Help With Double Taxation Treaties Uk/Thailand

[tonika]

Can anyone give me help or advice regarding the Double Taxation Treaties between the UK and Thailand ?. I'm taking early retirement in the UK at the end of June, depending on how soon I can sell or rent my property in the UK after this, is when I'II be able to come and settle (permanently) wth my wife in Thailand.

At the moment the thing that is causing me the biggest hassle is , I just can't seem to get any straight forward answers about how much tax I will pay, and to which country, when I retire. At first I got in touch with HMRC, I got passed fom one department to the next, but at the end of the day I was still confused. I then went to see a Chartered Accountant, He tells me my UK tax situation is pretty straight forward, and his Company can sort it out. But when I asked him ' What is the situation with the Double Taxation Treaties, when I've moved to Thailand ? ', he couldn't give me an answer. His advice was to ask expats who live there.

So if anyone can give me help with this subject, or they know off someone who can, I'd be very much obliged.

[AyG]

There is no double taxation treaty for state or private pensions. (There is only for government pensions i.e. pensions paid to people who worked for the government.)

You'll be taxed on your UK income (including your pension) just as you would be in the UK.

Theoretically you could also be taxed on your UK income in Thailand if you bring it into Thailand within a year. However, I've never heard of this actually happening. If you have no income in Thailand then there's no need to make a Thai tax return and the taxman here will never even know about you. If you want to be extra safe, keep the money in a bank account outside Thailand for a year, then bring it in.

[CharlieH]

I always assumed tax was payable by "UK residents" therefore if you are not residing nor have a residence in the UK why would you pay them tax ?

[pontious]

Sadly not - you are allowed your personal allowance but then Uk income is taxed at the relevant rate.

Savings in Offshore Banks will give you tax free saving.

[Soutpeel]

The best way to see this is to assume any "income earned" in the UK will be taxed at source in the UK, It appears the thai tax man assumes the same and leave it at that.

[tonika]

There is no double taxation treaty for state or private pensions. (There is only for government pensions i.e. pensions paid to people who worked for the government.)

You'll be taxed on your UK income (including your pension) just as you would be in the UK.

Theoretically you could also be taxed on your UK income in Thailand if you bring it into Thailand within a year. However, I've never heard of this actually happening. If you have no income in Thailand then there's no need to make a Thai tax return and the taxman here will never even know about you. If you want to be extra safe, keep the money in a bank account outside Thailand for a year, then bring it in.

AyG - Can you give me any further advice regarding the following information ? When I retire I will have 3 ' Local Government Pensions ', and it would look like I will be renting my property in the UK, rather than selling. So I would have a monthly rental income + the 3 pensions. In addition I also have some money in a bank savings account, but with the poor interest rates here in the UK, I thought of transfering this money to Thailand. Then in June (2013 ) I get the UK State Pension.

According to the HMRC Digest of Double Taxation Treaties ( With Thailand ) it states;

1. Property Income Dividends : Full Refief on Tax ( The income must be subject to tax in the territory to qualify for relief )

2. Interest : 25 % ( Note 1. Relief may be restricted if whole amount of Income is not remitted to Thailand - Note 2. 10% or full relief in certain circumstances )

3. Government Pensions : Full Relief ( Relief available only where the individual is BOTH a national and a resident of the territory )

4. State Pension : No Relief

Thanks

tonika

[tonika]

I always assumed tax was payable by "UK residents" therefore if you are not residing nor have a residence in the UK why would you pay them tax ?

CharlieH Thats what I thought, not so HMRC, they say regarding Residence ; ' There is no special definition of the word

' residence ' for tax. It is not just about whether you have a house or flat in the UK or about how much time you spend there, but the the more connections you have with the UK the more likely you are to be a UK resident ( For taxation ). You can be resident in more than one country at the same time '. To me it's just another way of saying you'll be liable for UK tax even if your staying in Thailand.

[AyG]

CharlieH Thats what I thought, not so HMRC, they say regarding Residence ; ' There is no special definition of the word

' residence ' for tax. It is not just about whether you have a house or flat in the UK or about how much time you spend there, but the the more connections you have with the UK the more likely you are to be a UK resident ( For taxation ). You can be resident in more than one country at the same time '. To me it's just another way of saying you'll be liable for UK tax even if your staying in Thailand.

I think you're confusing residence with domicile. Domicile isn't precisely defined. Residence is. See.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/faqs_general.htm#13nr

[rubik101]

I always assumed tax was payable by "UK residents" therefore if you are not residing nor have a residence in the UK why would you pay them tax ?

I live here in Thailand, have no property in UK but my private pension is still taxed in the UK, not much, but it is taxed. ALL income derived in the Uk is taxable.

[wordchild]

I always assumed tax was payable by "UK residents" therefore if you are not residing nor have a residence in the UK why would you pay them tax ?

I live here in Thailand, have no property in UK but my private pension is still taxed in the UK, not much, but it is taxed. ALL income derived in the Uk is taxable.

this is not true! If you are not resident many forms of UK sourced income are not subject to tax eg bank interest and dividends . Pensions can be paid gross of tax depending on where you are resident and subject to the relevant double taxation treaty. However the treaty between Thailand and the UK does not cover pensions therefore, if you are resident in Thailand, the Uk will deduct your pension tax liability at source .

[AyG]

this is not true! If you are not resident many forms of UK sourced income are not subject to tax eg bank interest and dividends .

Sorry, but what you've written is not true.

Bank interest is taxable in the UK. If your total taxable income is less than the zero rated personal allowance on some accounts you can complete a form and have the interest paid gross - though in my experience most UK banks won't accept the form (as they are allowed to do) to encourage you to open an account with their offshore banking operation.

With dividends, they have already been taxed when you receive them, but there is an associated tax credit which is offset against your taxable income. If you are a higher rate tax payer you will have to pay additional income tax.

[wordchild]

this is not true! If you are not resident many forms of UK sourced income are not subject to tax eg bank interest and dividends .

Sorry, but what you've written is not true.

Bank interest is taxable in the UK. If your total taxable income is less than the zero rated personal allowance on some accounts you can complete a form and have the interest paid gross - though in my experience most UK banks won't accept the form (as they are allowed to do) to encourage you to open an account with their offshore banking operation.

With dividends, they have already been taxed when you receive them, but there is an associated tax credit which is offset against your taxable income. If you are a higher rate tax payer you will have to pay additional income tax.

sorry again but this is simply not true. as i said above (correctly) if you are not resident, UK sourced bank interest is not subject to UK tax and there is no tax to pay on UK sourced dividends, however you cannot reclaim the tax credit.

Edited March 23, 2012 by wordchild

[chiang mai]

this is not true! If you are not resident many forms of UK sourced income are not subject to tax eg bank interest and dividends .

Sorry, but what you've written is not true.

Bank interest is taxable in the UK. If your total taxable income is less than the zero rated personal allowance on some accounts you can complete a form and have the interest paid gross - though in my experience most UK banks won't accept the form (as they are allowed to do) to encourage you to open an account with their offshore banking operation.

With dividends, they have already been taxed when you receive them, but there is an associated tax credit which is offset against your taxable income. If you are a higher rate tax payer you will have to pay additional income tax.

The above is incorrect, bank interest arising in the UK can easily be paid gross where the account holder is proven to be resident overseas.

[chiang mai]

this is not true! If you are not resident many forms of UK sourced income are not subject to tax eg bank interest and dividends .

Sorry, but what you've written is not true.

Bank interest is taxable in the UK. If your total taxable income is less than the zero rated personal allowance on some accounts you can complete a form and have the interest paid gross - though in my experience most UK banks won't accept the form (as they are allowed to do) to encourage you to open an account with their offshore banking operation.

With dividends, they have already been taxed when you receive them, but there is an associated tax credit which is offset against your taxable income. If you are a higher rate tax payer you will have to pay additional income tax.

The above is incorrect, bank interest arising in the UK can easily be paid gross where the account holder is proven to be resident overseas. The same is true of perssonal pension ammounts that arise in the UK where the ammount of payment is less than the personal allowance and overseas residence has been proven. In my case, I am paid both private pension and savings account interest free of UK tax, the former by Transact and the latter by HSBC UK and HMRC is perfectly happy with that arangement. All of that will likely change however in two years time as soon as I start to recieve aditional pension payments and the total of my UK arising income will exceed the UK personal allowance.

[letitbe]

I always assumed tax was payable by "UK residents" therefore if you are not residing nor have a residence in the UK why would you pay them tax ?

why are so many totally ignorant of simple facts. Any UK income is taxed in UK irrespective of weather your resident, non resident, non domiciled UK citizan or not. Thats not so hard to understand is it. If your non resident then your income outside UK is not taxed in UK but if your not non resident all your income worldwide is taxable in UK. You also dont pay GT tax if your non resident. If your non domiciled you are only liable for IH tax on UK assets ( be careful here but basically you need to have severed all citizen ties with UK and not have any place to live in in UK and be burried outside UK etc). My wife has UK income from property and is Thai never lived in UK and under double taxation agreement can get a normal UK tax allowance but must have a Thai tax reference and other hurdles. We looked into it very carefully since not being a UK citizan she is not automatically entitled to a UK tax allowance. This would save her 20% of around 9000 gbp (using new budget allowance) or around 1800 gbp uk tax (in fact shed pay no UK tax since her UK income is only around that figure. However then she would be liable to Thai income tax which although a lot less we decided we did not want to open a can of worms since as most people know here most people here with property rental income pay no tax. In fact 10 years ago wishing to be totally legal we consulted a top tax accountant here with aim of declaring her rental income here. We were told are you mad no one pays that tax unless they are renting large blocks out or have a block of apartments or block of serviced apartments or renting to corporations.

Best to just not worry about it at all.

[chiang mai]

I always assumed tax was payable by "UK residents" therefore if you are not residing nor have a residence in the UK why would you pay them tax ?

why are so many totally ignorant of simple facts. Any UK income is taxed in UK irrespective of weather your resident, non resident, non domiciled UK citizan or not. Thats not so hard to understand is it. If your non resident then your income outside UK is not taxed in UK but if your not non resident all your income worldwide is taxable in UK. You also dont pay GT tax if your non resident. If your non domiciled you are only liable for IH tax on UK assets ( be careful here but basically you need to have severed all citizen ties with UK and not have any place to live in in UK and be burried outside UK etc). My wife has UK income from property and is Thai never lived in UK and under double taxation agreement can get a normal UK tax allowance but must have a Thai tax reference and other hurdles. We looked into it very carefully since not being a UK citizan she is not automatically entitled to a UK tax allowance. This would save her 20% of around 9000 gbp (using new budget allowance) or around 1800 gbp uk tax (in fact shed pay no UK tax since her UK income is only around that figure. However then she would be liable to Thai income tax which although a lot less we decided we did not want to open a can of worms since as most people know here most people here with property rental income pay no tax. In fact 10 years ago wishing to be totally legal we consulted a top tax accountant here with aim of declaring her rental income here. We were told are you mad no one pays that tax unless they are renting large blocks out or have a block of apartments or block of serviced apartments or renting to corporations.

Best to just not worry about it at all.

"Any UK income is taxed in UK irrespective of weather your resident, non resident, non domiciled UK citizan or not", is the wrong answer! None residents can use HMRC form 105 to recieve their savings/investment income free of tax.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/r105.pdf

[letitbe]

I always assumed tax was payable by "UK residents" therefore if you are not residing nor have a residence in the UK why would you pay them tax ?

why are so many totally ignorant of simple facts. Any UK income is taxed in UK irrespective of weather your resident, non resident, non domiciled UK citizan or not. Thats not so hard to understand is it. If your non resident then your income outside UK is not taxed in UK but if your not non resident all your income worldwide is taxable in UK. You also dont pay GT tax if your non resident. If your non domiciled you are only liable for IH tax on UK assets ( be careful here but basically you need to have severed all citizen ties with UK and not have any place to live in in UK and be burried outside UK etc). My wife has UK income from property and is Thai never lived in UK and under double taxation agreement can get a normal UK tax allowance but must have a Thai tax reference and other hurdles. We looked into it very carefully since not being a UK citizan she is not automatically entitled to a UK tax allowance. This would save her 20% of around 9000 gbp (using new budget allowance) or around 1800 gbp uk tax (in fact shed pay no UK tax since her UK income is only around that figure. However then she would be liable to Thai income tax which although a lot less we decided we did not want to open a can of worms since as most people know here most people here with property rental income pay no tax. In fact 10 years ago wishing to be totally legal we consulted a top tax accountant here with aim of declaring her rental income here. We were told are you mad no one pays that tax unless they are renting large blocks out or have a block of apartments or block of serviced apartments or renting to corporations.

Best to just not worry about it at all.

"Any UK income is taxed in UK irrespective of weather your resident, non resident, non domiciled UK citizan or not", is the wrong answer! None residents can use HMRC form 105 to recieve their savings/investment income free of tax.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/r105.pdf

true but they are still liable for tax on it same as my wife completed and was accepted to receive her rental income free of tax but that does not mean tax is not payable it is so sorry my statement is 100% correct. You obviously dont understand at all and almost certainly unlike us have no experience of being non resident or/and non domiciled UK citizen or not. Up to you if you want to believe otherwise but I suggest before you mislead people you properly read IR website notes or some here will be shocked.

Not having interest or income taxed at source is nothing to do with liability for UK tax but sorry I get bored with those here on TV who spout rubbish with all due respect

[wordchild]

The tax treatment for residential property is not the same as the tax treatment of other sorts of income. Dividends and interest income from a bank ac are not liable for uk tax if you are non res.

[letitbe]

The tax treatment for residential property is not the same as the tax treatment of other sorts of income. Dividends and interest income from a bank ac are not liable for uk tax if you are non res.

The tax treatment for residential property is not the same as the tax treatment of other sorts of income. Dividends and interest income from a bank ac are not liable for uk tax if you are non res.

you might be right but having carefully checked UK IR web site it is not at all clear which is typical of IR in UK. So apologies if I mislead but your original reply implied tax was not due for non residents on income. ?? I find in these matters the only certain answer is by asking IR direct and while they will keep referring to their help leaflets which are not clear constant pressure will get a proper answer eventually. Below are extracts from IR web site which do not make it at all clear. While we have some minor dividend and bank interest income interestingly while I was non resident the UK IR insisted I was liable for higher rate tax (while accepting that I was indeed non resident) due to significant bank interest. I queried it and was told even as non resident I was still liable but of course they are not always right. The extract below implies that at the least they should not have asked for higher rate but its not at all clear if that means their is no liability at all for non residents. Since you cant get back any tax paid at source for dividends or Bank deposits the amount extra amounted to around 20% of 7,000 gbp being 1400 pounds. Armed with the information on their web site I will probably even though I paid extra tax now query again the IR decision. In any case that was when I first became recognised as non resident around 8 years ago and so might be beyond the time limit (I think thats 6 years). It was only in one year that my income exceeded the basic rate level due to bank interest income and for last few years we transferred all spare money out of UK.

I shall write to UK IR to try and get a definitive answer since its your correct we might be better investing my wifes UK money into dividends instead of rented property since she definitely has to pay income tax on her rental income and as explained in my original reply without using double taxation treaty is not entitled to a UK tax allowance. Interestingly our 2 children who are both Thai and UK citizans are entitled to a UK allowance even though they have never lived in UK but thats another issue.

Again apologies if I mislead anyone but I do recommend people check for themselves with UK IR

Extracts from UK IR site

HOW IS INVESTMENT INCOME CHARGED TO TAX? With the exception of income from property in the UK and investment income connected to a trade in the UK through a branch or agency, the tax charge for non-residents on investment income arising in the UK is restricted to the amount of tax, if any,

I think means restricted to amount of tax deducted by bank or company at source.

UK non-residents do not pay tax on:

• Interest from certain UK Government securities
  
• Interest from UK-situate bank and building society deposits
  

deducted at source.

Non residents: liability to UK tax

Income arising in the UK is liable to UK Income Tax even though the recipient may be not resident in the UK, unless the income can be exempted or partially relieved under a

Double Taxation Treaty

.

[chiang mai]

I always assumed tax was payable by "UK residents" therefore if you are not residing nor have a residence in the UK why would you pay them tax ?

why are so many totally ignorant of simple facts. Any UK income is taxed in UK irrespective of weather your resident, non resident, non domiciled UK citizan or not. Thats not so hard to understand is it. If your non resident then your income outside UK is not taxed in UK but if your not non resident all your income worldwide is taxable in UK. You also dont pay GT tax if your non resident. If your non domiciled you are only liable for IH tax on UK assets ( be careful here but basically you need to have severed all citizen ties with UK and not have any place to live in in UK and be burried outside UK etc). My wife has UK income from property and is Thai never lived in UK and under double taxation agreement can get a normal UK tax allowance but must have a Thai tax reference and other hurdles. We looked into it very carefully since not being a UK citizan she is not automatically entitled to a UK tax allowance. This would save her 20% of around 9000 gbp (using new budget allowance) or around 1800 gbp uk tax (in fact shed pay no UK tax since her UK income is only around that figure. However then she would be liable to Thai income tax which although a lot less we decided we did not want to open a can of worms since as most people know here most people here with property rental income pay no tax. In fact 10 years ago wishing to be totally legal we consulted a top tax accountant here with aim of declaring her rental income here. We were told are you mad no one pays that tax unless they are renting large blocks out or have a block of apartments or block of serviced apartments or renting to corporations.

Best to just not worry about it at all.

"Any UK income is taxed in UK irrespective of weather your resident, non resident, non domiciled UK citizan or not", is the wrong answer! None residents can use HMRC form 105 to recieve their savings/investment income free of tax.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/r105.pdf

true but they are still liable for tax on it same as my wife completed and was accepted to receive her rental income free of tax but that does not mean tax is not payable it is so sorry my statement is 100% correct. You obviously dont understand at all and almost certainly unlike us have no experience of being non resident or/and non domiciled UK citizen or not. Up to you if you want to believe otherwise but I suggest before you mislead people you properly read IR website notes or some here will be shocked.

Not having interest or income taxed at source is nothing to do with liability for UK tax but sorry I get bored with those here on TV who spout rubbish with all due respect

You subsequently seem to have almost agreed that interest income is not taxable where the account holder is not resident so I will not belabour your extremely rude post further, except to add that I have also been non-Uk resident since 1992.

[letitbe]

You subsequently seem to have almost agreed that interest income is not taxable where the account holder is not resident so I will not belabour your extremely rude post further, except to add that I have also been non-Uk resident since 1992.

apologies but so many post BS and UK IR told me I was liable even though non resident so unless your claiming you have personal experience in this and can quote exact from UK IR site then it is simply not clear

I repeat I was charged extra tax while non resident since my bank interest took me into higher rate and I did query it but UK IR insisted I was still liable

If I mislead anyone else I apologise but repeat they better double check and I dont give a fig if my post is rude if it makes some people not just accept any old nonsense posted on TV

It is not clear and I dont accept without proof your claim so please prove it and not just refer to some form but a clear statement from IR web site which implies it is taxable

[chiang mai]

You subsequently seem to have almost agreed that interest income is not taxable where the account holder is not resident so I will not belabour your extremely rude post further, except to add that I have also been non-Uk resident since 1992.

apologies but so many post BS and UK IR told me I was liable even though non resident so unless your claiming you have personal experience in this and can quote exact from UK IR site then it is simply not clear

I repeat I was charged extra tax while non resident since my bank interest took me into higher rate and I did query it but UK IR insisted I was still liable

If I mislead anyone else I apologise but repeat they better double check and I dont give a fig if my post is rude if it makes some people not just accept any old nonsense posted on TV

It is not clear and I dont accept without proof your claim so please prove it and not just refer to some form but a clear statement from IR web site which implies it is taxable

Sorry you don't accept what I've written, you need to go find a good UK tax consultant who can answer all your queries and whose word you can trust, I'm certainly not inclined to do his job (or yours) and waste my time trawling around the HMRC web sites to answer all your queries! Had your attitude vbeen somwhat different at the outset I may have been willing to help/discuss but not now.

Edited March 23, 2012 by chiang mai

[Pez1947]

This question fits with my situation, In April I will be 65 and be entitled to the UK state pension. I asked the the TAX man if it will be taxed, since there is a double taxation agreement with Thailand. The answere was, I would be taxed because the double tax agreement was "odd", why odd I don't know.

As a retired civil servant I still have to pay normal UK taxis. Given the latest budget both you and I are going to loose out because of the phasing out of age related personal allowance.

I have been classified as UK non resident for a number of years - it has offered me no benefit. I had to pay VAT on all the associated bills with property renting and subsequent sale.

[letitbe]

You subsequently seem to have almost agreed that interest income is not taxable where the account holder is not resident so I will not belabour your extremely rude post further, except to add that I have also been non-Uk resident since 1992.

apologies but so many post BS and UK IR told me I was liable even though non resident so unless your claiming you have personal experience in this and can quote exact from UK IR site then it is simply not clear

I repeat I was charged extra tax while non resident since my bank interest took me into higher rate and I did query it but UK IR insisted I was still liable

If I mislead anyone else I apologise but repeat they better double check and I dont give a fig if my post is rude if it makes some people not just accept any old nonsense posted on TV

It is not clear and I dont accept without proof your claim so please prove it and not just refer to some form but a clear statement from IR web site which implies it is taxable

Sorry you don't accept what I've written, you need to go find a good UK tax consultant who can answer all your queries and whose word you can trust, I'm certainly not inclined to do his job (or yours) and waste my time trawling around the HMRC web sites to answer all your queries! Had your attitude vbeen somwhat different at the outset I may have been willing to help/discuss but not now.

You subsequently seem to have almost agreed that interest income is not taxable where the account holder is not resident so I will not belabour your extremely rude post further, except to add that I have also been non-Uk resident since 1992.

apologies but so many post BS and UK IR told me I was liable even though non resident so unless your claiming you have personal experience in this and can quote exact from UK IR site then it is simply not clear

I repeat I was charged extra tax while non resident since my bank interest took me into higher rate and I did query it but UK IR insisted I was still liable

If I mislead anyone else I apologise but repeat they better double check and I dont give a fig if my post is rude if it makes some people not just accept any old nonsense posted on TV

It is not clear and I dont accept without proof your claim so please prove it and not just refer to some form but a clear statement from IR web site which implies it is taxable

Sorry you don't accept what I've written, you need to go find a good UK tax consultant who can answer all your queries and whose word you can trust, I'm certainly not inclined to do his job (or yours) and waste my time trawling around the HMRC web sites to answer all your queries! Had your attitude vbeen somwhat different at the outset I may have been willing to help/discuss but not now.

i dont need your held thank you and in past I have used so called top tax advisors including ones who used to work at UK IR only to find their advise also not always correct. AsI said you might be right but it is totally arrogant of you to claim facts without proving them. Ill leave it to others to decide weather they want to be sensible and check or simply take your word for it which IMO would be stupid since it is quite possible you are wrong and I repeat Uk IR charged me extra tax on bank interest even though I was non resident. the fact is they told me I was still liable for it and although they might have lied id rather trust then than some one on TV

[chiang mai]

OP: I've PM'd you with some information that I hope will begin to answer your questions.

[Orac]

This thread seems to highlight the confusion over what tax relief non resident status actually allows and also the problems that relying on professional advice can lead to.

Can anyone recommend a good UK tax advisor in Thailand with not only the technical knowledge but also experience in dealing with the IR in tax investigations??

[chiang mai]

To answer your specific question, no, sorry.

But it really is not that difficult unless someone wants to make it so or if indeed someone has complex tax affairs. In outline: non-resident ex-pats have a tax free allowance, just like their onshore counterparts, that allowance is used to absorb the income that arises in the UK including pensions, real estate income and many investments. Savings interest is also taxable BUT only to the extent of tax that is dedeucted at source and this can easily be mitigated to a greater degree by getting the interest paid gross - where the interest is paid gross there is no further tax liability and it is classified as "forgiven".

Try reading this:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/tax-leave-uk.htm

[letitbe]

To answer your specific question, no, sorry.

But it really is not that difficult unless someone wants to make it so or if indeed someone has complex tax affairs. In outline: non-resident ex-pats have a tax free allowance, just like their onshore counterparts, that allowance is used to absorb the income that arises in the UK including pensions, real estate income and many investments. Savings interest is also taxable BUT only to the extent of tax that is dedeucted at source and this can easily be mitigated to a greater degree by getting the interest paid gross - where the interest is paid gross there is no further tax liability and it is classified as "forgiven".

Try reading this:

http://www.hmrc.gov....ax-leave-uk.htm

To answer your specific question, no, sorry.

But it really is not that difficult unless someone wants to make it so or if indeed someone has complex tax affairs. In outline: non-resident ex-pats have a tax free allowance, just like their onshore counterparts, that allowance is used to absorb the income that arises in the UK including pensions, real estate income and many investments. Savings interest is also taxable BUT only to the extent of tax that is dedeucted at source and this can easily be mitigated to a greater degree by getting the interest paid gross - where the interest is paid gross there is no further tax liability and it is classified as "forgiven".

Try reading this:

http://www.hmrc.gov....ax-leave-uk.htm

thank you for the link which I have already read together with other notes from Uk IR. Its still (as usual with UK Ir) not 100% clear where does it say "forgiven" if it does then that is 100% clear. As ive said I have been charged extra tax on bank interest years ago and the IR accepted I was non resident and not ordinary resident. The interest put me into higher rate tax band and at the time on querying it I was told by UK IR tax that I was still liable for tax at higher rate. Id be very grateful if anyone can show on Uk IR site clear wording on this since even though I paid extra tax as demanded I am now going to write to Uk IR suggesting they were wrong and asking for a rebate. I shall do this anyway but any reference that is clear would help since in my experience they take a lot of persuading that they are wrong. Ive even had tax demands for corporation tax for a company I had struck off at companies house years before year tax was claimed. The IR admitted the company did not exist for year in question but insisted I was still liable for late penalties for not filling a corporation tax return sinceI never told them I had closed the company and they even admitted all due tax was paid before closure. Total BS of course and in end I just told them to try and get me here. I was told (no way in writing) I probably would not hear anymore about it and have not in last 4 years.

[wordchild]

To answer your specific question, no, sorry.

But it really is not that difficult unless someone wants to make it so or if indeed someone has complex tax affairs. In outline: non-resident ex-pats have a tax free allowance, just like their onshore counterparts, that allowance is used to absorb the income that arises in the UK including pensions, real estate income and many investments. Savings interest is also taxable BUT only to the extent of tax that is dedeucted at source and this can easily be mitigated to a greater degree by getting the interest paid gross - where the interest is paid gross there is no further tax liability and it is classified as "forgiven".

Try reading this:

http://www.hmrc.gov....ax-leave-uk.htm

To answer your specific question, no, sorry.

But it really is not that difficult unless someone wants to make it so or if indeed someone has complex tax affairs. In outline: non-resident ex-pats have a tax free allowance, just like their onshore counterparts, that allowance is used to absorb the income that arises in the UK including pensions, real estate income and many investments. Savings interest is also taxable BUT only to the extent of tax that is dedeucted at source and this can easily be mitigated to a greater degree by getting the interest paid gross - where the interest is paid gross there is no further tax liability and it is classified as "forgiven".

Try reading this:

http://www.hmrc.gov....ax-leave-uk.htm

thank you for the link which I have already read together with other notes from Uk IR. Its still (as usual with UK Ir) not 100% clear where does it say "forgiven" if it does then that is 100% clear. As ive said I have been charged extra tax on bank interest years ago and the IR accepted I was non resident and not ordinary resident. The interest put me into higher rate tax band and at the time on querying it I was told by UK IR tax that I was still liable for tax at higher rate. Id be very grateful if anyone can show on Uk IR site clear wording on this since even though I paid extra tax as demanded I am now going to write to Uk IR suggesting they were wrong and asking for a rebate. I shall do this anyway but any reference that is clear would help since in my experience they take a lot of persuading that they are wrong. Ive even had tax demands for corporation tax for a company I had struck off at companies house years before year tax was claimed. The IR admitted the company did not exist for year in question but insisted I was still liable for late penalties for not filling a corporation tax return sinceI never told them I had closed the company and they even admitted all due tax was paid before closure. Total BS of course and in end I just told them to try and get me here. I was told (no way in writing) I probably would not hear anymore about it and have not in last 4 years.

I think what you need to do is find yourself a good accountant. As Chiang Mai has said none of this is that complicated for the average tax accountant but you seem to have been fed some absolute nonsense by the "top" tax advisors and revenue officials you have used in the past. Then again it could be you just asked the wrong questions.

As you are clearly concerned about the BS and misinformation there can be on this site ,possibly, once you have got all the info together to your own satisfaction, you might want to post back to correct some of your rather strident and also misleading earlier assertions on this topic.

Edited March 24, 2012 by wordchild

[chiang mai]

I suspect that one of letitbe's many problems (and I'm refering to UK tax here) is vested in the following statement:

"Savings interest normally has tax taken off at 20 per cent before you receive it. If you're a higher rate (40 per cent) or additional rate (50 per cent) taxpayer, you'll owe tax on the difference. If you have a low income you may be able to claim tax back".

...which comes from here:

http://www.direct.go...ents/DG_4015739

From what he's written I suspect he's only accounted for savings interest at the basic rate and has been suprised later when HMRC has hit him for the additional payment which considers the implications of the higher rate, I'm just guessing here so no need to get uptight if I'm wrong.

As far as the term "forgiven" is concerned: there is an HMRC web page that discusses forgiven tax on savings interest, I saw this again a few days ago but cannot immediately find it, I suggest that if you Google HMRC non-resident savings interest (etc etc) you will be able to find it. In the meantime, the principle of "forgiveness" is demonstrated in the link below, not excatly the same scenario as you but the applied concept is identical.

http://www.direct.go...ents/DG_4015739

It's worth reminding you that "forgiveness" only takes place at the basic rate and not at higher rates.

Edited March 24, 2012 by chiang mai