Thai 'Yellow Shirt' Founder Sondhi Limthongkul Jailed For 20 Years

[Reasonableman]

Round and round we go, claim and counterclaim. Move on, use your eyes, use your brain, and look at what is happening now, with an eye and a heart for a better future for the whole country, FGS. Look how far tit-for-tat has advanced the Palestine-Israel issue.

I don't really think he will serve even one month in jail but anyway it's a really great news

Why is it such a great deal when the Government states that it is seeking reconciliation? Presumably Jurgen wants revenge as are those praising this sentencing without any knowledge of the facts or the politics behind it. For my part I have no idea whether Sondhi is guilty or innocent of this charge ..... what I do know is that he has been very vocal in his opposition to the Thaksin regimes (both present and past) and that makes me suspicious. However, I do not know if the judiciary is independent or not. What I see is that the judiciary is praised when it comes down on the people you oppose and vilified when it convicts those you support. <snip

pffft yeah right, if someone made those points about thaksin you'd be straight down their throats along with most of the forum...

you don't know all the facts behind what charges you vilify thaksin for either... and i mean facts, indisputable facts.

does it not make you very suspicous about the thaksin charges that came about, being a man who was also very vocal in his opposition or dissaproval of certain figures???

and do you know if the judiciary was independent or not during thaksin's similar time?

you're very open to question the charges and the circumstances surrounding sondhi but methinks you're not in the slightest bit open regarding the same for thaksin.

and then you have the audacity to say to the poster :

"we don't need bias here because its too transparent and not at all helpful"

yes, the kettle is black.

[Ricardo]

In comparison Taksin got off very lightly 2 yr sentance and 20 yrs for Sondhi is a bit too much for this crime I would say.........

but this is Thailand and anything is possible.....

It's not yet possible to make a fair comparison, since most of the cases against the fugitive self-exiled former-PM have yet to be heard or even started, due to his not being available to hear the initial-charges read-out in-court.

[jayboy]

It's not yet possible to make a fair comparison, since most of the cases against the fugitive self-exiled former-PM have yet to be heard or even started, due to his not being available to hear the initial-charges read-out in-court.

Any evidence of what these cases are? They would need to be at least partially prepared well before charges were made in court (so Thaksin's absence is irrelevant).

Or have you just made it up or simply wished it was so?

And don't bother to copme back with a charge of terrorism for paying the red mob to burn down Bangkok or similar.Whatever the truth of this and similar charges it has never been pursued and will never come to trial.Just fantasy.

[Reasonableman]

It's not yet possible to make a fair comparison, since most of the cases against the fugitive self-exiled former-PM have yet to be heard or even started, due to his not being available to hear the initial-charges read-out in-court.

Any evidence of what these cases are? They would need to be at least partially prepared well before charges were made in court (so Thaksin's absence is irrelevant).

Or have you just made it up or simply wished it was so?

And don't bother to copme back with a charge of terrorism for paying the red mob to burn down Bangkok or similar.Whatever the truth of this and similar charges it has never been pursued and will never come to trial.Just fantasy.

Interesting theory. Why do you think that is so?

[Colin Yai]

The guy is a fool, he has been challenging fate for a long time, like many elite Thais he thought untouchable.

It would appear at this moment in time that Thaksin is "untouchable" too , and moves are being made in smoke filled rooms that will make this permanent when eventually he lands on Thai soil again to a hero's welcome by his well "sugared" supporters

[rixalex]

Any evidence of what these cases are? They would need to be at least partially prepared well before charges were made in court (so Thaksin's absence is irrelevant).

Taken from a recent thread on outstanding cases against Thaksin, here is a list of what the cases involve.

As to your assertion about these cases not being well prepared and Thaksin's absence being irrelevant, well, the level of investigation is hard to gauge from an outsiders perspective, and i don't think the relevant bodies are inclined to make statements revealing how much evidence has been compiled and how much is ready to be presented in court. We can speculate that the cases are hollow, as easily as we can speculate that they are water-tight. The affect of Thaksin being absent i don't think however is a matter of speculation. All sources i have read suggest that until he returns to the country, the cases remain inactive. I guess they concentrate their efforts and energies on cases that are able to proceed. I would therefore say that Thaksin's absence is highly relevant.

However, many cases against Thaksin remain either in court or under investigation by the National Anti-Corruption Commission.

THEY INCLUDE:

- Illegal issue of two- and three-digit lotteries

The Supreme Court's Criminal Division for political office holders has suspended the case, as former premier Thaksin Shinawatra is a fugitive. In 2009, former finance minister Warathep Ratanakorn, former permanent secretary of finance Somjainuk Engtrakul and former Government Lottery Office director Chaiwat Phasokphakdee were sentenced to two years' jail each, but were placed on two years probation. Other suspects, including some then-cabinet members, were found innocent.

- Abuse of power in approving an Exim Bank loan to Burma

Thaksin was alleged to have abused his power as the loan could benefit his family's business, Shin Corp. The Supreme Court's Criminal Division for political office holders has suspended the case because Thaksin is a fugitive.

- Illegal changing of telecommunication concession fees into excise tax

The change allegedly benefited Shin Corp and caused a Bt66-billion loss to the country.

The National Anti-Corruption Commission and the attorney-general are working together on the case.

- Case of terrorism against Thaksin

The Department of Special Investigation submitted the case linking Thaksin to red shirts charged with terrorism related to last year's political turmoil. The case is now before the Criminal Court.

- Malfeasance related to the CTX 9000 bomb scanner scandal

The National Anti-Corruption Commission is investigating the malfeasance case against Thaksin and some of his cabinet members involving alleged corruption in the devices for Suvarnabhumi Airport.

- Malfeasance by allowing a Krung Thai Bank loan approved for a private company

The Assets Examination Committee indicted Thaksin for alleged illegal approval of the bank's Bt9-billion loan to Krisda Mahanakorn while it was a non-performing loan. Thaksin's son Panthongtae was also indicted for accepting dirty money. The case is still with the National Anti-Corruption Commission.

While Thaksin is considered a fugitive from a two-year jail sentence in 2008 - relating to Pojaman's Ratchadaphisek land purchase, it remains to be seen how the remaining cases can proceed while Yingluck is head of the government.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/495044-the-state-of-the-cases-against-thaksin/

Edited March 1, 2012 by rixalex

[CalgaryII]

Thai 'yellow shirt' founder jailed for 20 years, #1^

Well, not exactly.

Out on baIL, I understand, and I see no "ball & chain and brown coveralls" photo of this terrorist

".........because he quoted from the speech of a hardcore Red Shirt"

Bit of an agenized put-down.

Committed to ones political beliefs in the case of red Shirts, is often referred to as "hardcore"

All to serve the agenda of characterizing them as anarchic, instead of having legitimate political standing.

A political standing to the degree that they are the Government, and those denigrating them are are not.

Which in turn serves the larger agenda of depriving them of political equality by those who contemptuously suffer from misplaced political self-importance. This attitude in turn has effectivelly sidelined them from electoral success.

As it should be.

Edited March 1, 2012 by CalgaryII

[OZEMADE]

He should have been given life for the Treasonous and Terrorist activities against Thailand at the airport. He was the leader.

Regarding the airport occupations, there are charges that should be brought, not least of all for the leader, but not treason or terrorism.

I tend to dissagree, as the leader he was responsable for the people that took over the Control Tower at the International Airport, I repeat International. He was in charge of the people that murdered another man and dumped him in a bin at the International Airport. He was in charge when his followers slashed the tyres of police, military and security cars and damaged these vehicles to make a barracade to stop Police and Military getting into the International Airport. He was solely responsable for leading the people into the terminal and having a sit in and when finished, wrecked the place. It cost millions to repair. yes I believe these are Treasonous and Terrorist activities against Thailand.

[CalgaryII]

rixalex, #132^

"You would make a good case study for anyone researching the power over mind that sustained exposure to propaganda can have"

That thought continually crosses my mind as well, when talking to "indoctrinated" Thaksin haters.

Well put!

Edited March 1, 2012 by CalgaryII

[lannarebirth]

It's not yet possible to make a fair comparison, since most of the cases against the fugitive self-exiled former-PM have yet to be heard or even started, due to his not being available to hear the initial-charges read-out in-court.

Any evidence of what these cases are? They would need to be at least partially prepared well before charges were made in court (so Thaksin's absence is irrelevant).

Or have you just made it up or simply wished it was so?

And don't bother to copme back with a charge of terrorism for paying the red mob to burn down Bangkok or similar.Whatever the truth of this and similar charges it has never been pursued and will never come to trial.Just fantasy.

Are you joking? I think you are. You'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind, maybe even retarded not to have seen the list of charges pending here against Thaksin. Here's a hint. Policy corruption with resect to laws changed to facilitate sale of of Shin Corp just prior to said sale:

http://www.economist.com/node/5444898

I'm thinking maybe that what you call an "elite" university, that you claim to be from isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Edited March 1, 2012 by lannarebirth

[CalgaryII]

He should have been given life for the Treasonous and Terrorist activities against Thailand at the airport. He was the leader.

Regarding the airport occupations, there are charges that should be brought, not least of all for the leader, but not treason or terrorism.

I tend to dissagree, as the leader he was responsable for the people that took over the Control Tower at the International Airport, I repeat International. He was in charge of the people that murdered another man and dumped him in a bin at the International Airport. He was in charge when his followers slashed the tyres of police, military and security cars and damaged these vehicles to make a barracade to stop Police and Military getting into the International Airport. He was solely responsable for leading the people into the terminal and having a sit in and when finished, wrecked the place. It cost millions to repair. yes I believe these are Treasonous and Terrorist activities against Thailand.

I agree to all of the above, except for the "solely responsible" part.

One person was incapable of that.

He got his audacity from somewhere.

[CalgaryII]

It's not yet possible to make a fair comparison, since most of the cases against the fugitive self-exiled former-PM have yet to be heard or even started, due to his not being available to hear the initial-charges read-out in-court.

Any evidence of what these cases are? They would need to be at least partially prepared well before charges were made in court (so Thaksin's absence is irrelevant).

Or have you just made it up or simply wished it was so?

And don't bother to copme back with a charge of terrorism for paying the red mob to burn down Bangkok or similar.Whatever the truth of this and similar charges it has never been pursued and will never come to trial.Just fantasy.

Are you joking? I think you are. You'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind, maybe even retarded not to have seen the list of charges pending here against Thaksin. Here's a hint. Policy corruption with resect to laws changed to facilitate sale of of Shin Corp just prior to said sale:

http://www.economist.com/node/5444898

A chicken and egg sort of thing.

First electoral success, next ........................

Edited March 1, 2012 by CalgaryII

[rixalex]

Regarding the airport occupations, there are charges that should be brought, not least of all for the leader, but not treason or terrorism.

I tend to dissagree, as the leader he was responsable for the people that took over the Control Tower at the International Airport, I repeat International. He was in charge of the people that murdered another man and dumped him in a bin at the International Airport. He was in charge when his followers slashed the tyres of police, military and security cars and damaged these vehicles to make a barracade to stop Police and Military getting into the International Airport. He was solely responsable for leading the people into the terminal and having a sit in and when finished, wrecked the place. It cost millions to repair. yes I believe these are Treasonous and Terrorist activities against Thailand.

Well, i'm certainly not here to defend the man, so if there is a solid case for terrorism and treason charges, let's hope they are heard in court. Until then, it's little more than your opinion, and an opinion that was utterly predictable considering your documented red support.

I only hope that you aren't one of the ones who in the next breath, on the next thread, is arguing that none of what Thaksin and the red shirts have got up in the past few years has ever constituted terrorism or treason.

[rixalex]

rixalex, #132^

"You would make a good case study for anyone researching the power over mind that sustained exposure to propaganda can have"

That thought continually crosses my mind as well, when talking to "indoctrinated" Thaksin haters.

Well put!

The person who a few days ago returned at half past five in the morning from an all day, all night Thaksin love-fest, is calling others indoctrinated. OK.

[cdnvic]

Baseless accusation against one member removed. Stop attacking each other or your posting rights will be removed.

[whybother]

He should have been given life for the Treasonous and Terrorist activities against Thailand at the airport. He was the leader.

Regarding the airport occupations, there are charges that should be brought, not least of all for the leader, but not treason or terrorism.

I tend to dissagree, as the leader he was responsable for the people that took over the Control Tower at the International Airport, I repeat International. He was in charge of the people that murdered another man and dumped him in a bin at the International Airport. He was in charge when his followers slashed the tyres of police, military and security cars and damaged these vehicles to make a barracade to stop Police and Military getting into the International Airport. He was solely responsable for leading the people into the terminal and having a sit in and when finished, wrecked the place. It cost millions to repair. yes I believe these are Treasonous and Terrorist activities against Thailand.

"Millions to repair", yet it was open 2 days after the protest finished? IIRC, the only damage was one plate glass window.

[CalgaryII]

rixalex, #132^

"You would make a good case study for anyone researching the power over mind that sustained exposure to propaganda can have"

That thought continually crosses my mind as well, when talking to "indoctrinated" Thaksin haters.

Well put!

The person who a few days ago returned at half past five in the morning from an all day, all night Thaksin love-fest, is calling others indoctrinated. OK.

Thank you for remembering.

To get to your point however, it is a tired old oppositional mantra to deprive their political opposites of a political awareness context. Suggesting they lack a political context outside that of 'association'.

This continual underestimating is what has moved the Opposition to the political sidelines.

Edited March 1, 2012 by CalgaryII

[lannarebirth]

It's not yet possible to make a fair comparison, since most of the cases against the fugitive self-exiled former-PM have yet to be heard or even started, due to his not being available to hear the initial-charges read-out in-court.

Any evidence of what these cases are? They would need to be at least partially prepared well before charges were made in court (so Thaksin's absence is irrelevant).

Or have you just made it up or simply wished it was so?

And don't bother to copme back with a charge of terrorism for paying the red mob to burn down Bangkok or similar.Whatever the truth of this and similar charges it has never been pursued and will never come to trial.Just fantasy.

Are you joking? I think you are. You'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind, maybe even retarded not to have seen the list of charges pending here against Thaksin. Here's a hint. Policy corruption with resect to laws changed to facilitate sale of of Shin Corp just prior to said sale:

http://www.economist.com/node/5444898

A chicken and egg sort of thing.

First electoral success, next ........................

You know it took me years to understand this, but I do now. I just could never understood how anyone could support the murders, the graft, the policy corruption the continued debasement of this society. The enrichment of a single family at the expense of all their supporters. Iused to think the apologists didn't understand things or they were subject to the bla bla of their significant other who was subject to the bla bla of her uneducated parents or the local fortune teller. I don't feel that way anymore.

Now I've come to understand there are significant numbers of foreigners here that LOVE the idea of corruption and arbitray murders. It makes them feel vicariously stronger to associate themselves with thugs as they probably did in whichever country they came from. That was a big eye opener for me . I don't argue points with them anymore as now I have a very clear understanding of"where they're coming from".

[CalgaryII]

lannarebirth, #138^

"You know it took me years to understand this, but I do now. I just could never understood how anyone could support the murders, the graft, the policy corruption the continued debasement of this society. The enrichment of a single family at the expense of all their supporters. Iused to think the apologists didn't understand things or they were subject to the bla bla of their significant other who was subject to the bla bla of her uneducated parents or the local fortune teller. I don't feel that way anymore"

"Now I've come to understand there are significant numbers of foreigners here that LOVE the idea of corruption and arbitray murders. It makes them feel vicariously stronger to associate themselves with thugs as they probably did in whichever country they came from. That was a big eye opener for me . I don't argue points with them anymore as now I have a very clear understanding of"where they're coming from".

The same degree of wonderment overcomes me, when I see many foreigners who originate from countries with a deep Democratic tradition, accepting and even defending anti-democracy things such as coup's and their aftermath. This is akin to 'capital punishment' in the Democratic Political traditions which doesn't seem to occur to them when it happens in Thailand.

Then on top of that, to blithely follow the Coupist angelic characterizations of themselves, and anarchical representations of those Democracy activists who stood up to them.

[lannarebirth]

lannarebirth, #138^

"You know it took me years to understand this, but I do now. I just could never understood how anyone could support the murders, the graft, the policy corruption the continued debasement of this society. The enrichment of a single family at the expense of all their supporters. Iused to think the apologists didn't understand things or they were subject to the bla bla of their significant other who was subject to the bla bla of her uneducated parents or the local fortune teller. I don't feel that way anymore"

"Now I've come to understand there are significant numbers of foreigners here that LOVE the idea of corruption and arbitray murders. It makes them feel vicariously stronger to associate themselves with thugs as they probably did in whichever country they came from. That was a big eye opener for me . I don't argue points with them anymore as

now I have a very clear understanding of"where they're coming from".

The same degree of wonderment overcomes me, when I see many foreigners who originate from countries with a deep Democratic tradition, accepting and even defending anti-democracy things such as coup's and their aftermath. This is akin to 'capital punishment' in the Democratic Political traditions which doesn't seem to occur to them when it happens in Thailand.

Then on top of that, to blithely follow the Coupist angelic characterizations of themselves, and anarchical representations of those Democracy activists who stood up to them.

I know where you're coming from.

Edited March 1, 2012 by lannarebirth

[ginjag]

It's all a matter of owning up to what bad deeds you did, not being in denial, and being honest--whether it be yellow or red.   My feeling is--IF supporters of red brigade admitted to the wrongs of... instead of worming out excuses, sort of copying the government---- the less arguments would erupt among posters, and that applies to yellow followers.  Most hostility is there because of the denial.

This is somewhat extreme, but compare Abisit to Cameron---and Thaksin to Mugabe..

[CalgaryII]

It's all a matter of owning up to what bad deeds you did, not being in denial, and being honest--whether it be yellow or red. My feeling is--IF supporters of red brigade admitted to the wrongs of... instead of worming out excuses, sort of copying the government---- the less arguments would erupt among posters, and that applies to yellow followers. Most hostility is there because of the denial.

This is somewhat extreme, but compare Abisit to Cameron---and Thaksin to Mugabe..

Not sure of the above is an example, but I think so.

PADites have an across the Board modus operandi of expressing self-righteous indignation within a theme of political nuetrality, condemning political misdeeds as they see them, but always misdeeds of their political opposites.

For example, seemingly political above-the-fray comments referring to 'Red Brigades', and the 'Thaksin/Mugabe' connection.

As if nuetrality gives added heft to their opinions, faux as it is.

Having seen so much of it, perhaps I am sensitized more than others.

Edited March 1, 2012 by CalgaryII

[lannarebirth]

It's all a matter of owning up to what bad deeds you did, not being in denial, and being honest--whether it be yellow or red. My feeling is--IF supporters of red brigade admitted to the wrongs of... instead of worming out excuses, sort of copying the government---- the less arguments would erupt among posters, and that applies to yellow followers. Most hostility is there because of the denial.

This is somewhat extreme, but compare Abisit to Cameron---and Thaksin to Mugabe..

Not sure of the above is an example, but I think so.

PADites have an across the Board modus operandi of expressing self-righteous indignation within a theme of political nuetrality, condemning political misdeeds as they see them, but always misdeeds of their political opposites.

For example, seemingly political above-the-fray comments referring to 'Red Brigades', and the 'Thaksin/Mugabe' connection.

As if nuetrality gives added heft to their opinions, faux as it is.

Having seen so much of it, perhaps I am sensitized more than others.

Is it your assertion that one cannot be politically nuetral and at the same time find the actions of the Red Shirts and Thaksin contemptible? If so, you may want to examine your own biases. Not that you will. People like you never do, especially if that's how you earn your rice bowl.

Edited March 1, 2012 by lannarebirth

[CalgaryII]

iannarebirth, #143^

"Is it your assertion that one cannot be politically nuetral and at the same time find the actions of the Red Shirts and Thaksin contemptible?"

Yes, it is. That is my assertion.

Finding the actions of the Red Shirt Democracy Movement contemptable is not nuetral, to say the least.

Same as me finding the actions of the coupists contemptible is also not nuetral.

It is eminently easier to defend those who stood up to a coup and were vindicated by a subsequent election, than to justify the coupists and everything they did, until they were rightfully turfed the moment they exposed themselves to an election.

Edited March 1, 2012 by CalgaryII

[ginjag]

Honesty,  Yes this is a red brigade.

Yes there is a similarity in the P.Ms mentioned----and not forgetting the yellows are far from clean.My posts certainly imply I am not neutral, only because of the blatant lies and cover ups that are taking place. Before the election there were irregularities and always will be. I am sincere to the fact that if things were pretty well run, and the country looked like turning the corner (instead of the other way) I would support them, and compliment them.  Sorry this moment in time I would be dishonest to do that.

[Chang_paarp]

Will Sondhi be given special permission to leave the country?

Maybe to go to the Olympics? If he promises to return for some event.

[lannarebirth]

Let's frame that for posterity:

iannarebirth, #143^

"Is it your assertion that one cannot be politically nuetral and at the same time find the actions of the Red Shirts and Thaksin contemptible?"

Yes, it is. That is my assertion.

Finding the actions of the Red Shirt Democracy Movement contemptable is not nuetral, to say the least.

Same as me finding the actions of the coupists contemptible is also not nuetral.

It is eminently easier to defend those who stood up to a coup and were vindicated by a subsequent election, than to justify the coupists and everything they did, until they were rightfully turfed the moment they exposed themselves to an election.

Edited March 1, 2012 by lannarebirth

[animatic]

rixalex, #132^

"You would make a good case study for anyone researching the power over mind that sustained exposure to propaganda can have"

That thought continually crosses my mind as well, when talking to "indoctrinated" Thaksin haters.

Well put!

Kettle / teapot, black, black, pitch black as hell.

Your posts seep irony.

What's most ironic is that is apparently is not even understood.

[CalgaryII]

rixalex, #132^

"You would make a good case study for anyone researching the power over mind that sustained exposure to propaganda can have"

That thought continually crosses my mind as well, when talking to "indoctrinated" Thaksin haters.

Well put!

Kettle / teapot, black, black, pitch black as hell.

Your posts seep irony.

What's most ironic is that is apparently is not even understood.

Factual contrariness is often a mystery to those seldom exposed to it.

[CalgaryII]

Iannarebirth, #147^

"Let's frame that for posterity"

I will not be around for posterity.

My days are numbered.