New Way Of Income - Music Copyright Tax?

[Swiss1960]

Hi All

I just received a call from my friend who is owner of some massage shops in Pattaya. Last night, police showed up in her shop and told her, that the music she plays in her shops is deemed illegal and infringing copyright of the authors... she copied the music from various CD to a USB stick and of course plays it all day for customers to relax.

Options: either go to court... or pay 20'000 Baht per year to cover copyrights for the music in all of her shops together... police told her that they started this new source of income just right now and over the next days, they will fine every shop where they hear music playing...

Anyone heard from other places where this happens now?

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

I would tell the police fine just give me the contact information on who you send the copyright money to and I will send it myself and show you the receipt. Iiliminate the middleman work for the police. Willing to bet the copyright money never leaves Thailand. And police have no address to send it to.

[Swiss1960]

Well, good idea... but you should know why it works:

she: "what is he law? why I have to pay now?"

police:"it is law. you must pay."

she: "why I must pay? who receive money?"

police: "you must pay. we collect money, send to headquarter"

she: "who I must ask about law?"

police: "not know... call headquarter... I only follow instructions"

she: "I not want to pay, if you not show me why"

police: "no problem... will confiscate all music systems... then you go to court"

she: "how much I must pay?"

as shop owner, you just have no choice... except you want 5 policemen to come to your shops and tear out all the cabling and take all speakers and players with them... and of course find other things that they will fine you for... court procedure will take months, specially if they collect this "tax" widely in all shops at the same time...

Don't misunderstand me. I don't say that such a tax is not valid, the same applies here in Europe for every shop, collect by GZS in Germany or Billag in Switzerland... every shop that plays music, every shop that has TV or - since few years - even only Internet access that would allow to play music on a computer must pay this tax...

it's more about why they now start to collect it and how they collect it...

Edited February 16, 2012 by Swiss1960

[thaiclan]

Not sure who covers licensing in South East Asia, but I think it may be APRA. Here is a link. For a massage/fitness place the fee is AU$126 per year (approx 4k baht) to play background music.

http://www.apra-amcos.com.au/MusicConsumers/Findalicencetosuityourneeds/Performplaycopymusicinabusinessorganization.aspx

[FarangBuddha]

What it is with business owners in Thailand (or anywhere) who think it is their right to violate the copyright's of music/video creators by playing such materials for their own monetary benefit in their commercial businesses? How would they feel if the owners of these rights came to their shops and just took money out their tills that they didn't earn?

Instead of stealing the intellectual property of others, why not do the proper thing and either (1) Purchase a commercial license for the music/video one want's to play in one's business, (2) Pay a local musician/band to record some nice background music and obtain the license for it, of (3) Download from the internet music that is either in the public domain or has been provided to the public under a general public license by the artist, i.e., it is not copyrighted.

[saengsureeya]

But isn't there a difference in Thai music and non-Thai music?

I've heard........yes heard.....that the music-coppers aren't really bothered about non-Thai music.

Over the years I've heard a lot of stories about this enforcement of the "music-law". Now that they are warning for those upcoming actions, more fake coppers will pop up too.

Edited February 16, 2012 by saengsureeya

[samsiam]

Turn the radio on...is there a charge for that ??

The same music is available on the radio for free.....say it is copied from there.

[TheWalkingMan]

Smells like another collection scam. Sure the people may not have a license to play music, but when did the copyright agency hire the police to collect fines.

[Swiss1960]

Turn the radio on...is there a charge for that ??

The same music is available on the radio for free.....say it is copied from there.

I don't know in Thailand, but I assume it would be the same as in Europe: If you have a shop and you play radio => you pay a tax for that. You download music from any place (radio, CD, Internet) and use it not for private but for commercial use => you pay a tax for that.

Give you one example: I am playing in a marching band and for every peace of work that we play publicly (no matter whether we get paid for the concert or ask for donations or ask for nothing), we must report theses works on a form to the Swiss Music Copyright Agency and we get invoiced for this.

[Gone]

If she is Thai then have her call the NACC (National Anti Corruption Center) at 02-528-4800 or 02-282-3161

But first if she does not have the proper license then she is in the wrong. The problem with that is knowing wether the police are real or not. A call to Banglamung Police station might help.

The "copyright police are real but they usually troll around with a representative of the "Copyright Section" out of bangkok but use local police to help them enforce this law.

I had 8 police try to extract money from me a few years ago but for other reasons when I was living in my house in a gated village. I would not open my big sliding stainless steel gate and let them in as they showed me no warrant. I had 2 dogs in my property. 3 of the 8 were in uniform and showed some badge. When he tried to put his hand in my gate to wave a gun at my dogs i ran over with a very large machete and cut one of his fingers off. Blood everywhere. Then I called the Nongprue police and they came by and were extremely pissed that these fake cops were trying to muscle in on their tea money. They told me I was within my rights and escorted all 8 fake cops away.

My point is find out if they are real police first and call the real police "banglamung" to check.

PS: Yes his gun fell inside my gate and he picked it up after and no I did not get shot.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Gone

[LennyW]

Turn the radio on...is there a charge for that ??

The same music is available on the radio for free.....say it is copied from there.

I've wonderd about that too, not so much copying from the radio but actually playing the radio live, any tax / restriction on doing that anyone?

I am talking about Thailand, not UK / Europe.

[Gone]

My buddy (Restaurant/Cafe/Bar owner in NaJomtien just live streams Australian music from his notebook.

[stoneyboy]

My buddy (Restaurant/Cafe/Bar owner in NaJomtien just live streams Australian music from his notebook.

Must be a exciting,Kylie,Jason Donovan,Rolf Harris and Men at work.

[JohnC]

Have a look at this site and the charges for playing music in different types of business, your friend could register and pay a lot less! It is written in Thai but I used my Google translator. For example: Office / reception area / pool / beauty salon - beauty salon. / reception area / pool / beauty salon - beauty salon. 10 baht / sq m / year.

aht / sq m / year.

http://www.mct.in.th..._mct&tab_menu=0

http://www.mct.in.th...u=0&sub_menu=th

Edited February 16, 2012 by JohnC

[Gone]

My buddy (Restaurant/Cafe/Bar owner in NaJomtien just live streams Australian music from his notebook.

Must be a exciting,Kylie,Jason Donovan,Rolf Harris and Men at work.

I don't know why my "edit" didn't work but I did say Australian Radio. lol. Not just Aussie artists. Great selection of International music. Or could live stream what ever you feel your customers like. Any radio is no infringement on copyright.

[NewlyMintedThai]

If she is Thai then have her call the NACC (National Anti Corruption Center) at 02-528-4800 or 02-282-3161

But first if she does not have the proper license then she is in the wrong. The problem with that is knowing wether the police are real or not. A call to Banglamung Police station might help.

The "copyright police are real but they usually troll around with a representative of the "Copyright Section" out of bangkok but use local police to help them enforce this law.

I had 8 police try to extract money from me a few years ago but for other reasons when I was living in my house in a gated village. I would not open my big sliding stainless steel gate and let them in as they showed me no warrant. I had 2 dogs in my property. 3 of the 8 were in uniform and showed some badge. When he tried to put his hand in my gate to wave a gun at my dogs i ran over with a very large machete and cut one of his fingers off. Blood everywhere. Then I called the Nongprue police and they came by and were extremely pissed that these fake cops were trying to muscle in on their tea money. They told me I was within my rights and escorted all 8 fake cops away.

My point is find out if they are real police first and call the real police "banglamung" to check.

PS: Yes his gun fell inside my gate and he picked it up after and no I did not get shot.

What were these guys after you for? Were you up to something illegal? Cops whether real or fake don't usually prey on people who keep their noses clean.

Edited February 16, 2012 by NewlyMintedThai

[Gone]

If she is Thai then have her call the NACC (National Anti Corruption Center) at 02-528-4800 or 02-282-3161

But first if she does not have the proper license then she is in the wrong. The problem with that is knowing wether the police are real or not. A call to Banglamung Police station might help.

The "copyright police are real but they usually troll around with a representative of the "Copyright Section" out of bangkok but use local police to help them enforce this law.

I had 8 police try to extract money from me a few years ago but for other reasons when I was living in my house in a gated village. I would not open my big sliding stainless steel gate and let them in as they showed me no warrant. I had 2 dogs in my property. 3 of the 8 were in uniform and showed some badge. When he tried to put his hand in my gate to wave a gun at my dogs i ran over with a very large machete and cut one of his fingers off. Blood everywhere. Then I called the Nongprue police and they came by and were extremely pissed that these fake cops were trying to muscle in on their tea money. They told me I was within my rights and escorted all 8 fake cops away.

My point is find out if they are real police first and call the real police "banglamung" to check.

PS: Yes his gun fell inside my gate and he picked it up after and no I did not get shot.

What were these guys after you for? Were you up to something illegal? Cops whether real or fake don't usually prey on people who keep their noses clean.

Never have been up to no good here and never will be. Just a typical farang fights with Thai gf, Thai gf calls police (or fake police), police think farang has money and doesn't know his rights. Real police show up, fake police escorted away, farang free to live life once again

[xen]

This music copyright could be taken to riduculous extremes where every taxi driver who has music playing in his cab has to show a licence.

[Swiss1960]

This music copyright could be taken to riduculous extremes where every taxi driver who has music playing in his cab has to show a licence.

As strange as it sounds... but that is the situation in Switzerland... you might have no Radio, TV, Internet access at home and therefore not pay the Copyright taxes to the Swiss Billag collection agency... but as soon as you have a (private) car with radio, you are obliged to pay this tax And taxi companies pay it for their whole fleet...

Edited February 17, 2012 by Swiss1960

[Gone]

This music copyright could be taken to riduculous extremes where every taxi driver who has music playing in his cab has to show a licence.

As strange as it sounds... but that is the situation in Switzerland... you might have no Radio, TV, Internet access at home and therefore not pay the Copyright taxes to the Swiss Billag collection agency... but as soon as you have a (private) car with radio, you are obliged to pay this tax And taxi companies pay it for their whole fleet...

WOW I knew you guys had harsh tax laws there but I didn't know it was that crazy. lol.

Sony Walkman's, iPods?

[OZEMADE]

I wonder if Sophon Cable TV and the radio stations are paying copywrite tax. I dont thinkl so as most of the DVD &CD they play are copies. You can easily tell they ar pirated by the poor quality, sound and the same as we all purchase they sometimes stop. What a crock, it's just another scam by the BIB, or fake cops.

Go to the cop station and ask. If no satisfactory answer, go higher. There is no law to my knowledge that states you cant have music to listen to in any home or premises. They may want to try collecting cash from Central Festival Plaza as they play background music all day.

[Swiss1960]

This music copyright could be taken to riduculous extremes where every taxi driver who has music playing in his cab has to show a licence.

As strange as it sounds... but that is the situation in Switzerland... you might have no Radio, TV, Internet access at home and therefore not pay the Copyright taxes to the Swiss Billag collection agency... but as soon as you have a (private) car with radio, you are obliged to pay this tax And taxi companies pay it for their whole fleet...

WOW I knew you guys had harsh tax laws there but I didn't know it was that crazy. lol.

Sony Walkman's, iPods?

Walkmans, iPod, iPAD etc. come with the copyright fee included in the HW price when you purchase it. 2 years ago, their was even a discussion to raise a copyright tax on storage systems (i.e. external harddrives, USB sticks) based on volume of data they can hold, so then you could store whatever music / film etc you want. Fortunately, this was not approved by the parliament.

[KhaoNiaw]

This is a long-running way of raising funds in Bangkok and other parts of Thailand anyway. Maybe new to Pattaya.

It happened to my sis-in-law, at her restaurant in Samutprakan, where she had one of those karaoke machines. After the initial demand in the tens of thousands, she was able to bargain down to just a few thousand. She just has a small place with a few tables so no way was she going to pay the original sum.