German, 25, Stabbed To Death By Thai Girlfriend

[strabel23]

Just heard over CNN where a Tampa Bay football player was stabbed to death by his girlfriend...it happens everywhere.  But I don't think I would be so philisophical if it were my son dead at 26.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would like to clarify first that I assume the lady was a pro and also that I am familiar with Thai culture as I have been living in Thailand for 13 years. It is a very rare occasion that a 26 year old man would have opportunity to meet any other than a girl working in a bar as most thai know only how to say " what is your name' Where you go?" There are a few exceptions but a man of this age would have been spending most of his time hanging around the bars. I speak with a lot of experience as I have seen and talked to many foreigners who are or have lived with a Thai lady. I have heard a lot of sad stories of foreigners been cheated for everything they have. I could relate a 100 stories. Thai are perceived to be very friendly and beautiful smiling people and many of them are. What most foreigners that do not live here don't know is that they also can be very hot tempered and extremely violent. Disagreements often end in a midnight revenge killing when it is least expected. The killers are rarely found and if they are caught and have money they never see the inside of a prison wall. I personally know several Thai that have killed and feel no remorse for what they have done. I know there will be those that think I am being too sympathetic for the young man and putting most of the blame on the girl but that is just because I have seen it so many times and have probably more experience than you will ever know. Anything that you want to know about Thai just ask me. What it really comes down to though is that the girl if she thought her boyfriend was no good then all she had to do was to get up and walk away. Now a young man has lost his life for what? Nothing can justify what she did and now the parents of this man will have to live with the memory of the tragic loss of their son for the rest of their lives. You tell me what does she deserve?

[aaaaaa]

typical topic !

would it rival "Rain...." - any bets ?

[Sir Burr]

... and have probably more experience than you will ever know.  Anything that you want to know about Thai just ask me.

Modesty is obviously not one of your vices.

[MrOzark]

This thread appears to be about 90% conjecture and reaction. I'd prefer to see some constructive ideas about how to understand what actually happened as well as ways to prevent it from happening again.

[sonthaya]

... and have probably more experience than you will ever know.  Anything that you want to know about Thai just ask me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Modesty is obviously not one of your vices.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Innocent until proven guilty, you can't judge a whole culture by " I know everything about Thai " pretty stupid remark.

[namjai]

Regardless of what really happened, you don't have the

the right to KILL SOMEBODY because he may, or may not,

have had another girlfriend.

Dead men tell no tales!! We have NO IDEA what the real story

was. After the fact it is quite easy to blame the victim.

Anyway, whoever said "falang come to thailand looking for sex"

doesn't seem to understand this happens everywhere in the world.

It has nothing to do with Thailand or sex.

Foreign , white women go all over the world "paying for sex", does

that mean some guy can KILL THEM? NO!!! Get real!!

[namjai]

Dear Sonthaya,

You are so RIGHT. Who knows what really happened?

And you CANNOT judge any culture by one person's

actions.

Ps. Nice smile!!

[gharknes]

i skipped through this thread and i'm not surprised to see that most of it contains posts from people that express opinions on what they think "must" have happened and what type of person they think someone is without actually knowing, this is why the jury system can be dangerous.

What we do know is that they argued often and had serious physical conflict, the sad thing is neither of them had the sense or courage to walk away before a serious injury took place, yes she was Thai (so what) he was farang (so what) they where both people, she probably had nothing to gain by killing him except maybe a backpack so no motive as such

I notice more and more as I stay here a certain type of farage that has some kind off superiority idea between themselves and Thais, I had an argument with a realy nasty ignorant farang one night when I was out playing pool with my team in another bar, I was accompanied by my Thai Girlfriend who also played on the team, this guy walks over to where she was sitting and told her to set the table up for the next game as he was above that sort of thing when Thai Girls where available, I grabbed her arm as she was getting off the seat and told her to sit down, this guy got angry, i basically told him to F off and do it himself, I've seen this sort of thing many times, my mates wife was at the center of another incident from a very rude farang who again though - ah thai girl - I can treat her like &lt;deleted&gt;, touch her up make joke of her..............he leaned a hard lesson that night

The point I'm making here is there are a number of farang or foreighners that come to this country with a preconceived idea that Thai people are below them and can abuse and treat them as they see fit, in the case of the unfortunate event on this thread they already have the answers based their own head in ass attitude, we are allowed to abuse Thais if they retaliate it's not our fault.

[MrOzark]

Hmmmmmmmmmm interesting thought gharknes....

Who's more prejudiced in Thailand: the Farangs or the Thai's?

Edited January 3, 2006 by MrOzark

[strabel23]

... and have probably more experience than you will ever know.  Anything that you want to know about Thai just ask me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Modesty is obviously not one of your vices.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Innocent until proven guilty, you can't judge a whole culture by " I know everything about Thai " pretty stupid remark.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sonthaya I judge Thai culture from 13 years plus of not living in an expatriate enclave, I don't know what you are talking about. It's incomprehensible. I live work and associate with Thai's at every level. You have shown your ignorance by making an derogatory comment directed at me without the benefit of knowing my background. I have had every opportunity to witness Thai culture and am fully qualified to judge Thai culture and I'm not impressed with what I see. You obviously are personaly biased and judging by the photo you have posted have your own personal problems so be careful when you call someone else stupid.

[amarka]

Hello Steven,

some of your comments seem a bit strange to me....

you think that Thais cant speak english - except for the pros ? as you call them? and why should a 26 year old man not be able to meet a girl in Thailand - other than a bar girl?

what are you doing in thailand and who are you with? - not my business really , just wondered?

you paint a bad picture of the thais - but some guys are suckers and loose everything no matter where they are! doesn't have to be thailand!

just wonder why you are still in Thailand and who you are with?

we all know that girls dont just walk away - they get jealous and then anything can happen..... in any country of the world!

amarka

Just heard over CNN where a Tampa Bay football player was stabbed to death by his girlfriend...it happens everywhere.  But I don't think I would be so philisophical if it were my son dead at 26.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would like to clarify first that I assume the lady was a pro and also that I am familiar with Thai culture as I have been living in Thailand for 13 years. It is a very rare occasion that a 26 year old man would have opportunity to meet any other than a girl working in a bar as most thai know only how to say " what is your name' Where you go?" There are a few exceptions but a man of this age would have been spending most of his time hanging around the bars. I speak with a lot of experience as I have seen and talked to many foreigners who are or have lived with a Thai lady. I have heard a lot of sad stories of foreigners been cheated for everything they have. I could relate a 100 stories. Thai are perceived to be very friendly and beautiful smiling people and many of them are. What most foreigners that do not live here don't know is that they also can be very hot tempered and extremely violent. Disagreements often end in a midnight revenge killing when it is least expected. The killers are rarely found and if they are caught and have money they never see the inside of a prison wall. I personally know several Thai that have killed and feel no remorse for what they have done. I know there will be those that think I am being too sympathetic for the young man and putting most of the blame on the girl but that is just because I have seen it so many times and have probably more experience than you will ever know. Anything that you want to know about Thai just ask me. What it really comes down to though is that the girl if she thought her boyfriend was no good then all she had to do was to get up and walk away. Now a young man has lost his life for what? Nothing can justify what she did and now the parents of this man will have to live with the memory of the tragic loss of their son for the rest of their lives. You tell me what does she deserve?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[amarka]

hi gharkness,

yes i get your feeling...

Thai / falang ... no difference! social conflicts happen everywhere.

again - these bad people are all over the world.

they always will be.....

amarka

i skipped through this thread and i'm not surprised to see that most of it contains posts from people that express opinions on what they think "must" have happened and what type of person they think someone is without actually knowing, this is why the jury system can be dangerous.

What we do know is that they argued often and had serious physical conflict, the sad thing is neither of them had the sense or courage to walk away before a serious injury took place, yes she was Thai (so what) he was farang (so what) they where both people, she probably had nothing to gain by killing him except maybe a backpack so no motive as such

I notice more and more as I stay here a certain type of farage that has some kind off superiority idea between themselves and Thais, I had an argument with a realy nasty ignorant farang one night when I was out playing pool with my team in another bar, I was accompanied by my Thai Girlfriend who also played on the team, this guy walks over to where she was sitting and told her to set the table up for the next game as he was above that sort of thing when Thai Girls where available, I grabbed her arm as she was getting off the seat and told her to sit down, this guy got angry, i basically told him to F off and do it himself, I've seen this sort of thing many times, my mates wife was at the center of another incident from a very rude farang who again though - ah thai girl - I can treat her like &lt;deleted&gt;, touch her up make joke of her..............he leaned a hard lesson that night

The point I'm making here is there are a number of farang or foreighners that come to this country with a preconceived idea that Thai people are below them and can abuse and treat them as they see fit, in the case of the unfortunate event on this thread they already have the answers based their own head in ass attitude, we are allowed to abuse Thais if they retaliate it's not our fault.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[tony12345]

Youve got to love these 30 something university drop outmales who post on here that are now living in thailand.

They slate thai bar girls and the tourists who come to thailand looking for sex, when this is exactly what they came to thailand for in the first place for.

It also makes me laugh the way they are all so enlightened about thai society, and that anyone who only visits thailand is naive, stupid and knows &lt;deleted&gt; all about life in general.

Glad i got that off my chest.

[gharknes]

I get the impression there are some farangs here with their heads really far up thiers asssses, I also get the impression they came to thailand because they wheren't tolerated in their own country....sad but true

you meet theses people all the time around the town, noses in the air ready to trampel anyone that gets in their way or abuse a thai lady every chance they get because they thing it's their right..................it doesn't matter if you've been here 6 months or 13 years if you're an a'hole with a diminnished view of life and people and have no respect for anyone, it doesn't matter where you go on this world you will always be an a'hole, people who say they've been here or there for x years don't mean diddly, you are who you are nothing to do with how long

not directed at anyone in particular just the a'holes in general

[MrOzark]

"but he's gotta know the territory"

[sonthaya]

... and have probably more experience than you will ever know.  Anything that you want to know about Thai just ask me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Modesty is obviously not one of your vices.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Innocent until proven guilty, you can't judge a whole culture by " I know everything about Thai " pretty stupid remark.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sonthaya I judge Thai culture from 13 years plus of not living in an expatriate enclave, I don't know what you are talking about. It's incomprehensible. I live work and associate with Thai's at every level. You have shown your ignorance by making an derogatory comment directed at me without the benefit of knowing my background. I have had every opportunity to witness Thai culture and am fully qualified to judge Thai culture and I'm not impressed with what I see. You obviously are personaly biased and judging by the photo you have posted have your own personal problems so be careful when you call someone else stupid.

Steven, it's ok you call me stupid, it doesn't bother me, but if you read through the other postings you'll find that I'm not the only stupid poster, only you are the clever one.

Edited January 6, 2006 by sonthaya

[gharknes]

"but he's gotta know the territory"

lmao

[strabel23]

Hello Steven,

some of your comments seem a bit strange to me....

you think that Thais cant speak english - except for the pros ? as you call them? and why should a 26 year old man not be able to meet a girl in Thailand - other than a bar girl?

what are you doing in thailand and who are you with? - not my business really , just wondered?

you paint a bad picture of the thais - but some guys are suckers and loose everything no matter where they are! doesn't have to be thailand!

just wonder why you are still in Thailand and who you are with?

we all know that girls dont just walk away - they get jealous and then anything can happen..... in any country of the world!

Hello Amarka, I will answer your question so you can understand more easily. First of all I would like to say I don't know why I am being attacked here as most of the comments have assumed that the female attacker was a bar girl and most probably was. My point is that Thai are very dangerous and kill for very little reason. Their Buddhist beliefs are just a facade and are very seldom followed even by the monks themselves. Alcohol is strictly against Buddhist beliefs yet Thailand is one of the highest consumers of alcohol in the world. More often than not they visit the temple to ask the monk to give them a winning lottery number than anything else. I assume most of you live in an enclave with a guard posted at the gate. I do not. I came to this country 14 years ago for a Hol. and enjoyed the beautiful weather and the many scenic locations. I was also, at first, impressed with how friendly the Thai were. I returned a few times and as I was in the process of selling my business I decided to come stay here for awhile upon completion of sale. I met my wife here and have been together with her ever since. Now comes the horrible part. About 5 years ago another foreigner came to our small town. He was brought here by another foreigner and his thai wife for the purpose of going into the prawn farming business as partners. He of course was going to be the financier and they were to supply the knowhow. To make a long story short they cheated him out of more than 1 million baht and one day when he felt his life was in danger he and his girlfriend moved away. I tried to warn him many times that they were cheating him but they always convinced him that I did not know what I was talking about. After he was gone they then brought another foreigner from Phuket with the same promise of being able to make good returns on investing in the prawn farming. This man was not so lucky. He did not have a girl friend and so slept at the farm in a small thatched hut. A small Holland man that the towns people said was a nice man. After about 3 months he was found dead with 2 bullet holes in his chest as he slept. His family came to recover his body grief stricken. A few months later to my surprise I learned that the perpratator had been arrested. It turned out that the wife of his partner had hired someone to kill him so that they did not have to pay him back the money he had given them from the profits of the harvest Apparently the falang husband did not know this was her plan. 2 years pass by and a Swedish man comes to try his luck also accompanied by his Thai lady. His farm was robbed during the night by an organized group equipped with nets that walked off with about 500 kgs. His worker said he didn't hear or see anything. Now about 2 months later he withdrew some cash from the ATM machine and proceeded back home, approx. 3 p.m... At about 5 p.m. a thai man appeared at his open kitchen door and in very poor english demanded money. When he refused the man brought forth a knife that he had been concealing behind his back and attempted to kill him. They struggled on the floor and he was able to beat off his attacker but not without receiving injuries. When the police were summoned they only asked if anything was stolen and when they were told no they didn't even bother to come. Eventually they did come but it was only after he had gone to the hosp. for medical help a he had knife wounds all over his legs and arms. Needless to say since they were at the scene so many hrs. after the fact the mess had already been cleaned up so they never were able to obtain any evidence and the perpretator was never caught. Another friend of mine, Austrian, a very gentle and kind hearted man was held at gunpoint in his own home with his wife and children. They were robbed of their valuables and left unharmed. The thiefs were wearing ski masks but his wife recognized one as a friend of the family. 2 weeks ago my wife's friend disappeared after saying she was going to meet her boyfriend. She had recently ended a relationship with another man and somehow ended up meeting with this man first. She was found floating in a tributary to a water canal strangled to death. Another foreigner had just married and was walking out in front of the hotel where he had rented a reception hall carrying a camera and wearing a gold necklace. He also was relieved of both and killed on his wedding day by 2 thais on motorcycle. I have had my life threatened over a very small matter in which I was not in the wrong but have not been so unfortunate as the majority. My home is protected with a barb wired fence and 2 german shepherds but even this is not enough. My wife used to have 7 poodles but only 1 is still alive now as the others were poisoned. My friend's home now is also surrounded by a high wall and barbed wire on the top the same as you see in a prison. He has four dogs now 3 of them rotweilers. Many murders happen in Thailand that are hushed up whenever possible. My wife's sister lives in Krabi with her Italian husband and she says many foreigners have been killed there also. In response to my stating that most thais cannot speak english. I have been approached by 3 different schools to teach. 2 of them Govern. and 1 private. Out of all 3 schools there wasn't 1 english teacher that could communicate to me in english that I could understand. I had to speak with them in Thai. I make no apologys for what I say because I speak truthfully and my point that most here seem to miss is that a lot of Thai's do not respect life and so should be made to pay a severe enough penalty in order to protect these innocent people from a senseless death. To Sonthaya- It's okay too if you call me stupid because it's what I expected from you.

amarka

Just heard over CNN where a Tampa Bay football player was stabbed to death by his girlfriend...it happens everywhere.  But I don't think I would be so philisophical if it were my son dead at 26.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would like to clarify first that I assume the lady was a pro and also that I am familiar with Thai culture as I have been living in Thailand for 13 years. It is a very rare occasion that a 26 year old man would have opportunity to meet any other than a girl working in a bar as most thai know only how to say " what is your name' Where you go?" There are a few exceptions but a man of this age would have been spending most of his time hanging around the bars. I speak with a lot of experience as I have seen and talked to many foreigners who are or have lived with a Thai lady. I have heard a lot of sad stories of foreigners been cheated for everything they have. I could relate a 100 stories. Thai are perceived to be very friendly and beautiful smiling people and many of them are. What most foreigners that do not live here don't know is that they also can be very hot tempered and extremely violent. Disagreements often end in a midnight revenge killing when it is least expected. The killers are rarely found and if they are caught and have money they never see the inside of a prison wall. I personally know several Thai that have killed and feel no remorse for what they have done. I know there will be those that think I am being too sympathetic for the young man and putting most of the blame on the girl but that is just because I have seen it so many times and have probably more experience than you will ever know. Anything that you want to know about Thai just ask me. What it really comes down to though is that the girl if she thought her boyfriend was no good then all she had to do was to get up and walk away. Now a young man has lost his life for what? Nothing can justify what she did and now the parents of this man will have to live with the memory of the tragic loss of their son for the rest of their lives. You tell me what does she deserve?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[kat]

"I make no apologys for what I say because I speak truthfully"

Well good on you. The truth is often complicated, because more than 1 side can be true. However, I believe that it is ridiculous to ignore overwhelming patterns by saying everywhere is the same.

Telling it like it is will not make you popular. But, it will help the silent people.

[gharknes]

Hello Steven,

some of your comments seem a bit strange to me....

you think that Thais cant speak english - except for the pros ? as you call them? and why should a 26 year old man not be able to meet a girl in Thailand - other than a bar girl?

what are you doing in thailand and who are you with? - not my business really , just wondered?

you paint a bad picture of the thais - but some guys are suckers and loose everything no matter where they are! doesn't have to be thailand!

just wonder why you are still in Thailand and who you are with?

we all know that girls dont just walk away - they get jealous and then anything can happen..... in any country of the world!

Hello Amarka, I will answer your question so you can understand more easily. First of all I would like to say I don't know why I am being attacked here as most of the comments have assumed that the female attacker was a bar girl and most probably was. My point is that Thai are very dangerous and kill for very little reason. Their Buddhist beliefs are just a facade and are very seldom followed even by the monks themselves. Alcohol is strictly against Buddhist beliefs yet Thailand is one of the highest consumers of alcohol in the world. More often than not they visit the temple to ask the monk to give them a winning lottery number than anything else. I assume most of you live in an enclave with a guard posted at the gate. I do not. I came to this country 14 years ago for a Hol. and enjoyed the beautiful weather and the many scenic locations. I was also, at first, impressed with how friendly the Thai were. I returned a few times and as I was in the process of selling my business I decided to come stay here for awhile upon completion of sale. I met my wife here and have been together with her ever since. Now comes the horrible part. About 5 years ago another foreigner came to our small town. He was brought here by another foreigner and his thai wife for the purpose of going into the prawn farming business as partners. He of course was going to be the financier and they were to supply the knowhow. To make a long story short they cheated him out of more than 1 million baht and one day when he felt his life was in danger he and his girlfriend moved away. I tried to warn him many times that they were cheating him but they always convinced him that I did not know what I was talking about. After he was gone they then brought another foreigner from Phuket with the same promise of being able to make good returns on investing in the prawn farming. This man was not so lucky. He did not have a girl friend and so slept at the farm in a small thatched hut. A small Holland man that the towns people said was a nice man. After about 3 months he was found dead with 2 bullet holes in his chest as he slept. His family came to recover his body grief stricken. A few months later to my surprise I learned that the perpratator had been arrested. It turned out that the wife of his partner had hired someone to kill him so that they did not have to pay him back the money he had given them from the profits of the harvest Apparently the falang husband did not know this was her plan. 2 years pass by and a Swedish man comes to try his luck also accompanied by his Thai lady. His farm was robbed during the night by an organized group equipped with nets that walked off with about 500 kgs. His worker said he didn't hear or see anything. Now about 2 months later he withdrew some cash from the ATM machine and proceeded back home, approx. 3 p.m... At about 5 p.m. a thai man appeared at his open kitchen door and in very poor english demanded money. When he refused the man brought forth a knife that he had been concealing behind his back and attempted to kill him. They struggled on the floor and he was able to beat off his attacker but not without receiving injuries. When the police were summoned they only asked if anything was stolen and when they were told no they didn't even bother to come. Eventually they did come but it was only after he had gone to the hosp. for medical help a he had knife wounds all over his legs and arms. Needless to say since they were at the scene so many hrs. after the fact the mess had already been cleaned up so they never were able to obtain any evidence and the perpretator was never caught. Another friend of mine, Austrian, a very gentle and kind hearted man was held at gunpoint in his own home with his wife and children. They were robbed of their valuables and left unharmed. The thiefs were wearing ski masks but his wife recognized one as a friend of the family. 2 weeks ago my wife's friend disappeared after saying she was going to meet her boyfriend. She had recently ended a relationship with another man and somehow ended up meeting with this man first. She was found floating in a tributary to a water canal strangled to death. Another foreigner had just married and was walking out in front of the hotel where he had rented a reception hall carrying a camera and wearing a gold necklace. He also was relieved of both and killed on his wedding day by 2 thais on motorcycle. I have had my life threatened over a very small matter in which I was not in the wrong but have not been so unfortunate as the majority. My home is protected with a barb wired fence and 2 german shepherds but even this is not enough. My wife used to have 7 poodles but only 1 is still alive now as the others were poisoned. My friend's home now is also surrounded by a high wall and barbed wire on the top the same as you see in a prison. He has four dogs now 3 of them rotweilers. Many murders happen in Thailand that are hushed up whenever possible. My wife's sister lives in Krabi with her Italian husband and she says many foreigners have been killed there also. In response to my stating that most thais cannot speak english. I have been approached by 3 different schools to teach. 2 of them Govern. and 1 private. Out of all 3 schools there wasn't 1 english teacher that could communicate to me in english that I could understand. I had to speak with them in Thai. I make no apologys for what I say because I speak truthfully and my point that most here seem to miss is that a lot of Thai's do not respect life and so should be made to pay a severe enough penalty in order to protect these innocent people from a senseless death. To Sonthaya- It's okay too if you call me stupid because it's what I expected from you.

amarka

Just heard over CNN where a Tampa Bay football player was stabbed to death by his girlfriend...it happens everywhere.  But I don't think I would be so philisophical if it were my son dead at 26.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would like to clarify first that I assume the lady was a pro and also that I am familiar with Thai culture as I have been living in Thailand for 13 years. It is a very rare occasion that a 26 year old man would have opportunity to meet any other than a girl working in a bar as most thai know only how to say " what is your name' Where you go?" There are a few exceptions but a man of this age would have been spending most of his time hanging around the bars. I speak with a lot of experience as I have seen and talked to many foreigners who are or have lived with a Thai lady. I have heard a lot of sad stories of foreigners been cheated for everything they have. I could relate a 100 stories. Thai are perceived to be very friendly and beautiful smiling people and many of them are. What most foreigners that do not live here don't know is that they also can be very hot tempered and extremely violent. Disagreements often end in a midnight revenge killing when it is least expected. The killers are rarely found and if they are caught and have money they never see the inside of a prison wall. I personally know several Thai that have killed and feel no remorse for what they have done. I know there will be those that think I am being too sympathetic for the young man and putting most of the blame on the girl but that is just because I have seen it so many times and have probably more experience than you will ever know. Anything that you want to know about Thai just ask me. What it really comes down to though is that the girl if she thought her boyfriend was no good then all she had to do was to get up and walk away. Now a young man has lost his life for what? Nothing can justify what she did and now the parents of this man will have to live with the memory of the tragic loss of their son for the rest of their lives. You tell me what does she deserve?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i realy don't think thailand is different to anywhere else, ever been through a divorce in the west ?

their methods might be different, the result is the same, plus there are some very stupid people about that leave themselves wide open, i've never been through a divorce myself but i know many that have.

[kat]

Oh really? Do divorces in the West leave people maimed and murdered?

I think the term divorce is used as a catchword on this forum. We don't know why people divorced, how many dependents are involved at the point of divorce, and whether or not the ex-spouse was completely dependent on taking care of the children and the home. There are some women who even gave up their careers or work lives to be a spouse, have children, and take care of the house. Did he or she ask for the divorce, did he leave her for another woman, did he beat her, did she cheat on him, etc.

There are many nuances and conditions to consider in the catchword "divorce". The major difference is that in SOME Western countries, women have a legal net, whereas in Thailand women have no legal frameworks to protect them. They must therefore revert to other tactics.

[strabel23]

Oh really? Do divorces in the West leave people maimed and murdered?

I think the term divorce is used as a catchword on this forum. We don't know why people divorced, how many dependents are involved at the point of divorce, and whether or not the ex-spouse was completely dependent on taking care of the children and the home. There are some women who even gave up their careers or work lives to be a spouse, have children, and take care of the house. Did he or she ask for the divorce, did he leave her for another woman, did he beat her, did she cheat on him, etc.

There are many nuances and conditions to consider in the catchword "divorce". The major difference is that in SOME Western countries, women have a legal net, whereas in Thailand women have no legal frameworks to protect them. They must therefore revert to other tactics.

Further to my post yesterday I would like to add a few more insights for those of you that may be seeing Thai from a viewpoint of a posh hotel room paid for by Co. expense acct....20% of the Thai population live in the cities while the other 80% live in the country. It is here that you will discover the true Thai and their life styles. Many of you will never see this because no one would ever take you outside of the protection of a resort area. Most foreigners would not relate to you the stories I have told you because they maybe ashamed or have no access to the web. Killings are common in the countryside as no one ever believes they can obtain justice through the police or court system and I tend to agree with them. Most Thai from the country are illiterate usually completing no more than 6 years of schooling before dropping out to work on the family rice farm or looking after cows or other agricultural pursuits. The women usually marry at the age of 16 and by arranged marriage. Many times only knowing each other when they were children growing up. More often than not a young man and woman are forced to marry because they were suspected of sleeping together whether true or not. Saving face is more important than the future success or happiness of the marriage. Needless to say most of these marriages end up in divorce but since most marriages in Thailand are unofficial there is no need to go to the court. The man's family must pay a dowry when marrying consisting of money and or gold dependant only on the wealth of the families. This is the only compensation the wife receives no matter if their is children or not. Unfortunately this money is usually spent long before the marriage ends. The woman usually ends up with 2 toddlers while the husband goes on his merry way. This is why Thailand has so many prostitutes working the bars in the tourist resorts and it is not even so uncommon for a bar girl to be living with a thai husband or boyfriend and selling her pussy at the same time. Such is the mentality of the thai people. Many bar girls have regular customers that come several times a year and stay with them a month or so at a time. These clueless souls think that by sending money to their girlfriends every month that they will faithfully wait for them in their bungalow until they return. Little do they realize that as soon as the plane lifts off the girl is back in the bar lining up the next monthly paying customer. The more beautiful the girl the more likely that this is happening. Foreigners that come here think that this is paradise. What a delusion. Bar girls will get angry and threaten other bar girls with violence if for example they sleep with a foreigner and the next night when he comes back to the bar and decides to give his attention to a different girl. There is a constant jealousy happening and the foreigner does not realize that all he means to the girl is money in her pocket and all of those friendly smiles and attitudes are for one purpose only. The smart ones have many tricks they use also such as wearing very little gold or none at all and then taking their Tiluk for a walk past all the jewelery shops just for a look. Or on the last day of their stay they accompany their Tiluks to the airport for a last farewell because they know more often than not the departing falang will most likely empty his pocket and wallet of his remaining thai bht. thinking that he probably won't be back gain for awhile so in a moment of final bliss feels a softspot. Then it's quickly back to the bar again for another one. This is how many of these problems occur that end up in violence or death for foreigners. Mostly they are unwitting victims caught up in something they don't have a clue about what's going on. Many foreigners have tried to set up businesses in Patong. One rented a spot on the beach walkway and started selling silver jewelery. At first the Thai thought this was funny and laughed but when they saw that he was making money they chased him away. Another Swiss man set up a wind surfing rental on the beach. At night he locked everything up and went home. The next day when he returned all of the boards had holes punched through them. @ more swedish men bought 2 water skiddoos. They were told if they didn't leave they would be killed. They sold the skiddoos and left Thailand. I could go on and on about violence towards westerners but I think by now you should get the message. One last comment I would like to make is for western women never to go out alone at night. Recently a Welsh tourist was raped and murdered on Lamai beach in Koh Samui and a 12 year old girl was also raped 5 days ago. The german man murdered by his thai girlfriend may or may not of been a prostitute but there is a 99% probability that she was and anyone that has directed any bad comments at me are the one's living with their heads up their ass. I am not afraid to speak out for those that have been abused and treated like nothing more than a few lousy baht in the pocket so those of you that think I am not being fair and honest then fire away. I have many more stories I can relate to this forum. It's time for the silent majority to stand up and for those of you that are living in posh protected falang enclaves I invite you to come live out in the country away from the tourist sites for a dose of reality.

[VanZam]

Oh really? Do divorces in the West leave people maimed and murdered?

I think the term divorce is used as a catchword on this forum. We don't know why people divorced, how many dependents are involved at the point of divorce, and whether or not the ex-spouse was completely dependent on taking care of the children and the home. There are some women who even gave up their careers or work lives to be a spouse, have children, and take care of the house. Did he or she ask for the divorce, did he leave her for another woman, did he beat her, did she cheat on him, etc.

There are many nuances and conditions to consider in the catchword "divorce". The major difference is that in SOME Western countries, women have a legal net, whereas in Thailand women have no legal frameworks to protect them. They must therefore revert to other tactics.

Further to my post yesterday I would like to add a few more insights for those of you that may be seeing Thai from a viewpoint of a posh hotel room paid for by Co. expense acct....20% of the Thai population live in the cities while the other 80% live in the country. It is here that you will discover the true Thai and their life styles. Many of you will never see this because no one would ever take you outside of the protection of a resort area. Most foreigners would not relate to you the stories I have told you because they maybe ashamed or have no access to the web. Killings are common in the countryside as no one ever believes they can obtain justice through the police or court system and I tend to agree with them. Most Thai from the country are illiterate usually completing no more than 6 years of schooling before dropping out to work on the family rice farm or looking after cows or other agricultural pursuits. The women usually marry at the age of 16 and by arranged marriage. Many times only knowing each other when they were children growing up. More often than not a young man and woman are forced to marry because they were suspected of sleeping together whether true or not. Saving face is more important than the future success or happiness of the marriage. Needless to say most of these marriages end up in divorce but since most marriages in Thailand are unofficial there is no need to go to the court. The man's family must pay a dowry when marrying consisting of money and or gold dependant only on the wealth of the families. This is the only compensation the wife receives no matter if their is children or not. Unfortunately this money is usually spent long before the marriage ends. The woman usually ends up with 2 toddlers while the husband goes on his merry way. This is why Thailand has so many prostitutes working the bars in the tourist resorts and it is not even so uncommon for a bar girl to be living with a thai husband or boyfriend and selling her pussy at the same time. Such is the mentality of the thai people. Many bar girls have regular customers that come several times a year and stay with them a month or so at a time. These clueless souls think that by sending money to their girlfriends every month that they will faithfully wait for them in their bungalow until they return. Little do they realize that as soon as the plane lifts off the girl is back in the bar lining up the next monthly paying customer. The more beautiful the girl the more likely that this is happening. Foreigners that come here think that this is paradise. What a delusion. Bar girls will get angry and threaten other bar girls with violence if for example they sleep with a foreigner and the next night when he comes back to the bar and decides to give his attention to a different girl. There is a constant jealousy happening and the foreigner does not realize that all he means to the girl is money in her pocket and all of those friendly smiles and attitudes are for one purpose only. The smart ones have many tricks they use also such as wearing very little gold or none at all and then taking their Tiluk for a walk past all the jewelery shops just for a look. Or on the last day of their stay they accompany their Tiluks to the airport for a last farewell because they know more often than not the departing falang will most likely empty his pocket and wallet of his remaining thai bht. thinking that he probably won't be back gain for awhile so in a moment of final bliss feels a softspot. Then it's quickly back to the bar again for another one. This is how many of these problems occur that end up in violence or death for foreigners. Mostly they are unwitting victims caught up in something they don't have a clue about what's going on. Many foreigners have tried to set up businesses in Patong. One rented a spot on the beach walkway and started selling silver jewelery. At first the Thai thought this was funny and laughed but when they saw that he was making money they chased him away. Another Swiss man set up a wind surfing rental on the beach. At night he locked everything up and went home. The next day when he returned all of the boards had holes punched through them. @ more swedish men bought 2 water skiddoos. They were told if they didn't leave they would be killed. They sold the skiddoos and left Thailand. I could go on and on about violence towards westerners but I think by now you should get the message. One last comment I would like to make is for western women never to go out alone at night. Recently a Welsh tourist was raped and murdered on Lamai beach in Koh Samui and a 12 year old girl was also raped 5 days ago. The german man murdered by his thai girlfriend may or may not of been a prostitute but there is a 99% probability that she was and anyone that has directed any bad comments at me are the one's living with their heads up their ass. I am not afraid to speak out for those that have been abused and treated like nothing more than a few lousy baht in the pocket so those of you that think I am not being fair and honest then fire away. I have many more stories I can relate to this forum. It's time for the silent majority to stand up and for those of you that are living in posh protected falang enclaves I invite you to come live out in the country away from the tourist sites for a dose of reality.

You have a very negitive view of Thailand, alot of your facts are wrong, and the only real aspect you seem to know about is the small % of women that take up work in bars.

Your idea about what goes on in the country just makes me laugh, you have no clue.

Some paragraphs would be nice too, I hope your not an english teacher.

[strabel23]

Oh really? Do divorces in the West leave people maimed and murdered?

I think the term divorce is used as a catchword on this forum. We don't know why people divorced, how many dependents are involved at the point of divorce, and whether or not the ex-spouse was completely dependent on taking care of the children and the home. There are some women who even gave up their careers or work lives to be a spouse, have children, and take care of the house. Did he or she ask for the divorce, did he leave her for another woman, did he beat her, did she cheat on him, etc.

There are many nuances and conditions to consider in the catchword "divorce". The major difference is that in SOME Western countries, women have a legal net, whereas in Thailand women have no legal frameworks to protect them. They must therefore revert to other tactics.

Further to my post yesterday I would like to add a few more insights for those of you that may be seeing Thai from a viewpoint of a posh hotel room paid for by Co. expense acct....20% of the Thai population live in the cities while the other 80% live in the country. It is here that you will discover the true Thai and their life styles. Many of you will never see this because no one would ever take you outside of the protection of a resort area. Most foreigners would not relate to you the stories I have told you because they maybe ashamed or have no access to the web. Killings are common in the countryside as no one ever believes they can obtain justice through the police or court system and I tend to agree with them. Most Thai from the country are illiterate usually completing no more than 6 years of schooling before dropping out to work on the family rice farm or looking after cows or other agricultural pursuits. The women usually marry at the age of 16 and by arranged marriage. Many times only knowing each other when they were children growing up. More often than not a young man and woman are forced to marry because they were suspected of sleeping together whether true or not. Saving face is more important than the future success or happiness of the marriage. Needless to say most of these marriages end up in divorce but since most marriages in Thailand are unofficial there is no need to go to the court. The man's family must pay a dowry when marrying consisting of money and or gold dependant only on the wealth of the families. This is the only compensation the wife receives no matter if their is children or not. Unfortunately this money is usually spent long before the marriage ends. The woman usually ends up with 2 toddlers while the husband goes on his merry way. This is why Thailand has so many prostitutes working the bars in the tourist resorts and it is not even so uncommon for a bar girl to be living with a thai husband or boyfriend and selling her pussy at the same time. Such is the mentality of the thai people. Many bar girls have regular customers that come several times a year and stay with them a month or so at a time. These clueless souls think that by sending money to their girlfriends every month that they will faithfully wait for them in their bungalow until they return. Little do they realize that as soon as the plane lifts off the girl is back in the bar lining up the next monthly paying customer. The more beautiful the girl the more likely that this is happening. Foreigners that come here think that this is paradise. What a delusion. Bar girls will get angry and threaten other bar girls with violence if for example they sleep with a foreigner and the next night when he comes back to the bar and decides to give his attention to a different girl. There is a constant jealousy happening and the foreigner does not realize that all he means to the girl is money in her pocket and all of those friendly smiles and attitudes are for one purpose only. The smart ones have many tricks they use also such as wearing very little gold or none at all and then taking their Tiluk for a walk past all the jewelery shops just for a look. Or on the last day of their stay they accompany their Tiluks to the airport for a last farewell because they know more often than not the departing falang will most likely empty his pocket and wallet of his remaining thai bht. thinking that he probably won't be back gain for awhile so in a moment of final bliss feels a softspot. Then it's quickly back to the bar again for another one. This is how many of these problems occur that end up in violence or death for foreigners. Mostly they are unwitting victims caught up in something they don't have a clue about what's going on. Many foreigners have tried to set up businesses in Patong. One rented a spot on the beach walkway and started selling silver jewelery. At first the Thai thought this was funny and laughed but when they saw that he was making money they chased him away. Another Swiss man set up a wind surfing rental on the beach. At night he locked everything up and went home. The next day when he returned all of the boards had holes punched through them. @ more swedish men bought 2 water skiddoos. They were told if they didn't leave they would be killed. They sold the skiddoos and left Thailand. I could go on and on about violence towards westerners but I think by now you should get the message. One last comment I would like to make is for western women never to go out alone at night. Recently a Welsh tourist was raped and murdered on Lamai beach in Koh Samui and a 12 year old girl was also raped 5 days ago. The german man murdered by his thai girlfriend may or may not of been a prostitute but there is a 99% probability that she was and anyone that has directed any bad comments at me are the one's living with their heads up their ass. I am not afraid to speak out for those that have been abused and treated like nothing more than a few lousy baht in the pocket so those of you that think I am not being fair and honest then fire away. I have many more stories I can relate to this forum. It's time for the silent majority to stand up and for those of you that are living in posh protected falang enclaves I invite you to come live out in the country away from the tourist sites for a dose of reality.

You have a very negitive view of Thailand, alot of your facts are wrong, and the only real aspect you seem to know about is the small % of women that take up work in bars.

Your idea about what goes on in the country just makes me laugh, you have no clue.

Some paragraphs would be nice too, I hope your not an english teacher.

This is not my idea of what goes on in this country, this is factual. Do you think I make up these stories? What is it that I have said that makes you laugh? I find nothing funny in what I said at all. This is a very serious matter. I am not alone in my experiences. Is this all you have to say. What facts do I have wrong? My posting was mostly what happens outside of the bars. If you don't believe me that's your perrogative but there will be those that will read this posting and will be forewarned and for that it is worth my time. There will always be a few that will say I am wrong but can offer nothing but their own opinion with nothing much to back it up. My German friend lives in Nakhon Si Thammarat. His daughter came to visit him last year. She says she will never return again. Are you so nieve that you block out all of the reports of foreigner abuse and discrimination. Go to Safari World. They have one sign in Thai with the entrance fee, another one in english for double. Go to the National Parks and check out how much a foreigner is now charged for entrance and how much Thai pay. In Thailand a foreigner is welcomed with a smile { if he has money} If not they have a word for you. They call you Falang Kii Nok. Do you know what this means? My wife went to the lobby of a hotel to enquire as to the price of a room. She then came back to tell me the price was reasonable and that we should check in. As soon as the receptionist saw me the price went up 30%. Do you think I have my facts wrong? I don't think so only you have a one sided view. There are many good reasons for living in Thailand otherwise I would not be here but those things do not need mentioning as most people know about them already. Are you going to critisize me for no paragraphs again? Oh no, call the principle.

[britainmal]

I have a lot of respect for Mr. Steven Roberts. This guy knows Thailand well. I have studied the Thai language, the culture, and the way Thai people think of Foreigners and I am not happy at all. To all you people that think Foreigners are running away from the West just to come here is a very ignorant way of thinking except to a few foreigners which that may be the case. If a foreigners just come to Thailand to live as an outsider, which most do they don't know what is going on here. You really need to involve yourself in Thai affairs to know what is really going on. Thai people are not agressive like the Koreans are and there are other countries which are worse than Thailand in Asia. I think all the Asian countries need social reform. We will talk about Thailand, since we only care about this country. Thailand the most open country to foreigners in Asia, but it still needs more reform and also alot of Thais are learning from other Asian nations, which is making Thailand less open. The media portrays Thailand as the best and richest country in the world. They think they are better than foreigers in culture, food ,and intelligence. I have heard this with my own ears. They also think foreigners can't learn their language because foreigners don't have Thai blood. They are the most protectionest people in the world when it comes to economics. They want to export their product to oversees markets Tariff free, but they don't want to open their economy to foreign imports. The Thai media also support this. If you use the word "Farang" in the wrong way it can be an insult to a foreigner. I hear a lot of Thais using this word in a negative way. The Thais also think they are a conserative Buddhist society and Western countries people can walk down the street nud_e. The reality is that Thailand is a Buddhist country , but not a conserative Buddhist country. The sex industry here runs like a candy store and I see all classes of Thai society dress in clad clothing including the infamous university girls outfit. I am not against girls dressing like this, but the Thai people should stop living in denial. A lot of Thais also think that most foreigners are hear to have sex with prostitutes. Alot of these people are Thais with a lot of money. We are only hear to make them rich they think. How many rich Thais are with foreigners versus the poor Thais. The answer is the majority is with poor Thais. Don't get me wrong I like it here, but I have blended into their culture that does not mean I am trying to be Thai either. I wish sometimes I did not know this and was ignorant just like a tourist to Thailand. I am not in Thailand to run away from the West, so everybody should stop using that excuse. The final issue I want to talk about is the double pricing standards. I know I will not visit DREAM WORLD for sure. The poor Thais that shop in Siam Paragon get a 50 percent discount and the rich foreigners get to pay the full price. How ignornat is that. This factual opinion is to make everybody aware that behind Thailand's smile is a grim.

[Patex]

Hi SR, From your and your friends negative adjusted view you are right to the point - take good care for you, as people with such a mental attitude are the predestined victims. Keep smiling , Patex

[britainmal]

I am telling the truth not making a negative view. If you get yourself involved in Thailand more, than you will see. If you just want to be the outsider or tourist than you will be very happy here.

Eyewitness: Thai media intimidation

The authorities were criticised for their handling of the Takbai incident

As violence continues to sweep southern Thailand, journalists are also suffering, says the BBC's Nualnoi Thammasathien, who writes here of the intimidation she has met with as a result of her reports.

I was reporting in Thailand at the time of the Takbai incident on 25 October, in which protesters were piled on top of each other in military trucks, and 78 of them died, many from suffocation.

Two weeks later, still in the country, I was surfing the airwaves when I suddenly heard a programme mentioning the BBC.

I heard the two male presenters talk about how the media could undermine the country in a time of crisis.

The next thing I heard was them mentioning my name as a journalist who had done damage to national unity with my 'unpatriotic reports' on the incident.

'She has interviewed people whom she shouldn't have interviewed,' said one of the presenters, a freelancer who had hired airtime on a national radio channel which belongs to the Thai parliament.

I assume they were referring to my attempts to talk, not just to government officials and Buddhists, but to Muslims in the south, whom the authorities regard as being at the heart of the violence.

The presenters invited their audience to write to and call the BBC to complain about me and my reports

Nualnoi Thammasathien

They did not discuss any of my reports in detail, nor did they elaborate on the weaknesses or faults in them. I found it absurd for someone to criticise another's work without giving a shred of evidence.

But they did give their audience some information about my background, saying that after I had worked as a reporter in the country for some time, I 'fled the country', apparently for no particular reason.

They even mentioned, casually: 'Well, we do quite understand it really. Since she took the money from the outsiders she has to do it.'

This was a serious accusation, since for many people, taking money from outsiders in order to act in an unpatriotic fashion is tantamount to a crime against the nation.

Arranging a protest

The presenters invited their audience to write to and call the BBC to complain about me and my reports. They gave out what they thought were the BBC's telephone numbers, but apparently they got them wrong.

They also criticised human rights activists, the UN and those senators who have tried to investigate the Takbai incident.

Then the presenters and the listeners who called into the programme discussed how to arrange a protest against any representative of the UN who would want to visit Thailand to investigate the incident.

The tone of the programme sounded very extreme. It reminded me of the atmosphere leading up to the massacre of student activists at Thammasat University in October 1976, when soldiers killed students whom they thought were a communist threat.

And, to my horror, the presenters also stated clearly to their listeners that I was in fact staying in the country "at this moment"'.

To me, that was a clear case of intimidation.

But many other reporters are also in a difficult position. Some have responded with self-censorship, for example by suddenly switching their focus from the suffering of Thai Muslims to the suffering of Thai Buddhists, or by simply burying reports well within the inside pages.

They [southern Muslims] deserve to die. They're the ones who do the routine hit and run killing and then hide behind their sarongs.

Bangkok taxi driver

Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has also reportedly threatened to have anyone disseminating the video footage of the detention of 1,300 Muslim protesters on the day of the Takbai incident arrested.

Some of those who have seen the video say it contains brutal and humiliating scenes of the security forces handling the detainees.

A number of people tried to organise a public showing of the video, but were told by the authorities to cancel their plans. An opposition politician, Thanin Jaisamut, who has done so, has been called in for questioning by the police.

Thai officials insist the video has been manipulated to make it appear that the soldiers brutally suppressed the protesters - and that is why the authorities have had to ban it.

Changing attitudes

But banning the video is only part of a wider attempt to stop the public from searching for the truth.

On the very day of the Takbai incident, a senior army commander in charge of the operation to disperse the protest told local reporters that they needed to keep the news among themselves.

As a result of all this, Muslims in the south are gaining a new kind of image.

"They [southern Muslims] deserve to die," a taxi driver in Bangkok told me. "They're the ones who do the routine hit and run killing and then hide behind their sarongs."

I have heard many other members of the Thai public express similar views.

Such hardening attitudes will certainly play into the hands of extremists like those who singled out my name in their radio programme.

This was taken fron the BBC NEWS. Please read it and give me your opinion on this issue. Thank You!

Edited January 8, 2006 by britainmal

[Patex]

BBC NEWS? I'm impressed!

[Richard Hall]

To the foreign know all about Thailand bashers

I am not an outsider and I am not a tourist. My family is Thai, my friends are Thais, I live and work in a Thai society, communicate in Thai at a 95% level all day and I am not pampered to death by a foreign sponsor. Came here with a tourist visa and a very small handful of bucks and established a living backed and assisted by Thais. Some of the most trustworthy people in my life have Thai nationality.

One day I hope to put the cherry on the cake and acquire Thai citizenship and if this materializes I am going to be most honoured.

Please don't take a p... on my Thai friends and family and the majority of Thais who are decent people and my home country of choice pretending you know at all and have got the big picture. Well, you learnt about the language and the culture but forget an important issue. Try to feel a little bit Thai and pay a little respect rather than featuring a naughty wise ass attitude shedding some bad lights on all foreigners.

Much appreciated.

Richard

[strabel23]

To the foreign know all about Thailand bashers

I am not an outsider and I am not a tourist. My family is Thai, my friends are Thais, I live and work in a Thai society, communicate in Thai at a 95% level all day and I am not pampered to death by a foreign sponsor. Came here with a tourist visa and a very small handful of bucks and established a living backed and assisted by Thais. Some of the most trustworthy people in my life have Thai nationality.

One day I hope to put the cherry on the cake and acquire Thai citizenship and if this materializes I am going to be most honoured.

Please don't take a p... on my Thai friends and family and the majority of Thais who are decent people and my home country of choice pretending you know at all and have got the big picture. Well, you learnt about the language and the culture but forget an important issue. Try to feel a little bit Thai and pay a little respect rather than featuring a naughty wise ass attitude shedding some bad lights on all foreigners.

Much appreciated.

Richard

When foreigners are being raped and murdered you want everyone to be quiet and show some respect? Tell that to the family holidaying in Koh Samui that had their 12 year old daughter raped by a worker employed by the very resort they were staying in?I will do everything I can to protect my family and friends and any other foreigner that happens along. Where is your support for your fellow countrymen and expatriates. I have met many genuinely friendly foreigners on my visa runs to Penang and it's always been a nice experience. Unfortunately one time a young lady that was on the bus travelling alone was the last one to be dropped off. Instead of though the driver took her somewhere else where he attempted to accost her and she managed to escape but without her baggage. She came to me for help to try to retrieve her belongings but of course the driver had fled back to Thailand. I was able to contact the Tour company office where she had purchased her ticket and after threatening them with going to the police they agreed to send the baggage in the morn. on the next bus. You apparently are a rare exception and are living in an isolated environment. Try to be a little bit more compassionate to your fellow foreign visitors and expatriates and that would be much appreciated. Yes there are a lot of Thai that are good and for them we don't have to worry, but everyone should be made aware of the dangers in Thailand so that we can minimize the occurences of violence that are beginning to give this country a bad reputation.