower estimate). The point was they need to use a great deal of the water they produce on the ship. I also mentioned just a couple of the consequences and ramifications of having the US Armed forces operating in Thailand but there are many and the consequences at the time far outweighed the need. It was weeks after the ship came (uninvited) that the Thai Government announced it would import water in large part to possible future shortages. Everything that ship could offer (that is/was needed) can be got just as easily without having foreign military operating within and for Thailand.

By the way, the US National average for water use in the USA for ALL uses is183 gallons per day. Here are some numbers (again using lower estimates) of typical uses; flushing the toilet (new low flow toilets use 1.6 to 2 gallons per flush while older ones use 4 gallons), shower (2 gallons per minute new low flow, 5 gallons per minute old), brushing teeth, washing hands, dishes.... (new kitchen sink uses 2.2 gallons per minute), a new clothes washing machine uses 25 gallons while an old one uses 50 on average per wash. An outdoor hose uses 5 to 10 gallon per minutes and I mention this only because of the amount of cleaning that takes place on a carrier (small city) daily.

I will repeat, here we are almost a month later and there really has been no need to have involved them considering all the logistics and ramification their involvement would have entailed. Thailand is not without resources and is not a 3rd world country. There is nothing the carrier could have offered that could not easily be flown in and there is nothing stopping Thailand from requesting a carrier return if needed. People are inconvenienced right now but nobody is starving or dying of thirst. Before the need for a US aircraft carrier arrives, it only makes sense there would first be a need for the Thai military to be fully deployed. This is not a crisis where search and rescue teams are needed to pluck up tens of thousands of people.

I don't care what administration is in office, they would not have requested the assistance of the aircraft carrier .. especially at that time. And a request for them to leave all their water pumps, water and doctors on the pier with no other involvement or assistance would not have been accepted by the US.

[Nisa]

Let's just say that it would be possible for Thailand to take care of every problem in this disaster by itself. I happen to believe that it can. But what would your problem be with taking help to get things fixed sooner?

Thailand is getting ALL sorts of help from many countries. Have you not been reading the news about goods coming in by plane as well as having all sorts of flood experts here? There is a HUGE difference between getting aid from foreign individuals, agencies and countries than requesting the aid of foreign military on your soil .... especially when you have not even called up your own military yet.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Amazing ... Clinton says she will ask what assistance the US can provide and much of the responses here are either to slam the US or Thailand or both.

Leave it to the doom and gloomers here to find a cloud in every silver lining.

[Nisa]

For Katrina, Thailand "offered" but never sent 60 doctors and "rice, as a gesture of heart."

As far as I know they were sent but I could be wrong ...

Thailand: Sent at least 60 doctors and nurses along with rice. (

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina

)

Thailand Has sent at least 60 doctors and nurses along with rice. (

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/dis_hur_kat_int_aid_res-hurricane-katrina-international-aid-response

)

IF they did not go it was because the US Government rejected the offer. Just as the Japanese rejected the offer from a number of countries offering non-military aid after the Tsunami & earthquake. Sound familiar? It simply is not uncommon to reject aid (especially foreign) during a crisis because it often can cause more problems ... let alone accepting military aid from a foreign country on your own soil.

[hanzilavoka]

What do they want in return?

or is it just to show dumb people that america is such a great country that helps everyone.

I remember when i was a kid and i always thought americans were the good guys. How wrong was i.

Well said

[Rimmer]

One post discussing moderation removed

[rijb]

What do they want in return?

or is it just to show dumb people that america is such a great country that helps everyone.

I remember when i was a kid and i always thought americans were the good guys. How wrong was i.

Well said

Well trolled

[OzMick]

As I clearly stated, I have no idea how water is used on the aircraft carrier and that is why I halved the average amount used of 123 gallons (which is a lower estimate). The point was they need to use a great deal of the water they produce on the ship. I also mentioned just a couple of the consequences and ramifications of having the US Armed forces operating in Thailand but there are many and the consequences at the time far outweighed the need. It was weeks after the ship came (uninvited) that the Thai Government announced it would import water in large part to possible future shortages. Everything that ship could offer (that is/was needed) can be got just as easily without having foreign military operating within and for Thailand.

By the way, the US National average for water use in the USA for ALL uses is183 gallons per day. Here are some numbers (again using lower estimates) of typical uses; flushing the toilet (new low flow toilets use 1.6 to 2 gallons per flush while older ones use 4 gallons), shower (2 gallons per minute new low flow, 5 gallons per minute old), brushing teeth, washing hands, dishes.... (new kitchen sink uses 2.2 gallons per minute), a new clothes washing machine uses 25 gallons while an old one uses 50 on average per wash. An outdoor hose uses 5 to 10 gallon per minutes and I mention this only because of the amount of cleaning that takes place on a carrier (small city) daily.

I will repeat, here we are almost a month later and there really has been no need to have involved them considering all the logistics and ramification their involvement would have entailed. Thailand is not without resources and is not a 3rd world country. There is nothing the carrier could have offered that could not easily be flown in and there is nothing stopping Thailand from requesting a carrier return if needed. People are inconvenienced right now but nobody is starving or dying of thirst. Before the need for a US aircraft carrier arrives, it only makes sense there would first be a need for the Thai military to be fully deployed. This is not a crisis where search and rescue teams are needed to pluck up tens of thousands of people.

I don't care what administration is in office, they would not have requested the assistance of the aircraft carrier .. especially at that time. And a request for them to leave all their water pumps, water and doctors on the pier with no other involvement or assistance would not have been accepted by the US.

You have no idea, so you halved the figure that has no relevance, and that's close enough? Let's see, SHIPS flush toilets and wash down decks with salt water for obvious reasons, and sailors have their clothes and dishes washed in commercial-style facilities that are far more water efficient than home appliances.

If you check the TV threads, you will find an announcement that Thailand would import drinking water the NEXT DAY after the carrier thread.

Of course Thais are very sensitive about US military operating within their borders, that's why they have joint exercises every year. Now tell me that they don't speak Thai and all the Thai translators are busy working in Pattaya bars.

Name one Thai who would say "We were wrong, please bring the carrier back, we need it badly." they'd rather drown in their own sewerage.

[SteeleJoe]

The US Navy initially sent an aircraft carrier but it left after American officials said that Thailand's powerful military did not request assistance.

The AFP is repeating its previous statements (with slight enhancements here) which were debunked by the American Ambassador already.

Actually it was denied by the Ambassador -- quite different from being debunked (proven false); it has not been debunked.

[inquisitive]

Thailand is not without resources and is not a 3rd world country.

Methinks she doth protest too much.

Setting aside laughable mathmatical gymnastics that include sailors on a ship watering their lawns, the core problem with your analysis is that you display a complex about how Thailand does not receive enough respect. This concern seems to be severe enough that you would rather have people continue to die rather than risk Thailand appearing weak or vulnerable.

I have bad news for you, my friend, but any nation (including the US) can use outside assistance from time to time. Get over it. And help your brothers wherever they may be, even if the best way to help is to allow others to assist. You can be sure that the family suffering from drinking tainted water would not give a rat's tail as to where the safe water comes from. Fighting over whose name will be on the bottle is totally unacceptable, and if you have an milligram of compassion or decency you would realize this. You apparantly think that people should die to show just what size testicles the government has, but first maybe you should go out and drink some floodwater so that someone else can have your share of safe water. And when you're waiting for a helicopter to fetch your diseased and dying body from some rooftop surrounded by polluted waters filled with crocodiles, snakes, and disease, then perhaps you should give your place to someone else so that the country won't need rescue helicopters with the wrong markings on the side. And maybe you can do the work of the hundreds of men that could have easily been dispatched to help from just this one ship, so that the water could be directed so that tens of thousands of Thai people could now have jobs.

Or maybe you've already done all this and have earned the right to send others to their deaths in the name of honor. You didn't mention.

Get some balance, my friend. People ARE dying. Over 500 at last count. And the health epidemic is only starting.

[metisdead]

Troll posts have been removed.