My Compost Pile Is Growing Trees!

[Attol]

Hi..

I wanted to make a compost pile, nothing serious mainly just not throw organic stuff in the trash. So i bought a basket from the guy on the street selling baskets and used that outside by back door. Worked well for a while and the basket never got full .. amazing how that worked. I looked and had lots of worms too. This is good from what I read.

I don't make food at home except for one or 2 times a week.

THen the basket stated com posting? and then i started getting a tree!!! I dont know though if it is one tree or 5? Then I looked and saw I also have 3 avocado trees growing!!! I tried many times before to sprout an avocado seed. The girt there is mixed wit concrete from the building ages ago as THais do.

It is sunny - shady a little bit of sun.

If I want to save the tress can I put in a large pot? Or better to put in the ground ? There is no nice dirt here.

I am in Phuket by the way.

I think it is mango tress coming because I eat a lot of mangos.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Attol

[Foreverford]

Hey where the tol are, what's happening? I can't believe peeps have left you strung out here without any response because you will kill or save the trees you have based on what they is bad boy. Avo's have a fiberous rooting system basically like maybe you woukld think of a lawn where the roots are extremely abundant but very small and shallow in the soil. the mango has a "tap" root which is a single main root almost copying what is growing above ground 15 inches of mango growing above ground it would be good to get at least that much depth in your "ball" of soil you are able to keep attached to the roots system. If you can leave one in the ground where it is and see what it does and transplant the other two where they can at least get partial sunlight and bunches of good rain or water for a while should give you a chance for success. Excessive shwading will definitely force a very tall weak high reaching specimen in either one.

Remember ALL dirt is "nice" dirt, you just have to learn how to understand it. treat it nice and it will be more than nice back to you. By composting you're geeting how to be nice, so right on and left off as some say. Mangoes can be extremely reactive with some people, me included, as the skins on the fruit contain the same type of toxins as North American poison oak and poison ivy. That said it can be a little difficult to correctly identify a mango seeding and an avocado. You could try the old look, touch, taste test with a leaf and compare it to mature specimens in your area but at theses trees early age shown opf your photos it appears that if you go a good shovelfull or more deep and put it in the best prepoared hole you can make and put whatever nice dirt you can muster up and water it in good and slow and deep and cover the earth with some old leaves and cr4eate a temporary shade structure for say 3-7 days I think either an avocado or a mango can make it at the stage yours are in now. forget pots let your dirt be free and it will be one less step to getting the trees on their way. Avo's would do fgood if you wanted to pot up one in reserve that the others don't make it. but with a mango probably a waste of time unless you have a very big container that you cvan use before transplanting the final time. Have fun with your compost as you can n0w see you don't have to have a basket or container to make compost aas a couple of chunks out of the earth and a wet hole is a great start to creating more compost. FFFFords FForever

[David006]

..don't have a compost heap per se... just put all our veggie waste in an old paint bucket out on the veranda ..when it's full or starts to stink dump it next to a tree or...

That said... always get various fruit trees growing beside the chosen tree or shrub.

Many times transplanted when very small and they just die. Larger ones tend to survive but stagnate because I just stick 'em in a hole and forget 'em.

Re mangoes, papaya etc etc...never ever been able to propagate from seeds...all the mango/papaya ,rambutan,betel, trees etc we have are the result of chucking the seed over a shoulder and a year or so later l and behold one finds a little tree someplace...just leave them in situe till they get big or a nuisance....

Only ever have had one transplanted Mango seedling survive my lazy black thumb....a continuous source of amusement for my dear ..wife....it (the tree) is now 3m tall after 4 years..the self seeders doing much the same....Read someplace they don't fruit if ya feed 'em too much....

[Attol]

Thanks!

[PoodMaiDai]

Life always finds a way.

I'm about to start my own compost pile. Curious, how bad are the ants?

[David006]

Life always finds a way.

I'm about to start my own compost pile. Curious, how bad are the ants?

The ants are really bad and naughty...lol..Not sure what the question relates too?

Sure there will be ants in your pile they probably help break down the veggie matter...I think ants are the reason a lot my attempts at propagation fail....guess the mushy mess of the compost in our buckets are not attractive to ants...full of little larvae maggoty wormy things...usually pick out a dozen or so and throw in our egg pot lotus/fishponds..mm yummy for the fish as don't usually feed 'em.(just little gold fishy type things).

The covered paint bucket veggie composting is very convenient and does not stink..also won't get washed away in the wet....

I guess if you wanted a big pile the way to go maybe use a perforated blue 40 gal drum and tun it/roll it every so often?

Never seen the Bunnings ( Ozzie hardware store) flat pack self assembly square type with lid and sliding doors at bottom..they would be great...guess you could build one using cement blocks ?

[necronx99]

Life always finds a way.

I'm about to start my own compost pile. Curious, how bad are the ants?

The ants are really bad and naughty...lol..Not sure what the question relates too?

Sure there will be ants in your pile they probably help break down the veggie matter...I think ants are the reason a lot my attempts at propagation fail....guess the mushy mess of the compost in our buckets are not attractive to ants...full of little larvae maggoty wormy things...usually pick out a dozen or so and throw in our egg pot lotus/fishponds..mm yummy for the fish as don't usually feed 'em.(just little gold fishy type things).

The covered paint bucket veggie composting is very convenient and does not stink..also won't get washed away in the wet....

I guess if you wanted a big pile the way to go maybe use a perforated blue 40 gal drum and tun it/roll it every so often?

Never seen the Bunnings ( Ozzie hardware store) flat pack self assembly square type with lid and sliding doors at bottom..they would be great...guess you could build one using cement blocks ?

Easier to use a small plastic water or bulk carry tank.

I've often wondered about the efficiency of those bunnings jobs as you can really mix or rotate what you put in there, it would all just be layers rotting down..

Edited April 23, 2012 by necronx99

[David006]

Life always finds a way.

I'm about to start my own compost pile. Curious, how bad are the ants?

The ants are really bad and naughty...lol..Not sure what the question relates too?

Sure there will be ants in your pile they probably help break down the veggie matter...I think ants are the reason a lot my attempts at propagation fail....guess the mushy mess of the compost in our buckets are not attractive to ants...full of little larvae maggoty wormy things...usually pick out a dozen or so and throw in our egg pot lotus/fishponds..mm yummy for the fish as don't usually feed 'em.(just little gold fishy type things).

The covered paint bucket veggie composting is very convenient and does not stink..also won't get washed away in the wet....

I guess if you wanted a big pile the way to go maybe use a perforated blue 40 gal drum and tun it/roll it every so often?

Never seen the Bunnings ( Ozzie hardware store) flat pack self assembly square type with lid and sliding doors at bottom..they would be great...guess you could build one using cement blocks ?

Easier to use a small plastic water or bulk carry tank.

I've often wondered about the efficiency of those bunnings jobs as you can really mix or rotate what you put in there, it would all just be layers rotting down..

Had built a cedar version in Canada.with side by side containers..when one was full just left it till it became dirt ...seemed to work ok. As you say some domestic,commercial or farm systems ie windrows are manually or mechanically turned and sometimes natural or forced aerated too.. mainly to speed and aid decomposition and comply with air pollution laws.

Hell, one can get too carried away though just for domestic use..bucket is good enough for me now, passive ( read lazy) gardener/farmer that I've become

[who]

.

Life always finds a way.

I'm about to start my own compost pile. Curious, how bad are the ants?

-The key to composting is to turn the pile over frequently (at least twice a week).

And remember that you can put anything organic into the pile: newspapers, cardboard, garden cuttings (including branches), et cetera.

[loong]

.

Life always finds a way.

I'm about to start my own compost pile. Curious, how bad are the ants?

-The key to composting is to turn the pile over frequently (at least twice a week).

And remember that you can put anything organic into the pile: newspapers, cardboard, garden cuttings (including branches), et cetera.

Ants can be a nuisance in the garden, but I haven't noticed that the ants are more prolific around my compost heaps than elsewhere in the garden.

I have to disagree with you that the key to composting is turning the pile twice a week. This may be advantageous if composting in batches and are in a hurry to get the finished product, but everytime you turn the pile, you risk losing precious nitrogen. Also by turning you will expose worms etc and that will attract the ants.

Putting large twigs and branches in the compost pile will tend to knit it together and make it very hard work to turn.

I do incorporate branches and woody material into my compost heaps, but I don't compost in batches. I add material to my piles as I get it. I use the branches etc to create air pockets in the heaps and so it is basically self aerating. After several months I will remove the outside material and use this to start a new pile. The fully composted material(apart from the stubborn woody stuff) from the centre is used in the garden.

In my opinion, by not disturbing the heap too much, the worms move in after it has cooled and turn

good compost into super-compost.

We all have our own ideas of the best way to do things and 'm not claiming that my way is going to be the best, Just that it suits me and I am happy with the finished product.

If I ever need a large amount of compost quickly, then I would use a different approach. Probably fermentation such as a bokashi method.

[IsaanAussie]

Well, I turn my stage 1 compost at least three times a week, more if time allows. I use CRH to trap the ammonia form of nitrogen and to increase the pH of the compost. Probiotic also breaks down the nitrogen elements. The answer is to keep it aerobic. As my compost is manure based it simply must be turned frequently especially during the initial temperature phase. Anaerobic compost is not pleasant or useful.

Once the compost is finished I have started fermenting it to increase the NPK values. Now it is anaerobic bokashi.

I have other compost windrows in which I dump grass clippings, banana plant wastes etc.. I use septic tank effluent to get these moving and do not turn the piles. These are setup of areas where I want to build soil and formed inside straw bale perimeters. The straw rots quickly and with a little EM help basically forms bokashi with natural fungis in the straw. When everything is broken down a bit I combine the pile and cover it with dirt and some compost. After the wet, rotary hoe the lot and start again.

[canopy]

Turning the pile is a common misconception of composting. As mentioned, turning is a good idea for batch composting. For the majority who do backyard composting incrementally a bit at a time, you never turn the pile. What you want is for the new material to heat up to a high enough temperature to break things down. That doesn't happen if you dilute it into the old stuff. Composting is a cycle and ideally you want to give your material the opportunity to go through each step of that cycle without interfering with it.

[IsaanAussie]

Honestly, on a farming forum you are suggesting back yard composting? Nid Noy, Nid Noy. Sorry but don't bring that here.

[canopy]

You seem confused. Please re-read the forum title.

[IsaanAussie]

You seem confused. Please re-read the forum title.

Canopy,

Please excuse me, yesterday was very frustrating, long, hard work and tiring. I needed to bite back and you coped it. Sorry, I dont agree with what you said but I was out of court.

IA

[cooked]

woof woof! For organic material to rot (and not 'go off' - I'm struggling here-) it needs: air (oxygen). warmth. moisture. These three elements kept in balance, will degrade organic material into what we call compost. If you use a lot of grass clippings for instance, due to the C/N ratio this ferments rapidly and collapses on itself, leading to oxygen being excluded from the biomass. It then stops rotting (bacterial process + fungi) and starts 'going off' which is a fungal (the wrong fungi), anaerobic process. That's why it smells if you don't mix grass clippings with other, coarser material. Turning the compost when it has ceased to produce warmth, even if there are worms in it, is an essential part of the composting process, otherwise you may have to wait much longer for it to mature.

The worms are a good sign but also mean that the compost is not yet ready for use, you still need to wait.

I don't look on compost so much as a source of nourishment for the plants but as a source of nourishment for the soil. Healthy soil will be able to give up its nutrients easier, the roots will be able to develop. That's my way of looking at it anyway.

[IsaanAussie]

Choice of words I suppose but I believe that composting decomposes organic matter, not rots it. I have recently started anaerobic fermentation of compost with great success and a sweet smell. I have always thought that aerobic was the only way but it isn't, there are good guy microbes that work anaerobically as well. The anaerobic way is harder but the results are good once you get the process right.

Absolutely agree compost is soil food, but differ on compost being used when fully matured. To me, it makes sense that if the decomposition of organics in the soil by microbes is feeding the plants then there should be some "live" organisms involved, something left to "chew" on.

Don't suppose it really matters what belief we have as long as it works.

[canopy]

On the topic of oxygen, yes compost needs oxygen. However, turning compost piles is old fashioned and seems to be a ritual that lacks scientific support. People seem to do it because they see other people do it. It may be interesting that research has found that within 15 minutes of turning a compost pile the new oxygen content is already depleted. Bottom line is turning a compost pile has little sustainable influence and a lot of research has been done side by side with turning versus no turning to support this conclusion. While you can turn a pile to increase aeration, a properly constructed compost pile needs no additional aeration and never needs turned. Having myself switched to the modern no-turn method, I can concur it works. In Thailand, keeping the pile wet year round I have found to be the key factor.

[IsaanAussie]

My compost consists of manure, straw and rice hulls. The issue is mixing and heating as much as the oxygen level. To get an even result it must be turned frequently. These are "old fashioned" three box systems and I move the material from box to box as well as turn it in each box. Again for aeration and mixing in other materials. The moisture level can be adjusted to suit the three stages. I windrow other materials to help build soil, those I do not turn, effectively building a layer cake with whatever comes to hand.

I doubt any manure based compost is produced without some form of aeration. Horses for courses, in my case pigs for pokes.

[cooked]

I agree that the compost heap should be properly constructed, but in practice you tend to have lots of grass or lots of leaves, then again lots of chopped up branches, all with different C/N ratios, so people will tend to make layers of different materials that should then later be mixed. Grass for instance should not where possible be put in the pile unmixed, it will just collapse on itself and go anaerobic (stink and go slimy),.

Commercial composters mix the materials according to what is available and leave it in windrows about 3 meters high, after which they check the internal temperature. The heap will be turned several times until it comes out as compost 4 months later. These guys aren't doing this for fun and certainly wouldn't be turning if it wasn't necessary..

As a gardener I remember being told at school never to use unripe compost for planting/sowing. Maybe in Thailand with the high temperatures this is less valid.

[lovelomsak]

I used to know a guy who composted to and didnot turn his compost. But at a certain point he would cover the compost with soil. Then he would turn the compost once or twice a week.When he was finished all I could see was rich dark soil. It was like the compost had simply turned to soil. He would then trun this into his garden.Everything was totally organic.

Also had a relative that every year had potatoes in his compost. No need to transplant just dig up and eat.

[IsaanAussie]

Glad to see this topic on the list again.

The ambient minimum temp here means the effects of anaerobic conditions are lessened, its too hot. But from experience the decomposition is slowed without regular turning early in the thermophyllic stage for those areas without oxygen.

Cation exchange is an important consideration and the clay soils here are perfect for compost work. If you mix in about 10% natural soil you will increase CE and add indigenous microbic life to your compost. Both will make the compost better, not by increasing the nutrients, but by making them more plant available.

Edited September 22, 2012 by IsaanAussie