Lpg

[jji23]

Hi

I have a new 5 door 1.6 Ford Fiesta. I'm pretty certain that I want to install LPG. I average about 4000 baht per month on petrol, and what with petrol forever increasing will soon be more.

I have been to a local installer, him/his shop were very presentable and professional looking. In fact there was another 5 door fiesta in there which had just finished its installation. He suggested that I install the doughnut tank which fits in where the spare wheel is under the boot, with the spare wheel moved into the boot. Which is fine by me.

The cost to install the LPG system and doughnut tank was 23,000 baht. Which to me (I don't really know that much about LPG) seems reasonable.

I just wanted to know if anyone on here has ever installed LPG on smaller hatchback cars, and what the experience was like?

Some people have suggested that its good, but over time does damage to the engine, is this true?

Also how much could I realistically save? If I'm paying 1000 baht per week on petrol.

Lastly, Ford told me that my warranty will be void once I install LPG, which I'm not too bothered about as long as I'm still covered by my insurance, I take it my insurance (viriyah) will cover me!

Thanks for any info.

[PattayaParent]

"Also how much could I realistically save? If I'm paying 1000 baht per week on petrol."

You need to know how many kms you do on a tank of petrol for that 1,000 Baht and how many kms you will do on a tank of LPG and how much that will cost.

[culicine]

I'd also ask ford how much a new set of values costs, and possible head work. LPG runs hot and is not so compatible with many modern 4 pot engines. Having said that my brother in law has lpg on his crv, with about 60K kms with no problems. The system you quote is cheap - top systems can cost about 40K. Just make sure it can be well tuned, as poor tuning can accelerate any likely damage. There are also "flash lube" kits that can help protect the valves - ask the installer about that too. So you need to consider possible costs compared to how much you will save running lpg, to know if it is worth it or not. For me, I'd keep my warranty and only convert only after the warranty has expired.

[PattayaParent]

^40k was the price I remember seeing quoted on TV a couple of years ago.

[VocalNeal]

How big is the doughnut tank? Where does the spare fit after? How many kms per week?

[WarpSpeed]

Have to say I wouldn't throw away my warrantee either, what has having insurance for accidents to do with your warrantee? What insurance are you talking about that's going to cover premature part failures from the manufacturer?

As for more expensive systems yes there are and one additional cost for them is a larger tank but also multiport injection systems so which one was the estimate for? Did it include a multiport injection system likely on the Fiesta but not necessarily..

[PattayaParent]

How big is the doughnut tank? Where does the spare fit after? How many kms per week?

In the boot.

On a previous thread one poster was getting 350 kms on a tank costing 500 Baht to fill with LPG. I was getting 700 kms on a tank costing 1,100 Baht to fill with Gasohol 91. Not much of a saving in my opinion, certainly not worth the conversion costs of 40,000 Baht.

A full tank of Gasohol 91 now costs me 1,500 Baht and still getting 700kms per tank. What is the price of LPG now? I vaguely remember they were removing the subsidy and it was to increase from 11 Baht to 17 Baht?

[WarpSpeed]

How big is the doughnut tank? Where does the spare fit after? How many kms per week?

In the boot.

On a previous thread one poster was getting 350 kms on a tank costing 500 Baht to fill with LPG. I was getting 700 kms on a tank costing 1,100 Baht to fill with Gasohol 91. Not much of a saving in my opinion, certainly not worth the conversion costs of 40,000 Baht.

A full tank of Gasohol 91 now costs me 1,500 Baht and still getting 700kms per tank. What is the price of LPG now? I vaguely remember they were removing the subsidy and it was to increase from 11 Baht to 17 Baht?

It ranges between 11.90 and 12.50 depending on where you purchase it and it may or may not come with a free bottle or bottles of water for that price.The station I primarily use also has nice little discount ticket box that you can win a free tank full and other discounts by drawing a ticket after your fill, they reimburse you in cash it's small nice give away but could be a real winner if you win the free fill up..

As I've said before, I wouldn't purchase a system especially if it's on a newer more efficient car that can use alternate fuels with less issues and is going to void my warrantee which could be a far greater loss in the end. IMO it's only a real win when you purchase the car with it already with the previous owner having absorbed the installation costs already.

[VocalNeal]

In the boot.

I asked because the OP has a 5 door. Ie hatchback.

Based on what the OP said spending 1000 baht on fuel an averaged fuel consumption for a 1.6 Fiesta of 16.5 km/l and the relative price of E10 91 and LPG. I calculate it will take the OP 48 months to recoup the 23,000.

On the other hand my truck with 100,000kms on, entirely on LPG, has saved roughly about 150,000 Bath or 40% the price of the truck because at highway speeds it drinks petrol. So even if LPG goes up it was still worth it.

[PattayaParent]

In the boot.

I asked because the OP has a 5 door. Ie hatchback.

Based on what the OP said spending 1000 baht on fuel an averaged fuel consumption for a 1.6 Fiesta of 16.5 km/l and the relative price of E10 91 and LPG. I calculate it will take the OP 48 months to recoup the 23,000.

On the other hand my truck with 100,000kms on, entirely on LPG, has saved roughly about 150,000 Bath or 40% the price of the truck because at highway speeds it drinks petrol. So even if LPG goes up it was still worth it.

The OP said "He suggested that I install the doughnut tank which fits in where the spare wheel is under the boot, with the spare wheel moved into the boot. Which is fine by me"

So the price of LPG didn't go up significantly then which should still give him around 350kms per 500 Baht? But of course for the first 3 years / 100,000kms he can't get the free service from Ford if his warranty is void so has to add that as extra cost and after 4 years is probably looking to get a new vehicle anyway so he's not really saved anything. As Warpspeed said, it's the next purchaser that will get the benefit if the valves / engine are not shot.

And if the conversion ends up costing 40,000 Baht it's really a non-starter?

[jji23]

The main reason I wanted to install LPG was for the savings I would make on petrol per month. I ESTIMATED that I would be spending 2000baht on petrol and LPG per month, a saving of 50% and that I would recoup it in 2 years. Perhaps not!

I'm starting to feel like the warranty would be too much of a big thing to lose. Also, if I am losing the warranty I would want the best system (45k) so it would hardly be worth it in the long run.

It's just pulling into get petrol and seeing 91 35 baht, LPG 11 baht etc and automatically assuming there's a big saving to be had.

Any other efficient ideas? CNG?

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[jji23]

Have to say I wouldn't throw away my warrantee either, what has having insurance for accidents to do with your warrantee? What insurance are you talking about that's going to cover premature part failures from the manufacturer?

As for more expensive systems yes there are and one additional cost for them is a larger tank but also multiport injection systems so which one was the estimate for? Did it include a multiport injection system likely on the Fiesta but not necessarily..

I meant to say that I was worried my insurance would be void too.

[jji23]

Have to say I wouldn't throw away my warrantee either, what has having insurance for accidents to do with your warrantee? What insurance are you talking about that's going to cover premature part failures from the manufacturer?

As for more expensive systems yes there are and one additional cost for them is a larger tank but also multiport injection systems so which one was the estimate for? Did it include a multiport injection system likely on the Fiesta but not necessarily..

The list of tanks+systems were in Thai. The one I looked at was one of the cheaper systems so I'd guess that it wasn't a multiport injection system. The top system was around 45k.

[PattayaParent]

Wow, thanks for all the Info. I think the next step for me is to work out how many km I do on 1000 baht

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Just watch the pump next time you fill up but if you're using Gasohol 91 then you're putting in about 26 litres for that cost (38.5 per litre) which doesn't seem to be anywhere near a full tank unless they're small in the Fiesta?

Edit: according to their website specs it says the tank is 43 litres which should cost you 1,600 Baht to fill.

[jji23]

Wow, thanks for all the Info. I think the next step for me is to work out how many km I do on 1000 baht

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

Just watch the pump next time you fill up but if you're using Gasohol 91 then you're putting in about 26 litres for that cost (38.5 per litre) which doesn't seem to be anywhere near a full tank unless they're small in the Fiesta?

Edit: according to their website specs it says the tank is 43 litres which should cost you 1,600 Baht to fill.

Apologies I didn't mean 1000 baht = full tank, just meant that's what I get/use per week.

[VocalNeal]

Also, if I am losing the warranty I would want the best system (45k)

If one is both trying to help the environment and save money by conversion to LPG why would one want the most expensive conversion. Seems counter intuitive to me.

[WarpSpeed]

Have to say I wouldn't throw away my warrantee either, what has having insurance for accidents to do with your warrantee? What insurance are you talking about that's going to cover premature part failures from the manufacturer?

As for more expensive systems yes there are and one additional cost for them is a larger tank but also multiport injection systems so which one was the estimate for? Did it include a multiport injection system likely on the Fiesta but not necessarily..

The list of tanks+systems were in Thai. The one I looked at was one of the cheaper systems so I'd guess that it wasn't a multiport injection system. The top system was around 45k.

Ok that explains a lot as it will also detune your car with air restriction at the intake and CNG would be even worse in terms of savings as it gets worse mileage per liter then does LP so also need a larger tank for the same amount of distance and also less stations out of the mainstream locales.

[WarpSpeed]

Also, if I am losing the warranty I would want the best system (45k)

If one is both trying to help the environment and save money by conversion to LPG why would one want the most expensive conversion. Seems counter intuitive to me.

There's truth in that as the most expensive version also uses the multiport system which actually uses more of both fuels because it increases the cars LP performance due to fuel delivery and no intake restriction...

[JeffreyMcCollum]

How big is the doughnut tank? Where does the spare fit after? How many kms per week?

In the boot.

On a previous thread one poster was getting 350 kms on a tank costing 500 Baht to fill with LPG. I was getting 700 kms on a tank costing 1,100 Baht to fill with Gasohol 91. Not much of a saving in my opinion, certainly not worth the conversion costs of 40,000 Baht.

A full tank of Gasohol 91 now costs me 1,500 Baht and still getting 700kms per tank. What is the price of LPG now? I vaguely remember they were removing the subsidy and it was to increase from 11 Baht to 17 Baht?

You get nearly 18 kpl based on your figures. What do you drive ? With LPG slightly less than 1/3 the cost, your fuel cost will be 1/3

[JeffreyMcCollum]

I have a factory CNG truck with full factory warrenty

With Petrol I get 9 kpl

with CNG I average 11 but have gotten as high as 13

With CNG I average 80 stang per km

with pertol it is just under 4 baht per km

I drive alot and figure I will have a free truck on my savings after 4 years

[PattayaParent]

How big is the doughnut tank? Where does the spare fit after? How many kms per week?

In the boot.

On a previous thread one poster was getting 350 kms on a tank costing 500 Baht to fill with LPG. I was getting 700 kms on a tank costing 1,100 Baht to fill with Gasohol 91. Not much of a saving in my opinion, certainly not worth the conversion costs of 40,000 Baht.

A full tank of Gasohol 91 now costs me 1,500 Baht and still getting 700kms per tank. What is the price of LPG now? I vaguely remember they were removing the subsidy and it was to increase from 11 Baht to 17 Baht?

You get nearly 18 kpl based on your figures. What do you drive ? With LPG slightly less than 1/3 the cost, your fuel cost will be 1/3

You mean I wil save 1/3 to go the same distance.

I drive a manual Vios.

You can also get factory LPG vehicles, I saw a Chevrolet saloon today and there's a few CNG saloons around as well.

[zzSleepyJohn]

We converted a 2nd hand Honda Jazz to LPG about 4 years ago at a cost of ~35K and drove only about 25K kms with it, which wasn't enough to make the excercise economically worthwhile.

Here are some very approximate figures:

Average price of petrol over the last 4 years = 30baht/litre

Average price of LPG over the last 4 years = 11baht/litre

My rough guess for petrol = 18kms/litre

My guess for LPG = 14kms/litre

Theoretical cost of petrol would have been (25K/18) x 30 = 42K baht

Actual cost of LPG used was approx (25K/14) x 11 = 20K baht

Total cost of LPG + conversion = 20K + 35K = 55K baht

So we lost about 13K baht by going down the LPG route

We would have had to drive approx 40k kms on LPG to break even

[funcat]

We converted a 2nd hand Honda Jazz to LPG about 4 years ago at a cost of ~35K and drove only about 25K kms with it, which wasn't enough to make the excercise economically worthwhile.

Here are some very approximate figures:

Average price of petrol over the last 4 years = 30baht/litre

Average price of LPG over the last 4 years = 11baht/litre

My rough guess for petrol = 18kms/litre

My guess for LPG = 14kms/litre

Theoretical cost of petrol would have been (25K/18) x 30 = 42K baht

Actual cost of LPG used was approx (25K/14) x 11 = 20K baht

Total cost of LPG + conversion = 20K + 35K = 55K baht

So we lost about 13K baht by going down the LPG route

We would have had to drive approx 40k kms on LPG to break even

In your case it was not economical,but an average car will go 20K km/year and many drive much more...

[zzSleepyJohn]

Fair comment, funcat. Don't get me wrong, Despite the above I'm actually quite a strong advocate of LPG. Environmentally cleaner, and less middle-eastern aggro associated with it compared to benzine and diesel.

But what are the latest up-to-date expectations for LPG in Thailand? Are we expecting the government to simply remove their subsidy on it, or do we think they're they going to tax it up to the same price as benzine so that LPG motoring goes completely out of the window here? I wonder what figures to guess for the prices of benzine and LPG in my above calculations if I do them for the next 4 years.

We're in the throes of buying a new small hatchback just now, and wondering if we can justify installing LPG again on that. If I thought we could just about break even on it, I'd be prepared to go for it solely on its environmental and anti-war aggro merits.

[black fox]

i converted my fiesta 1.6 s after doing about 8000 kms ive now done 16000 kms, it exactly the same mileage as it did on petrol i used to put 1,100 bahts worth of petrol in now put 410 baht for the same mileage, cost for conversion was 25,000 baht saving me 3,000 baht per month so i estimate covering my outlay in a little over 8 months, after taking advice from an engineer i decided to risk ditching the engine warranty, the car goes just as well on lpg as petrol, regarding the valves time will tell whether i did right or not, altogether im very pleased with perfomance and everything else about the fiesta.

[funcat]

Fair comment, funcat. Don't get me wrong, Despite the above I'm actually quite a strong advocate of LPG. Environmentally cleaner, and less middle-eastern aggro associated with it compared to benzine and diesel.

But what are the latest up-to-date expectations for LPG in Thailand? Are we expecting the government to simply remove their subsidy on it, or do we think they're they going to tax it up to the same price as benzine so that LPG motoring goes completely out of the window here? I wonder what figures to guess for the prices of benzine and LPG in my above calculations if I do them for the next 4 years.

We're in the throes of buying a new small hatchback just now, and wondering if we can justify installing LPG again on that. If I thought we could just about break even on it, I'd be prepared to go for it solely on its environmental and anti-war aggro merits.

If you don't drive that much,it's probably not good to instal the LPG,you already know your calculations...but doing this to a new car,you also lose your warranty.New ECO cars are pretty good on economy,so in your case I would not do it...