UPDATE 1 -- U.S. soldier goes on shooting spree, kills 16 Afghan civilians

[volk666]

The "payback" for 9/11 cost twice as much in American lives than the terrorist attack itself, and that's before counting hundreds of thousands of apparently worthless Iraqi and Afghani lives.

I put payback in quotation marks because it's not clear who it was intended for, they just paybacked everybody including themselves.

[Ulysses G.]

I assume they are still 'draining the swamp' in the immortal words of Dubya.

I also have to remind you that bin Laden was only taken out last May.

just because you drank the Kool-Aid you mustn't assume others on this forum

did the same

Some of them seem to have indulged in Electric Kool-aid instead. .

Edited March 15, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[maidu]

is there death penalty for multiple murders within the US military legal system? If so, the guy (if found guilty) is ripe for it. They should let a family member of one of the killed children pull the trigger.

[Steely Dan]

My very first comment about this tragedy was that it would receive less condemnation in Afghanistan than the accidental burning of Qurans. Well here we have it confirmed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/15/world/asia/disconnect-clear-in-us-bafflement-over-2-afghan-responses.html?_r=3&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120315=

KABUL, Afghanistan — The mullah was astounded and a little angered to be asked why the accidental burning of Korans last month could provoke violence nationwide, while an intentional mass murder that included nine children last Sunday did not.

You couldn't make it up if you tried.

[chuckd]

is there death penalty for multiple murders within the US military legal system? If so, the guy (if found guilty) is ripe for it. They should let a family member of one of the killed children pull the trigger.

The death penalty is a possibility for any murder, much less multiple.

By the way, executions are not carried out by gunshot. Lethal injections are the current methods in use.

[maiphedmaiaroi]

Killed nine children.

He deserves the death penalty in afganistan.

What a horrific crime.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[maidu]

No excuses. He was a professional soldier. I'm an American and am saddened that one of my countrymen did that heinous crime. Death penalty.

There must have been prior indications/threats by the murderer - at his base. Surely someone with such extreme intentions must have told some others. Top brass at the base should cut meals to everyone (including themselves) there for 1 day, and cancel 'leave.' One week's pay from all the soldiers' should be confiscated and given to the grieving families as a token for their losses. Perhaps the US solders at the base might then reflect a bit on the despicable act of one of their comrades.

[Ulysses G.]

No excuses. He was a professional soldier. I'm an American and am saddened that one of my countrymen did that heinous crime. Death penalty.

I agree with this part of the post - not the rest. It is very unlikely that the other soldiers had any idea that he was going to go postal.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[flying]

There must have been prior indications/threats by the murderer - at his base. Surely someone with such extreme intentions must have told some others.

You would be surprised these days to see how many working soldiers are on meds in the field.

I do not have time to look for the article now but it stated that the US Military has taken a jump on providing the stress disorder drugs to

soldiers still in the field rather than waiting till they return home.

When i read it my first thought was how crazy that seems.....If they need drugs they need to put the weapon down & go home now.

[Steely Dan]

There must have been prior indications/threats by the murderer - at his base. Surely someone with such extreme intentions must have told some others.

You make a good point, however it is possible that in the aftermath of 28 people being killed because of the accidental burning of korans that feelings were running pretty high amongst a good number of troops, so singling out one who was a danger might have been difficult, still this aspect should be investigated. The case of Nidal Hasan the Fort Hood murderer was a case in point where there were clear signs of extremist views which both his superiors and the FBI had been informed of but no action was taken.

Edited March 17, 2012 by Steely Dan

[luckyluke]

Up to 20 US troops behind Kandahar bloodbath – Afghan probe

http://rt.com/news/massacre-kandahar-soldier-american-705/

!!!!!!

[Credo]

It's an interesting link. I hope others weren't involved.

If this was the act of a lone soldier, he may well have suffered a psychotic break. There should have been indications that he was under an unmanageable level of stress. He probably wouldn't have much success with the insanity plea because he would have to show that he was unable to distinguish right from wrong.

[Ulysses G.]

Up to 20 US troops behind Kandahar bloodbath – Afghan probe

http://rt.com/news/m...r-american-705/

!!!!!!

RT News - owned by Russia - is chock full of inaccurate conspiracy theories.

[volk666]

Up to 20 US troops behind Kandahar bloodbath – Afghan probe

http://rt.com/news/m...r-american-705/

!!!!!!

RT News - owned by Russia - is chock full of inaccurate conspiracy theories.

Those are mostly quotes from Afghan officials, though.

The link to a British source on the first page of this thread expresses the same doubts about one man being responsible. The houses were two kilometers apart, after all.

At this point it looks like the news agency choke full of conspiracy theories is more useful than news agencies publishing/repeating outright lies from US military sources.

Questions arises - if they insist it was one man while knowing that the whole unit went rogue and massacred women and children in cold blood, what punishment will they dish out to the selected scapegoat? And what about his friends? Dishonorable discharge? Cut in military pension? For murdering children?

It's just gets sicker and sicker everyday.

The whole concept of "justice" is simply inapplicable there.

Edited March 17, 2012 by volk666

[flying]

Massacre As Metaphor

[maidu]

re; 'Insanity plea' ....he'll probably get some sort of reprieve using that (life instead of death).

US authorities should be ruthless in finding out every aspect of this atrocity, (how many involved, who heard anything prior, etc). ......and come down firmly in retribution. No soft-peddling.

If some US soldiers can't handle the stress, then they're unfit for the job - get rid of 'em.

Edited March 17, 2012 by maidu

[GentlemanJim]

No excuses. He was a professional soldier. I'm an American and am saddened that one of my countrymen did that heinous crime. Death penalty. There must have been prior indications/threats by the murderer - at his base. Surely someone with such extreme intentions must have told some others. Top brass at the base should cut meals to everyone (including themselves) there for 1 day, and cancel 'leave.' One week's pay from all the soldiers' should be confiscated and given to the grieving families as a token for their losses. Perhaps the US solders at the base might then reflect a bit on the despicable act of one of their comrades.

Well the thing is you see, this is not new is it. The issue now is that communications are instant and it is difficult to hide this stuff (shame there were no mobiles at Tonkin and Liberty). Why do you want to punish all the other soldiers? And if so what punishment would you have dished out to Charlie Company and then the rest of their battalion for the My Lai massacre in Vietnam in which 350-500 women and young children were slaughtered at close quarters?

(By the way, if as you suggest the Top Brass cut meals and salaries in a war zone, then they might find that they are next at the end of a gun barrel so it's probably not a good idea really) You seem to consider that you have to starve soldiers and penalise the welfare of their families back home in order for them to reflect on a despicable act! How do you know they are not already doing that?

[flying]

re; 'Insanity plea' ....he'll probably get some sort of reprieve using that (life instead of death).

That article I posted said the same with reason..........

Defense chieftain Leon Panetta made a special trip to Afghanistan hoping to tamp down the furor, telling reporters the killer could receive the death penalty but I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were him. That may be the verdict that bests serves justice, as well as the national interest, but the self-justifying pop-psychology that rules the national consciousness will win out in the end, of that you can be sure. The last thing the Obama administration wants is to make a hero out of this murderous maniac, which is precisely what would happen if prosecutors sought the death penalty.

[GentlemanJim]

re; 'Insanity plea' ....he'll probably get some sort of reprieve using that (life instead of death). US authorities should be ruthless in finding out every aspect of this atrocity, (how many involved, who heard anything prior, etc). ......and come down firmly in retribution. No soft-peddling. If some US soldiers can't handle the stress, then they're unfit for the job - get rid of 'em.

You really need to stop now, your comments are displaying that you know little or nothing about the military. You are also under some disillusion that the chain of command for this atrocity is fairly short. Responsibility goes all the way to the Commander in Chief, and that's a fact. If you conduct the same witch hunt for every bit of military indiscipline there would be no commanders and very few soldiers left.

I imagine with your last sentence you condoned the murder of 360 odd young British lads in WW1 who were all shot for cowardice. The fact that these 15 and 16 year old boys were gibbering wrecks, often having been exposed to 7 day continuous (yes continuous) artillery bombardments. I dont think you have any idea what it is like to be under live fire and involved in close quarter combat, otherwise you would not post the words that you do.

[maidu]

No excuses. He was a professional soldier. I'm an American and am saddened that one of my countrymen did that heinous crime. Death penalty. There must have been prior indications/threats by the murderer - at his base. Surely someone with such extreme intentions must have told some others. Top brass at the base should cut meals to everyone (including themselves) there for 1 day, and cancel 'leave.' One week's pay from all the soldiers' should be confiscated and given to the grieving families as a token for their losses. Perhaps the US solders at the base might then reflect a bit on the despicable act of one of their comrades.

Well the thing is you see, this is not new is it. The issue now is that communications are instant and it is difficult to hide this stuff (shame there were no mobiles at Tonkin and Liberty). Why do you want to punish all the other soldiers? And if so what punishment would you have dished out to Charlie Company and then the rest of their battalion for the My Lai massacre in Vietnam in which 350-500 women and young children were slaughtered at close quarters?

(By the way, if as you suggest the Top Brass cut meals and salaries in a war zone, then they might find that they are next at the end of a gun barrel so it's probably not a good idea really) You seem to consider that you have to starve soldiers and penalise the welfare of their families back home in order for them to reflect on a despicable act! How do you know they are not already doing that?

I stand by my suggestions. Your responses are speculations and comparisons to different situations that happened decades ago. Actually, in the case of My Lai, I would have harshly disciplined the troops there also. If I was top brass in a military outfit I would run a tight ship. If I noticed any subordinates were cracking under the strain I would get them transferred to some place where they couldn't cause harm to innocents. I wouldn't shirk on discipline - under fear of being confronted by their ire or weapons. Perhaps that's why things are screwing up so dramatically for US troops in Afghanistan. Maybe it's because their top brass are going soft.

I understand it can be extremely stressful being in combat. Yet these are professional soldiers, and that's part of the job description. If they can't handle the stress, they should be in a different line of work.

Edited March 17, 2012 by maidu

[volk666]

What if it was indeed the work of 15-20 soldiers?

There's no way the military will admit to that, so far it's been confined to the findings of Afghanis and news outlets like "Russia Today" so it's as good as it has never happened, but if these findings break out in the open and US media has no choice but to report them, what will happen then? Perhaps Al Jazeera and a couple of UK newspapers will start the crack in the information war, perhaps not, but if Karzai himself goes public it will be impossible to hide.

Even that highly critical blog linked on the previous page assumes it was one guy who went into two houses then collected the bodies and tried to burn them. Two houses two kilometers apart. That just doesn't compute.

[maidu]

Several news sites now reporting that Afghani investigators are saying up to 20 US servicemen were in on the massacre.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds, and how much truth will come forth, and how much restitution will be given to the families of those killed.

worldundercontrol.com

[maidu]

re; 'Insanity plea' ....he'll probably get some sort of reprieve using that (life instead of death). US authorities should be ruthless in finding out every aspect of this atrocity, (how many involved, who heard anything prior, etc). ......and come down firmly in retribution. No soft-peddling. If some US soldiers can't handle the stress, then they're unfit for the job - get rid of 'em.

You really need to stop now, your comments are displaying that you know little or nothing about the military. You are also under some disillusion that the chain of command for this atrocity is fairly short. Responsibility goes all the way to the Commander in Chief, and that's a fact. If you conduct the same witch hunt for every bit of military indiscipline there would be no commanders and very few soldiers left.

I imagine with your last sentence you condoned the murder of 360 odd young British lads in WW1 who were all shot for cowardice. The fact that these 15 and 16 year old boys were gibbering wrecks, often having been exposed to 7 day continuous (yes continuous) artillery bombardments. I dont think you have any idea what it is like to be under live fire and involved in close quarter combat, otherwise you would not post the words that you do.

If I support one thing, don't assume I support something else with some similarities. This is the first I heard about the 360 young British boys. Keep your speculation objective or keep it to yourself.

[volk666]

Google: "They were all drunk and shooting all over the place," Reuters cites Agha Lala and you'll find it repeated everywhere, here's the source:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/11/us-afghanistan-usa-witnesses-idUSBRE82A0A420120311

If you search for "Reuters Afghan shooting", on the other hand, it's all "one man did it" story at least on the first page.

Not saying it's manipulated but it's not kosher either.

[volk666]

And here's BBC sticking to "one man" party line and giving only one sentence to "repeated Afghan assertions".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17411009

Perfect case study of two alternate news universes emerging.

[GentlemanJim]

re; 'Insanity plea' ....he'll probably get some sort of reprieve using that (life instead of death). US authorities should be ruthless in finding out every aspect of this atrocity, (how many involved, who heard anything prior, etc). ......and come down firmly in retribution. No soft-peddling. If some US soldiers can't handle the stress, then they're unfit for the job - get rid of 'em.

You really need to stop now, your comments are displaying that you know little or nothing about the military. You are also under some disillusion that the chain of command for this atrocity is fairly short. Responsibility goes all the way to the Commander in Chief, and that's a fact. If you conduct the same witch hunt for every bit of military indiscipline there would be no commanders and very few soldiers left.

I imagine with your last sentence you condoned the murder of 360 odd young British lads in WW1 who were all shot for cowardice. The fact that these 15 and 16 year old boys were gibbering wrecks, often having been exposed to 7 day continuous (yes continuous) artillery bombardments. I dont think you have any idea what it is like to be under live fire and involved in close quarter combat, otherwise you would not post the words that you do.

If I support one thing, don't assume I support something else with some similarities. This is the first I heard about the 360 young British boys. Keep your speculation objective or keep it to yourself.

I think the same good then be said about you Maidu, with your speculations of capital punishment before someone has even gone on trial. As you now see, if you guys would have hung the soldier from the nearest tree when given the chance, a week later there is news coming out that portrays a whole different story.

[Steely Dan]

Actually from the following article I suspect the media has covered up no fewer than 7 American soldiers killed by their so called Afghan allies, the fact that such incidents were not even reported for what they were must have left the troops angry and feeling betrayed. To repeat, I'm not condoning this murder in any way shape or form, but a picture of what may have contributed to 'vigilante justice' is starting to emerge.

An Afghan soldier shot to death a 22-year-old Marine at an outpost in southwestern Afghanistan last month in a previously undisclosed case of apparent Afghan treachery that marked at least the seventh killing of an American military member by his supposed ally in the past six weeks, Marine officials said.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/16/marine-killed-by-afghan-soldier-last-month-officials-say/#ixzz1pLxQ5aqk

[Exsexyman]

What if it was indeed the work of 15-20 soldiers?

There's no way the military will admit to that, so far it's been confined to the findings of Afghanis and news outlets like "Russia Today" so it's as good as it has never happened, but if these findings break out in the open and US media has no choice but to report them, what will happen then? Perhaps Al Jazeera and a couple of UK newspapers will start the crack in the information war, perhaps not, but if Karzai himself goes public it will be impossible to hide.

Even that highly critical blog linked on the previous page assumes it was one guy who went into two houses then collected the bodies and tried to burn them. Two houses two kilometers apart. That just doesn't compute.

Here is US veterans today's take on it. Very disturbing reading.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/03/11/murder-in-afghanistan-the-coverup-begins/

[chuckd]

What if it was indeed the work of 15-20 soldiers?

There's no way the military will admit to that, so far it's been confined to the findings of Afghanis and news outlets like "Russia Today" so it's as good as it has never happened, but if these findings break out in the open and US media has no choice but to report them, what will happen then? Perhaps Al Jazeera and a couple of UK newspapers will start the crack in the information war, perhaps not, but if Karzai himself goes public it will be impossible to hide.

Even that highly critical blog linked on the previous page assumes it was one guy who went into two houses then collected the bodies and tried to burn them. Two houses two kilometers apart. That just doesn't compute.

Here is US veterans today's take on it. Very disturbing reading.

http://www.veteranst...coverup-begins/

Just another politically motivated hit piece...

Lifted from the link.

_____________________________________________________

HOLY WARRIORS OR HELLISH GHOULS?

Next we can ask, what kind of person does this? That I can clearly answer, this is the act of someone with strong religious and political beliefs. Years ago, initially Pentecostal and then broader Dominionist/Dispensationalist theologies under the broader term of “Christian Evangelism” has been behind the atrocities.

Some are tied to doomsday cults, others toward “racial cleansing” and more fall under the influence of politicians.

Those currently are Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum.

Previously, they were the entire Bush administration, which used communist “brainwashing” techniques on troops to encourage them to torture and kill as part of their patriotic and religious duty.

These messages were instilled during training and continually reinforced through televised psyop sessions on the Armed Forces Network and Pentagon Channel.

Such rhetoric has largely disappeared during the Obama administration with the exception of that which is normally part of the daily broadcasts on Fox News with its extremist pundits.