Thai Culture

[David48]

Before this gets out of hand, how about we close this tread down and wait for the op to have a more clarified thought as a point for discussion?

Thoughts?

...

Edited February 14, 2012 by David48

[bendix]

Before this gets out of hand, how about we close this tread down and wait for the op to have a more clarified thought as a point for discussion?

Thoughts?

...

Waiting for the OP to have clear thoughts?

We could be here a while . . . . .

[F1fanatic]

Before this gets out of hand, how about we close this tread down and wait for the op to have a more clarified thought as a point for discussion?

Thoughts?

...

Waiting for the OP to have clear thoughts?

We could be here a while . . . . .

Except the OP is right - the cheating etc. are blamed on 'culture', when its nothing of the sort.

Its something that has developed v recently.

[thequietman]

To the OP:

Following my brief 'back-and-forth' with Bendix, and having read the Original Post more closely...

I have no idea what you are talking about, Quietman.

I think you might need to give us some examples.

You might need to set your stall out in a more logical way, starting with observed facts, and then working towards the point that you want to make.

Let me try and help.

1. There is some bad behaviour around that can be observed, or at least heard about through the newspapers and the complaints of others.

2. People generalise from this, and say that all Thais take bribes, drive drunk, don't smile at me when I hold the door open etc.

3. 'Thai apologists' say "that is their culture and learn to live with it".

As I understand it, you are trying to make one of two points:

Either

- It (1) is bad behaviour that is no more prevelant here than anywhere else, and therefore neither Thai culture nor particularly relevant to a Thai forum

Or

- It (1) is endemic in Thailand (i.e. (2) is more or less correct), but is not rooted in Thai culture, and could be changed and should be deprecated on this forum.

Let's face it, even if you're just having a kick-about you should still mark out your goals.

Now we've got our coats down, perhaps we can kick off again...

SC

It (1) is endemic in Thailand (i.e. (2) is more or less correct), but is not rooted in Thai culture, and could be changed and should be deprecated on this forum

firstly i am only basing my observations on what i see in the country i currently reside in, thailand. you are free to give examples of other nationalities.

Jumping the queue in 7/11 is not thai culture, it is rude. many apologists on tv have on numerous occasions put this down to a cultural difference. it isnt as not all do it.

Refusing to turn your head right and look for oncoming traffic is not culture. it is a blatant disregard for ones own safety and for others. not all do this.

making an appointment for 2 pm and turning up at 4 pm is not a cultural trait. its rude.

stealing money or taking tea money is not culture. it is theft and is done by quite the majority in law enforcement.

playing loud music until the early hours is not culture. it is a total disregard for other people.

these are but a few examples of issues that expats have. when posters continually say 'its there culture' this is quite simply not true. the majority dont live or behave like this.

when a poster has a genuine grieviance and wants to discuss in on tv, he gets the usual response, 'its their culture, if you dont like it...................... and we know the rest.

these examples and many others are not a part of culture in any country and should be discouraged as such. my point is that apologists need to recognise that these are not parts of culture and are open for discussion. No, i wont go home. this is my home now as it is for many on tv and we are entitled to our opinions.

[theblether]

I'm in agreement with the previous few contributors........I can see this ending badly

edit, the OP answered when I was replying.......

Edited February 14, 2012 by theblether

[theblether]

To the OP:

Following my brief 'back-and-forth' with Bendix, and having read the Original Post more closely...

I have no idea what you are talking about, Quietman.

I think you might need to give us some examples.

You might need to set your stall out in a more logical way, starting with observed facts, and then working towards the point that you want to make.

Let me try and help.

1. There is some bad behaviour around that can be observed, or at least heard about through the newspapers and the complaints of others.

2. People generalise from this, and say that all Thais take bribes, drive drunk, don't smile at me when I hold the door open etc.

3. 'Thai apologists' say "that is their culture and learn to live with it".

As I understand it, you are trying to make one of two points:

Either

- It (1) is bad behaviour that is no more prevelant here than anywhere else, and therefore neither Thai culture nor particularly relevant to a Thai forum

Or

- It (1) is endemic in Thailand (i.e. (2) is more or less correct), but is not rooted in Thai culture, and could be changed and should be deprecated on this forum.

Let's face it, even if you're just having a kick-about you should still mark out your goals.

Now we've got our coats down, perhaps we can kick off again...

SC

It (1) is endemic in Thailand (i.e. (2) is more or less correct), but is not rooted in Thai culture, and could be changed and should be deprecated on this forum

firstly i am only basing my observations on what i see in the country i currently reside in, thailand. you are free to give examples of other nationalities.

Jumping the queue in 7/11 is not thai culture, it is rude. many apologists on tv have on numerous occasions put this down to a cultural difference. it isnt as not all do it.

Refusing to turn your head right and look for oncoming traffic is not culture. it is a blatant disregard for ones own safety and for others. not all do this.

making an appointment for 2 pm and turning up at 4 pm is not a cultural trait. its rude.

stealing money or taking tea money is not culture. it is theft and is done by quite the majority in law enforcement.

playing loud music until the early hours is not culture. it is a total disregard for other people.

these are but a few examples of issues that expats have. when posters continually say 'its there culture' this is quite simply not true. the majority dont live or behave like this.

when a poster has a genuine grieviance and wants to discuss in on tv, he gets the usual response, 'its their culture, if you dont like it...................... and we know the rest.

these examples and many others are not a part of culture in any country and should be discouraged as such. my point is that apologists need to recognise that these are not parts of culture and are open for discussion. No, i wont go home. this is my home now as it is for many on tv and we are entitled to our opinions.

OK........

The root of the problem is that Thai Culture is often used as cover for ridiculous and stupid behaviour, for lies, and for ignorance to flourish.

If you had to separate out real Thai Culture, which is primarily rooted in Buddhism and the teachings of Buddha, along with the many beautiful animist type festivals etc then you have a wonderful and family oriented society.

However, although the rules are well known, as per usual it's human weaknesses that poison the well.

So it's not Thai culture to be rude, obnoxious, deceitful, murderous, adulterous, promiscuous, criminal, judgemental, envious, greedy, corrupt and racist.

That's Human Nature getting in the way......who would have thought that possible huh?

[sysardman]

Before this gets out of hand, how about we close this tread down and wait for the op to have a more clarified thought as a point for discussion?

Thoughts?

...

Totally agree, we can argue all day long and nothing will change. If something bothers you then take it up with the people concerned. By the way I've lived all over Thailand and the loud music thing is very much a part of Thai culture, the people love their festivals and I've found the best way to deal with that is buy some earplugs.

[Berkshire]

Why do you continually choose to dwell upon the negative when discussing Thailand? Bendix makes an absolutely valid point when bringing up other nationalities, which is that you can cherry-pick the negative aspects of any society. Bad behavior by a small minority is just that--bad behavior by a small minority. It's not a Thai thing...or an English thing...or a Nigerian thing. I'd never use culture as an excuse for bad behavior and it seems that it's usually the Thai-bashers who do that.

But I notice you'd never bring up the positive aspects of the Thai culture to discuss. I tend to think that you don't believe there are any positive aspects of the Thai culture, correct? If you can answer that without the usual sarcasm, I'd be really impressed.

Positives.

I think most of the thai positives come at the expense of general lack of law and order. however the strong family tie is to be commended and the thai health system, if that comes under culture. a beautiful country with a very laid back approach to life is also good. the thai women are beautiful (culture ? ) and the food is delicious. the traditional thai dress is indeed pretty as is thai dancing.

however if you set out a list of the things you regard as essential thai culture, i will bet most are not really culture but a means to an end. how about a list of positive thai culture from yourself please and maybe other tv members can decide if it is truely cultural or just an excuse to behave badly. suggestions of other asian cultures is most welcome also as this post isn't directed exclusively at the thai people but all cultures in general. thanks.

Hmmm, my view of the "positives" of Thai culture would be things like love/loyalty to the family, particularly the parents, respect for the elders (the old farts on this forum should appreciate that), quality of life over getting-ahead, trying to live in peace and harmony, love of country/king/peoples, self-identity (more so than, say, the PI), acceptance of outsiders (much more so here than in other countries I've visited), religion in the proper perspective (not overly as in radical Islam or Christian fundamentalist), etc. The women, weather, cost-of-living, medical system, etc., doesn't really define culture in my mind. Nor do the behaviors of a few rogue individuals, e.g., corrupt govt officials, predatory BGs/ladyboys, crazy van/tuk tuk drivers, jet ski mafia, etc.

[sysardman]

I'm not sure I agree with sysard when he tries to suggest that greed etc are western values imported into Thailand. Greed, avarice, selfishness etc are innately HUMAN characteristics which have been part of human life since the year dot - it doesn't matter what cultural attributes your nation or race has, individual human characterstics will always pervade.

The traditional British cultural attribute is politeness, orderly queueing, a certain sang froid or stiff upper lip, yet the pervasive behaviour of the average Brit in 2012 is nothing like that. It is the class of individualism v culture.

I dont profess to be an expert on Thai culture, but I would imagine most people would think it is centred around things like grace, gentility, respect for elders, family, serenity etc. Again, modern Thai individuals are not universally like that also.

Which raises the question of why? I would suggest it's because of the rise of the individual at the expense of the collective. We're all important now. We all want everything because, in the words of the advert 'Because we deserve it'.

Consumerism, relative affluence, our gradual progression up the Maslow hierarchy of needs pyramid. These are the things which have created a range of human behaviours which have everthing to do with being human and nothing to do with being Thai, English, German or from Bongobongo tribe in the Lesotho jungle.

But you are agreeing with me, I said that it's the consumerism influence that is bringing out all those nasties. The poster who mentioned the beer ad, that's just marketing - drinking Bud = being American, drinking bitter = British, lager = Scandanavian or Australian etc.

[GarryP]

Is "the driver ran away from the scene of the accident" a cultural thing? I don't know of any other countries where this happens so frequently. The newspapers here have been known to say "the driver left the scene as usual". Is adultery a cultural thing? People from many cultures commit adultery, but when the same is accepted as normal, such as the case of France, Italy and Thailand (supposedly), does not that then become part of your cultural identity?

Apart from those worthless musings, I do believe that a lot is put down to or blamed on culture when in fact culture has nothing to do with it. Bad behaviour is just that, bad behaviour.

Edited February 14, 2012 by GarryP

[Berkshire]

i am trying to find out why do you feel that putting anything disfunctional, selfish, arrogant, self serving, erratic and down right stupid down as 'its their culture' is the easy way out for the thai apologists here on THAIvisa forum. why can't we just call it as it is ?"

thanks.

I'm not sure people do put it down as 'it's their culture'

As I have been saying, those dysfunctional, selfish, arrogant, self-serving, erratic and downright stupid things are uniquely human (not Thai, not English, not Irish or American) characteristics. They happen everywhere.

I would never intellectualise behaviour and attribute it to culture, so I don't know who these apologists are.

Bad behaviour is bad behaviour. It happens here. It happens everywhere.

So I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove.

I've been trying to say the same thing. Who are these "apologists" that he keeps bringing up? On the contrary, I've seen Thai-bashers and haters trying to blame certain specific events/individuals on the Thai culture. If he had started with that angle, it might make a little more sense.

[theblether]

I'm not sure I agree with sysard when he tries to suggest that greed etc are western values imported into Thailand. Greed, avarice, selfishness etc are innately HUMAN characteristics which have been part of human life since the year dot - it doesn't matter what cultural attributes your nation or race has, individual human characterstics will always pervade.

The traditional British cultural attribute is politeness, orderly queueing, a certain sang froid or stiff upper lip, yet the pervasive behaviour of the average Brit in 2012 is nothing like that. It is the class of individualism v culture.

I dont profess to be an expert on Thai culture, but I would imagine most people would think it is centred around things like grace, gentility, respect for elders, family, serenity etc. Again, modern Thai individuals are not universally like that also.

Which raises the question of why? I would suggest it's because of the rise of the individual at the expense of the collective. We're all important now. We all want everything because, in the words of the advert 'Because we deserve it'.

Consumerism, relative affluence, our gradual progression up the Maslow hierarchy of needs pyramid. These are the things which have created a range of human behaviours which have everthing to do with being human and nothing to do with being Thai, English, German or from Bongobongo tribe in the Lesotho jungle.

But you are agreeing with me, I said that it's the consumerism influence that is bringing out all those nasties. The poster who mentioned the beer ad, that's just marketing - drinking Bud = being American, drinking bitter = British, lager = Scandanavian or Australian etc.

It's always easy to share when you have nothing.........when mammon rears it's head human nature takes over.

I had a battle on this subject here on Thaivisa a few months ago........it hasn't been that long when you could leave your doors open in the West, when people shared everything......the wealthier the West became the mammonites came to the fore and now we are building higher fences and installing security systems.

It's going to happen here too......it's human nature.

By the way don't get the impression that I am a religious nut because I am using phrases like mammonites........I'm only doing it to point out that these human vices were well known in biblical times, there's nothing new under the sun.

[F1fanatic]

I'm not sure I agree with sysard when he tries to suggest that greed etc are western values imported into Thailand. Greed, avarice, selfishness etc are innately HUMAN characteristics which have been part of human life since the year dot - it doesn't matter what cultural attributes your nation or race has, individual human characterstics will always pervade.

The traditional British cultural attribute is politeness, orderly queueing, a certain sang froid or stiff upper lip, yet the pervasive behaviour of the average Brit in 2012 is nothing like that. It is the class of individualism v culture.

I dont profess to be an expert on Thai culture, but I would imagine most people would think it is centred around things like grace, gentility, respect for elders, family, serenity etc. Again, modern Thai individuals are not universally like that also.

Which raises the question of why? I would suggest it's because of the rise of the individual at the expense of the collective. We're all important now. We all want everything because, in the words of the advert 'Because we deserve it'.

Consumerism, relative affluence, our gradual progression up the Maslow hierarchy of needs pyramid. These are the things which have created a range of human behaviours which have everthing to do with being human and nothing to do with being Thai, English, German or from Bongobongo tribe in the Lesotho jungle.

But you are agreeing with me, I said that it's the consumerism influence that is bringing out all those nasties. The poster who mentioned the beer ad, that's just marketing - drinking Bud = being American, drinking bitter = British, lager = Scandanavian or Australian etc.

It's always easy to share when you have nothing.........when mammon rears it's head human nature takes over.

I had a battle on this subject here on Thaivisa a few months ago........it hasn't been that long when you could leave your doors open in the West, when people shared everything......the wealthier the West became the mammonites came to the fore and now we are building higher fences and installing security systems.

It's going to happen here too......it's human nature.

By the way don't get the impression that I am a religious nut because I am using phrases like mammonites........I'm only doing it to point out that these human vices were well known in biblical times, there's nothing new under the sun.

I suspect that times are changing too quickly here - hence the variation from normal values.

It will be interesting (or more likely, depressing) to see what happens in Europe now that their economies are going down the drain.

Will the 'shared' hardship result in more sharing? Or will it lead to greater greed?

[thequietman]

Before this gets out of hand, how about we close this tread down and wait for the op to have a more clarified thought as a point for discussion?

Thoughts?

...

Totally agree, we can argue all day long and nothing will change. If something bothers you then take it up with the people concerned. By the way I've lived all over Thailand and the loud music thing is very much a part of Thai culture, the people love their festivals and I've found the best way to deal with that is buy some earplugs.

once again you have labelled loud music as a part of the culture here. it isnt. this is not the norm at most funerals, parties etc. there are noise laws here as regards loudness and the times of day it can be played. the fact that these laws aren,t enforced doesnt immediately make it culture.

why must you label all thai people like this. they are not all the same. now you are thai bashing. suggesting that all thai people like loud music and will play it as loud and for as long as they want it to.

this is my point. before you suggest that everyone should get ear plugs and accept it or get the hell out, why don't you try to look at it as socially unacceptable and as such should be discouraged. i am familiar with thai culture and i make sure that i follow all proper thai culture to the letter so i dont offend anyone.

however labelling every ill mannered, inconsiderate, selfish and unlawful act as culture and i better get used to i,t is wrong.

if this post makes just one thai tv member pause before he types those immortal words, 'if you dont like it,go home............. its their culture, adapt or go home" then this post will have been worth while. if some posters on here insist on labelling any thing different from what they are used to as 'culture' irrespective of if its insane,rude,inconsiderate, unlawful outcome, then You are thai bashing. you are labelling all thais when it is just the few.

take care and be careful out there.

[GarryP]

I have been to god knows how many ordinations, weddings, merit making ceremonies, parties, etc (excluding funerals) in the countryside and one of the things they all have in common apart from alcohol being served, is the decibel level of the music being played. I would venture to say that it is very much a cultural thing.

[Berkshire]

I'm not sure I agree with sysard when he tries to suggest that greed etc are western values imported into Thailand. Greed, avarice, selfishness etc are innately HUMAN characteristics which have been part of human life since the year dot - it doesn't matter what cultural attributes your nation or race has, individual human characterstics will always pervade.

The traditional British cultural attribute is politeness, orderly queueing, a certain sang froid or stiff upper lip, yet the pervasive behaviour of the average Brit in 2012 is nothing like that. It is the class of individualism v culture.

I dont profess to be an expert on Thai culture, but I would imagine most people would think it is centred around things like grace, gentility, respect for elders, family, serenity etc. Again, modern Thai individuals are not universally like that also.

Which raises the question of why? I would suggest it's because of the rise of the individual at the expense of the collective. We're all important now. We all want everything because, in the words of the advert 'Because we deserve it'.

Consumerism, relative affluence, our gradual progression up the Maslow hierarchy of needs pyramid. These are the things which have created a range of human behaviours which have everthing to do with being human and nothing to do with being Thai, English, German or from Bongobongo tribe in the Lesotho jungle.

But you are agreeing with me, I said that it's the consumerism influence that is bringing out all those nasties. The poster who mentioned the beer ad, that's just marketing - drinking Bud = being American, drinking bitter = British, lager = Scandanavian or Australian etc.

I understand what you're saying, but it's going to be a hard sell. For example, some of these Isaan princesses and their village onlookers, they may have been brainwashed to believe that money and materialism rules. But they are certainly willing participants. It's complicated, the evolution of societies in general. Individualistic societies (i.e., the west) have been winning the hearts and minds of youth the world over. But there's no telling where societies are going, especially as the west is drowning in debt and other social ills. If China ever decides to export their "culture"...who knows.

[sysardman]

Before this gets out of hand, how about we close this tread down and wait for the op to have a more clarified thought as a point for discussion?

Thoughts?

...

Totally agree, we can argue all day long and nothing will change. If something bothers you then take it up with the people concerned. By the way I've lived all over Thailand and the loud music thing is very much a part of Thai culture, the people love their festivals and I've found the best way to deal with that is buy some earplugs.

once again you have labelled loud music as a part of the culture here. it isnt. this is not the norm at most funerals, parties etc. there are noise laws here as regards loudness and the times of day it can be played. the fact that these laws aren,t enforced doesnt immediately make it culture.

why must you label all thai people like this. they are not all the same. now you are thai bashing. suggesting that all thai people like loud music and will play it as loud and for as long as they want it to.

this is my point. before you suggest that everyone should get ear plugs and accept it or get the hell out, why don't you try to look at it as socially unacceptable and as such should be discouraged. i am familiar with thai culture and i make sure that i follow all proper thai culture to the letter so i dont offend anyone.

however labelling every ill mannered, inconsiderate, selfish and unlawful act as culture and i better get used to i,t is wrong.

if this post makes just one thai tv member pause before he types those immortal words, 'if you dont like it,go home............. its their culture, adapt or go home" then this post will have been worth while. if some posters on here insist on labelling any thing different from what they are used to as 'culture' irrespective of if its insane,rude,inconsiderate, unlawful outcome, then You are thai bashing. you are labelling all thais when it is just the few.

take care and be careful out there.

So what are you proposing we do? like I said moaning about it on Thaivisa won't solve a thing. So you come up with a plan and get on with it.

[David48]

Usually Google gets an idea what to advertise on this page by the consistent themes in the post.

When there was flooding ... we got flood prevention measures (sometimes we got scuba-diving lessons ... funny now, not then).

When there was travel disruptions we got ads for discounted plane tickets.

Most of the time we get Asian Dating sites ... because we talk about the 'fairer sex' ... ok, maybe not if she has a Surin rice farmers tan (and I have a soft sport for the Surin ladies).

With your post ... what did we get?

Even Google is confused ... maybe it's also trying to find the best (shoe to) fit for your post!

I'm way too confused to contribute anything sensible because I have no idea what the OP is on about.

Edit ... trying to get the Google add to even fit this post!

Edited February 14, 2012 by David48

[xthAi76s]

i am trying to find out why do you feel that putting anything disfunctional, selfish, arrogant, self serving, erratic and down right stupid down as 'its their culture' is the easy way out for the thai apologists here on THAIvisa forum. why can't we just call it as it is ?"

thanks.

I'm not sure people do put it down as 'it's their culture'

As I have been saying, those dysfunctional, selfish, arrogant, self-serving, erratic and downright stupid things are uniquely human (not Thai, not English, not Irish or American) characteristics. They happen everywhere.

I would never intellectualise behaviour and attribute it to culture, so I don't know who these apologists are.

Bad behaviour is bad behaviour. It happens here. It happens everywhere.

So I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove.

I've been trying to say the same thing. Who are these "apologists" that he keeps bringing up? On the contrary, I've seen Thai-bashers and haters trying to blame certain specific events/individuals on the Thai culture. If he had started with that angle, it might make a little more sense.

I don't like naming and shaming, and, in fact, it may be against forum rules, but there are indeed some Thai apologist on TV. With tens of thousands of members, who would expect there not to be?

Culture is such a tricky thing.

To have a very shallow answer to the OP, I think there could be any number of psychological factors motivating 'apologists' who excuse or explain away certain behaviors as attributable to culture. One reason could be that such an 'apologist' doesn't truly understand what 'culture' actually is or has some idea, but, culture being so nebulous, does not know how to distinguish culture from acts that are perhaps not part of culture perse but influenced by culture to acts that are purely selfish, poor, etc and have nothing to do with culture...

Anyway, some of the other answers are likely more helpful.

I think much of what we witness probably falls into the category of things influenced by culture but perhaps things which don't infact live up to the cultural ideals of the particular culture (Thai culture, in this case).

Also, I think of culture as being nebulous enough that you can think of it as a continuum of sorts. It's a line on which any particular trait, if you will, can fall within a certain degree of expression and still be considered something either 1) part of the cultural ideal or at least something 2) (strongly) influenced by the culture, so it's hard to pinpoint.

I am no Thai apologist, but there are cultures of people all over the world who overwhelmingly don't live up to their ideals.

The question for me is since I do believe that, as imperfect human beings, most of us will not live up to cultural ideals, "how do certain cultural ideals or things generally accepted as culture influence acts in society, if there is any link at all".

But, you know, since it's hard as hell to understand, it's just easier to either 1) bash away, or 2) just claim culture and tell people they must respect and comply.

After being here on and off for almost 10 years, I'm rather sure Thais just feel it's too hot to think so much about this complicated stuff.

Edited February 14, 2012 by ThailandMan

[Ulysses G.]

Except the OP is right - the cheating etc. are blamed on 'culture', when its nothing of the sort.

Its something that has developed v recently.

My cousin has lived here since the late 1950s and he says that this kind of behavior was just as prevalent when he first got here, but no Internet to whinge about it back then.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[silsburyhill]

I believe what is seen as 'bad Thai culture' - greed/arrogance/lying/cheating is because the social mores of this country are such that 'yes they can!', get away with it, that is Partially due to lack of law enforcement and the ubiquitous 'face/non-confrontational' thing. That's not to say I have never heard a Thai complain about this type of behaviour by their fellow Thais, it's simply not 'done' to call anyone out on it. Suffer in silence better.

As to the West being less greedy/arrogant/lying/cheating et al, the majority of the western populace has decades, nay centuries to toe the line and expect a fat lip/spell in jail/being voted out of government and not to be moved to an 'inactive post', but to be banged up, whether wealthy/powerful or not. Witness the World News forum regarding some Swiss billionaire and another wealthy chap getting 18 years for wrongdoing. As has oft been said, 'can you see that happening here?' Well, no, not yet. But Thailand's neighbours are making strides, particularly China. Thailand has a very very long way to go.

All that being said, I have had locals hold doors open for me, thank me (occasionally) when I do the same, and look astonished, smile and wai when I stop at crossings to allow them to pass/let them out of turnings. Small pleasures ...

[sysardman]

I believe what is seen as 'bad Thai culture' - greed/arrogance/lying/cheating is because the social mores of this country are such that 'yes they can!', get away with it, that is Partially due to lack of law enforcement and the ubiquitous 'face/non-confrontational' thing. That's not to say I have never heard a Thai complain about this type of behaviour by their fellow Thais, it's simply not 'done' to call anyone out on it. Suffer in silence better.

As to the West being less greedy/arrogant/lying/cheating et al, the majority of the western populace has decades, nay centuries to toe the line and expect a fat lip/spell in jail/being voted out of government and not to be moved to an 'inactive post', but to be banged up, whether wealthy/powerful or not. Witness the World News forum regarding some Swiss billionaire and another wealthy chap getting 18 years for wrongdoing. As has oft been said, 'can you see that happening here?' Well, no, not yet. But Thailand's neighbours are making strides, particularly China. Thailand has a very very long way to go.

All that being said, I have had locals hold doors open for me, thank me (occasionally) when I do the same, and look astonished, smile and wai when I stop at crossings to allow them to pass/let them out of turnings. Small pleasures ...

I held a door open for a Thai guy who was carrying a PC coming out of an IT mall and he smiled and thanked me (invite for the Thai bashers who're probably going to say he'd just nicked it)

[Pacificperson]

I believe what is seen as 'bad Thai culture' - greed/arrogance/lying/cheating is because the social mores of this country are such that 'yes they can!', get away with it, that is Partially due to lack of law enforcement and the ubiquitous 'face/non-confrontational' thing. That's not to say I have never heard a Thai complain about this type of behaviour by their fellow Thais, it's simply not 'done' to call anyone out on it. Suffer in silence better.

As to the West being less greedy/arrogant/lying/cheating et al, the majority of the western populace has decades, nay centuries to toe the line and expect a fat lip/spell in jail/being voted out of government and not to be moved to an 'inactive post', but to be banged up, whether wealthy/powerful or not. Witness the World News forum regarding some Swiss billionaire and another wealthy chap getting 18 years for wrongdoing. As has oft been said, 'can you see that happening here?' Well, no, not yet. But Thailand's neighbours are making strides, particularly China. Thailand has a very very long way to go.

All that being said, I have had locals hold doors open for me, thank me (occasionally) when I do the same, and look astonished, smile and wai when I stop at crossings to allow them to pass/let them out of turnings. Small pleasures ...

Small pleasures +1

[lonexpat]

Apart from the nose picking, I"ve seen more cuture in yoghurt.

[MAJIC]

You're problem is that you have cherry picked a definition of "culture" to support your contention and you have picked the wrong one.

I concur. The question is loaded.

The usual Paranoid answer UG.

[StreetCowboy]

You're problem is that you have cherry picked a definition of "culture" to support your contention and you have picked the wrong one.

I concur. The question is loaded.

The usual Paranoid answer UG.

To be fair, it was on the rhetorical diatribe end of the questioning scale, not the wryly quizzical

SC