David48 Posted June 15, 2012 Author Share Posted June 15, 2012 Hi there IsaanAussie. Over the page I mentioned that the Fish Farm do add to the standard feed pellet given to the Fish. Like most things in Thailand they seek out low cost alternatives. So, the Thai GF's friend works as HR Manager for a Pet Food Company, big operation not far from the Farm. Think along the lines of stainless steel work benches, hair in nets, gloves on hands etc. Their largest company is the Mars Corporation ... yes, the humble Mars Bar. Pedigree pet food is a subsidiary of the Mars Corporation and production standards are high. Occasionally some product which does not meet the International standard is sold cheaply. The Farm buys and adds this product to the mix. We are not talking chemical contamination and the like. So, I'm thinking is their a local food manufacturer which has a waste product (non-saleable) suitable to be included in your mix to lower costs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsaanAussie Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 David, As we all know location here governs prices as does volumes etc.. Yes I have looked at many alternate products that I could buy but at "buyer beware" risk. Honestly, when I look at the whole thing the cost saving if there is one, isn't worth the extra effort. My plan is to replace the Normal stuff with equal to or better i can make myself and reduce cost that way, it will take time. Anyway, I spent some up close and personal time with the local supplier yesterday and have updated the farm gate selling prices that I would be offering for Pla Nin feed. For those interested, the price per kg is assuming a 20 or 30 kg bag. See attached update. Tilapia feed 2.pdf IA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray23 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 David, As we all know location here governs prices as does volumes etc.. Yes I have looked at many alternate products that I could buy but at "buyer beware" risk. Honestly, when I look at the whole thing the cost saving if there is one, isn't worth the extra effort. My plan is to replace the Normal stuff with equal to or better i can make myself and reduce cost that way, it will take time. Anyway, I spent some up close and personal time with the local supplier yesterday and have updated the farm gate selling prices that I would be offering for Pla Nin feed. For those interested, the price per kg is assuming a 20 or 30 kg bag. See attached update. Tilapia feed 2.pdf IA David Couldn't get it opem Where are you located? If it's cost effective I would be interested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniel Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 My wife and I were in the prawn/shrimp business here from 1996 thru about 2004. We supplied a number of shrimp farms in the Chonburi area with the brine shrimp that we imported from our supplier in the USA. Brine shrimp is what the small shrimp eat before they are sold to the people who have the larger ponds who then raise them to marketable size. Seems all the farms we dealt with were raising their shrimp for export and not the local market. It was a pretty profitable business but lots of problems as sometimes a farm would fail and we wouldn't get paid paid but this didn't happen to frequently. We would air freight the product in so this was expensive as well as the tax. But overall we made monkey so cant complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 ray23 ... thanks for asking, currently I'm located in my Study on the Gold Coast, Australia. The view about 10 mins from my home OH ... now I understand ... you wanted to know about IsaanAussie's location ... Spaniel, welcome to the topic ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzydom Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 ray23 ... thanks for asking, currently I'm located in my Study on the Gold Coast, Australia. The view about 10 mins from my home OH ... now I understand ... you wanted to know about IsaanAussie's location ... Spaniel, welcome to the topic ... Looks familiar David, I lived just over the back on Chevron Island Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted June 17, 2012 Author Share Posted June 17, 2012 ray23 ... thanks for asking, currently I'm located in my Study on the Gold Coast, Australia. The view about 10 mins from my home OH ... now I understand ... you wanted to know about IsaanAussie's location ... Spaniel, welcome to the topic ... Looks familiar David, I lived just over the back on Chevron Island It's a small world after all. I domicile at a port south of there ... (well north of Chevron Island actually) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsaanAussie Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 ray23 ... thanks for asking, currently I'm located in my Study on the Gold Coast, Australia. The view about 10 mins from my home OH ... now I understand ... you wanted to know about IsaanAussie's location ... Spaniel, welcome to the topic ... Wow that fish pond of yours is huge Dave! Mate it has waves on it! Puts my little puddle to shame. However I seem to have had more luck growing grass of the same <deleted> soil as you have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsaanAussie Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I have started a new crop of duckweed on the pond to see how high I can bump the protein levels. It seems promising as the fertilising water comes from the exit pits from the septic system on the pig sty. What makes that interesting is the probiotic mud balls that I use in the tanks. They break down the nitrogen into elemental amino acids and should be completely availble to the duckweed. If it works then I can replace the soy meal completely and gain a higher protein level whilst reducing the fibre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray23 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 My wife and I were in the prawn/shrimp business here from 1996 thru about 2004. We supplied a number of shrimp farms in the Chonburi area with the brine shrimp that we imported from our supplier in the USA. Brine shrimp is what the small shrimp eat before they are sold to the people who have the larger ponds who then raise them to marketable size. Seems all the farms we dealt with were raising their shrimp for export and not the local market. It was a pretty profitable business but lots of problems as sometimes a farm would fail and we wouldn't get paid paid but this didn't happen to frequently. We would air freight the product in so this was expensive as well as the tax. But overall we made monkey so cant complain. Got any idea where I might be able to find fresh water shrimp these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotham79 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I have a couple of questions about the feeds mentioned in the pfd above. Why is the energy dropped (2700 down to 2500) as the fish get older. I get dropping the protein, but if you want to fatten them why drop the energy? What are you using in you calculations for the protien content for rice polishings. I have seen a couple of posts way back where the figure of 10-12% protien content was used. A few years ago, I sent a sample of fine rice polishings (lum Ohn) out of the country to be tested and the report came back with 15.5 % crude protein and a crazy high fat content. If you haven't had a sample tested it may be worth while as it is one of the cheaper inputs. I wish you were closer as I would certainly buy the ones you have formulated so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsaanAussie Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) Ok a couple of answers. Firstly, Ray after we spoke I rang the formulation guy and asked why the protein level was higher for fingerlings than fry, but why did it cost less? Now, if anyone can give me a better answer, please do. What he said was it was due to the smaller size extruder plate and the higher pressure needed to form the pellet, this resulted in a nett protein loss. On the issue of reduce fat as well as protein, look at the reduction in the two expensive components, fish oil and fish meal, both decrease. One suggestion made to me was to use palm oil. That I want to check out because I recently found out that some pig feeds actually use vegetable protein instead of animal protein and it has an adverse effect on piglets. Dont know about fish. In any case purchased fish meal and oil is on the must reduce cost list as soon as possible, not just for fish but also my pigs. Last issue logistics cost. This is a big one but there are solutions, start by saying that if the ingredients can be farm produced or even value added raw materials then the cost savings would cover the usual per bag freight costs. I have a friend in pigs who buys feed direct from the factory and they ship it via their subcontractor to him for 10 baht a bag. It can be done. Roll it all into one guys, if the answer was easy or didnt involve a bit of extra work, then someone would have done it already. Edit: Forgot the rice bran question. I am using high grade bran which varies between 14 and 17% protein levels and I cannot remember the fat content but it is oil rich. Edited June 17, 2012 by IsaanAussie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsaanAussie Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 http://en.engormix.com/MA-aquaculture/articles/growth-performance-of-nile-tilapia-using-probiotics-t1711/p0.htm Anyone who has followed my pigs 101 posts will know that my latest "best" thing is probiotics. So I decided to check what the effect on Tilapia would be. If you have the time check out this link. How would you like to improve the FCR of your fish by 7% simply by including a probiotic in their feed? I was going to hold this back a while longer but I thought why? This is what it is all about. Now I know that what I am doing for the pigs has very valuable application to fish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray23 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 http://en.engormix.c...cs-t1711/p0.htm Anyone who has followed my pigs 101 posts will know that my latest "best" thing is probiotics. So I decided to check what the effect on Tilapia would be. If you have the time check out this link. How would you like to improve the FCR of your fish by 7% simply by including a probiotic in their feed? I was going to hold this back a while longer but I thought why? This is what it is all about. Now I know that what I am doing for the pigs has very valuable application to fish. Looks like your on to something there, the results looked good in the study. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaniel Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 My wife and I were in the prawn/shrimp business here from 1996 thru about 2004. We supplied a number of shrimp farms in the Chonburi area with the brine shrimp that we imported from our supplier in the USA. Brine shrimp is what the small shrimp eat before they are sold to the people who have the larger ponds who then raise them to marketable size. Seems all the farms we dealt with were raising their shrimp for export and not the local market. It was a pretty profitable business but lots of problems as sometimes a farm would fail and we wouldn't get paid paid but this didn't happen to frequently. We would air freight the product in so this was expensive as well as the tax. But overall we made monkey so cant complain. Got any idea where I might be able to find fresh water shrimp these days? Sorry, no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 While you guys are waiting for the rains to come ... how about some pleasant distractions. Seeing the joy of a boy who has just caught a fish or two ... The joy of fishing with your son or your dad ... memories anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsaanAussie Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Well yes, I have memories of fishing with my Dad when I was I kid. Dusk trying to catch garfish in the Mitchell River at the cliff in Eagle Point. Never got close to a gar as they were too busy eating the mossies that werent eating me. But get this, to stop the boys wingeing the old man made my brother and I don our sleeping bags with hoods laced up and fishing rod stuck out the neck hole. Arh we had float fishing zipped up that evening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronz28 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Yes, I remember the best fishing on a lake when the white bass were running. The water looked like it was boiling and we just followed it and pulled in all we wanted. From the banks, the best fishing was a place my uncle baited a hole with a burlap sack tied to a rope with something in it. Corn I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsaanAussie Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Yes, I remember the best fishing on a lake when the white bass were running. The water looked like it was boiling and we just followed it and pulled in all we wanted. From the banks, the best fishing was a place my uncle baited a hole with a burlap sack tied to a rope with something in it. Corn I think. If it was my uncle it would have been a dead cat. He used to claim that he only fired the shotgun at the sack so the cat could breathe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray23 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 May have located some shrimp. Dom, how are yuors doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonjake Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 hi boys, just a little pic of me and my son, im so pleased with him that he like to be outside fishing instead of sat in front of a computer like so many others, jake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 ^^ Mate ... nice photos. Where were they taken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonjake Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 now then, its a lake in hiblestow near brig in england, my lad loves it there, mind he like fishing anywere,lol, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsquared Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Many Thanks David48 for directing me here.....just read your thread from start to here, and must say you and FarmGirl have done a fantastic job. Such a pleasure to see some interesting posts as opposed to the General forum (no need for me to say anymore on that). Will definitely be a regular here. One question I notice nobody has mentioned (just repeating from PM for others to see), of all the prawns I've seen for sale in LOS I have not seen them pre-cooked as we can get in Aussie. I have bought prawns imported from Thailand in Oz and they are delicious, yet cannot find the same product here. They either B-B-Q them or add to stir fry or tom yum......or my wife's favourite....raw with a lime/garlic dressing, Yummmmm, but must be fresh. Yet nowhere pre-cooked fresh just when they are caught. Any ideas? Cheers..........could fancy a kilo of prawns now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonjake Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 hi mate, i think the mentality is that the thai people like to see them alive, i know my wife does, just my thoughts jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted July 1, 2012 Author Share Posted July 1, 2012 Yet nowhere pre-cooked fresh just when they are caught. Any ideas? Thanks for dropping by Rsquared ... it's a bit friendlier and relaxed in the Farming Forum (just don't mention the price of a Rai) and the egos almost no-existent here. I don't have a direct answer to your question, but will ask the Thai Farm Family at the first opportunity. What pigeonjake offers above may be close to the truth. There is a premium associated with freshness ... or viewed otherwise ... a penalty if not fresh. For example, during a recent Prawn harvest, there was a drop in the oxygen levels and, in the morning, half of the night's catch were dead. Still able to be sold ... but at half the price and probably on the assumption that the recently dead Prawns were from a known supplier. When I have more information I will post. Others have thoughts on this question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tchooptip Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Most thanks David for this illustrated encyclopaedic (very interesting) thread 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray23 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Yet nowhere pre-cooked fresh just when they are caught. Any ideas? Thanks for dropping by Rsquared ... it's a bit friendlier and relaxed in the Farming Forum (just don't mention the price of a Rai) and the egos almost no-existent here. I don't have a direct answer to your question, but will ask the Thai Farm Family at the first opportunity. What pigeonjake offers above may be close to the truth. There is a premium associated with freshness ... or viewed otherwise ... a penalty if not fresh. For example, during a recent Prawn harvest, there was a drop in the oxygen levels and, in the morning, half of the night's catch were dead. Still able to be sold ... but at half the price and probably on the assumption that the recently dead Prawns were from a known supplier. When I have more information I will post. Others have thoughts on this question? Possibly precooked for shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Most thanks David for this illustrated encyclopaedic (very interesting) thread wholeheartedly seconded! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 Updated Information ... This Thread is about how the Thai people usually run a Fish and Shrimp Farm. This methodology consists of an external feed cycle where the operator feeds the Fish with a commercial pelletised Fish Feed. But this is not the only method. One of the long standing members and strong contributor to this Forum ozzydom (OD) also has a Fish Farm / Operation farming the pla nin or Nile Tilapia, same as this Farm does. OD adopts a style closer to what the Fish would naturally feed on in their environment. So, I warmly encourage you to wander over and have a read of his methodology. Setting Up Ponds For Farming Pla Nin (clickable link) Plus ... it's not War and Peace like this tread and an entertaining and informative 10 or 15 min read ... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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