Burma/myanmar

[Guest IT Manager]

I am interested to know what peoples' views on Myanmar/Burma are. Please don't just slag off if you don't like it/them. Add a reason. Thanks.

I am talking more about doing proper runs, not border hops. As in attending the Thai Consul.

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[JayClark]

I've been going to Myanmar for five years. Two years with one year multiple entry visas and three years as visa runs. I hate to give them 250 B each trip but it's close and who cares about the generals when we have Thaksin

[davidm]

I'm perfectly happy with the way things are in Myanmar. As an importer from that country, I have a vested interest in labour costs there remaining low and stability. The current administrators offer the best prospects from my perspective. It would be nice if they could fix some of the potholes in the roads and maintain reliable electricity supplies, though.

[Guest IT Manager]

I've been going to Myanmar for five years. Two years with one year multiple entry visas and three years as visa runs. I hate to give them 250 B each trip but it's close and who cares about the generals when we have Thaksin

Why do you hate giving them 250 baht, and are you talking about border crossings?

[fred110]

spent 6 weeeks there last year. Good trains and buses. I was there for Songkran (sp) and had a great time, people are very friendly and glad to meet foreigners. Check out Lake Inle and Ngapoli Beach. Yangon was nice, Mandalay better. The only police and soldiers I saw were unarmed and very helpful. Food was very good and very very cheap.

[Pi Sua]

I'm perfectly happy with the way things are in Myanmar. As an importer from that country, I have a vested interest in labour costs there remaining low and stability.

Sorry ######, I might be out of the subject but some comments shocked me and revolted me. I’ll explain myself.

Although I’m living in Thailand, I’m living amongst Burmese people and I know about their suffering.

I've been frequently and for so many years in Myawadie, Burmese town across the Moe River near Maesot where the Asia road India-Malaysia is temporarily ending. I have been giving them money at first 18$ then it decreased to 10$ but still, I don’t like it.

But that is not important; one of the main problems is my country (the self proclaimed country of the human rights) that has already developed and is still developing new important gas projects over there.....what a shame! That’s going to continue with the forced labour (Still some people claim that it doesn’t exist) and going to make the Junta stronger and stronger.

The Burmese intelligence has kidnapped a friend of mine, Xavier Tanguy. A French activist acting for the Karens’ cause, acting against the forced labour and also was concerned by the "cheap labour" exploitation.

I accused the M 25 (Burmese secret service) of kidnapping and killing him 2 years ago. I had to face some troubles for quite a long time going there and was always afraid of getting shot in the back. For few months, gave them the money got the stamp and was sent straight back to Thailand. After a while, I could enter further in town but I couldn’t carry a camera, couldn’t talk to anyone and was shown the way to go…..the market….the temples…sure, they have nothing to hide. As I said already in another post, I’m not going there for pleasure.

What could I say more than almost everyone who is interested and not blind already knows about this country?

My wife is from Moulmein and there, as it is everywhere in Myanmar, everything is under the army’s control. For example, a Burmese citizen from Moulmein wanted to stay a night in Thaton which is not so far from, has to explain his very reason to get an authorisation.

The army organise some collects for many different reasons at the people’s living places whether they are poor or not! Better to pay! Some people have to sell their hair to buy the only plain rice.

Did you know that the Burmese women can’t leave the territory if they’re not married or accompanied (expensive and special circumstances)? Since October 2000, they can’t even marry to a foreigner! The ones who are married have to get an exit visa.

Has anyone who has come to Myawadie had any contact, just a simple talk with a woman there? I personally don’t know anyone. With a man or a young boy making it friendly (who’s already incorporated in the Burmese intelligence) surely! He will know exactly where you can go and where you cannot.

I had an interview with some Burmese prisoners caught by the Karens’ forces. Those young militaries were under the age of 15, were just on the way to school when they had been picked up and enlisted by force in the Burmese army.

That’s the true, the real Burma, not the one they show you in the good buses and trains, smiling and happy people, the one with the unarmed soldiers! I know it exist, it’s a pure propaganda. They put you into corridors completely under surveillance and you can’t see the reality.

Here there are not any good buses, not even a single railway, the people are not smiling and the soldiers are carrying M16, Kalashnikov, have often the bayonet on it and some even have a dagger in the belt. Don’t be afraid, not between their teeth yet!

Talking about the cheap labour.

Are you really aware about the Burmese cheap labour exploitation there and here?

Let’s talk first about the Burmese workers conditions here, the last important case known:

Here, the companies employing Burmese workers have grown like mushrooms and there are really numerous and the ill-treatment by some of the managing staff is absolutely vomiting. The very most of these companies are garments, vested, and I’ve got a lot of stories, seen by my own eyes and also reported in the official complaints.

Have you heard about last month’s deportation? 269 people asking to be paid for what they had already done and also wanted to be paid for the same amount written on their pay-slip they were forced to sign. Not the same of course, the employer showed to the authorities the pay-slip showing evidence that he was in conformity with the labour department regulations and he showed that the workers were just trouble makers. Those workers had an official work permit already confiscated by the employer but whatever it is worth nothing, so they were thrown in wired trucks and sent to the deportation centre before being deported to Myanmar.

For further information, please contact Action Network for Migrants representative at MAP Foundation

Telephone: 053 811202

Fax: 053 811202

Email: [email protected]

Why do you think they accept such conditions?

If I’ve talked about the “cheap labour” in Maesot first, it was just to show that if the Burmese accept all of that, believe it or not but being humiliated as they are, getting officially a Thai salary but in reality about 50 bahts a day, paying their work permit more expensive (500 bahts every months) than the official fee (the company making profit on it), paying for the small place they use to sleep in their company sometimes on the floor, when you know that at the end of the month just 500 baht left…and they do not always get paid…... it’s definitely because the conditions are worse in their country. The workers here are from many different parts of Myanmar.

I’ve just had a phone call with a member of the Central Comity of the DPNS (Democratic party for the New Society) second party (banned in Myanmar) after the NLD (Aung San Su Kyi‘s party) also acting for the Burmese workers’ rights and he confirms that a garment factory in Myanmar give approximately 10,000 kyats a month (500 bahts) for salary…less after the deductions…..working every day often till night.

So, Mr David, no doubt, that is absolutely perfect for a foreign investor. It’s not really an attack because you provide them jobs but when you’re saying “I'm perfectly happy with the way things are in Myanmar." that let me perplexed and let me think that you are absolutely not concerned about what they have to suffer for your daily life.

How can you be happy about so much suffering?

I love the Burmese people (my wife and my son first) as I love Thai people but I definitely HATE the way it goes In Myanmar.

Have I read in a different post that they are very helpful? Say only it to a Burmese national that don’t have any connection with the Junta and you'll see his reaction. Probably they are helpful with the very common tourist because they want to be sure he’s not going in the wrong direction, he’s not going to see anything compromising.

Talking about border, the Burmese army in Myawadie are totally different from the ones at Tachilek. The way they check every Burmese entering or living Myanmar is sometimes really impressive. Here, they unfold everyone's whole clothes packages.....pieces after pieces... They even check the Burmese women's hair....

All the money given by the tourists with the FEC monkey money is almost all coming back in the Junta’s pockets. Even in Maesot, the beggars are under Burmese army’s control and some stories report that they are sometimes beaten if they don’t bring enough.

Definitely, and as far as I know, it’s not a good place to go.

As I’m not a native speaker but already seen that we have to face some critics, so as usual, sorry for the grammar and spelling mistakes.

Bruno

[Guest IT Manager]

I don't have a problem with the grammar Bruno, and if you were to speak to some of my friends, they would say that you and I are in the same place.

I put the poll up to get some insights into the issue, not to cast my lot upon the water. It was a question put, only.

I am sorry for your suffering. Believe me, I live on the other side of the same hill.

IT

[davidm]

Bruno, I'm aware of a lot of what you say. Unlike the Tak garment factories, I do pay for what I get. In full and on time.

The problems in Myanmar have been created by the people who live there, and at the risk of sounding extremely callous, I don't care what goes on there so long as I'm able to do business. I care even less for the NGOs and activists who try to change things in other countries. For every brave, principled person doing some good, there's at least one other who, when not lecturing on such vital issues as gender identity, can be seen swanning around in 4x4s, eating at the best restaurants and abusing the trust and money of those who donate to charity.

The Cambodians let them all in. The Burmese seem a bit smarter in as much that when they do resolve their current difficulties, the country won't be full of bleeding heart liberals telling them what to do.

[syd barrett]

Bruno; good post; if the people of the world knew how much the Burmese were suffering something would be done. Instead it's a wall of silence. I think British subjects at home and abroad should lobby their MP's and demand action against the evil dictatorship in Burma. I do blame China for their trade links and Thailand is not off the hook either. But as usual the worlds great powers, don't see any profit in it for themselves so they do nothing. A sad situation.

[Dodeskaden]

Dear Bruno,

Thank you for the time you took to write that post.

I had not troubled to know specifics, and am now far better informed.

[tutsiwarrior]

dodeskaden...those that take Kurosawa's name in vain are to be vilified. Why not chose Mr Watanabe instead?

Tutsi