A Corrupt Nation: Thai Opinion

[Farang0tang]

Education is being used a lot here as if it is some catch-all cure for the situation.

I don't see it as that or even central. Someone has to take some action.

A few years ago a journalist suggested a day when everyone refused to pay the police "fines" - I believe they were killed.

If a day like this happened it would strike at the very base of this tower of corruption and the whole thing would collapse. THat would be enough to "educate" not just the people but the corrupt too.

Too bad, just missed the "International Anti-Corruption Day" - it was yesterday!

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/frontpage/international-anti-corruption-day.html

[xthAi76s]

I'm reading a book: Working with the Thais -- A Guide to Managing in Thailand.

The book talks much about culture and the differences that makes the Thais -- Thai.

There would seem many cultural challenges within Thailand that create a perfect environment for this kind of corruption.

1st up: Power Distance Index

Thais rank rather highly in this index which is a measure of the extent to which Thais accept that power is distributed unequally and that they expect and prefer greater hierarchical gaps among members of society.

2nd up: Collectivism and a focus on Relationship Building

Thais rank near the top in this aspect. Their life focus tends to be on relationship building within the various communities or circles to which they belong.

3rd up: Conflict Avoidance

Thais rank very high in this category as well.

4th up: Know Your Place And Like IT which is tied into the Mai Bpen Rai attitude

The Thai expression 'Boon Tham Kam Taeng' means your current status is due to your karma. In other words, you really cannot do much to control your place in society and on the planet as where you are currently is due to past lives you've lived.

When you add all these things up, it's really a perfect storm for ineptitude and corruption. Once the authoritarian head of any section of society falls for darker elements of human greed, indeed the whole of society (more-or-less) goes with him. When learning about Thai culture, I'm almost tempted to think that much of these cultural rules evolved to protect the rich and powerful from the vast poor peasantry. You know, things like "you should accept your lot in life" because "it's not really changeable much" ... "because of who you are/were in past lives and who your family were in past lives". Something of a Caste system indeed. Most all civilizations had similar systems at some point, but most of us seemed to have snapped out of it with the Europeans leading the way. I would imagine that the civilizations of very old in Europe and even other now modern older countries had similar problems of corruption, ineptitude and greed.

It's gonna take education and a belief that you can move your lot in life to help change these things. But, as of now, the system of culture here has a perfect stranglehold on Thais inability to change things. Why would you change something that is perfect for reasons you can't understand because they are totally out of your control? What a dilemma.

I agree to a certain extent with what you and the book say, but you need to be very wary of these "guides" to Thailand as they are largely by people who are unqualified in this field - they draw their conclusions from their experiences - lately personal - in business. Whereas corruption in business in rampant and as a rough guide your points might help, you really need to look closely at Thai social history and that of the nations and cultures within Thailand and the region.

THe very way that local "officials" - she weren't actually official - use to curry favour on behalf of villages has lead to an entire civil service that is based of gratuities and graft.......they also tend to have real POWER rather than be servants.

A total lack of understanding of democratic institutions and how they work and interact has also lead to the marbling of all Thai culture with an larding level of corruption that isn't even identified as corruption by many Thai people.

Yes, agreed RE the sources of info. It's not the first book I've read of it's kind. My wife has read a few in Thai. I've taken an interest in the subject for some time now. I've also discussed this at length with others in my circle -- both Thais and non-Thais. I also agree with you RE the constant exchange of social favors that drives much of the social interaction among the Thais.

And, again, I'm not passing judgement on the cultural trait as good or bad, but I do think this (I'll call some of it 'corruption') will be a challenge to Thailand's progress if it has any real ambition to progress. It may not have that ambition, and, in such a case, all my typing, I suppose, would be pretty silly -- as they go about their merry, sabai sabai lives living within a culture that they love.

There is another point I forgot which is big, and that is the following item:

5th Face (Form over Function/Content).

They are setup to be inefficient. It's simply true. As a manufacturing hub, I would imagine you can be productive while not being efficient. All this takes is to throw more cheap people/labor at the work. This is part of the reason we see literally 10 people doing the job that we think one could do without difficulty in other economies. However, once the work changes -- say, in the case of knowledge work -- labor is not cheap, and efficiency of workplace and social culture must be efficient to be competitive. Will Thailand be able to make this transition competitively? As a non-scholar on this subject, I will guess that because these issues are deeply embedded into the culture, I suspect Thailand will have much difficulty competing in that structure.

[ajarnwills]

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can. And the wisdom to know the difference. - Prayer of St. Francis -

Damnable fatalism.

No, choosing your battles, making the distinction between tilting at windmills and things you can actually accomplish is what enables having a real positive impact on the world.

Not to mention preserving the possibility of your own peace of mind - IMO essential to having a positive impact in the world - in the process.

IMO internal serenity for all is the ultimate goal of our existence here anyway , all the rest is just means to that end.

sorry but this prayer is usually used as a cop-out.

As whether one feels one is tilting at windmills or not is really a personal persecutive and God has little to do with it.

[ajarnwills]

I'm reading a book: Working with the Thais -- A Guide to Managing in Thailand.

The book talks much about culture and the differences that makes the Thais -- Thai.

There would seem many cultural challenges within Thailand that create a perfect environment for this kind of corruption.

1st up: Power Distance Index

Thais rank rather highly in this index which is a measure of the extent to which Thais accept that power is distributed unequally and that they expect and prefer greater hierarchical gaps among members of society.

2nd up: Collectivism and a focus on Relationship Building

Thais rank near the top in this aspect. Their life focus tends to be on relationship building within the various communities or circles to which they belong.

3rd up: Conflict Avoidance

Thais rank very high in this category as well.

4th up: Know Your Place And Like IT which is tied into the Mai Bpen Rai attitude

The Thai expression 'Boon Tham Kam Taeng' means your current status is due to your karma. In other words, you really cannot do much to control your place in society and on the planet as where you are currently is due to past lives you've lived.

When you add all these things up, it's really a perfect storm for ineptitude and corruption. Once the authoritarian head of any section of society falls for darker elements of human greed, indeed the whole of society (more-or-less) goes with him. When learning about Thai culture, I'm almost tempted to think that much of these cultural rules evolved to protect the rich and powerful from the vast poor peasantry. You know, things like "you should accept your lot in life" because "it's not really changeable much" ... "because of who you are/were in past lives and who your family were in past lives". Something of a Caste system indeed. Most all civilizations had similar systems at some point, but most of us seemed to have snapped out of it with the Europeans leading the way. I would imagine that the civilizations of very old in Europe and even other now modern older countries had similar problems of corruption, ineptitude and greed.

It's gonna take education and a belief that you can move your lot in life to help change these things. But, as of now, the system of culture here has a perfect stranglehold on Thais inability to change things. Why would you change something that is perfect for reasons you can't understand because they are totally out of your control? What a dilemma.

I agree to a certain extent with what you and the book say, but you need to be very wary of these "guides" to Thailand as they are largely by people who are unqualified in this field - they draw their conclusions from their experiences - lately personal - in business. Whereas corruption in business in rampant and as a rough guide your points might help, you really need to look closely at Thai social history and that of the nations and cultures within Thailand and the region.

THe very way that local "officials" - she weren't actually official - use to curry favour on behalf of villages has lead to an entire civil service that is based of gratuities and graft.......they also tend to have real POWER rather than be servants.

A total lack of understanding of democratic institutions and how they work and interact has also lead to the marbling of all Thai culture with an larding level of corruption that isn't even identified as corruption by many Thai people.

Yes, agreed RE the sources of info. It's not the first book I've read of it's kind. My wife has read a few in Thai. I've taken an interest in the subject for some time now. I've also discussed this at length with others in my circle -- both Thais and non-Thais. I also agree with you RE the constant exchange of social favors that drives much of the social interaction among the Thais.

And, again, I'm not passing judgement on the cultural trait as good or bad, but I do think this (I'll call some of it 'corruption') will be a challenge to Thailand's progress if it has any real ambition to progress. It may not have that ambition, and, in such a case, all my typing, I suppose, would be pretty silly -- as they go about their merry, sabai sabai lives living within a culture that they love.

There is another point I forgot which is big, and that is the following item:

5th Face (Form over Function/Content).

They are setup to be inefficient. It's simply true. As a manufacturing hub, I would imagine you can be productive while not being efficient. All this takes is to throw more cheap people/labor at the work. This is part of the reason we see literally 10 people doing the job that we think one could do without difficulty in other economies. However, once the work changes -- say, in the case of knowledge work -- labor is not cheap, and efficiency of workplace and social culture must be efficient to be competitive. Will Thailand be able to make this transition competitively? As a non-scholar on this subject, I will guess that because these issues are deeply embedded into the culture, I suspect Thailand will have much difficulty competing in that structure.

Yes - again I'd area. I have worked in i a wide range of industries here - training and HR and some of the mind-sets can be quite baffling at times - it can seem truly amazing that things ever get produced at all.

However an industrialised nation cannot run for long on an uneducated unskilled labour force; in the end it requires an educated populous and also develops a middle class, both of which tend to increase the cost of labour. - these two things alone will I think inevitably bring about changes - how fast or at what cost remains to be seen.

Edited December 10, 2011 by ajarnwills

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Education is being used a lot here as if it is some catch-all cure for the situation.

I don't see it as that or even central. Someone has to take some action.

A few years ago a journalist suggested a day when everyone refused to pay the police "fines" - I believe they were killed.

If a day like this happened it would strike at the very base of this tower of corruption and the whole thing would collapse. THat would be enough to "educate" not just the people but the corrupt too.

As I stated in an earlier post, the most corrupt person I know is an elementary teacher. The Thai education system (bottom to top) is saturated with corruption. For "education" to work you would have to fire virtually all of them and replace them with real teachers with real (positive) values.

[cowslip]

Education is being used a lot here as if it is some catch-all cure for the situation.

I don't see it as that or even central. Someone has to take some action.

A few years ago a journalist suggested a day when everyone refused to pay the police "fines" - I believe they were killed.

If a day like this happened it would strike at the very base of this tower of corruption and the whole thing would collapse. THat would be enough to "educate" not just the people but the corrupt too.

As I stated in an earlier post, the most corrupt person I know is an elementary teacher. The Thai education system (bottom to top) is saturated with corruption. For "education" to work you would have to fire virtually all of them and replace them with real teachers with real (positive) values.

Any government employee is in a position to be corrupt. THe entire education system is based on favour and graft - one has to question the validity of any qualification issued by that system.

It is particularly worrying when it comes to professionals such as doctors and the like........

[robsamui]

One of my pet dislikes is the Thai Education system and making all the kids pass year after year!! Doing such an injustice to the students is not at all teaching them the skills that they need to survive and get ahead in the future. It is consigning those people to the rice paddies, factories and sex industry of the future.. All to support some "hi-so" in Bangkok.

I just hope that one day the this will come back and bite those dam_n stupid teachers who all they do is collect money to allow the kids to pass.

Am disgusted as ever!

I'm pretty sure that the "no fail" or "social promotion" policy comes from the ministry of education, and not the teachers themselves. Since the parents pay for their kids to go to school here, the schools have to maintain an image. If you fail half your school every year, not only will the parents ask a lot of questions, but so would the government, who pays for these schools. Everyone wants to save face; the teachers, students and the school administration. The funny thing is, that everyone knows how this affects the students, but basically get paid to ignore it.

This is another example of how corruption is an institution here. The "smartest people" in the country who run the MOE have decided to create a system in which no one looks bad, but year after year rubber stamping laziness and ignoring the efforts of the hardworking. I think tit's a cultural thing. Fairness and honesty for the sake of doing what's right is just not important here.

It's actually not as bad as it sounds - this "no fail" system - and almost identical to the (equally silly) system in the UK.

There is a grading scale. Although nobody 'fails', employers know full well what the lower grades mean. They mean "fail" without the loss of face of having to actually state this. It's the kids with the top grades who will get the good jobs or go to further education; the kids with the lower grades will be overlooked end up on a checkout somewhere.

R

Edited December 11, 2011 by robsamui

[robsamui]

How can it be said of Thailand (which is saturated in corruption at every level, traditionally and as an ongoing and expected way of life) that "corruption is becoming more and more rampant"? I suspect that the author of this story isn't referring to the corruption per se but rather the increasing frequency over the last few years of all this attracting more and more media attention.

I can recall, back in the 1990s, reading with interest an ongoing debate in one of the main newspapers, complaining bitterly about corruption at the airport and the docks. The point of contention wasn't about the fact that there was corruption and that officials expected to be bribed. It was complaining that the costs of bribes were far more expensive at the airport and that the government should do something to even it out so that the bribes were equal at both places!

How can anyone expect a nation of kiddies in a great big sweet shop not to dip their fingers in the jars . . . ?

TIT.

R

Edited December 11, 2011 by robsamui

[cowslip]

One of my pet dislikes is the Thai Education system and making all the kids pass year after year!! Doing such an injustice to the students is not at all teaching them the skills that they need to survive and get ahead in the future. It is consigning those people to the rice paddies, factories and sex industry of the future.. All to support some "hi-so" in Bangkok.

I just hope that one day the this will come back and bite those dam_n stupid teachers who all they do is collect money to allow the kids to pass.

Am disgusted as ever!

I'm pretty sure that the "no fail" or "social promotion" policy comes from the ministry of education, and not the teachers themselves. Since the parents pay for their kids to go to school here, the schools have to maintain an image. If you fail half your school every year, not only will the parents ask a lot of questions, but so would the government, who pays for these schools. Everyone wants to save face; the teachers, students and the school administration. The funny thing is, that everyone knows how this affects the students, but basically get paid to ignore it.

This is another example of how corruption is an institution here. The "smartest people" in the country who run the MOE have decided to create a system in which no one looks bad, but year after year rubber stamping laziness and ignoring the efforts of the hardworking. I think tit's a cultural thing. Fairness and honesty for the sake of doing what's right is just not important here.

It's actually not as bad as it sounds - this "no fail" system - and almost identical to the (equally silly) system in the UK.

There is a grading scale. Although nobody 'fails', employers know full well what the lower grades mean. They mean "fail" without the loss of face of having to actually state this. It's the kids with the top grades who will get the good jobs or go to further education; the kids with the lower grades will be overlooked end up on a checkout somewhere.

R

Firstly there is FREE education for children in Thailand

THen comparing to the UK system is quite inaccurate and very misleading.

Passing or failing as a concept is not really a good way of educating as it implies that students are either "good" or "useless" in a particular area.

In the UK system assessments of the children are carried out throughout their academic career and (in theory) this means that failing is not part of the assessment.

In Thailand however they still subscribe to what is essentially a 19th century concept of education and cling to age-old ideas of "pass or fail" - however they don't fail anyone - so there is really no way of knowing how much the student has learned or how well they have done - this does the whole system a disservice including the students who do well. basically it renders any quails useless.

Edited December 11, 2011 by cowslip

[cowslip]

One of my pet dislikes is the Thai Education system and making all the kids pass year after year!! Doing such an injustice to the students is not at all teaching them the skills that they need to survive and get ahead in the future. It is consigning those people to the rice paddies, factories and sex industry of the future.. All to support some "hi-so" in Bangkok.

I just hope that one day the this will come back and bite those dam_n stupid teachers who all they do is collect money to allow the kids to pass.

Am disgusted as ever!

I'm pretty sure that the "no fail" or "social promotion" policy comes from the ministry of education, and not the teachers themselves. Since the parents pay for their kids to go to school here, the schools have to maintain an image. If you fail half your school every year, not only will the parents ask a lot of questions, but so would the government, who pays for these schools. Everyone wants to save face; the teachers, students and the school administration. The funny thing is, that everyone knows how this affects the students, but basically get paid to ignore it.

This is another example of how corruption is an institution here. The "smartest people" in the country who run the MOE have decided to create a system in which no one looks bad, but year after year rubber stamping laziness and ignoring the efforts of the hardworking. I think tit's a cultural thing. Fairness and honesty for the sake of doing what's right is just not important here.

It's actually not as bad as it sounds - this "no fail" system - and almost identical to the (equally silly) system in the UK.

There is a grading scale. Although nobody 'fails', employers know full well what the lower grades mean. They mean "fail" without the loss of face of having to actually state this. It's the kids with the top grades who will get the good jobs or go to further education; the kids with the lower grades will be overlooked end up on a checkout somewhere.

R

Firstly there is FREE education for children in Thailand

THen any comparison to the UK system is quite inaccurate and very misleading.

Passing or failing as a concept is not really a good way of educating as it implies that students are either "good" or "useless" in a particular area.

In the UK system assessments of the children are carried out throughout their academic career and (in theory) this means that failing is not part of the assessment.

In Thailand however they still subscribe to what is essentially a 19th century concept of education and cling to age-old ideas of "pass or fail" - however they don't fail anyone - so there is really no way of knowing how much the student has learned or how well they have done - this does the whole system a disservice including the students who do well. basically it renders any quals useless.

Edited December 11, 2011 by cowslip

[cowslip]

One of my pet dislikes is the Thai Education system and making all the kids pass year after year!! Doing such an injustice to the students is not at all teaching them the skills that they need to survive and get ahead in the future. It is consigning those people to the rice paddies, factories and sex industry of the future.. All to support some "hi-so" in Bangkok.

I just hope that one day the this will come back and bite those dam_n stupid teachers who all they do is collect money to allow the kids to pass.

Am disgusted as ever!

I'm pretty sure that the "no fail" or "social promotion" policy comes from the ministry of education, and not the teachers themselves. Since the parents pay for their kids to go to school here, the schools have to maintain an image. If you fail half your school every year, not only will the parents ask a lot of questions, but so would the government, who pays for these schools. Everyone wants to save face; the teachers, students and the school administration. The funny thing is, that everyone knows how this affects the students, but basically get paid to ignore it.

This is another example of how corruption is an institution here. The "smartest people" in the country who run the MOE have decided to create a system in which no one looks bad, but year after year rubber stamping laziness and ignoring the efforts of the hardworking. I think tit's a cultural thing. Fairness and honesty for the sake of doing what's right is just not important here.

It's actually not as bad as it sounds - this "no fail" system - and almost identical to the (equally silly) system in the UK.

There is a grading scale. Although nobody 'fails', employers know full well what the lower grades mean. They mean "fail" without the loss of face of having to actually state this. It's the kids with the top grades who will get the good jobs or go to further education; the kids with the lower grades will be overlooked end up on a checkout somewhere.

R

Unfortuntely their are those who still erroneously cling to the idea of failure, and consequently try to apply the concept to all sorts of things - this is contrary to the very essence of education.

If you study something for a year and learn a little as opposed to a lot - how is that "failure"? It's still more than you started with. In fact employers certainly don't look to pass or fail they look to suitability for the job in hand which might require rather 'low" achievements in some areas.

[Nontaburi]

So, how do we rid Thailand of corruption? It cannot be argues that this government is not corrupt, nor can we argue that the previous governments were not.

There are corruption indexes, yet the data collection is only indicative of a sampling of a relatively small group of individuals with their answers based on their experience. I perhaps wrongly stated that it is a well known fact that this government is more corrupt because that was based on my experiences with this government and the others. This "fact" is considered factual by myself and within my circles of communication, but others may have other knowledge/experience.

The fact is corruption is a almost every level, both within the private and public sectors. The fact is it costs Thailand dearly and must be stopped. The key is, how do we do that? It must start with the individual.

[cowslip]

So, how do we rid Thailand of corruption? It cannot be argues that this government is not corrupt, nor can we argue that the previous governments were not.

There are corruption indexes, yet the data collection is only indicative of a sampling of a relatively small group of individuals with their answers based on their experience. I perhaps wrongly stated that it is a well known fact that this government is more corrupt because that was based on my experiences with this government and the others. This "fact" is considered factual by myself and within my circles of communication, but others may have other knowledge/experience.

The fact is corruption is a almost every level, both within the private and public sectors. The fact is it costs Thailand dearly and must be stopped. The key is, how do we do that? It must start with the individual.

I'd say not so much the individual as the people.

[Debothai]

hey guys...relax a bit here...It is still a nice place to live in right?

[Debothai]

I used to purchase equipment for a company.

Quite often, the vendors offered me blank receipts so I could scam too.

Standard procedure.

as is in dubai....!!!

[cowslip]

hey guys...relax a bit here...It is still a nice place to live in right?

WHo are you addressing this to?

It would seem that despite everything written on this thread you have absolutely nothing to contribute but you still try to post something - why?

Edited December 12, 2011 by cowslip

[Macmundi]

Errrrrm........and how is this news?

Just stating the bleedin' obvious.

ehmm.. it's "Thai Opinion" not Thai News.

[thanchart]

Unfortuntely their are those who still erroneously cling to the idea of failure, and consequently try to apply the concept to all sorts of things - this is contrary to the very essence of education.

If you study something for a year and learn a little as opposed to a lot - how is that "failure"? It's still more than you started with. In fact employers certainly don't look to pass or fail they look to suitability for the job in hand which might require rather 'low" achievements in some areas.

I for one, when I hire people, am not interested in results/grades. All I care is they have graduated from a reasonable University (& don;t even have to be the top ones) and they have studied the relevant subjects that will give them sufficient basis to start the "real learning". I look for things beyond academic results to select interviewees.

And it is at the interview that I will decide if the guy/gal is worth a second look and be shortlisted. I have seen how grads with great scores know so little when it comes to doing real work. They are well-schooled,. not necessarily intelligent. I look for something different beyond good academic grades - leadership, initiative, courage to effect change and do things differently - more of rule breakers than followers. We've often heard, "think out of the box" - I actually look dor those who will challenge this and ask "what Box? Why should there even be a box?" These I seldom find in the "top" students though of course they exist and are rare. In fact I am planning to hire a scholar who use to work for me and bring him here. Others I am bringing here are not exactly top students but they are the best people I can bring here to train the locals

For me academic results only come into play if I have 2 literally "equal" candidates and I;ll probably take the one that had something "extra"

After >20 years of hiring, the above method of selection has not proven me wrong - at least not yet.

[cowslip]

Unfortuntely their are those who still erroneously cling to the idea of failure, and consequently try to apply the concept to all sorts of things - this is contrary to the very essence of education.

If you study something for a year and learn a little as opposed to a lot - how is that "failure"? It's still more than you started with. In fact employers certainly don't look to pass or fail they look to suitability for the job in hand which might require rather 'low" achievements in some areas.

I for one, when I hire people, am not interested in results/grades. All I care is they have graduated from a reasonable University (& don;t even have to be the top ones) and they have studied the relevant subjects that will give them sufficient basis to start the "real learning". I look for things beyond academic results to select interviewees.

And it is at the interview that I will decide if the guy/gal is worth a second look and be shortlisted. I have seen how grads with great scores know so little when it comes to doing real work. They are well-schooled,. not necessarily intelligent. I look for something different beyond good academic grades - leadership, initiative, courage to effect change and do things differently - more of rule breakers than followers. We've often heard, "think out of the box" - I actually look dor those who will challenge this and ask "what Box? Why should there even be a box?" These I seldom find in the "top" students though of course they exist and are rare. In fact I am planning to hire a scholar who use to work for me and bring him here. Others I am bringing here are not exactly top students but they are the best people I can bring here to train the locals

For me academic results only come into play if I have 2 literally "equal" candidates and I;ll probably take the one that had something "extra"

After >20 years of hiring, the above method of selection has not proven me wrong - at least not yet.

apart from the sound bites and cliches I'd agree except that suitability or training are not to be confused with academic ability or qualifications.

[nurofiend]

How can it be said of Thailand (which is saturated in corruption at every level, traditionally and as an ongoing and expected way of life) that "corruption is becoming more and more rampant"?

<snip

simple answer

it's a nation article and the ptp are now in power.

[cowslip]

How can it be said of Thailand (which is saturated in corruption at every level, traditionally and as an ongoing and expected way of life) that "corruption is becoming more and more rampant"?

<snip

simple answer

it's a nation article and the ptp are now in power.

or put VERY simply - the country according to international observers is getting even MORE corrupt.

[nurofiend]

How can it be said of Thailand (which is saturated in corruption at every level, traditionally and as an ongoing and expected way of life) that "corruption is becoming more and more rampant"?

<snip

simple answer

it's a nation article and the ptp are now in power.

or put VERY simply - the country according to international observers is getting even MORE corrupt.

yeah i seen the latest corruption 'scores' ... it hasn't exactly spiraled significantly down now how has it, plus considering the list was made bigger too.

it's a load of crap, it's as corrupt as ever.

[cowslip]

Article quoted:"Actually, police don't get much from collecting bribes. It is incomparable to kickbacks earned from state projects which could be worth billions or ten billions of baht."

What a statement !

So if the Thai police are corrupt but not as corrupt as Thai politicians what does it say about politicians who are also policemen?

For heavens sake! Are you not aware of how many "politicians" are also in either the police or the Armed forces? this blurring of the institutions is one of the most obvious reasons why Thailand is so corrupt and falls to operate as a democracy........ THe resulting failure of any checks and blanches between these conflicting interests

[ccarbaugh]

"Education is the cultivation of the mind

so that action is not self-centered."