PAD Supporters Hear Charges Over Airport Occupation

[Reasonableman]

To summarize, they both cost the nation dearly, including the tens of millions of Thais who were not involved at all.

[JurgenG]

The noose seems to be tightening on all those who seek/have sought to use non-democratic force or violence to achieve their political ends. The chickens eventually come home to roost.

Yes they've really tightened the noose in an extremely loose one sided way.The yellow shirts probably won't even have to post bail as the investigation hasn't been finished yet. Meanwhile hundreds of red shirt supporters were given no bail, incarcerated for 20 odd months, some of them having been found not guilty when they eventually got to court!

Yellow shirts didn't burn the airport down. Red shirts cost billions in damages, yet leaders get elected,Amazing Thailand!

Woah there - are you saying the occupation of the airports didn't cost anything????

Estimates to the court were that just for suvarnabhumi was 2 billion thb per day (10 days), plus cost to repair and re-certify security equipment. And all that was just Thai costs, did you factor in the cost to the airlines? Thai Airways estimates were that it cost them 500 million thb per day (another 5 billion), and general estimates of the cost of one plane being out of service in the airline industry is about 1 million USD per day (initially 88 planes stuck, 37 released later).

If I took the worst case there, 20 billion, plus another 26 billion in costs to the airlines (and this doesn't account for the cost of diverted flights).

46 billion thb. Perhaps less than the UDD troubles, but certainly significant.

Cheers

I think a number of people don't understand the signification of closing an airport.

The riot in downtown Bangkok was bad, but there is nothing uncommon here. In recent years there have been riot in London, Athene, Seattle just to mention a few places but I don't think the business community really care about it. These things happen, it's a fact of life, no big deal.

But to close an airport for one week it's a major disturbance usually associated to war. And the fact that the government was unable to do anything about it was a sign that things were completely out of control in Thailand. Then you add the comments of the foreign minister of the Abhisit administration and you will forgive foreign companies to start thinking Thailand is not the right place to set up shop.

It is absolutely outrageous for some people to blame Yingluck for the consequence of the flood, people are not stupid they understand that there are major events like earthquake, tsunami, flood ... that are beyond human control, and ignore the irresponsible attitude of the administration during and after the airport occupation.

The PAD made clear they want foreigners out of Thailand but it's pathetic for Abhisit to nominate a PAD official to the post of foreign minister and now to make a fool of himself (and of Thailand) by flying to Japan one week ahead of Yingluck under the pretense to reinsure foreign investors that it is safe to invest in Thailand. The fact that he is able to meet only retired politicians speaks volume of the high esteem Abhisit is held in Japan.

Just to finish on the subject, by refusing to charge his friends from the PAD for their action Abhisit was directly responsible for the rage of the reds and their feeling of double standard that led to the occupation of the Worldtrade centre. The way Yingluck handle the same situation is much smarter, one could add as expected.

Edited March 4, 2012 by JurgenG

[whybother]

I think a number of people don't understand the signification of closing an airport.

The riot in downtown Bangkok was bad, but there is nothing uncommon here. In recent years there have been riot in London, Athene, Seattle just to mention a few places but I don't think the business community really care about it. These things happen, it's a fact of life, no big deal.

But to close an airport for one week it's a major disturbance usually associated to war. And the fact that the government was unable to do anything about it was a sign that things were completely out of control in Thailand. Then you add the comments of the foreign minister of the Abhisit administration and you will forgive foreign companies to start thinking Thailand is not the right place to set up shop.

It is absolutely outrageous for some people to blame Yingluck for the consequence of the flood, people are not stupid they understand that there are major events like earthquake, tsunami, flood ... that are beyond human control, and ignore the irresponsible attitude of the administration during and after the airport occupation.

The PAD made clear they want foreigners out of Thailand but it's pathetic for Abhisit to nominate a PAD official to the post of foreign minister and now to make a fool of himself (and of Thailand) by flying to Japan one week ahead of Yingluck under the pretense to reinsure foreign investors that it is safe to invest in Thailand. The fact that he is able to meet only retired politicians speaks volume of the high esteem Abhisit is held in Japan.

Just to finish on the subject, by refusing to charge his friends from the PAD for their action Abhisit was directly responsible for the rage of the reds and their feeling of double standard that led to the occupation of the Worldtrade centre. The way Yingluck handle the same situation is much smarter, one could add as expected.

"The way Yingluck handle the same situation is much smarter, one could add as expected." - WHAT has Yingluck "handled"?

"refusing to charge his friends from the PAD for their action" - The PAD leaders were charged in 2009, while Abhisit was PM.

"But to close an airport for one week it's a major disturbance usually associated to war." - I'm sure baggage handlers would be interested to know that they are declaring war when they cause airports to effectively close.

The closure of the airport was a huge inconvenience for travelers (and an embarrassment for Thailand), but airports close or flights are cancelled all the time due to weather, strikes, volcano eruptions. Having the centre of the city closed down for 10 weeks, with innocent bystanders hit by grenades at train stations, does a lot more damage to longer term tourist and business psych than the airport being closed for a week.

The problem for Thailand hasn't just been the coup, or the airport closure, or the 2009 and 2010 riots, or the floods. It's the fact that they have all followed each other. Airport closures and disruptions happen in many countries. Riots happen in many countries. Floods happen in many countries. They don't often all happen in a single country.

[JAG]

I would suggest that there is an important difference in the international perspective with reference to the airport occupation and the 2010 street disturbances. The outside world saw an elected government whose armed forces refused to act when a protest group (PAD) took over Government House and the international airports - this led to the collapse of the elected government. By contrast they saw the same armed forces, 2 years later use significant force to disperse major street protests against the replacement government, a government which was comprehensively defeated when it was exposed to the electorate in elections one year later.

[whybother]

I would suggest that there is an important difference in the international perspective with reference to the airport occupation and the 2010 street disturbances. The outside world saw an elected government whose armed forces refused to act when a protest group (PAD) took over Government House and the international airports - this led to the collapse of the elected government. By contrast they saw the same armed forces, 2 years later use significant force to disperse major street protests against the replacement government, a government which was comprehensively defeated when it was exposed to the electorate in elections one year later.

I would suggest that the "outside world" had no idea of the who, why, what of anything that went on in Thailand.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

Edited March 4, 2012 by whybother

[JAG]

Oh they do, they just don't see it from your point of view!

[Colin Yai]

Let's not forget why the yellow shirts were protesting. Let's also not forget why the red shirts were protesting. Maybe the style could be considered too; a peaceful protest causing inconvenience vs mass violence and intimidation. But I guess it's irrelevant, T needs charges against his opposition as something to bargain with, and I'm sure he will have his wish as usual.

You make a very good point and I am sure it will not go unnoticed, certainly not in my case anyways,

[Ricardo]

Not in Thailand it isn't. Brad Adams Asia Director of the NY based Human Rights Watch recently said that the Red Shirts have been systematically denied bail and treated unfairly.

Yay for Justice, under a Red-Shirt/PTP Government !

Do you not feel there is a need for an organisation like Human Rights Watch? Could it be that they are an independant group with no agenda to pursue on behalf of the UDD?

Not the point, which I thought I was making, clearly there is a role for HRW.

The point is that, eight months onwards from the election, nobody within the government has stirred themselves, to accelerate the process of justice for those alleged UDD-supporters, who are still in jail. Even before the election, the main action to help their own people seemed to be laying red-roses outside the prison every week. What sort of support 'for their own' is this ?

But then they're only poor, so of little apparent account, to any politician, on any side.

[sparebox2]

Move on, there are enough problems ahead, without looking for sacrifices in the past...

Besides, PAD no longer have the mass.

[phiphidon]

Not in Thailand it isn't. Brad Adams Asia Director of the NY based Human Rights Watch recently said that the Red Shirts have been systematically denied bail and treated unfairly.

Yay for Justice, under a Red-Shirt/PTP Government !

Do you not feel there is a need for an organisation like Human Rights Watch? Could it be that they are an independant group with no agenda to pursue on behalf of the UDD?

Not the point, which I thought I was making, clearly there is a role for HRW.

The point is that, eight months onwards from the election, nobody within the government has stirred themselves, to accelerate the process of justice for those alleged UDD-supporters, who are still in jail. Even before the election, the main action to help their own people seemed to be laying red-roses outside the prison every week. What sort of support 'for their own' is this ?

But then they're only poor, so of little apparent account, to any politician, on any side.

You didn't take part in this debate, so you may have missed it but there are 7 pages of damned if you do, damned if you don't "discussions" here:

http://www.thaivisa...._justice%20fund

Edited March 5, 2012 by phiphidon

[tlansford]

- sniper -

Do you not feel there is a need for an organisation like Human Rights Watch? Could it be that they are an independant group with no agenda to pursue on behalf of the UDD?

There was no suggestion that HRW are biased. Recent criticism would be of the recent government, if the situation still exists, which hasn't tackled what would seem to be a priority issue - equal justice for those who helped them get elected.

But we know where their priorities lie.

On the sixth of February 2012 the Justice Ministry began filing of bail applications for about 60 red-shirt detainees with the special budget of 43.8 million baht provided by the Yingluck Shinawatra government for use as bail bonds.

No idea how that's progressing, but during his phone-in on the 25th k. Thaksin said he would try to help bail applications for his red shirt supporters still in prison.

Surely with soooo much effort there will be no red-shirts in jail awaiting trial. Maybe the pluche prison for political prisoners wouldn't be needed any more, or is that one specially build for the most visible of all, our dear fugitive criminal k. Thaksin S.

HRW 24/2/12

http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/02/24/thailand-courts-denying-bail-lese-majeste-cases

In response to recommendations by the Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand, the Justice Ministry’s Rights and Liberties Protection Department has begun using its budget from the “Justice Fund” to guarantee bail applications of those being held on lese majeste charges, as well as supporters of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship facing various charges in connection with political protests in 2010. The commission’s chairperson, Kanit Na Nakhon, has also publicly called for judges to treat lese majeste offenders more leniently. In February, though, the courts have rejected the first three bail requests under this effort.

[Ricardo]

You didn't take part in this debate, so you may have missed it but there are 7 pages of damned if you do, damned if you don't "discussions" here:

http://www.thaivisa...._justice%20fund

Many thanks, I was out-of-the-country, and had indeed missed that thread.

[OzMick]

HRW 24/2/12

http://www.hrw.org/n...e-majeste-cases

In response to recommendations by the Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand, the Justice Ministry’s Rights and Liberties Protection Department has begun using its budget from the “Justice Fund” to guarantee bail applications of those being held on lese majeste charges, as well as supporters of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship facing various charges in connection with political protests in 2010. The commission’s chairperson, Kanit Na Nakhon, has also publicly called for judges to treat lese majeste offenders more leniently. In February, though, the courts have rejected the first three bail requests under this effort.

"In February,..." which issome time after July, and nearly as long after Thaksin's visa to Japan was arranged. Priorities?

"Truth for Reconciliation Commission of Thailand, the Justice Ministry’s Rights and Liberties Protection Department, “Justice Fund”, United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship" - every day it sounds more like a modern version of "1984." Maybe Blair had a Thai mother.

[Siam Simon]

Let's not forget why the yellow shirts were protesting. Let's also not forget why the red shirts were protesting. Maybe the style could be considered too; a peaceful protest causing inconvenience vs mass violence and intimidation. But I guess it's irrelevant, T needs charges against his opposition as something to bargain with, and I'm sure he will have his wish as usual.

You make a very good point and I am sure it will not go unnoticed, certainly not in my case anyways,

It's a very poor comparison, one that is frequently made by PAD apologists and one that doesn't stand up to analysis: The Red Shirt protests were rowdy civil disobedience and bluster until the army tried to disperse them. Apart from some pretty unpleasant isolated incidents, the PAD protests were similarly peaceful until the botched police dispersal at Parliament, when large numbers of PAD rioted and attacked police lines with makeshift weapons such as ping pong bombs, stakes, pick-up trucks, etc. Following that debacle, the police refused to get involved in any more illegal protest dispersal. And we know that the army was tacitly supporting the PAD back then, so we never got to see how an army dispersal of them would have panned out (though we do know that a handful of PAD supporters were carrying guns and home-made bombs).