Uk Visit Visa Refused.

[Boycie]

theoldgit no worries about swisstouristpattaya, i stopped reading his post after the first line

Tonto21 "Not being rude, but are you telling the whole truth" you must be trying to wind me up

I'm more than sure that we meet all the requirements, thank you very much.

"Good luck with your next attempt" Maybe there won't be another attempt.....

VisasPlus are being very kind and helping to lodge a complaint, on our behalf, free of charge even thou we didn't use their services to submit the application. Were hoping to get the refusal decision overturned, even thou you can't appeal.

Congratulations to you and your GF on getting your UK VIsa

Where's the post on your experience, to help other members and guests?

[Tonto21]

theoldgit no worries about swisstouristpattaya, i stopped reading his post after the first line

Tonto21 "Not being rude, but are you telling the whole truth" you must be trying to wind me up

I'm more than sure that we meet all the requirements, thank you very much.

"Good luck with your next attempt" Maybe there won't be another attempt.....

VisasPlus are being very kind and helping to lodge a complaint, on our behalf, free of charge even thou we didn't use their services to submit the application. Were hoping to get the refusal decision overturned, even thou you can't appeal.

Congratulations to you and your GF on getting your UK VIsa

Where's the post on your experience, to help other members and guests?

Ok ‘Boycie’ you can stop swinging your handbag now…..And Thanks, we fly to the UK this Tue!

As for my experience…Living in Chiangmai, if we did the application ourselves, flight, accommodation and all the rest when going to BKK, and not being successful, that’s a lot of time and money. There is also the chance of getting something wrong and being refused.

So we went with a visa agent, we got great advice, and if no visa….no fee. Job done.

Your GF visa was turned down because she/you failed to satisfy that you had been together for the two years, so why go on about all the other docs you provided…having provided all the doc’s is great, but they won’t cover this particular tick box, its Subjective, we were told to provide 60+ photos minimum. It’s a pain but you have to create this image in the mind of the immigration officer that you and your GF are a couple, you get one chance to do this….Though your photos!!!!!

I wasn’t trying to piss you off, but the point I was trying to make was this; you were convinced when you submitted this application that there would be no worries, you believed you did all that was required, but you didn’t, did you? And now you are pissed. What exactly do you want to hear? Your right….They are wrong……Do you feel better now?

When you’ve calmed down, look at it again, if you still think your so right, resubmit the visa just like this one…..See what happens.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Tonto21

[Boycie]

Tonto21 "Your GF visa was turned down because she/you failed to satisfy that you had been together for the two years, so why go on about all the other docs you provided"

Have a read of guide to supporting documents from the UK Border Agency for a general visitor/tourist

visitors documents needed.pdf

and please tell me where it states about providing evidence of a relationship??

Quote "I wasn’t trying to piss you off, but the point I was trying to make was this; you were convinced when you submitted this application that there would be no worries, you believed you did all that was required, but you didn’t, did you? And now you are pissed. What exactly do you want to hear? Your right….They are wrong……Do you feel better now?"

I was not convinced that there would be no worries at all. I did believe that we had all the information that we wanted to submit. The application officer handed photos and documents back saying they were not needed. I thought at the time, they know what there doing, it's their job. I have since found out that it's not their job to decide what is and isn't needed. So i'm now thinking, that if all our information had been attached to the application, i wouldn't be writing to you now.

So that's why I'm feeling a bit pissed!!

[Tonto21]

Tonto21 "Your GF visa was turned down because she/you failed to satisfy that you had been together for the two years, so why go on about all the other docs you provided"

Have a read of guide to supporting documents from the UK Border Agency for a general visitor/tourist

visitors documents needed.pdf

and please tell me where it states about providing evidence of a relationship??

Quote "I wasn’t trying to piss you off, but the point I was trying to make was this; you were convinced when you submitted this application that there would be no worries, you believed you did all that was required, but you didn’t, did you? And now you are pissed. What exactly do you want to hear? Your right….They are wrong……Do you feel better now?"

I was not convinced that there would be no worries at all. I did believe that we had all the information that we wanted to submit. The application officer handed photos and documents back saying they were not needed. I thought at the time, they know what there doing, it's their job. I have since found out that it's not their job to decide what is and isn't needed. So i'm now thinking, that if all our information had been attached to the application, i wouldn't be writing to you now.

So that's why I'm feeling a bit pissed!!

I see…………………So would I be then.

I understand what you mean now. But not a lot you can do now is there.

I know the horse has bolted. But if you go at it again…Go through an agents.

[Thongkorn]

When I submitted my Holiday Visa for my now wife and then for a Settlement visa, i put loads of photos in < better to much than not enough.

PS, I did both Visas without an Agent, its not rocket science. just read up from the UK Boarder Agency web site.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Thongkorn

[Boycie]

When I submitted my Holiday Visa for my now wife and then for a Settlement visa, i put loads of photos in < better to much than not enough.

PS, I did both Visas without an Agent, its not rocket science. just read up from the UK Boarder Agency web site.

We did want to submit PHOTOS but they...........................whats the point i give up

In my opening most i wrote "So my fiancee handed over everything when she was called and the officer went through all her paperwork. She handed back 26 photos (evidence of our relationship over the years), pay slips, original Chanote paper and copy saying there were not needed. But we wanted to submit everything!!"

I know it's not bloody rocket science, that's why we applied without an agent. Can you please post from the UK Border Agency website where it states about supplying evidence that your in a relationship for a general visitor visa??

[rawhod]

You might just want to look at the check list for "Social and Business Visit" No 10...

VisitSocial.pdf

Edited February 3, 2012 by rawhod

[Boycie]

You might just want to look at the check list for "Social and Business Visit" No 10...

VisitSocial.pdf

Is this from the official UK Border Agency guide to supporting documents?

[beano2274]

I never supplied photos for my wife's family visa, and will not submit any for my mother in laws visitors visa, but am in a different situation than Boycie.

Hope the guys can help you Boycie

Remember there are plonkers everywhere like Rodney.

[rawhod]

You might just want to look at the check list for "Social and Business Visit" No 10...

VisitSocial.pdf

Is this from the official UK Border Agency guide to supporting documents?

It is an official UK Border Agency check list for Social & Business Visit. They have similar check lists for "Settlement - Spouse/Civil Partner" and "Marriage/Register Civil Partnership Visit". I am not sure where they are to be found now but they were listed under "Check Lists" with the guidance in 2010 and early 2011.

[BobHG46]

I was refused on my girlfriend's first application. The reasons given were that they could not link us financially and that her registered address was not the same as my registered address. On refusal, they put a refusal stamp in the back of her passport. When you re-apply, it's most important that you put this refusal as part of your application, otherwise they'll refuse you again. I kept the refusal document and made a copy which I submitted on my re-application. I shall have to do this for every succeeding application.

Between the application and the time we were supposed to travel, we married. My wife transferred her ID card address and her tabian baan to my address. We also put each other on our bank accounts, so that they became joint bank accounts. If you have visa money in a Thai bank account, this must be in your name only, by the way.

I asked my family to provide me with copies of their passports, so that I could show that we were going on a family visit visa. We provided copies of Thai bank accounts in our joint names to show that we could support ourselves. I also provided a letter from my wife's employer, saying that she had worked there for several years and had signed a new contract for the forthcoming year. Had the embassy made one telephone call to her place of work, a private international school, on the first occasion she applied, they would have been able to allay all their fears of her overstaying and also confirm the integrity of her application.

With these changes made, the next application was successful.

I forgot to mention that there is definitely a hidden agenda with regard to visa applications to the UK, unpublicised requirements that one can be turned down for that are not mentioned on the application forms. It would be most helpful to everyone if these un-publicised requirements were put in the public view.

I hope that you'll be successful on your next application.

Edited February 5, 2012 by BobHG46

[beano2274]

I was refused on my girlfriend's first application. The reasons given were that they could not link us financially and that her registered address was not the same as my registered address. On refusal, they put a refusal stamp in the back of her passport. When you re-apply, it's most important that you put this refusal as part of your application, otherwise they'll refuse you again. I kept the refusal document and made a copy which I submitted on my re-application. I shall have to do this for every succeeding application.

Between the application and the time we were supposed to travel, we married. My wife transferred her ID card address and her tabian baan to my address. We also put each other on our bank accounts, so that they became joint bank accounts. If you have visa money in a Thai bank account, this must be in your name only, by the way.

I asked my family to provide me with copies of their passports, so that I could show that we were going on a family visit visa. We provided copies of Thai bank accounts in our joint names to show that we could support ourselves. I also provided a letter from my wife's employer, saying that she had worked there for several years and had signed a new contract for the forthcoming year. Had the embassy made one telephone call to her place of work, a private international school, on the first occasion she applied, they would have been able to allay all their fears of her overstaying and also confirm the integrity of her application.

With these changes made, the next application was successful.

I forgot to mention that there is definitely a hidden agenda with regard to visa applications to the UK, unpublicised requirements that one can be turned down for that are not mentioned on the application forms. It would be most helpful to everyone if these un-publicised requirements were put in the public view.

I hope that you'll be successful on your next application.

My wife is not registered at the same place I am, was never a problem in getting a Visa, but she is applying again on Tuesday as we fancy another trip home

[KunMatt]

That sucks OP. Me and my gf had only been together for 6 months when we first applied and she had far less commitments in Thailand compared to your partner but we got a 6 month tourist Visa for her straight away first time so I cannot understand why you got refused as it sounds like you have a justifiable relationship and provided enough evidence unless the VFS has ballsed it up for you by not allowing you to submit all the evidence you should have.

Also we used a Thai operated visa service company in Bangkok (I refused to pay a farang run company in Pattaya £500 for helping us submit a 6 month visa application) and they made sure everything was in order. Since then we have done the application by ourselves successfully but for the first time it probably is worth getting professional help.

[Gers1873]

#1 go to the VFS website section feedback and complaints ---- list your complaint in detail.

#2 CRITICAL -- write a strongly wordedletter to the Consular Section of the Embassy again detailing your complaints.

Embassies worldwide do monitor locaf VFS performance

Dont forget YOUR contact number.

Above two steps usually sees a few cages rattled and you should end up with a new appointment

Interesting advice here, certainly if you feel that VFS has acted incorrectly you should make a complaint, however I'm not sure that it's "CRITICAL" that you complain to the Consular Section at the embassy. Visa applications are handled by the UKBA, not the Consular Section, their only connection is that they share the same building. By all means write to the ECM, but, if recent reports from those in the know are anything to go by, then I doubt very much if they will send anything more that a generic response, they certainly will not phone OP.

NanLaew makes a valid point about about a reason to return being a very important area to address in the application, I would have thought that if it had not been addressed it would have been mentioned in the refusal notice, I should have said that I would have hoped that it would have been mentioned in the refusal notice.

This thread does highlight the importance of researching the requirements and providing sufficient, meaningful but not overwhelming, evidence to support the application. Applicants should be encouraged to be robust in their dealings with VFS employees.

My original comments were based on previous experience in which my Thai wife received discorteous, disrespectful comments from local VFS staff. Tried complaining to VFS - nothing.

I then involved the local consular staff (this was NOT in Thailand). Within two days I had the aplogetic VFS manager on the phone trying to resolve the original problem.

This process may not work for the OP - it was merely a suggestion based on my own experiences.

IMHO beats wasting money on visa companies.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Gers1873

[rizenkroft]

Use a professional visa company. There are some great ones in pattaya you will get with no hassles.

[Baerboxer]

Best wishes to the OP and fiance in their endeavor.

I came across this thread soon after reading a TV rant about how inconvenient it is to stay in Thailand beyond 30 days (on no visa at all). Then there was the other rant (one of dozens I've read) about how poorly farang are treated in Thailand...the irony being that they are in Thailand to be (allegedly) treated poorly.

This thread kind of puts it all into perspective.

Not really. They are chalk and cheese really. Take the UK (as per the example) - yes it can be difficult to get a visa, but once gained, there is nothing further to do but enjoy your stay and leave before it expires. A British national goes to the Thai embassy and gets a tourist visa - goes to Thailand and comes home - no issues as long a s/he leaves before the visa expires. Both are holiday makers - both have basically the same experience ONCE the visa is gleaned. Why is it harder to get a holiday visa when visiting a first world country from a third world one, erm, let you work that one out - but its the same for any non-commonwealth third world country (worse for may I would suggest too) - commonwealth countries have a different experience (but many also get refused too).

Now, the people you refer to as ranting are not likely to be holiday makers (regardless of the visa they have - or don't have). If you were to compare a Thai married to a Brit in the UK to the same couple here in the kingdom, it is very easy to see who has a better time of it - especially when they are under 50. In the UK (again once the Visa has been got) it's fairly easy sailing, and little hassle other than maybe some delays waiting for paperwork and stamps to come back at each step - but each step IS a step - in the kingdom, it means yearly extensions, continual proof of funds, practically no chance of citizenship or residency, 90 day reports - and if funds are low 90 day border runs and yearly trips for visa renewals.

My Thai wife got her visa 15 years ago - first try and no problem (and that was in the days of primary purpose when it was easy to refuse without grounds based on some subjective guess from some bod at the Brit Embassy) - we were both in our 20's had been courting for 2 years, sent copies of letters, bank statements, mortgage/house plans (show accomodation big enough), private medical coverage (no recourse needed to NHS) and photos and she had an interview - she had good private schools behind her, a military officer as a father and a job teaching 7 year olds which she quit to come over - we had been married one month at the time and I was already back in the UK. When she got there, she had a spouse visa (not ILTR) with that she got a NI number and card, free courses at the local college for English (she already spoke some as she taught it to the kids at school - but at a primary level). Eight months later she got her ILTR and after 4 years her citizenship (she could have got that after 3 years, but we were still working on the old 5 years until someone mentioned it to us, so I checked).

Now, for several years, we have lived here. How am I treated officially? Need a work permit for any job (paid or not - and by the legal definition a WP to breathe!), need to renew my Non-Im 'O' each year (extensions), provide ongoing proof of solvency and even surplus cash compared to the amount I could live on here, notification of address every 90 days (or border run if leaving the country), reentry permits if leaving the country (or lose the visa extension), list of jobs I am not allowed to do, practically no hope of getting citizenship or residency (just how many citizens and residence permits given out to non-Thai descendants since 2006?) - and thus no end in site, completely different rules/charges/fees/prices/legal penalties for me than my wife and kids, far more limits on what I can do or own (in the UK my wife could own a shotgun - we lived in the country - here I can not legally - not that I want one, but for comparison), minimum salary, look at any of the English-language national papers here (job sections) and look how many of the job adverts say Thai nationals only (not Thai speakers, but nationals) - in the UK if you are legal to work then there are very few non-government jobs that a WP holder could not apply for let alone a foreigner with a NI card - from both Thai and western companies, in the UK any foreigner can own a house and the land it sits on (its not like they can pack it up and take it home!) here I can't and my wife has to jump through more hoops than one not married to a foreigner does (and higher back handers to get land reg people to do their job!) and the list goes on....like I said chalk and cheese.

People complaining are not holiday makers, they are people that are, for the main, mostly people with a need to be here (often due to loved ones), but forced to jump through pointless and expensive hoops that does what? Protect the state form me claiming unemployment benefit, free healthcare, social housing!!!! I think not! Mostly it puts a lot of needless stress and expense on Thai families, stagnates housing and land prices, locks out a lot of foreign investment, helps enforce monopolies, keeps a lot of potential free education (of all types) and business ventures away, gives visa money to neighbouring countries, and so on...All in all it really benefits the elite Thais who own those monopolies and tracts of land that they can buy up and cheat poor people out of that sit at the top of the multitude of civil servant backhander pyramids, controlling the rule of law, government and media - keeping us foreign devils in our rightful scapegoat, baby eating, child raping, sex mad, drunken position as the kingdoms official whipping boy. It's not that the ranters hate the Thais, or hate the country, or even want to leave, they just want to be left in peace. allowed to live peacefully with their families without all the above stacked against them and the Damoclean Sword of suddenly having to pack up and leave at the whim of some immigration bod hanging over their heads - and perhaps, even a chance to safely even give back a little to our new home: free education from retired teachers/engineers/medics/linguists/IT people/etc; with safe investment, comes investment taxes and foreign income; with the ability to purchase homes, those half build and practically empty moo bahns littering up the place would start to thrive (don't believe that - look at the urbanizations in Spain - overflowing and continually being expanded and new ones build - mostly English and Germans living in them alongside Spanish - and just in Barcelona or Madrid but little alcoves that became busy little towns like Alicante, Mecia, Torrevieja, Ibiza, Mallorca, Costa Blanca, etc) with the ability to compete for jobs and start businesses easily comes taxes; and so on.

///Edit: Typos

Sound comments sir!

[hotwinter]

When I submitted my Holiday Visa for my now wife and then for a Settlement visa, i put loads of photos in < better to much than not enough.

PS, I did both Visas without an Agent, its not rocket science. just read up from the UK Boarder Agency web site.

We did want to submit PHOTOS but they...........................whats the point i give up

In my opening most i wrote "So my fiancee handed over everything when she was called and the officer went through all her paperwork. She handed back 26 photos (evidence of our relationship over the years), pay slips, original Chanote paper and copy saying there were not needed. But we wanted to submit everything!!"

I know it's not bloody rocket science, that's why we applied without an agent. Can you please post from the UK Border Agency website where it states about supplying evidence that your in a relationship for a general visitor visa??

VFS took out documents in my GF's visit visa. I think only because of the circumstances the embassy called me asking why i never put a copy of my passport in as proof that i had been staying in thailand.

I told them i did and that the VFS had taken it out claiming it was not needed, they couldnt understand why the VFS had done it but they let me take it in the next morning. This visa was to get home for a funeral so im guessing they wouldnt normally call people up asking for more documents. The VFS are obviously mucking up peoples visa's by taking things out they shouldnt!

im applying for a settlement for my GF next and im putting a list of the documents on the cover letter and stating that the VFS took documents out before and if all the documents in the list arent there then the VFS have taken them out and not me!

[Boycie]

Update.

VisasPlus emailed a compliant letter to the Entry Clearance Manager at the UK Embassy on the 3rd February on behalf of my fiancee and I. We can't thank them enough for taking their time and effort in trying to help us. VisasPlus tried their best to get the refusal overturned but the UK Embassy came back with a NO!!

I'm attaching both emails for all to see and learn. I hope other members and their friends don't have the same inconvenience and expense of reapplying as we do.

VisasPlus Compliant to Embassy.docx

The Entry Clearance Manager say they replied on the 1st March but it wasn't received until a few reminder emails later on the 6th March.

Embassy Reply.docx

Going again on Tuesday to the application centre to reapply.

Boycie.

[VisasPlus]

I'm sorry that we were unable to get the refusal decision overturned for Boycie. I thought that the letter we sent to the Embassy showed that the ECO had not made a balanced judgment on the application. In addition, we supplied many of the photos that had not been accepted by VFS, showing Boycie and his girlfriend in Thailand, Singapore and Sri Lanka. Despite this, the ECM still supported the ECO's view that no relationship had been satisfactorily established, and the application therefore had to fail ! How can that be a decision made on the balance of probabilities.

The ECM's comments on VFS's action amounts pretty much to a whitewash. I think, in view of the numerous complaints about VFS on this forum and others, that there is substance to the complaints. The ECM, and the British Embassy, don't accept this. They are, in effect, saying that Boycie and his girlfriend are lying about what happened, and that is unacceptable in view of the number of similar complaints.

Boycie's girlfriend is re-applying for her visa. If it is refused again, then I will take the matter up again, if Boycie wishes.

[Romfordboy]

This is a common thing, VFS at the application centre caused us problems when we submitted my wife's settlement visa application.

We got documents removed from application and split up, some were handed back to my wife. I honestly don't think a kot of the people working there know what they should and shouldn't be sending to the UKBA.

We're still waiting on the result of the application, but I've made complaints to both VFS and the UKBA at the embassy and brought it to their attention that there might be things missing from the application becuase VFS may have taken them out.

I've had replies back to say that VFS should NOT be handing anything back, they should accept everything the applicant gives them.

I know of lots of other people who had the same sort of trouble. I would encourage everyone to complain, even if you do get your visa without any problem.

[ThaiVisaExpress]

VFS are a law to themselves, I have made a complaint also they should not be removing any documents.

[Thongkorn]

A little off topic. when I applied for my wife's ILR in the UK, which was granted, when the file came back there where pictures missing, envelopes that her ESOL certificates where inside and a few other things missing , They where sent back by second class post, The postman took it appon himself to leave the Envelop outside our front door, Inside where our passports and all the other relevant documents. it seems OK for them to return peoples Visa applications for the simplest things but when it comes to them there s no recourse to complain to them.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Thongkorn

[quinetta001]

I think you will find that the UKBA do retain some of the paper work, I doubt very much if VFS would have retained any of it. It's a shame that VFS returned some of the evidence to your fiancee, it's not their job to do that. Edited March 16, 2012 by quinetta001

[VisasPlus]

The incident was investigated by the British Embassy, but they have said that, as there is no evidencethat VFS returned any documents, then they were unable to prove the case

Edited March 18, 2012 by VisasPlus

[theoldgit]

This thread beggars belief, why don't the UKBA just put their hands up and say sorry we got this one wrong, rather than defending crass decisions?

Maybe they should use mystery shoppers to test VFS.

[VisasPlus]

This thread beggars belief, why don't the UKBA just put their hands up and say sorry we got this one wrong, rather than defending crass decisions?

Maybe they should use mystery shoppers to test VFS.

That's a good idea. You live in Bangkok, so there's a job for you !

If I was in charge, perish the thought, I would be looking for an alternative to VFS. There have been a lot of complaints about the service provided, but,as you say, UKBA will not take the applicant's side. In one response to me, the ECM said that as the applicant had signed the "document checklist", he ( the ECM) had to rely on that as evidence. Fair enough, but I pointed out that many Thai's have a fear of those in authority, and if "told" to sign, then they will. In many cases, they certainly won't say no, as they do not wish any confrontation.

I have had one report ( but with not enough "evidence" to satisfy UKBA) that an applicant who was prevented from submitting everything that she wanted by VFS, was approached immediately outside VFS by those friendly people in the office next door. The representative of that office told the applicant that he understood that she had just had a problem submitting documents, and offered to assist for a fee. But, as I said, no evidence to back this up, so no good reporting it to UKBA. This is indeed the sort of thing that a "mystery shopper" might see happening.

VFS are now operating beyond their brief, I think. They fill out visa applications online for applicants, and, in my mind, that can be construed as giving immigration guidance ( which VFS are prohibited from doing ). If I tried to do that in the UK, then I would be charged with giving immigration advice without being affiliated to OISC. It looks like a double standard to me. Of course, the office next door will do it for 20 - 25,000 Baht !

[ThaiVisaExpress]

Reply from the UK/BA

Further to my replies of 1 and 8 March, thank you for supplying further information and I have noted your comments in regard to documentation handed back to the applicant and not submitted with the application. As explained previously, I have placed a note on file that if the ECO dealing with the case requires further documentation, that this should be sought prior to making a final decision.

We have taken this matter very seriously and investigated all concerns raised to the Embassy in regard to this matter sent from yourself and another visa agent. We have also raised this matter with senior managers at VFS Global, our commercial partner, and further training and detailed guidance reiterated to all VFS staff working within the Visa Application Centre. The month of March is our busiest period and we see in excess of 10,000 applications going through the VAC, a very high percentage of which go without complaint. However the latter said there is no excuse for compliancy hence the action we have taken.

[VisasPlus]

Reply from the UK/BA

Further to my replies of 1 and 8 March, thank you for supplying further information and I have noted your comments in regard to documentation handed back to the applicant and not submitted with the application. As explained previously, I have placed a note on file that if the ECO dealing with the case requires further documentation, that this should be sought prior to making a final decision.

We have taken this matter very seriously and investigated all concerns raised to the Embassy in regard to this matter sent from yourself and another visa agent. We have also raised this matter with senior managers at VFS Global, our commercial partner, and further training and detailed guidance reiterated to all VFS staff working within the Visa Application Centre. The month of March is our busiest period and we see in excess of 10,000 applications going through the VAC, a very high percentage of which go without complaint. However the latter said there is no excuse for compliancy hence the action we have taken.

Cheers, Paul. The way that reads to me is, they say - ".....we see in excess of 10,000 applications going through the VAC, a very high percentage of which go without complaint." - so they are receiving complaints about VFS. The fact that they are now giving "further training and detailed guidance" means that there is a problem(s), and that this problem(s) has been identified. As theoldgit says, why don't they put their hands up and admit it ! Or find another partner agency ?

[ThaiVisaExpress]

It would depend on how many visas per year you submit people like ourselves submit 5-10 applications per month Tony.

So we will obviously deal with them on a week to week basis.