Pushing, Shoving And Line Jumping

[pumpum]

I am tall and sturdy most of the time I just don't let them move me and use my size back without being aggressive. Want to walk into me then you get a lesson in Physics 124kg vs 60kg <For some odd reason they always walk into my shoulder> Trust me they understand you just have to let them know you don't care because you understand they are the ones with a poor upbringing. But on a side note I also live in Thailand and I see Europeans especially Russians pulling this crap all the time. My favorite is the Thai idiots who stand in front of the escalator and talk I just walk through them and laugh. I had to give some Indian woman the stiff arm for knocking into my girlfriend like she was not there. People react when they realize they get a taste of their own medicine. Most of the Thais in my neighborhood do not tolerate line cutting especially if its me because I am always so nice and friendly. In fact nothing puts a smile on my face like someone pulling a "Invisible farang" routine and the stall owner pulling the "invisible Thai" routine. The look on their face is priceless like "what do you mean he was in line but I am Thai!" It pays to be nice where you live because I found the Thais where I live will go out of their way to reciprocate a smile and a kind gesture. As far as the grocery store goes I take no prisoners. They cut I just move their stuff into a basket if the cashier does nothing then I touch everything then leave it in a basket on the ground in front of the line. They take losing face so much different than us.

Yea, they certainly do (regarding losing face) because they don't make up issues in their own mind where they need to feel the need to get violent because somebody bumped their girlfriend in a crowded or high traffic area and they certainly don't feel they have been personally disrespected if somebody cuts in line and believe it is their duty to humiliate them or do they take personal offense to letting somebody try to squeeze pass and decide they simply will use their strength (if they are bigger) to refuse to allow the person room to pass. They certainly do take losing face much differently.

To me, it's not about the humiliation game...it's more the practical side, i.e. having to wait longer for something that I have respectfully waited for, by someone who has not waited for it or demonstrated respect. Like I said, if it is possible to skip to the front of the line when one desires, why do we even have lines at all? What is their point?

Also, I am 35 and well traveled - have lived or worked around the world.

[BigRick]

I am tall and sturdy most of the time I just don't let them move me and use my size back without being aggressive. Want to walk into me then you get a lesson in Physics 124kg vs 60kg <For some odd reason they always walk into my shoulder> Trust me they understand you just have to let them know you don't care because you understand they are the ones with a poor upbringing. But on a side note I also live in Thailand and I see Europeans especially Russians pulling this crap all the time. My favorite is the Thai idiots who stand in front of the escalator and talk I just walk through them and laugh. I had to give some Indian woman the stiff arm for knocking into my girlfriend like she was not there. People react when they realize they get a taste of their own medicine. Most of the Thais in my neighborhood do not tolerate line cutting especially if its me because I am always so nice and friendly. In fact nothing puts a smile on my face like someone pulling a "Invisible farang" routine and the stall owner pulling the "invisible Thai" routine. The look on their face is priceless like "what do you mean he was in line but I am Thai!" It pays to be nice where you live because I found the Thais where I live will go out of their way to reciprocate a smile and a kind gesture. As far as the grocery store goes I take no prisoners. They cut I just move their stuff into a basket if the cashier does nothing then I touch everything then leave it in a basket on the ground in front of the line. They take losing face so much different than us.

Yea, they certainly do (regarding losing face) because they don't make up issues in their own mind where they need to feel the need to get violent because somebody bumped their girlfriend in a crowded or high traffic area and they certainly don't feel they have been personally disrespected if somebody cuts in line and believe it is their duty to humiliate them or do they take personal offense to letting somebody try to squeeze pass and decide they simply will use their strength (if they are bigger) to refuse to allow the person room to pass. They certainly do take losing face much differently.

Sounds like you missed the point if someone wants to be rude or impolite it should not be reward with being a wussy. Did I say I walk into people? No but if they walk into me that is their fault<When they willfully do it of course>. The Indian lady gave my girlfriend a pretty good rude shove and all things considered she is Thai and it is her country and some of these people lack manners big time. But again I am guessing you are one of those "I live in gumdrop land Thailand and let people walk all over me" types Do you own a farm in Issen have an extended Thai family? I don't know about you but if someone willfully steps in front of you at check out its a sign of "go &lt;deleted&gt; yourself" mentality<I actually have no issue with inviting someone in front of me if they have a lot less items> Maybe you come from some place where they do not have lines but there is a reason we have social order. As I mentioned before I get along with Thai people some very nice people here. But on the flip side of that there are some real dbags farang included. We are guests here not inferior human beings and simple respect must be given and taken. Common decency is not a rule but lack of it is a crime.

Edited February 22, 2012 by BigRick

[Pseudolus]

I am tall and sturdy most of the time I just don't let them move me and use my size back without being aggressive. Want to walk into me then you get a lesson in Physics 124kg vs 60kg <For some odd reason they always walk into my shoulder> Trust me they understand you just have to let them know you don't care because you understand they are the ones with a poor upbringing. But on a side note I also live in Thailand and I see Europeans especially Russians pulling this crap all the time. My favorite is the Thai idiots who stand in front of the escalator and talk I just walk through them and laugh. I had to give some Indian woman the stiff arm for knocking into my girlfriend like she was not there. People react when they realize they get a taste of their own medicine. Most of the Thais in my neighborhood do not tolerate line cutting especially if its me because I am always so nice and friendly. In fact nothing puts a smile on my face like someone pulling a "Invisible farang" routine and the stall owner pulling the "invisible Thai" routine. The look on their face is priceless like "what do you mean he was in line but I am Thai!" It pays to be nice where you live because I found the Thais where I live will go out of their way to reciprocate a smile and a kind gesture. As far as the grocery store goes I take no prisoners. They cut I just move their stuff into a basket if the cashier does nothing then I touch everything then leave it in a basket on the ground in front of the line. They take losing face so much different than us.

Yea, they certainly do (regarding losing face) because they don't make up issues in their own mind where they need to feel the need to get violent because somebody bumped their girlfriend in a crowded or high traffic area and they certainly don't feel they have been personally disrespected if somebody cuts in line and believe it is their duty to humiliate them or do they take personal offense to letting somebody try to squeeze pass and decide they simply will use their strength (if they are bigger) to refuse to allow the person room to pass. They certainly do take losing face much differently.

If the first you know about their attempts to pass is a strong arm push from them, what do you expect as a return? Maybe some are prepared to excuse these, albeit minor. assaults as "that's just the way they are" but I did not leave my dignity at immigration.

[Javabear]

My wife and I were on the BTS platform one morning and there were only 3 other people on the platform. They happened to be a farang family with the son being about 15 or 16. The husband and wife were sitting on a bench and as my wife and I were about to pass by (3-4 meters away) the boy got up , walked in front of us, and stopped dead in his tracks. There were only the 5 of us on the platform so there was plenty of room. My wife and I walked around him and then I stopped and stood directly in front of him with my back to him just as he did me. I went back on my way after about 10 seconds. I heard the boy's father laugh and tell him what had just happened and that he needs to pay better attention the next time.

[Nisa]

I am tall and sturdy most of the time I just don't let them move me and use my size back without being aggressive. Want to walk into me then you get a lesson in Physics 124kg vs 60kg <For some odd reason they always walk into my shoulder> Trust me they understand you just have to let them know you don't care because you understand they are the ones with a poor upbringing. But on a side note I also live in Thailand and I see Europeans especially Russians pulling this crap all the time. My favorite is the Thai idiots who stand in front of the escalator and talk I just walk through them and laugh. I had to give some Indian woman the stiff arm for knocking into my girlfriend like she was not there. People react when they realize they get a taste of their own medicine. Most of the Thais in my neighborhood do not tolerate line cutting especially if its me because I am always so nice and friendly. In fact nothing puts a smile on my face like someone pulling a "Invisible farang" routine and the stall owner pulling the "invisible Thai" routine. The look on their face is priceless like "what do you mean he was in line but I am Thai!" It pays to be nice where you live because I found the Thais where I live will go out of their way to reciprocate a smile and a kind gesture. As far as the grocery store goes I take no prisoners. They cut I just move their stuff into a basket if the cashier does nothing then I touch everything then leave it in a basket on the ground in front of the line. They take losing face so much different than us.

Yea, they certainly do (regarding losing face) because they don't make up issues in their own mind where they need to feel the need to get violent because somebody bumped their girlfriend in a crowded or high traffic area and they certainly don't feel they have been personally disrespected if somebody cuts in line and believe it is their duty to humiliate them or do they take personal offense to letting somebody try to squeeze pass and decide they simply will use their strength (if they are bigger) to refuse to allow the person room to pass. They certainly do take losing face much differently.

If the first you know about their attempts to pass is a strong arm push from them, what do you expect as a return? Maybe some are prepared to excuse these, albeit minor. assaults as "that's just the way they are" but I did not leave my dignity at immigration.

I think you are a bit paranoid and WAY overly insecure if you believe it is the least bit common for a Thai person to give somebody a strong arm push that is more than twice the weight of them (as mentioned in the above example). And guess what if YOU CHOOSE to believe this is the culture here then get the hell out of the country if you can't deal with it. You are delusional if you think it is appropriate for you to enforce your customs onto others in their country.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Nisa

[BigRick]

I think most of the time they are not paying attention. One thing I have noticed about Thailand and I don't mean it in a bad way but you see a lot of the younger people oblivious to whats going around them. To many Ipads,phones,music players. I would agree with the above poster by and large Thai people are really nice especially if you know them. The population in Bkk is different because it is a large and crowded city. You try walking down Sukumvit in the evening you have to fight through the stalls vendors and shoppers. I do not expect people to have manners but a little courtesy and gentlemanship goes a long way. The elevator button is classic and I have seen this a couple times from both Thais and farangs. I think the Thais do it as a form of individual protest in a hive mentality society as farang we come from societies that stress the individual vs Asia where you have so many people you need to stress cooperation and compliance. To me it seems like a no brainer to have my money out if I go to a movie because you choose the seat so to make it easier to be ready. I have seen the exact opposite a lot of times where the person will spend 3 minutes looking for the seat another 3 minutes placating the girlfriend then another to actually figure out it costs money.

In reply I must have missed the "Cutting in line and being rude" section in the Thai culture handbook. I never realized not cutting in line and showing manners was against Thai custom thank you ohhh great Thai culture guru where can I buy your book on Amazon? Is it just me or does anyone else hate asshats who use the argument that if you make up an invalid point about said culture that you do not agree with you should leave the country? Sounds like an angry pensioner type most likely retired internet millionaire keeping on the down low being kinyo because it is the CIA SAS way.

Edited February 22, 2012 by BigRick

[Nisa]

Never once I have ever encountered a Thai person try to block my way from getting through on the subway or skytrain which I ride and have rode very frequently. Many a time I am pushed a bit as somebody tries to get by me (and I simply give them room) and many a time have I pushed people a bit with my body as I try to get through (and then they simply give me room). Very simple culture that doesn't get all worked up about personal space and don't use a lot of excess communications to express themselves.

I have witnessed people cutting in line more than I do in the west but it certainly is not an epidemic. Often if the cashier doesn't say something or the person at the front of the line then I simply ignore it and don't shorten my life with stress over what amounts to a tiny and insignificant delay. If I am at the front of the line, I will tap the person on the shoulder and laugh and smile as I discreetly point to the line behind me and I've never had any other reaction than seeing the person feel embarrassed as they move to the back of the line. Sometime I don't say anything because the brief extra time I spent in line is less of a problem for me than embarrassing somebody. In those case I usually turn to the person behind me and we both smile at each other in a way to acknowledge we feel bad for the person cutting inline because they are the ones with the issue being it their being in their own world or simply being inconsiderate.

Walking down a busy sidewalk is no different, expect some contact and if you can't deal with it then don't walk or come to Thailand or most Asian cities. You can call it rude or whatever you want but it is their culture and country and not yours (obviously). It is up to you to adapt and again, unless delusional, it makes absolutely no sense, unless you have issues, to take any of this personally or feel a need to strong arm people as if somehow the women's shoulder you hurt is going to spread the word about farangs being mentally unstable and to keep a distance.

You can make all the paranoid delusional comments you want about how these generally small people are trying to rough you up but any reasonable person knows that is not the case, it just doesn't even cross their mind that somebody would think such a thing simply because they are trying to get by ... and why would they, they certainly don't have such negative thoughts when it happens to them.

[AZBill]

This just appears to be the Asian way. I've seen it all througout Asia. The idea of personal space simply doesn't exist over here in the way it does in the west. I find that using my western girth in the same manner backs them off. Complaining is a waste of time.

[Nisa]

To me it seems like a no brainer to have my money out if I go to a movie because you choose the seat so to make it easier to be ready. I have seen the exact opposite a lot of times where the person will spend 3 minutes looking for the seat another 3 minutes placating the girlfriend then another to actually figure out it costs money.

To you it seems that way because you are not Thai and have not learned that in general Thais don't stress over little things and don't have a problem waiting or taking their time. It is not rude in this culture to not have your money ready when you get to the ticket booth and nor is rude to spend time there discussing seating or even changing your mind about a movie. What would be rude and seem strange here is to complain about it. I litterally have witnessed Thais become embarrassed to even be standing next to the farang in line who is making all sorts of gyrations to indicate their frustration as they complain loud enough for others to hear.

It is not just the movie lines either it is the often complaining farang who gets frustrated over things Thais don't and feels a need to complain and complain and talk about the ways things should be done here. Instead of believing folks are rude, stupid or doing something wrong ... folks should simply take a lesson from the Thais around them and remind themselves it is not their country or culture and they should try to blend in and learn.

Jai Yen Yen ... Mai Bpen Rai .. Mee Sa Nook ... you'll live longer, be happy and enjoy Thailand much more as well as fitting in better

[KunMatt]

It is just the Thai way

They think nothing of doing what you have mentioned

They think nothing of cutting in line

No you are wrong. They know its rude but its all about one-upsmanship. Same as the way they drive. If they can cut in front of you and get there first then they win these little games they are constantly playing.

I was stood in a queue in Big C two weeks ago, I was next to be served with half of my shopping already on the conveyor and then suddenly the cashier announced that she was closing and everyone should use the cashier directly next to us (same lane just one step to the right). Before I know whats happening the five people in the queue behind me all shift to the new cashier and I go from next to be served to 6th all in a second. I was just standing there expecting someone to have the common decency to do whats fair but everyone was just giving me their best Thai Soap opera face thinking "yes we beat this farang".

If I knew how to argue in Thai I wouldve pushed back in but just being abusive in Thai or English wasnt going to help anything so to the back of the queue I go plotting my future revenge in my head!

I have lived in China. People are even ruder in queues and on the road there. Probably the rudest most selfish nation Ive ever encountered.

[pumpum]

It is just the Thai way

They think nothing of doing what you have mentioned

They think nothing of cutting in line

No you are wrong. They know its rude but its all about one-upsmanship. Same as the way they drive. If they can cut in front of you and get there first then they win these little games they are constantly playing.

I was stood in a queue in Big C two weeks ago, I was next to be served with half of my shopping already on the conveyor and then suddenly the cashier announced that she was closing and everyone should use the cashier directly next to us (same lane just one step to the right). Before I know whats happening the five people in the queue behind me all shift to the new cashier and I go from next to be served to 6th all in a second. I was just standing there expecting someone to have the common decency to do whats fair but everyone was just giving me their best Thai Soap opera face thinking "yes we beat this farang".

If I knew how to argue in Thai I wouldve pushed back in but just being abusive in Thai or English wasnt going to help anything so to the back of the queue I go plotting my future revenge in my head!

I have lived in China. People are even ruder in queues and on the road there. Probably the rudest most selfish nation Ive ever encountered.

Pathologically mannerless and selfish behavior is said to be an epidemic in China...remember the toddler that was hit by a car recently and lay dying on the side of the road while people just passed her by?

I recently boarded a flight to Sinapore from Bangkok and when I got to my assigned seat, there was a Chinese woman it it (there was a Chinese tour group on the plane). I smiled and pulled out my little ticket stub to show her that it was indeed my seat and she reacted by screaming at an inaudible pitch...I of course couldn't understand what she was saying but I got the feeling they were not nice words. The flight attendant, upon hearing the ruckus, came over and intervened. The lady reluctantly got out of my seat but brushed very closely against me along the way and it seemed a bit odd...a few minutes later when I was settled into my seat, another lady with the same group tapped me on my shoulder, smiled and handed me my passport. I am positive that, when pushing up against me, the original lady stole it from my pocket. Then, someone else from the group played a RADIO, a REGULAR RADIO, no an IPod or something personal, on a fairly high volume for the duration of the trip. Maybe the flight attendants just couldn't deal with anymore, but they said nothing. This experience did not make me enthusiastic about visiting China.

[pumpum]

"in it" not "it it"...she was in my assigned seat.

[pumpum]

Oh, this same group also insisted upon taking several photos of my partner and I with them. Was too in shock to object.

[rfukata]

Maybe it is a worldwide trend then, I don't know. Has never happened to me here with a farang though. The MRT thing is the best example I can provide...I have numerous times waited for a second or even third train and moved to a front place in the queue...but people quietly sneak ahead from behind me...quiet demeanor but sharp elbows

try catching the subway or train line in Tokyo during rush hour (there are two rush hour timezone, morning and after work);

if you ever were in this rush hour situation in Tokyo - total madness, you would consider the bangkok Mrt/bts rather nothing like riding on a

village train line.

[BigRick]

Oh, this same group also insisted upon taking several photos of my partner and I with them. Was too in shock to object.

Gweilo picture maybe? Or they wanted a couple extra copies to make sure they have the best picture for your new Chinese credit card. I feel for Chinese tourists they really get the shaft in these tour groups if you have ever seen the deluge of people who pour out the back of these giant tour boats in Maya beach you would know what I am talking about. They go to special restaurants and stay in special hotels god forbid they actually get exposed to Thai culture.

[benbear]

I like to play the bus game, if you want to play also please do. When your bus is coming down the road you have to try and guess where it will stop so you are level with the door,when it stops and when the doors open you must, must get on the bus first. Bpen sanuk mak

At the moment this years score is 51 : 23 ( 51 being a win )

Not bad hey ( could play the sky train game as well )

Edited February 22, 2012 by benbear

[KunMatt]

It is just the Thai way

They think nothing of doing what you have mentioned

They think nothing of cutting in line

No you are wrong. They know its rude but its all about one-upsmanship. Same as the way they drive. If they can cut in front of you and get there first then they win these little games they are constantly playing.

I was stood in a queue in Big C two weeks ago, I was next to be served with half of my shopping already on the conveyor and then suddenly the cashier announced that she was closing and everyone should use the cashier directly next to us (same lane just one step to the right). Before I know whats happening the five people in the queue behind me all shift to the new cashier and I go from next to be served to 6th all in a second. I was just standing there expecting someone to have the common decency to do whats fair but everyone was just giving me their best Thai Soap opera face thinking "yes we beat this farang".

If I knew how to argue in Thai I wouldve pushed back in but just being abusive in Thai or English wasnt going to help anything so to the back of the queue I go plotting my future revenge in my head!

I have lived in China. People are even ruder in queues and on the road there. Probably the rudest most selfish nation Ive ever encountered.

Pathologically mannerless and selfish behavior is said to be an epidemic in China...remember the toddler that was hit by a car recently and lay dying on the side of the road while people just passed her by?

Yeah I witnessed a similar thing first hand but not as horrific. I was leaving a nightclub and there was a teenage boy unconcious in the street at the doors of the club, many people were actually standing on him as they exited. It was closing time in a popular club so maybe 200 or 300 people actively ignored this casualty and wouldnt get involved. It still sticks in my mind that I was the only westerner there and I was the only person to help out - a shining example of the differences between us. If this happened in the uk everyone would try to aid him.

Everyone knew what was going on and was watching in their peripheral vision but everyone also ignored me when I was shouting for someone to call an ambulance. In the end of it all I ended up getting bashed by 10 taxi drivers for my troubles! Nice moral bunch the Chinese. No idea what happend to the teenage boy before or after the incident.

[Pseudolus]

I am tall and sturdy most of the time I just don't let them move me and use my size back without being aggressive. Want to walk into me then you get a lesson in Physics 124kg vs 60kg <For some odd reason they always walk into my shoulder> Trust me they understand you just have to let them know you don't care because you understand they are the ones with a poor upbringing. But on a side note I also live in Thailand and I see Europeans especially Russians pulling this crap all the time. My favorite is the Thai idiots who stand in front of the escalator and talk I just walk through them and laugh. I had to give some Indian woman the stiff arm for knocking into my girlfriend like she was not there. People react when they realize they get a taste of their own medicine. Most of the Thais in my neighborhood do not tolerate line cutting especially if its me because I am always so nice and friendly. In fact nothing puts a smile on my face like someone pulling a "Invisible farang" routine and the stall owner pulling the "invisible Thai" routine. The look on their face is priceless like "what do you mean he was in line but I am Thai!" It pays to be nice where you live because I found the Thais where I live will go out of their way to reciprocate a smile and a kind gesture. As far as the grocery store goes I take no prisoners. They cut I just move their stuff into a basket if the cashier does nothing then I touch everything then leave it in a basket on the ground in front of the line. They take losing face so much different than us.

Yea, they certainly do (regarding losing face) because they don't make up issues in their own mind where they need to feel the need to get violent because somebody bumped their girlfriend in a crowded or high traffic area and they certainly don't feel they have been personally disrespected if somebody cuts in line and believe it is their duty to humiliate them or do they take personal offense to letting somebody try to squeeze pass and decide they simply will use their strength (if they are bigger) to refuse to allow the person room to pass. They certainly do take losing face much differently.

If the first you know about their attempts to pass is a strong arm push from them, what do you expect as a return? Maybe some are prepared to excuse these, albeit minor. assaults as "that's just the way they are" but I did not leave my dignity at immigration.

I think you are a bit paranoid and WAY overly insecure if you believe it is the least bit common for a Thai person to give somebody a strong arm push that is more than twice the weight of them (as mentioned in the above example). And guess what if YOU CHOOSE to believe this is the culture here then get the hell out of the country if you can't deal with it. You are delusional if you think it is appropriate for you to enforce your customs onto others in their country.

Not paranoid at all. I am certainly not a fluffy apologist who makes excuses for others bad manners in any society or culture though.

The key point you are missing in your justification of all of this as well as the inaction of people putting up with it is that clearly, blatantly rude in Thai Culture (how do I know this? well, firstly in a queue of 100 people all happily standing in line, the exception is the cutter and therefore that is the person who is going against the culture, and there is being ill mannered and rude; secondly, I work along side about 30 Thai nationals, and on asking them just now in one of our down times, they all agreed it is very rude in Thai culture to do this kind of thing).

So, it is rude. They know it. They are doing it knowing they are being rude, and it is not just farangs that react to it.

A lot of the time on these forums people fall into, and therefore assume others fall into one of two camps. "I'm a farang, better than all Thais, hate lots about their country and it would be better living here without them being here as well, or at least knowing their place" or the equally abhorrent attitude of “I’m a guest here so I freely accept that I have no say in anything no matter how it impacts upon my personal life and I do not place any value on what I as an individual bring to the country itself”.

The problem with both of these stances is that it forgives a basic lack of tolerance from which ever camp they sit it and on most occasions over rides the person they actually are. I fit into neither camp. To quote the numerous drag queens who have mimed this, I am who I am and make no apologies for it. I’m not an elitist, but nor am I a simpering apologist.

[benbear]

I was waiting in a queue for an ATM 2 years ago and I am still in the queue

[Gone]

Culture shmalture. If they step in front of you push them out of the way hard. There is no Thai culture any more.

All this crap about "just remember you are a guest in their country" is all bullocks.

I show respect when respect is shown to me. Disrespect me i will disrespect you I don't care who's country it is.

Whoever talks about this is not your country and you should respect them if they butt in front of you has obviously only been in Thailand less then 1 year.

[Nisa]

Not paranoid at all. I am certainly not a fluffy apologist who makes excuses for others bad manners in any society or culture though.

The key point you are missing in your justification of all of this as well as the inaction of people putting up with it is that clearly, blatantly rude in Thai Culture (how do I know this? well, firstly in a queue of 100 people all happily standing in line, the exception is the cutter and therefore that is the person who is going against the culture, and there is being ill mannered and rude; secondly, I work along side about 30 Thai nationals, and on asking them just now in one of our down times, they all agreed it is very rude in Thai culture to do this kind of thing).

Actually manners, rudeness and what is considered acceptable behavior do vary in different societies. Understanding a culture, its people and what is and isn't acceptable behavior takes asking questions, observing and paying attention ... I don't believe anyone here, including myself, has indicated cutting in line is not rude.

Then again farting on an elevator full of people is also but sometimes it is simply an accident and/or the intention was not to upset anybody or a personal attack towards anyone. You also won't generally here an apology here is such a thing happened too and nobody would be offended by the lack of an apology because nobody is thinking that it was a personal attack and don't need somebody to apologize for most mistakes they make .. especially to strangers. That is the culture here, just as you will not hear a lot of thank you's but again, generally nobody is going to think anything of not hearing a Thank You except a farang.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

It is just the Thai way

They think nothing of doing what you have mentioned

They think nothing of cutting in line

No you are wrong. They know its rude but its all about one-upsmanship. Same as the way they drive. If they can cut in front of you and get there first then they win these little games they are constantly playing.

I was stood in a queue in Big C two weeks ago, I was next to be served with half of my shopping already on the conveyor and then suddenly the cashier announced that she was closing and everyone should use the cashier directly next to us (same lane just one step to the right). Before I know whats happening the five people in the queue behind me all shift to the new cashier and I go from next to be served to 6th all in a second. I was just standing there expecting someone to have the common decency to do whats fair but everyone was just giving me their best Thai Soap opera face thinking "yes we beat this farang".

If I knew how to argue in Thai I wouldve pushed back in but just being abusive in Thai or English wasnt going to help anything so to the back of the queue I go plotting my future revenge in my head!

I have lived in China. People are even ruder in queues and on the road there. Probably the rudest most selfish nation Ive ever encountered.

Pathologically mannerless and selfish behavior is said to be an epidemic in China...remember the toddler that was hit by a car recently and lay dying on the side of the road while people just passed her by?

Yeah I witnessed a similar thing first hand but not as horrific. I was leaving a nightclub and there was a teenage boy unconcious in the street at the doors of the club, many people were actually standing on him as they exited. It was closing time in a popular club so maybe 200 or 300 people actively ignored this casualty and wouldnt get involved. It still sticks in my mind that I was the only westerner there and I was the only person to help out - a shining example of the differences between us. If this happened in the uk everyone would try to aid him.

Everyone knew what was going on and was watching in their peripheral vision but everyone also ignored me when I was shouting for someone to call an ambulance. In the end of it all I ended up getting bashed by 10 taxi drivers for my troubles! Nice moral bunch the Chinese. No idea what happend to the teenage boy before or after the incident.

Maybe you missed it and the teenage boy cut in line previously and this was the end result and why nobody showed him any further respect as a fellow human.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Nisa

[ralphlsasser]

It will only happen if you allow it. I threw a ladys bread in the floor at Tesco one time because she jumped in line ahead of me. I told her 3 times, "the line starts behing me" and pointed. She looked and stayed, so I threw her bread in the floor. The pushing and shoving is jus life in a 3rd world country. If a person jumps line in front of you, you do the same to them.

[ralphlsasser]

This has also happened to me at the supermarket, where someone tried to push in front of me and put their items on the conveyor belt when my items were already on there and beginning to be scanned by the checker.

Another version of this same phenomena occurs when someone walks straight into me instead of sharing a sidewalk space or when exiting a storefront or office whilst I am walking straight.

There are some people who seem oblivious to lines but there really isn't that many ... they are just hard to forget. There is nothing wrong with discreetly tapping the person on the shoulder and smiling to let them know what they just did and remind them you and others are there. In most circumstances they are just in their own world and will be a bit embarrassed over what they just did. What you shouldn't do is make a big deal out of it. The other Thais in line already view the line cutter as having a problem but you will be perceived as having the bigger problem if you let something minor like this get to you but again, nothing wrong with discreetly letting the person know with a smile ... think of trying to do it with the least way of letting the person know they made a mistake. If possible act like it was your fault for allowing them room to get ahead of you. Of course their are punks and druggies who you might be better off just ignoring regardless of what country you are.

On the MRT or BTS that is full, remember that people are trying to get more towards the middle of the train to allow more passengers to come on. This is proper procedure but I notice most farangs stand near the door or don't move towards the center of the trains. There is limited room to get around people and bumping is expected.

Walking on the sidewalk is a challenge because so many Thais tend to be in their own world and really don't pay attention to much beyond their own space. Most of the time you will see that people don't move aside until the very last minute. What makes things worse is their is no convention here in terms of what side of the side walk you should walk. The general rule of walk to the right or left depending on your countries traffic laws doesn't apply.

There are other factors involved too when entering/exiting the MRT, BTS, elevators or escalators. One is that a great many people did not grow up using these conveniences or fully understand the proper procedures or what may seem like common sense to us such as waiting for people to get off before boarding. Next time you are in the subway, stand and watch people go onto the escalator. Within a minute you will see some people come to a complete stop and wait to time their step before getting on as if they have little experience with such a device.

As for getting off the bus type situation you described, just get somebody's attention with a smile and eye contact and 9 times out of 10 they will let you in. You can get their attention by simply starting to move towards the isle. But there is nothing wrong with pushing your way into the line. Body contact is expected and taken as cues but there is absolutely no reason to shove. Remember too that they probably have people pushing them from the rear to keep moving forward.

Bottom line is don't take any of this personal as it is not an attack against you or is it anyone trying to show disrespect towards you. It is a combination of things that run from Thais not worrying about the little stuff to simply them being in their own world. You need not worry about bumping people or apologizing if you do unless you make eye contact and then a simple bow of the head and smile is more than enough because nobody is going to believe you bumped them on purpose. People expect you to do what is needed to take care of yourself in getting on and off public transportation.

Thais are some of the most generous people on the planet but some of these basic things that we believe are either common sense or basic politeness is not viewed the same by many. Thais don't generally express a lot of Thank You's or Excuse Me's as it is presumed nobody is trying to shove you but simply get around you. There is also an embarrassment/shy factor involved with this behavior too.

You're obviously a Thai defending a Thai's rude, arrogant behaviour. Smile to let them know they did something wrong? They know they did something wrong. Demand the fact that you were there first and they are not going to get in front of you. They have to wait like I do.

Edited February 22, 2012 by ralphlsasser

[necronx99]

The last time someone put something on the checkout in front of me I had the girl ring it up with my stuff and took it with me.

[Nisa]

You're obviously a Thai defending a Thai's rude, arrogant behaviour. Smile to let them know they did something wrong? They know they did something wrong. Demand the fact that you were there first and they are not going to get in front of you. They have to wait like I do.

You might want to consider what you believe is obvious is incorrect. Do you even know the very basics of what a smile represents in Thailand or even laughter in a situation like this? How about just being demanding? If you wish to remain and be viewed as a buffalo to the native people of Thailand then go right ahead with your confrontational ways ... as you go home feeling like a man, everyone else will see you as a little boy who cannot control themselves.

[Nisa]

I threw a ladys bread in the floor at Tesco one time because she jumped in line ahead of me.

And your need to be the only person who felt the need to escalate this situation to this degree resulted in your saving a couple minutes in a line while making yourself look like a child. Strange because I would guess you don't have such violent reactions to having to wait a few minutes for other things or if somebody else is in front of you in a line. So, it sounds like you are somebody who cares about how people perceive you not wanting to be perceived as somebody who can be taken advantage of. Bottom line it really does sound like the reaction of a child in just about any modern culture.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

The last time someone put something on the checkout in front of me I had the girl ring it up with my stuff and took it with me.

[endure]

It will only happen if you allow it. I threw a ladys bread in the floor at Tesco one time because she jumped in line ahead of me. I told her 3 times, "the line starts behing me" and pointed. She looked and stayed, so I threw her bread in the floor. The pushing and shoving is jus life in a 3rd world country. If a person jumps line in front of you, you do the same to them.

There are people who shouldn't be allowed to step out of their own front door.

[Nisa]

By no means am I suggesting it is always easy to do the right thing or to respond in a manner that is the cultural norm here but the OP wanted to know the acceptable forms of response and I really don't think he meant "hopefully not land us in jail" response when he asked this. Nor do I think he wanted to hear stories of how men have justified being physically abusive towards small women in public.

And by the way Kudos to the OP for caring enough and being intelligent enough to seek out such information. I get the feeling he is going to be happy here and not end up having to hate Thais and/or most all things Thai or feel a need to constantly remind himself (and others) why he is superior to to Thais.

As for me, I certainly see many things I think are odd or even backwards here but having learned how to enjoy life, not stress or worry over the little things and or things I cannot (or really don't want) to control is a gift I owe to Thais. I can't get back the time I wasted in life judging, complaining and worrying over nonsense but it is a gift to be able to see this now and continue to improve myself and look to be happy as much as possible and enjoy life regardless of what situation I find myself.

I am grateful for this gift of enlightenment (for lack of a better term) and hope some or even one person was able to put down their defenses long enough to see the way they may be living, by allowing others to dictate their happiness and control their behavior, is neither a rewarding or fulfilling life.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Nisa