Thai Charter Reform Process Starts To Look Sinister

[waza]

It all comes down to whether you want to see Thailand remain semi-feudal, with extremely slow social movement both micro and macro. Or Whether you want to take a chance with a genuine fledgling democracy, with all it's flaws and bogeyman characters. Personally, I think it's getting to the stage where it's either civil war or the latter. The lid can be put back on, but it won't be staying on for long any more.

What is the use of trading one master for another, espesially if the new master is far worse than what has come before and the old one is so loved.

Northern Thailand was an agrarian society, the political controls were centered in Bangkok so society and law was controlled by the community. Thaksin changed that by bringing capitalism and national politics to the rice paddies to promote and enrich himself and sold it as a movement for a fairer distribution of profits. He gave them credit and enslaved them with debt, bankrupted them then sold their land to the Chinese and Arabs, blamed the foriegners, then took credit for a social security safety net.

He was aided by world events, there was world financial boom while he was in power, Thailand was a tiger economy, riding the wave of high profits and eternal growth. However, all that wealth had to trickle down through Thaksin and his cohorts pockets to reach the north, not a lot did. When that wasnt enough for him he went after everything, that triggered his downfall. Post Thaksin was the GFC, credit evaporated, the boom went to bust, the world cut back and tightened its belt including Thailand. Thaksin sold this to Thais as a result of his ousting and the return of the old system and controls. He fed on the peoples discontent and showered money on them from exile, for their votes and participation in his red army. It gives the illusion of that the good times just await his return.

I agree the lid cant be put back on, and all we farrangs can do it sit back and watch the train wreck through our front windows ( or skip town) and provide our slanted commentary in forums

Crikey! That's a long winded way of confirming that you're in the semi-feudal camp, Waza. You raise one good point, though, albeit probably not in the way you intended: Thaksin was lucky with economic conditions; but had he not been overthrown, his luck would've run out by now; he would now be facing huge popular discontent; and he would be close to the natural end of his tenure.

No I just dont buy into the capitalist wet dream that a totally free market economy is good for consumers and that a persons wealth is measured in the amount of flashy high tech possesions they have. If people need to die in the street I hope its for a better cause than Thaksins back pocket or to regain his face. I would hate to see Thailand becaome another Syria.

Edited March 8, 2012 by waza

[jayboy]

Both immediately prior to the coup and the 2010 Bangkok riots were linked by a common factor, which irks Thaksin to this day and provides a suitable backdrop to his deliberate march to turn the Thai state into his personal fiefdom. Prior to the coup there was one important piece of state power jigsaw missing from Thaksin's armoury. The army. The coup stopped him putting his own people into the army leadership and closing out political control which already had effective control of the police force through appointing his proxies to the leadership. Knowledge of this explains why Thaksin's stooges permanently rail against the army leadership which is not in his pocket. Some are confused why the riots continued even after a deal was ostensibly made between the then government and the reds to hold an early election, a demand which was seemingly the main objective of the reds. It wasn't. The main objective was to bring down the government ahead of the army leadership appointments. The army again. Fast forward to the so-called Charter. We can be absolutely sure that the main objective of Thaksin is to stranglehold any independent institutions that threaten him. Second on his list after the army is the judiciary. The forum red apologists haven't got a clue. But then they never did.

At the varsity the dons would have a field day with a confused set of assertions like this.You seem to have overlooked the Thai army's appalling record of political interference, corruption and gross incompetence.As has been pointed out by leading experts the role of the Thai army is not to protect the nation ( it is dismally feeble at the miltary's proper functions) but to amass wealth for its senior officers.It was delightfully amusing to see the military apologists becoming so excited when the army helped out in the recent flooding (i.e doing what they were supposed to do) as though this compensated fot the long timeline of abuse.It is entirely natural that a civilian government should attempt to bring the discredited military under its control as in Indonesia for example where the army had some features in common.Of course there are concerns about the independence of the judiciary as there always are in Thailand, but the record after the last coup ( directed judicial intervention) hardly supports the thesis that Thaksin was the worst abuser here.

[Siam Simon]

It all comes down to whether you want to see Thailand remain semi-feudal, with extremely slow social movement both micro and macro. Or Whether you want to take a chance with a genuine fledgling democracy, with all it's flaws and bogeyman characters. Personally, I think it's getting to the stage where it's either civil war or the latter. The lid can be put back on, but it won't be staying on for long any more.

What is the use of trading one master for another, espesially if the new master is far worse than what has come before and the old one is so loved.

Northern Thailand was an agrarian society, the political controls were centered in Bangkok so society and law was controlled by the community. Thaksin changed that by bringing capitalism and national politics to the rice paddies to promote and enrich himself and sold it as a movement for a fairer distribution of profits. He gave them credit and enslaved them with debt, bankrupted them then sold their land to the Chinese and Arabs, blamed the foriegners, then took credit for a social security safety net.

He was aided by world events, there was world financial boom while he was in power, Thailand was a tiger economy, riding the wave of high profits and eternal growth. However, all that wealth had to trickle down through Thaksin and his cohorts pockets to reach the north, not a lot did. When that wasnt enough for him he went after everything, that triggered his downfall. Post Thaksin was the GFC, credit evaporated, the boom went to bust, the world cut back and tightened its belt including Thailand. Thaksin sold this to Thais as a result of his ousting and the return of the old system and controls. He fed on the peoples discontent and showered money on them from exile, for their votes and participation in his red army. It gives the illusion of that the good times just await his return.

I agree the lid cant be put back on, and all we farrangs can do it sit back and watch the train wreck through our front windows ( or skip town) and provide our slanted commentary in forums

Crikey! That's a long winded way of confirming that you're in the semi-feudal camp, Waza. You raise one good point, though, albeit probably not in the way you intended: Thaksin was lucky with economic conditions; but had he not been overthrown, his luck would've run out by now; he would now be facing huge popular discontent; and he would be close to the natural end of his tenure.

No I just dont buy into the capitalist wet dream that a totally free market economy is good for consumers and that a persons wealth is measured in the amount of flashy high tech possesions they have. If people need to die in the street I hope its for a better cause than Thaksins back pocket or to regain his face. I would hate to see Thailand becaome another Syria.

Do you live a subsistence level lifestyle, Waza?

[sparebox2]

I rather have another coup. A better coup.

[waza]

It all comes down to whether you want to see Thailand remain semi-feudal, with extremely slow social movement both micro and macro. Or Whether you want to take a chance with a genuine fledgling democracy, with all it's flaws and bogeyman characters. Personally, I think it's getting to the stage where it's either civil war or the latter. The lid can be put back on, but it won't be staying on for long any more.

What is the use of trading one master for another, espesially if the new master is far worse than what has come before and the old one is so loved.

Northern Thailand was an agrarian society, the political controls were centered in Bangkok so society and law was controlled by the community. Thaksin changed that by bringing capitalism and national politics to the rice paddies to promote and enrich himself and sold it as a movement for a fairer distribution of profits. He gave them credit and enslaved them with debt, bankrupted them then sold their land to the Chinese and Arabs, blamed the foriegners, then took credit for a social security safety net.

He was aided by world events, there was world financial boom while he was in power, Thailand was a tiger economy, riding the wave of high profits and eternal growth. However, all that wealth had to trickle down through Thaksin and his cohorts pockets to reach the north, not a lot did. When that wasnt enough for him he went after everything, that triggered his downfall. Post Thaksin was the GFC, credit evaporated, the boom went to bust, the world cut back and tightened its belt including Thailand. Thaksin sold this to Thais as a result of his ousting and the return of the old system and controls. He fed on the peoples discontent and showered money on them from exile, for their votes and participation in his red army. It gives the illusion of that the good times just await his return.

I agree the lid cant be put back on, and all we farrangs can do it sit back and watch the train wreck through our front windows ( or skip town) and provide our slanted commentary in forums

Crikey! That's a long winded way of confirming that you're in the semi-feudal camp, Waza. You raise one good point, though, albeit probably not in the way you intended: Thaksin was lucky with economic conditions; but had he not been overthrown, his luck would've run out by now; he would now be facing huge popular discontent; and he would be close to the natural end of his tenure.

No I just dont buy into the capitalist wet dream that a totally free market economy is good for consumers and that a persons wealth is measured in the amount of flashy high tech possesions they have. If people need to die in the street I hope its for a better cause than Thaksins back pocket or to regain his face. I would hate to see Thailand becaome another Syria.

Do you live a subsistence level lifestyle, Waza?

Your pushing me too far left. Issan is already an agrarian society is a society that depends on agriculture as its primary means for support and sustenance. Substence isnt subsistence, you alway have to twist things. White man talk with forked tounge

[Siam Simon]

Do you live a subsistence level lifestyle, Waza?

Your pushing me too far left. Issan is already an agrarian society is a society that depends on agriculture as its primary means for support and sustenance. Substence isnt subsistence, you alway have to twist things. White man talk with forked tounge

I just asked you a straightforward question, which you didn't answer but decided to get ahead of yourself.

[Buchholz]

Despite being hounded and threatened with charges as a whistleblower the charges were never pursued. Why do you think that is? And don't tell me the judges are in the PTP's pocket.

Not being in the country might have something to do with it. Coming back and getting a government job might have something to do with it too.

Pasit was charged on his return and is out on bail.

The tapes have nothing to do with whistle blowing. They were recorded by the "whistle blower" as an attempt to discredit the Democrats. When that failed, the PTP tried to discredit the judges.

I don't think the judges needed any help.

Yes, but the charges ARE being pursued, and Pasit being called a whistle blower is a crock.

Update regarding the charges that "were never pursued" on the disgraced former fugitive who is now employed by the Yingluck government and the actor cum PTP mouthpiece spokesman also employed by the Yingluck government. Seems they want to delay justice.

[Buchholz]

Evidence check for constitution court libel case postponed

The Criminal Court yesterday postponed an appointment to check witnesses and evidence in the investigation involving Pasit Sakdanarong, who has been charged with leaking a secret video of Constitution Court judges.

Pasit, now an Adviser to the Health Ministry, plus Pheu Thai MP Prompong Nopparit, who is also Party Spokesman, and Matichon Group have been sued for libel by the Constitution Court for a video clip about an alleged conspiracy with the Democrat Party over a court prosecution that could have seen the party dissolved.

Pasit was formerly the secretary for Chat Chonlavorn, ex-president of the Constitution Court. He has been accused of working with a group to make a fake video clip to undermine the authority of Constitution Court judges. The clip was posted by user "Ohmygod 3009" on the "Matichon Online" website from September 29 to October 29, 2010.

Pasit's lawyer said his client could not attend the appointment because of duties with the Southern Border Provinces Administration Centre. Prompong would also be "on duty" at the House of Representatives. So the pair asked the Criminal Court to postpone the review.

The court and plaintiff considered the matter and agreed to reschedule the appointment to 9.30am on June 18.

-- The Nation 2012-04-03

[OzMick]

Pity for them them case has been presented to the courts. Caught a bit earlier, it could have been "no-billed" for "lack of evidence" or failing that, some weird interpretation of the law.

Being in government has some privileges; you can get away with a lot. Some of the PTP supporters seem to believe terrorism, murder and arson are an acceptable means to an end. Perjury, corruption and theft aren't even character flaws.