Huge Widening Income Gap

[MilkPlus]

Well, my maternal grandparents went to Thailand with nothing in their pocket and managed to put 10 kids through college. But then that was 60 years ago.

Thats was an amazing generation, my Grandfather came back from WW2 had 5 kids, put them all through college, worked 2 jobs till he was 70 years old.

Never bitched about it either.

Wont see the likes of them any time soon.

[RamdomChances]

I say good luck to the people that get the big buck's for working. I know that if I went back looking for work that I'd be looking to earn as much as possible.

I do think that here we have , two groups of people that are poles apart, the ex-pay working probably in BKk for some big company on a six fig (Bhat/month) income.

The retirie's who have worked for years for their pensions and probably have a comfertable living here due to the cost of living being cheaper than their home country and the "chancers" for want of a better term, people that are way off retirment age but have made a choice to come and live here and try and make a home for themselfs. Ok its a bit generalistic I know.

The thing with having money is that you get used to having it and spending it, so I can easily see that and ex-pat working for some BKK company being shocked that someone would contamplate living here on 30,000 or so bhat/month, you just get used to the "nicer" things and mabey loose touch a bit on what people can actually life off.

The "chancers" well they usually come out here as a "lifestyle" choice (rather than the ex-pat worker to whom I'd imagine that the financial package would be very important), They have probably either come out with a chunk of money looking to start a buissines or came out and gone into a relitively low paid job (for ex-pats) like teaching.

I'm a "chancer" I came out when I was about 35, with a chunk of money, looking to turn the chunk into a buissines that I can generate an income, I had a well paid job, but for me it was a lifestyle dessision although I do like money as much as the next man. I CAN live on next to nothing if I have too(less than 10,000 bhat/month) and while building the buissiness up sometimes I've had too. I'm not saying that I would want to live long term on that and I dont pay rent ect so my outgoing are small.

I'd say that since starting the buissines here I've probably ploughed about 70% of the profits back in expanding, it does leave you short on cash sometimes, but I recon its worth it in the long term. The good thing for me is that cows dont really depreciate(in the short term), so If I am desperate for some cash I'd just sell a couple.

I've got an other 15 years before I can touch my pensions, which I could live off comfertably here and I recon I'll probably keep ploughing the money back in for the next few years, yes sometimes time are hard but I dont think it would be much different than starting a buissines back home, the first few years are tough wherever you are just look at the failoure rates for new companies back home (wherever that is).

You can live comfertably on 30-50,000 bhat here, but one mans comfort could be an other mans hel_l, I'm not sure I'd like to live off 30,000 living and renting an apartment in BKK though, not for the long term anyway.

RC

[jbowman1993]

That about covers it! Good Post!

Peace

[Neeranam]

I'm a "chancer" I came out when I was about 35, with a chunk of money, looking to turn the chunk into a buissines that I can generate an income, I had a well paid job, but for me it was a lifestyle dessision although I do like money as much as the next man. I CAN live on next to nothing if I have too(less than 10,000 bhat/month) and while building the buissiness up sometimes I've had too. I'm not saying that I would want to live long term on that and I dont pay rent ect so my outgoing are small.

Good post, RC.

I'm a chancer too - came here with a heap of money and spent it all in three weeks

Please not all you 'real' expats - you can live on 10,000 baht a month. If you have food, clothes and shelter, what else do you need?

Coming here is, for most people I know, NOTHING to do with money!

[Pudgimelon]

Are you kidding? How many immigrant came to the US with $10,000 in their pocket.

As long as he's relatively young and healthy, he can move back anytime.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I was making the assumption that you'd like to move back there with a reasonable about of security. If you want to move back with nothing in your pockets and live with your parents for a while, then by all means....

Many immigrants who come to America with nothing end up staying with relatives or in some sort of "company housing" (illegal or legal). So if living in a dormitory with a bunch of Mexican migrant farmers is your idea of a "comfortable return", then by all means....

Edited December 7, 2005 by Pudgimelon

[greenwanderer108]

If you want more money - educate yourself in something that you like doing, and that you can make more money from, than doing what you are doing at present. Invest your time and money now and reap the benefits from that investment later, in terms of a higher income and a more expensive lifestyle. If you think this will improve your life, of course. If you dont, then dont worry about it.

You should know, and probably do know, that this is exactly how most Thai people think - they work very hard because they want their kids to have a good education. Partly for selfish reasons, because they realize they need somebody to support them when old, but also partly because they want their kids to have a good life without having economical difficulties.

If you are not prepared to spend your time or money to make that investment, stop complaining about the people who are now making more money than yourself because they did make that choice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I stated once, I enjoy my line of work/lax schedule here in Thailand and at the end of the day, I feel that that a six figure income in Thailand would only corrupt me.. Just looking at the salary gap between and other expats makes me envious...which takes away from the point of the thread.

While I got carried away ranting with myself and others here as a reference, the OP wasn't to compare me and other expats necesarrily...more to point out/address the widening income gap/system here, which I feel is a system that will prove chaotic for the overall society here in Thailand and the rest of the world in general.

I get the point that people with skills obviously should get paid more than those without. However, when the income gap is so wide like 50 x as high a salary, this is where I see problems...it bugs me more that many of you feel it is justified. Well, ok you can justify it all you want and out-debate me on it with whatever reasons, but in the end, 5 generations from now, do you honestly believe this system will benefit society and earth to the best?

People with high incomes have higher buying power, and thus more power/influence in society in general. They are the elite. History has shown us time and again how easily extreme wealth can corrupt any one individual. So while someone who happened to have (or choose to have as pointed out) management/marketing skills/experience can just walk into any country that he/she has no personal connection and become an influential/powerful figure in that society, this is where I see a problem..

Let's use Bild766 as an example. Let's say that he wasn't taking care of the village (his wife's family) with his wealth. Just was some one with specific skills who got stationed in Thailand. Most people with buying power like that usually want to expand their power, not give it back to the people, especially in a foreign country where one is placed on the upper tier of society far away from the masses' reality of life.

Come on, we play games like monopoly and Risk as children...If I got stationed/contracted in some foreign country that I had no initial desire to be in, pulling a western income/pension that was 50 times higher than the average worker's income, that would make me an automatic elite there. Unless I get tractor beamed in by some poor local girl and her village I'm not going to give a &lt;deleted&gt; about how my power benifits the overall society. I'm going to be concerned with the well being of my family line.

So as a foriegn elite under such circumstances (the flawed system I'm trying to point out), what are my interests? I'm obviously earning way too much simply to be concerned with my own personal material happiness. I'm gonna want to expand it...Build condos, casinos, 5 star hotels, corporations, shopping malls, all those enterprises that will milk/accumulate the poors 'pennies' into my bank accounts/assets. I'm not concerned with the equality and wellbeing of the locals necesarily. Why should I be? Their poverty makes my wealth possible and much more convenient.

And this is exactly what I see going on in Thailand. Not only the expats, but obviously the rich Thai/Chinese elites as well--- who do little to nothing for the community with their buying power. All these condos/private realestate, shopping malls, popping up all over Bkk. Why aren't they building more public venues like parks, libraries, mass transit, etc.? Real estate here particularly bothers me..

How many people are living in slum, shack, inadequate housing? These laborers busting their butts off at Klong Toey, factories, etc. working hard to build up, not their own wealth, but that of their bosses...And what do these elite, who thrive off of cheap labor do with their wealth? Build and buy condos, investment, investment, . The poor get poorer and the rich get richer....The haves/have nots....

I believe the 'elite' are just too comfortable in their wealth to realize/care the needs of the bigger society. They've never had to live like a 'local' so they wouldn't have the compassion/empathy to give a rat's tail. And why should they? We're not talking about rags-riches examples of a few locals...A wide majority of these are elites that have virtually been an elite since day one...Social stratification...

Rant rant rant...

[MilkPlus]

You can live comfertably on 30-50,000 bhat here, but one mans comfort could be an other mans hel_l, I'm not sure I'd like to live off 30,000 living and renting an apartment in BKK though, not for the long term anyway.

RC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good post, but Id be willing to wager that the majority of the people who say they are satisfied are lying to themselves and the people around them. In fact many of them post their crap here.

I can count on one hand the number of people who are truly living "the life", the rest are posers and quitters.

I had many hippy friends who would bitch and moan about the Texans in their Range Rovers and big houses, and then when we would be getting ready to go to on a road trip in my Rover they were the first ones out the door yelling "shotgun".

hel_l they would fight over who got to stand outside and pump the gas just so the pretty girls would see them. When we drove down the strip at a beach they would hang out the windows and stand up in the sun roof whistling at the girls as they walked by. They went from Hippy hater to, pretend player in the blink of an eye.

It’s easy to say you don’t need or want something when you don’t have it, or the option to have it if you "really" wanted it. It’s the ones who could have it and THEN choose to "live the life" that are real, the others just don’t want to put in the hard work or are too scared to go for it.

Most people who work hard or have created wealth did it because it goes against their nature to be ###### up.

[MilkPlus]

If you want more money - educate yourself in something that you like doing, and that you can make more money from, than doing what you are doing at present. Invest your time and money now and reap the benefits from that investment later, in terms of a higher income and a more expensive lifestyle. If you think this will improve your life, of course. If you dont, then dont worry about it.

You should know, and probably do know, that this is exactly how most Thai people think - they work very hard because they want their kids to have a good education. Partly for selfish reasons, because they realize they need somebody to support them when old, but also partly because they want their kids to have a good life without having economical difficulties.

If you are not prepared to spend your time or money to make that investment, stop complaining about the people who are now making more money than yourself because they did make that choice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I stated once, I enjoy my line of work/lax schedule here in Thailand and at the end of the day, I feel that that a six figure income in Thailand would only corrupt me.. Just looking at the salary gap between and other expats makes me envious...which takes away from the point of the thread.

While I got carried away ranting with myself and others here as a reference, the OP wasn't to compare me and other expats necesarrily...more to point out/address the widening income gap/system here, which I feel is a system that will prove chaotic for the overall society here in Thailand and the rest of the world in general.

I get the point that people with skills obviously should get paid more than those without. However, when the income gap is so wide like 50 x as high a salary, this is where I see problems...it bugs me more that many of you feel it is justified. Well, ok you can justify it all you want and out-debate me on it with whatever reasons, but in the end, 5 generations from now, do you honestly believe this system will benefit society and earth to the best?

People with high incomes have higher buying power, and thus more power/influence in society in general. They are the elite. History has shown us time and again how easily extreme wealth can corrupt any one individual. So while someone who happened to have (or choose to have as pointed out) management/marketing skills/experience can just walk into any country that he/she has no personal connection and become an influential/powerful figure in that society, this is where I see a problem..

Let's use Bild766 as an example. Let's say that he wasn't taking care of the village (his wife's family) with his wealth. Just was some one with specific skills who got stationed in Thailand. Most people with buying power like that usually want to expand their power, not give it back to the people, especially in a foreign country where one is placed on the upper tier of society far away from the masses' reality of life.

Come on, we play games like monopoly and Risk as children...If I got stationed/contracted in some foreign country that I had no initial desire to be in, pulling a western income/pension that was 50 times higher than the average worker's income, that would make me an automatic elite there. Unless I get tractor beamed in by some poor local girl and her village I'm not going to give a &lt;deleted&gt; about how my power benifits the overall society. I'm going to be concerned with the well being of my family line.

So as a foriegn elite under such circumstances (the flawed system I'm trying to point out), what are my interests? I'm obviously earning way too much simply to be concerned with my own personal material happiness. I'm gonna want to expand it...Build condos, casinos, 5 star hotels, corporations, shopping malls, all those enterprises that will milk/accumulate the poors 'pennies' into my bank accounts/assets. I'm not concerned with the equality and wellbeing of the locals necesarily. Why should I be? Their poverty makes my wealth possible and much more convenient.

And this is exactly what I see going on in Thailand. Not only the expats, but obviously the rich Thai/Chinese elites as well--- who do little to nothing for the community with their buying power. All these condos/private realestate, shopping malls, popping up all over Bkk. Why aren't they building more public venues like parks, libraries, mass transit, etc.? Real estate here particularly bothers me..

How many people are living in slum, shack, inadequate housing? These laborers busting their butts off at Klong Toey, factories, etc. working hard to build up, not their own wealth, but that of their bosses...And what do these elite, who thrive off of cheap labor do with their wealth? Build and buy condos, investment, investment, . The poor get poorer and the rich get richer....The haves/have nots....

I believe the 'elite' are just too comfortable in their wealth to realize/care the needs of the bigger society. They've never had to live like a 'local' so they wouldn't have the compassion/empathy to give a rat's tail. And why should they? We're not talking about rags-riches examples of a few locals...A wide majority of these are elites that have virtually been an elite since day one...Social stratification...

Rant rant rant...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're full of it, said like a typical quitter.

[greenwanderer108]

You're full of it, said like a typical quitter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you please elaborate??? What did I quit?

[Neeranam]

Good post, but Id be willing to wager that the majority of the people who say they are satisfied are lying to themselves and the people around them. In fact many of them post their crap here.

You sound like a bitter old man who has wasted his life trying to make money.

And maybe

[Thaiquila]

Thaiquila, I do respect you dude but it is important to realize one important fact, Life is Long and one needs cash to live it. I asked my friend just the other day if he was going to move here with his 30K USD, he said no. I said, what if you die soon?>, he said "what if I dont?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I totally agree. You need cash. How much is a personal thing though. I am suggesting looking at things in a balanced way and not assuming the worse case or the best case. The graveyards are filled with ultra careful miser millionaires who never spent their money.

Edited December 7, 2005 by Thaiquila

[Heng]

I had  many hippy friends who would bitch and moan about the Texans in their Range Rovers and big houses, and then when we would be getting ready to go to on a road trip in my Rover they were the first ones out the door yelling "shotgun".

Hehe. Agree.

[vjoe]

Good post, but Id be willing to wager that the majority of the people who say they are satisfied are lying to themselves and the people around them. In fact many of them post their crap here.

You sound like a bitter old man who has wasted his life trying to make money.

And maybe

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

haha, you found a use for those stickers.

[greenwanderer108]

You can live comfertably on 30-50,000 bhat here, but one mans comfort could be an other mans hel_l, I'm not sure I'd like to live off 30,000 living and renting an apartment in BKK though, not for the long term anyway.

RC

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good post, but Id be willing to wager that the majority of the people who say they are satisfied are lying to themselves and the people around them. In fact many of them post their crap here.

I can count on one hand the number of people who are truly living "the life", the rest are posers and quitters.

I had many hippy friends who would bitch and moan about the Texans in their Range Rovers and big houses, and then when we would be getting ready to go to on a road trip in my Rover they were the first ones out the door yelling "shotgun".

hel_l they would fight over who got to stand outside and pump the gas just so the pretty girls would see them. When we drove down the strip at a beach they would hang out the windows and stand up in the sun roof whistling at the girls as they walked by. They went from Hippy hater to, pretend player in the blink of an eye.

It’s easy to say you don’t need or want something when you don’t have it, or the option to have it if you "really" wanted it. It’s the ones who could have it and THEN choose to "live the life" that are real, the others just don’t want to put in the hard work or are too scared to go for it.

Most people who work hard or have created wealth did it because it goes against their nature to be ###### up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure I would want a six figure salary instead of 5 or 4 figure. Who wouldn't? But do I need it? Who will it benefit?

My point is, is the system here beneficial to the overall society?

Like some of you suggest, I can easily go back to the USA, become a garbageman for 5 or 10 years, and come back to Thailand or Cambodia with a huge savings, invest my money in a few condos, watch the income poor in, and become a millionaire like that, expanding my wealth.

Is this system fair and beneficial?

For me, or anyone who chooses to take advantage of such a system, maybe...but not for the society on a whole, particularly for the masses that don't have the opportunity/freedom to benefit from such a system...

For me it comes down to what values I want to raise my children with...Sure the monopoly/income disparity values would benefit them much more material wise.

Buddhism teaches that one should only have enough nessecary for survival to obtain 'enlightenment'. Not too little, not too much...though one could look at the practices of Sidartha himself of having too little to be able to realise the value of 'enough' or por dee พอดี i.e. via his initial suffering.

Then again, Sidartha was a rich prince who gave it all up...so it might not necesarry be possible for someone born into poverty..though despite the ignorance in this forum that suggests my income is poverty level, I can assure you my offpring will not be deprived of a 'rich life' and that doesn't infer capital richness necesarrily.

[meadish_sweetball]

I believe the 'elite' are just too comfortable in their wealth to realize/care the needs of the bigger society. They've never had to live like a 'local' so they wouldn't have the compassion/empathy to give a rat's tail. And why should they? We're not talking about rags-riches examples of a few locals...A wide majority of these are elites that have virtually been an elite since day one...Social stratification...

Rant rant rant...

I think envy clouds your judgement, young padawan learner.

How deep down in the slum do you have to dig before you are qualified to make any statements? Compassion is not to do with the amount of money you make. It is a different animal, to do with your heart, and found in rich as well as poor people.

That being said, you do have a point that society as a whole does not benefit in the long run from too large income disparities... for example in terms of crime level etc.

But I also think that Thailand will be very different in 50 years - for the better. The poverty is not as desperate as it once was, and even though the income gap may be widening, in Asia as a whole the lowest income earners are now in a better position than the lowest income earners two decades ago - and literacy has increased - *despite* an increasing population.

[MilkPlus]

Good post, but Id be willing to wager that the majority of the people who say they are satisfied are lying to themselves and the people around them. In fact many of them post their crap here.

You sound like a bitter old man who has wasted his life trying to make money.

And maybe

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOl, Im not old.

And Im a happy ######er too, I can walk out my back door anytime I want and catch largemouth bass, walk into my garage and choose from several autos and 3 different bikes, have a home large enough to have 5 couples and their kids come to stay anytime they wish (and they often do), if I want to take a trip I take it. I donate more to charity than you earn in a year, and Ive put 3 of my relatives children through college because they were so bright and got such good grades. ie...they deserved it. All of them succeeded in getting their degrees.

Look at this disgusting display of decadent evil capitialistic, eating the flesh of the poor , wickedness!

I earned it pal, you are exactly the type of person I was describing. I am certain that in a few years you will get a taste of the reality stick across your behind and spend the rest of your life full of regret.

Have a nice day!

[solo siam]

The OP keeps mentioning Buddhism but clearly keeps pertaining to his envy of those who are better off. I have no problem with someone living on whatever they can, but if they are envious of others wages or living standards then they can't rightly claim they dont want/need more money.

[sleepyjohn]

You lot should come and live in Chiangmai!

It obviously must be a lot cheaper here than BKK.

I have friends who live on 20,000 a month here. They live fairly simply and with motorcys not cars, but don't go without any of the basics. After all many Thais manage on a lot less.

One friend was a criminal lawyer in California....he hated it for enough years then came here, teaches at CMU, I'm guessing for not much, if any, more. But he seems very contented and enjoys life.

I will get no pension of any sort, so am trying to morph into a professional investor. I spend at the moment about 40-50kBaht a month, and want for nothing here in CM, drive a nice little $WD. So I would like to clear more than that after allowing for inflation. Also would be much happier if my capital rose rather tahn fell.....remember Mr McCawber?

I must say I'm very surprised at some of the big numbers I've heard here, and I hope the "small guys" remember it's how you act rather than what you earn that makes you "BIG".

[MilkPlus]

One friend was a criminal lawyer in California....he hated it for enough years then came here, teaches at CMU, I'm guessing for not much, if any, more. But he seems very contented and enjoys life.

Well he probably is, till you blew his cover. I expect you will see South Americans walking through your town in a few days to pay him a visit.

Say your goodbyes.

[MilkPlus]

The OP keeps mentioning Buddhism but clearly keeps pertaining to his envy of those who are better off.  I have no problem with someone living on whatever they can, but if they are envious of others wages or living standards then they can't rightly claim they dont want/need more money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are very , very few people who truly live the life as a matter of choice, they are very special people and few and far between. As I said earlier, Im 40 and have met many people from all walks of life and can count those people on one hand.

Ive met 100's of posers, cop outs.

I know for a fact the true individuals, the ones the OP wishes he were would never be posting about it on a forum.

Edited December 7, 2005 by MilkPlus

[zzap]

It’s easy to say you don’t need or want something when you don’t have it, or the option to have it if you "really" wanted it.  It’s the ones who could have it and THEN choose to "live the life" that are real, the others just don’t want to put in the hard work or are too scared to go for it.

Most people who work hard or have created wealth did it because it goes against their nature to be ###### up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course I'd like to have more money and 'things' to play with.

The question is, at what price? As a Joe-average, I have no easy way to create wealth, and I am not willing to put a huge amount of time and effort into it. If you are willing to make the effort, fine by me, but I prefer to have a lax lifestyle, is this so hard to accept?

[MilkPlus]

It’s easy to say you don’t need or want something when you don’t have it, or the option to have it if you "really" wanted it.  It’s the ones who could have it and THEN choose to "live the life" that are real, the others just don’t want to put in the hard work or are too scared to go for it.

Most people who work hard or have created wealth did it because it goes against their nature to be ###### up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course I'd like to have more money and 'things' to play with.

The question is, at what price? As a Joe-average, I have no easy way to create wealth, and I am not willing to put a huge amount of time and effort into it. If you are willing to make the effort, fine by me, but I prefer to have a lax lifestyle, is this so hard to accept?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What does "Joe Average" mean? And what is easier about your current lifestyle?

[greenwanderer108]

The OP keeps mentioning Buddhism but clearly keeps pertaining to his envy of those who are better off.  I have no problem with someone living on whatever they can, but if they are envious of others wages or living standards then they can't rightly claim they dont want/need more money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly...but as I said, this thread wasn't intended to be a debate about my personal flaws. While I admit envy is there, the same envy you might have for Bill Gates, though you might not admit it...it's beside the point of the thread...

Desire is everywhere, and no one is without it. Sure, I wouldn't mind having an extra few thousand a baht to blow on a massage every day...or buy this gadget or that...invest in this condo or that shopping mall...but even if I did,

whether I earned it or not, would it make it justifiable...would it make it right? Is it fair? Is it a value you want to instill in your children?

Please don't get me wrong...I'm not trying to say that I wish I was earning as much as you...I already said, I'm more than content with my earnings, more importantly with my social mobility, opportunities---- here or anywhere in the world.

But don't forget the fundamental reason why most of us are making this kind of money and have these types of opportunities to come in and virtually own shares of Thailand in minimal time...

Not because you have skills that no one else has, not because you worked hard from the bottom and earned your status in a fair/equal system, and certainly not because you are a harder worker/smarter invester than anyone else making less than you...

While all these may have minamal relevance, the most important fact is--->you're white and/or come from a wealthy country who has coerced the rest of the world to keep up in the game of 'moderinization' 'globalization', etc..

Why do you come to Thailand--->whether to live or visit? Why not work in the States, GB, Australia, Switzerland, Norway? Why don't you spend your holiday season in Jamaca, the Bahammas, Hawaii?

I'll tell you my guess...

Cause, you and your salaries in those places are just another statistic...you are nobody there? Just an average middle class citizen? In Thailand, all of a sudden your average western salary puts you on top, gives you real buying power, in a country with low cost of labor, where money can buy you anything. Now, you're an elite.

Heck, even with my measily 30k+ a month, I make more than my 50 year old uncle who's been a proffesor at Rachapat for as long as I've been alive...so don't think I'm excluding myself from the big picture in Thailand.

The OP keeps mentioning Buddhism but clearly keeps pertaining to his envy of those who are better off.  I have no problem with someone living on whatever they can, but if they are envious of others wages or living standards then they can't rightly claim they dont want/need more money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are very , very few people who truly live the life as a matter of choice, they are very special people and few and far between. As I said earlier, Im 40 and have met many people from all walks of life and can count those people on one hand.

Ive met 100's of posers, cop outs.

I know for a fact the true individuals, the ones the OP wishes he were would never be posting about it on a forum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't wish I was anyone else on this forum . I'm happy being me...I'm young, dumb, and full of c#m, which is more to say for many of you over the hill...though I've noticed the sex-lives of farang in los seems pretty extended, atleast compared to my recollections of guys in their 60's/70's in the nursery homes back in the states...must be the viagra ...i digress

Like someone said, I can easily make more than I'm making now by simply going back home and get a 'real job' but I don't and won't because I'm not willing to give my life away in pursuance of material wealth. I've seen/known enough people who met death before they could ever plan rich and poor...some very close ones...

And I garuntee at their dying moments, none of them were wishing they had earned more money, gained more assets, exploited more masses...cause in that end, none of this mattered. What really mattered is did their impact on earth/society/people have positive affect overall or not???

[greenwanderer108]

Good post, but Id be willing to wager that the majority of the people who say they are satisfied are lying to themselves and the people around them. In fact many of them post their crap here.

You sound like a bitter old man who has wasted his life trying to make money.

And maybe

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOl, Im not old.

And Im a happy ######er too, I can walk out my back door anytime I want and catch largemouth bass, walk into my garage and choose from several autos and 3 different bikes, have a home large enough to have 5 couples and their kids come to stay anytime they wish (and they often do), if I want to take a trip I take it. I donate more to charity than you earn in a year, and Ive put 3 of my relatives children through college because they were so bright and got such good grades. ie...they deserved it. All of them succeeded in getting their degrees.

I earned it pal, you are exactly the type of person I was describing. I am certain that in a few years you will get a taste of the reality stick across your behind and spend the rest of your life full of regret.

Have a nice day!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's fine and dandy..So your house and all your toys survived Katrina? It's a good thing that this hurricane was a rare natural occurence that might never happen again...Good things Tsunamis are only an asian thing ?wouldn't want to lose those assets and toys to mother-nature, now would we?

Don't be so arogant/ignorant! If your that rich, atleast you could do is be humble about it...

Anyway, good for those kids who got a free education. Let me guess, they're going to be businessmen/women or investors so they can be as rich as you...

What kind of charities did you donate too? Nevermind, it's irrelevant. Just keep it flowing...And make sure you get credit and recognition cause that's the whole point of giving...

[solo siam]

I earn significantly less here in Thailand than I could in the UK, I've just passed 30 years old and enjoy the lifestyle here, Its nothing about status or comparative wealth.

I dont want or need to earn money so that I look good to other people, I want to give my wife and daughter a nice relaxed lifestyle, where they dont need to worry too much about money or being able to afford to go to college etc.. I also like to be able to take international trips to see our relatives/the world.

In regards to Thai salary, the professor doesn't sound like hes on the top of the scale - I know uneducated Thai guys here on 17-20k at 25 years old, thats for semi-skilled labour work, not management or sales.

[greenwanderer108]

It might be surprising, but those who รับราชการ (get government/official jobs) salaries are quite low. I can't remember the specifics, but can assure you that these 'official' jobs with a bachelors degree start at no more than a third of what I make...for masters degree, half of what I make, tops...

The average promotion in Thailnad is somewhere around 5-10% of salary base increase per year...

It's no wonder, there's so much coruption.

[Neeranam]

True ambition is not what I thought it was when I was earning big bucks in the UK. True ambition is the deep desire to live usefully and walk humbly under the grace of God/Buddha/whatever tickles your fancy.

My only concern once was to have my fellow man think highly of me. My ambition in everything I did was to have the power to be at the top. My inner self kept telling me something else but I couldn't accept it. I didn't even allow myself to realize that I wore a mask continually. Finally the mask came off - I learned how to change resentments into acceptance, fear into hope, and anger into love. I have learne also, through loving without undue expectations through sharing my concerns and caring for my fellow man, that each day can be joyous and fruitful.

And I garuntee at their dying moments, none of them were wishing they had earned more money, gained more assets, exploited more masses...cause in that end, none of this mattered. What really mattered is did their impact on earth/society/people have positive affect overall or not???

Very true. I wonder how many of these guys, hiding behind their material masks could survive a meditation retreat, for example. Most of the ones I know can't even sit at peace for 5 minutes.

[Heng]

A low salary is no excuse for not becoming one of the haves. All it takes is starting early and being disciplined (education not necessarily required). Yeah, the salaries are lower here, but then again "easy street" or the point where your funds pretty much start working for themselves is a LOT lower as well. In the US, becoming a millionaire means a lot less than it used to, but in the LOS, the comfort point is more like $300-350,000. Perhaps a little more than that nowadays, but certainly true less than a decade ago in the 10% plain jane bank interest days. Of course you can't really compare the two exactly as the lifestyles are going to be different and people can still prefer one over the other.

[MilkPlus]

The OP keeps mentioning Buddhism but clearly keeps pertaining to his envy of those who are better off.  I have no problem with someone living on whatever they can, but if they are envious of others wages or living standards then they can't rightly claim they dont want/need more money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly...but as I said, this thread wasn't intended to be a debate about my personal flaws. While I admit envy is there, the same envy you might have for Bill Gates, though you might not admit it...it's beside the point of the thread...

Desire is everywhere, and no one is without it. Sure, I wouldn't mind having an extra few thousand a baht to blow on a massage every day...or buy this gadget or that...invest in this condo or that shopping mall...but even if I did,

whether I earned it or not, would it make it justifiable...would it make it right? Is it fair? Is it a value you want to instill in your children?

Please don't get me wrong...I'm not trying to say that I wish I was earning as much as you...I already said, I'm more than content with my earnings, more importantly with my social mobility, opportunities---- here or anywhere in the world.

But don't forget the fundamental reason why most of us are making this kind of money and have these types of opportunities to come in and virtually own shares of Thailand in minimal time...

Not because you have skills that no one else has, not because you worked hard from the bottom and earned your status in a fair/equal system, and certainly not because you are a harder worker/smarter invester than anyone else making less than you...

While all these may have minamal relevance, the most important fact is--->you're white and/or come from a wealthy country who has coerced the rest of the world to keep up in the game of 'moderinization' 'globalization', etc..

Why do you come to Thailand--->whether to live or visit? Why not work in the States, GB, Australia, Switzerland, Norway? Why don't you spend your holiday season in Jamaca, the Bahammas, Hawaii?

I'll tell you my guess...

Cause, you and your salaries in those places are just another statistic...you are nobody there? Just an average middle class citizen? In Thailand, all of a sudden your average western salary puts you on top, gives you real buying power, in a country with low cost of labor, where money can buy you anything. Now, you're an elite.

Heck, even with my measily 30k+ a month, I make more than my 50 year old uncle who's been a proffesor at Rachapat for as long as I've been alive...so don't think I'm excluding myself from the big picture in Thailand.

The OP keeps mentioning Buddhism but clearly keeps pertaining to his envy of those who are better off.  I have no problem with someone living on whatever they can, but if they are envious of others wages or living standards then they can't rightly claim they dont want/need more money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There are very , very few people who truly live the life as a matter of choice, they are very special people and few and far between. As I said earlier, Im 40 and have met many people from all walks of life and can count those people on one hand.

Ive met 100's of posers, cop outs.

I know for a fact the true individuals, the ones the OP wishes he were would never be posting about it on a forum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't wish I was anyone else on this forum . I'm happy being me...I'm young, dumb, and full of c#m, which is more to say for many of you over the hill...though I've noticed the sex-lives of farang in los seems pretty extended, atleast compared to my recollections of guys in their 60's/70's in the nursery homes back in the states...must be the viagra ...i digress

Like someone said, I can easily make more than I'm making now by simply going back home and get a 'real job' but I don't and won't because I'm not willing to give my life away in pursuance of material wealth. I've seen/known enough people who met death before they could ever plan rich and poor...some very close ones...

And I garuntee at their dying moments, none of them were wishing they had earned more money, gained more assets, exploited more masses...cause in that end, none of this mattered. What really mattered is did their impact on earth/society/people have positive affect overall or not???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL, the new Thai license plate

THAILAND.....A PLACE TO BE SOMEBODY!

[MilkPlus]

Good post, but Id be willing to wager that the majority of the people who say they are satisfied are lying to themselves and the people around them. In fact many of them post their crap here.

You sound like a bitter old man who has wasted his life trying to make money.

And maybe

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOl, Im not old.

And Im a happy ######er too, I can walk out my back door anytime I want and catch largemouth bass, walk into my garage and choose from several autos and 3 different bikes, have a home large enough to have 5 couples and their kids come to stay anytime they wish (and they often do), if I want to take a trip I take it. I donate more to charity than you earn in a year, and Ive put 3 of my relatives children through college because they were so bright and got such good grades. ie...they deserved it. All of them succeeded in getting their degrees.

I earned it pal, you are exactly the type of person I was describing. I am certain that in a few years you will get a taste of the reality stick across your behind and spend the rest of your life full of regret.

Have a nice day!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's fine and dandy..So your house and all your toys survived Katrina? It's a good thing that this hurricane was a rare natural occurence that might never happen again...Good things Tsunamis are only an asian thing ?wouldn't want to lose those assets and toys to mother-nature, now would we?

Don't be so arogant/ignorant! If your that rich, atleast you could do is be humble about it...

Anyway, good for those kids who got a free education. Let me guess, they're going to be businessmen/women or investors so they can be as rich as you...

What kind of charities did you donate too? Nevermind, it's irrelevant. Just keep it flowing...And make sure you get credit and recognition cause that's the whole point of giving...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ive got insurance!

Ignorance, wanna head on over to MENSA and do some dueling?

Ignorance is sitting in a cave and meditating yourself into a coma.

Dont get me wrong, Im all for meditation, I do it every day for about 20 mins, just like Armand Hammer did.

People like you do it to escape, I do it to sharpen and recharge.