Words With Irregular Tones

[ChristianPFC]

I came across these words, where the tone (according to dictionary or textbook) is different from the tone I calculate according to the tone rules.

ประโยค bprà-yòhk "sentence" second syllable should be fallig tone

สมาชิก sà-maa-chík "member" second syllable should be rising tone

เพชร pét "diamond" should be falling tone

There are a few more I don't remember at the moment. They are not marked as "irregular tone" in my textbooks or dictionaries. What's going on?

Edited December 10, 2011 by ChristianPFC

[aitch]

The ประโยค example is irregular.

There are some two syllable words where the consonant that determines the tone of the first syllable determines the tone of the second syllable as well.

This can make:

What 'should' be a Falling tone in the second syllable Low (e.g. ตำรวจ).

What 'should' be a High tone in the second syllable Low (e.g. สำเร็จ).

In these cases:

The second syllable will begin with a Sonorant (ง,ญ,ณ,น,ม,ย,ร,ล,ว,ฬ).

The second syllable will be Dead.

The first syllable will be begin with a Middle or High consonant.

[Richard W]

There are also examples where the second syllable is not dead, e.g. องุ่น [L]a[L]ngun 'grape' (neglecting tone neutralisation in the first syllable). With a high class initial consonant, their number is legion, e.g. ขนม [L]kha[R]nom 'confection'.

เพชร is something quite different. The problem is that there seems to be an objection to adding maitaikhu to Indic words. If the maitaikhu were added, there would be no problem with the writing of this irregularly developed word. (It's a doublet of วชิระ [H]wa[H]chi[H]ra, though the /i/ is a Pali addition.)

[AyG]

The ประโยค example is irregular.

There are some two syllable words where the consonant that determines the tone of the first syllable determines the tone of the second syllable as well.

This can make:

What 'should' be a Falling tone in the second syllable Low (e.g. ตำรวจ).

What 'should' be a High tone in the second syllable Low (e.g. สำเร็จ).

I'm not sure how accurate this explanation is. I always understood that ตำรวจ was irregular because it came from Khmer, and there are a handful of other, similar loan words following the same pattern.

The issue with สำเร็จ is rather that you can't have a tone mark with

I'm not sure how accurate this explanation is. I always understood that ตำรวจ was irregular because it came from Khmer, and there are a handful of other, similar words following the same pattern.

The issue with สำเร็จ is rather that you can't have a tone mark with maitaikhu, so you either show vowel length or tone - not both.

[Richard W]

สำเร็จ can't be rescued by a tone mark - it needs ho nam, as in สำหรับ [R]sam[L]rap, apparently another Khmer loan. The rule when the tone is governed by the consonant of a preceding syllable with sara am seems to be that ho nam isn't inserted when the base form is also present in Thai, the base from here being เสร็จ [L]set.

[fire69water]

I wonder if there is a list of words out there that do not entirely obey the regular tone rules. And if there is, I hope it's a short list.

[Groongthep]

Two very common ones:

เขา he, she, him, her should have a rising tone but in everyday speech it is usually pronounced like เค้า with a high tone.

and probably the most common:

ไหม the particle used at the end of questions should be pronounced with a rising tone but is normally pronounced มั้ย with a high tone.

The purists often argue that these are examples of poor Thai rather than irregular spellings but the truth is เค้า and มั้ย are so widely used that they are considered acceptable speech by just about everyone.

[ChristianPFC]

Add (di)chan to the previous post.

There are a few words in Thai that are formed by infixing - am - into another word. Thanks to my friend G for pointing this out to me on ตรวจ and ตำรวจ.

In all cases, the second syllable has an irregular tone, which was the regular tone before infixing am. The words have a similar meaning, however I can't see which shift in meaning the infix - am - imparts on them. Here the examples I came across during my studies:

เกิด gèrt [to] be born ; take birth [to] happen ; occur ; take place

กำเนิด gam-nèrt [to] be born ; give birth to ; originate [ Noun ] origin

เสร็จ sèt [to] finish ; complete ; succeed

สำเร็จ săm-rèt [to] succeed ; accomplish ; complete

ตรวจ dtrùat [to] check ; censor ; inspect

ตำรวจ dtam-rùat police ; policeman

Edited December 12, 2011 by ChristianPFC

[Richard W]

The -am(n)- infix seems to make words more formal or dignified, e.g. ดำเนิน compared with เดิน.