Lies, Lies And Lies... Or?

[Zorne]

What is your opinion, FROM A THAI perspective, on my problem below?

I think I know what is going on here but I would like some input anyway from those of you with more experience of Thais and what there reasoning behind this might be. I am not interested in you view from western perspective like "Offcourse she is lying, dump her!". Although that might be the likely scenario it is not what I want to discuss. I want to understand a view I am still, after many years, struggling to understand. So, to some background and the problem...

I am about to have a baby with a Thai lady I´ve been with for a few years. She is 26 and I am 37. She do have a history of lying and doing some really bad things at the start of our relationship (should have ran then maybe but forget about that now in this dilemma). Anyway, we worked through it and I really believe from that point we had a good thing going. I trusted and still trust her. But I keep my eyes open. Might sound like a contradiction but that´s how it is.

I have just now had some major financial issues due to unforcein circumstances. It´s a very temporary thing but it involved me beeing extremely low on cash for two weeks when causing major upsets cause bills needed to be payed, flights needed to be booked, food and rent needed etc.

Now I just found out from the gf's sister´s boyfriend (farang) that my gf sold him and his gf a piece of land for 100 000 baht. She had gotten quite a bit of that money before my financial ordeal and got the second portion out of three just when I had my problems. She have told her sister and her bf not to tell me about this.

My questions:

Why does she keep it a secret?

Why didnt she come for my aid?

Might there be more to the story?

... ?

Once again, I want to understand her/(maybe Thai) reasoning.

Oh, one more thing. Her father just bought a car. Financed via loan and by her family alone. That´s what she said at least.

Sorry for misspellings etc etc as I am not a native English speaker... as you obviously can see.

Krap Khun Krap

Yours truly,

LookingForLogic

Edited March 28, 2012 by Zorne

[cardholder]

Looking for logic - want Thai perspective. I think you are expecting too much.

My missus says dump her.

[KarenBravo]

Easy.

Your G/F regards what's yours is hers and whats hers is hers alone.

[Zorne]

Looking for logic - want Thai perspective. I think you are expecting too much.

My missus says dump her.

So you are basically saying I am looking for something which isn't there.

[Zorne]

Easy.

Your G/F regards what's yours is hers and whats hers is hers alone.

Is that a "bad-girl" thing or is it a common thing amongsThais?

[richard_smith237]

People are simply people the world over. The only time I hear 'culture' thrown in is to explain or attempt to excuse something which may be seen a universally negative.

In this case, there is no associated difference other than, she is selfish, whatever cultural connotations or differences one may try apply to this only, the answer only ever comes back as an excuse for her being self centered and selfish.

[Zorne]

People are simply people the world over. The only time I hear 'culture' thrown in is to explain or attempt to excuse something which may be seen a universally negative.

In this case, there is no associated difference other than, she is selfish, whatever cultural connotations or differences one may try apply to this only, the answer only ever comes back as an excuse for her being self centered and selfish.

Thanks for your input.

[beano2274]

Easy.

Your G/F regards what's yours is hers and whats hers is hers alone.

This is the perfect answer. 100% true

[cardholder]

Looking for logic - want Thai perspective. I think you are expecting too much.

My missus says dump her.

So you are basically saying I am looking for something which isn't there.

I am saying that you are looking for something that:-

1. You won't understand.

2. Don't want to know about

3. That your instinct is aware of already.

[Zorne]

Looking for logic - want Thai perspective. I think you are expecting too much.

My missus says dump her.

So you are basically saying I am looking for something which isn't there.

I am saying that you are looking for something that:-

1. You won't understand.

2. Don't want to know about

3. That your instinct is aware of already.

You are most likely true. It´s a combo of the three.

As richard_smith points out it is a people thing yes. But I also want to discuss a little about why (if) this scenario is more common in Thailand. My experience is that it is more common. What is ALL you guys' experiences? Is it common that girlfriends and wives here hide money? Lie about these things?

As I said before there is a baby on the way. That complicates things a lot. Any advice from the all mighty jungle of Thaivisa knowledge?

[Zorne]

I am saying that you are looking for something that:-

1. You won't understand.

2. Don't want to know about

3. That your instinct is aware of already.

#3 is true for sure.

Maybe #2 is hindering me from seeing #1.

#2 I have changed from "denying" to wanting to know in order to take appropriate action.

So, now when #2 has fallen I am actually trying to understand #1. That´s where all you guys input come in. I want to understand and i am very much capable of doing so I think. Even so, all by myself I would like to believe. But I do believe it´s better to have a conversation like this making use of more peoples ideas and experiences.

[richard_smith237]

Looking for logic - want Thai perspective. I think you are expecting too much.

My missus says dump her.

So you are basically saying I am looking for something which isn't there.

I am saying that you are looking for something that:-

1. You won't understand.

2. Don't want to know about

3. That your instinct is aware of already.

You are most likely true. It´s a combo of the three.

As richard_smith points out it is a people thing yes. But I also want to discuss a little about why (if) this scenario is more common in Thailand. My experience is that it is more common. What is ALL you guys' experiences? Is it common that girlfriends and wives here hide money? Lie about these things?

As I said before there is a baby on the way. That complicates things a lot. Any advice from the all mighty jungle of Thaivisa knowledge?

No, its not common in my experience or in discussions I've had with friends.

Could it be that a very poor lady in the UK, about to become pregnant to a foreign man may choose to protect herself and keep some income to herself? very possible, even likely.

We may read or hear of a greater incidence of this type of behavior from ladies in Thailand because a) there is no social welfare system here, i.e. no back up plan for many ladies, and because most of the mixed relationships in Thailand are between men of relatively ample means and ladies from backgrounds of generally very little means.

As such, I am sure there is no cultural aspect, however there is a social economic aspect as life has taught many of these ladies to 'grab what they can'.... I wouldn't suggest its dishonesty, its simply that life has ingrained in some that thinking of oneself first out of necessity is important.

[brizzle]

''however there is a social economic aspect as life has taught many of these ladies to 'grab what they can'..''

Never a truer word........but I differ from you somewhat and would respectively suggest it could be dishonesty?

Edited March 28, 2012 by brizzle

[colinp]

OP, are you just looking for knowledge of the Thai pysche? If so a forum of predominately non-Thais isn't going to be great help. Rather then trying to excuse events/actions of your girlfriend, ask what you would do if she wasn't Thai. You were in a position where you required help, she was able to offer that help, instead she did nothing and kept it all secret. If she was the same nationality what would you do? Maybe good idea to confirm everything first.

Also, you found this out from the 'gf's sister´s boyfriend (farang)', why is he trustworthy? 99% of the foreigners I have met in my short time here lie, lie, and lie some more.

[TommoPhysicist]

Thai point of view.

Her property, her business, nothing to do with you, so no point in telling you.

Your answer.

Keep your business and finances to yourself, don't tell her anything.

Easy, and don't forget the DNA test.

Edited March 29, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[Zorne]

A lot of good posts. Thanks!

Interesting that nobody has pointed out the following likely scenario:

Since I had financial difficulties and a baby was on the way she felt she had to do something. To secure some safety for the baby she felt the best way was to make sure some money was there for that later on. She did not want to take a risk with the very few means she had. Thoughts?

[473geo]

Thais tend to seek advice from parents/family seniors and the like, remember it is not unusual for the farang to be considered unfamiliar with Thai ways.

Thai will often raise money when required, from 'selling' an asset to 'borrowing' from family.......often in close knit families the asset that is 'sold' maybe repurchased at the same price along the way, simlilarly interfamily loans carry no interest.

My advice is not to get too wrapped up in the 'she didn't tell me' scenario......she made her decision, and involving you would perhaps have compicated a simple family transaction

Enjoy the birth and the baby it is real fun.....but be prepared to stand back and let the Thai way take its course.....take it easy

But of course do not tell your lady I have said this

[bangkokburning]

You give her too much credit. In the end, she should have told you (Your partner). She did not becasue she was afraid you would think - hey, I'm having troubles and you are set so I am going to pull back and sort my finances. Nope, its about her and her money. This was an active decision on her part. Open mouth, speak - I sold land...EASY.

Don't know if I blame her as you are not married. If you were married - I would be pretty hot about it. You have to remember - Thai men get a woman pregnant, stick around for a year or two and move on. She is just taking care of business. Farang or Thai.

I have been with my gf for over two years. She has never so much as told the smallest white lie to me. I trust her implictly. Family is poor, she has never grubbed a baht from me for them. She has never asked me for money for herself. Our rent is split 65/35 and our trips are split 80/20 (we travel a lot). We discuss all sorts of financial transactions as well as how her bank accounts are holding up. I encourage her to save and grab odd jobs from messenging and at her work. So WE talk about HER finances all the time. In fact, I do discuss mine but not nearly in such detail. She is OK with it as well. She has never asked what I am worth or when I say - HEY, I spent too much last month, need to pull back. OK - no problem!

Run, don't walk.

As for the kid - you are in the misery regardless.

Edited March 30, 2012 by bangkokburning

[Trembly]

I've just had a few beers but I do believe that my judgement is still intact enough to say that as a Thai male I think this is a great big pile of sweaty <deleted>.

She is keeping your child but appears to treat your financial hardship with apparent indifference, which leads me to believe that in reality she just regards you as a life-support system. She already thinks that the baby is hers to have and for you to pay for and nothing else, otherwise she wouldn't have squirrelled the money away from you (Thais are not known for being stingy with their friends and loved ones; if she genuinely considered you to be a part of her and the baby's life she probably wouldn't let you suffer while she had her windfall).

You can call me cynical if you like but this stinks to high heaven. Most Thais males I know would consider this to be way beyond the pale and would be packing their bags or sending her packing herself, just to show the girl that they're not going to put up with this shit if nothing else. If she has any sense it'll give her a rude awakening because legally she does not have you over a barrel like in the west. Mind you, legal barrels are not the only barrels.

[TheWalkingMan]

I look at this in plain terms... Anyone's partner who is unwilling to sit calmly and discuss finances needs to be given the boot. Especially if they are asking you to assist. Just get rid of him/her. Some like the challenge of a project, but forget that cr@p. There are plenty of nice people out there with OK finances or are willing to discuss.

[banglay]

Khun Thai's Like to hold there cards very close to there chest .. it's not that they are being deceitful it's just they way some of them are (Not all some)..Just ask a few question you might even be surprised with the answers you get...

Remember Wars have started by second guessing what people are getting up too... it's better to talk things through than fight or run....

A couple of months ago I slight cash flow problem (A hiccup really) And without hesitation my GF offered to sell her gold to help us through which really meant a lot to me knowing how much it means to here coming from a humble Thai back ground ( I never took her up on her kind offer but it was nice to be asked)

Edited March 31, 2012 by banglay

[4evermaat]

..........

As I said before there is a baby on the way. That complicates things a lot. Any advice from the all mighty jungle of Thaivisa knowledge?

The baby doesn't complicate anything. You're just looking for a reason to continue to suffer.

[TommoPhysicist]

I look at this in plain terms... Anyone's partner who is unwilling to sit calmly and discuss finances needs to be given the boot. Especially if they are asking you to assist. Just get rid of him/her. Some like the challenge of a project, but forget that cr@p. There are plenty of nice people out there with OK finances or are willing to discuss.

Talking in plain terms.

What you, as a westerner, call a 'discussion', a Thai would call an 'act-of-war', this is just not the way Thai society works. The person in charge issues instructions, the subservient person obeys. This is the way every level of Thai society operates, and unless you can understand this, all your personal and business interactions will result in disaster.

Edited March 31, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[TheWalkingMan]

I look at this in plain terms... Anyone's partner who is unwilling to sit calmly and discuss finances needs to be given the boot. Especially if they are asking you to assist. Just get rid of him/her. Some like the challenge of a project, but forget that cr@p. There are plenty of nice people out there with OK finances or are willing to discuss.

Talking in plain terms.

What you, as a westerner, call a 'discussion', a Thai would call an 'act-of-war', this is just not the way Thai society works. The person in charge issues instructions, the subservient person obeys. This is the way every level of Thai society operates, and unless you can understand this, all your personal and business interactions will result in disaster.

Are you saying that Thai people do not sit down and calmly discuss finances? That I do not believe. Not at all. I am sure that there are plenty of people here with a Thai partner who is able to sit down and calmly discuss finances.

[TommoPhysicist]

Are you saying that Thai people do not sit down and calmly discuss finances? That I do not believe. Not at all. I am sure that there are plenty of people here with a Thai partner who is able to sit down and calmly discuss finances.

I'm fairly certain that no Thais discuss anything, let alone family finances.

The person who believes them-self to be in charge (or most important) seeks to impose their will on all comers.

This is the essence of a feudal society, not that I disagree with this, as it is a valid way for a society to work.

Whenever I see a western person attempt 'discussion' with a Thai, shouting, screaming and possibly physical violence quickly ensue.

To a Thai discussion = conflict >>> violence

Edited March 31, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[cardholder]

I look at this in plain terms... Anyone's partner who is unwilling to sit calmly and discuss finances needs to be given the boot. Especially if they are asking you to assist. Just get rid of him/her. Some like the challenge of a project, but forget that cr@p. There are plenty of nice people out there with OK finances or are willing to discuss.

Talking in plain terms.

What you, as a westerner, call a 'discussion', a Thai would call an 'act-of-war', this is just not the way Thai society works. The person in charge issues instructions, the subservient person obeys. This is the way every level of Thai society operates, and unless you can understand this, all your personal and business interactions will result in disaster.

Are you saying that Thai people do not sit down and calmly discuss finances? That I do not believe. Not at all. I am sure that there are plenty of people here with a Thai partner who is able to sit down and calmly discuss finances.

No

[champken]

Ask yourself the question, if for some reason you became totally skint without a pot to piss in would your little teeruk support you with the money she got from the land sale or would she tell you to sling your hook and go find herself a thicker wallet?

Assuming the baby is yours, and please dont take that the wrong way because it has been known......then yes that does rather complicate things, but i think thats another topic in the waiting....whatever good luck

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Your expectations are unreasonably high. It would be a very rare Thai girl married to a farang that would be willing to contribute financially in any major way to the "family unit". Most will bolt if/when hard times arrive.

This doesn't make her a "bad girl - being a bad provider is a far worse crime here than say being unfaithful. That in itself makes you an unsuitable husband and father. Remember the population here is much closer to the the evolutionary basis for the traditional institution of marriage.

That mostly works to our (relatively wealthy foreigners seeking female companionship) benefit, but you're now looking at the other side of the coin.

BTW This is a great way to test your girl, but of course should be done before she's pregnant.

In the vast majority of cases there is no such unit in reality, there is you as the cash cow and her as the service provider, and everything is fine as long as you're getting good value for money.

To me, there's nothing wrong with such an arrangement, the problem comes IMO from your unrealistic expectations.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Are you saying that Thai people do not sit down and calmly discuss finances? That I do not believe. Not at all. I am sure that there are plenty of people here with a Thai partner who is able to sit down and calmly discuss finances.

In my opinion you would be an idiot to disclose anything about family finances with your Thai partner. Give her a fair spending allowance, to include whatever she wants to use for clothes, fancy phones, helping out her family etc.

Sometimes that may go up or down depending on the current situation.

But do not show her how the sausage is actually made. It's your responsibility to shield her from such mundane details. And her own money that comes independently of you is none of your business, unless she chooses to share it with you.

A Thai-farang marriage will (should) never be the same as a farang-farang one, and certainly nothing like a Thai-Thai marriage.

[brit1984]

Are you saying that Thai people do not sit down and calmly discuss finances? That I do not believe. Not at all. I am sure that there are plenty of people here with a Thai partner who is able to sit down and calmly discuss finances.

In my opinion you would be an idiot to disclose anything about family finances with your Thai partner. Give her a fair spending allowance, to include whatever she wants to use for clothes, fancy phones, helping out her family etc.

I think this paragraph only makes sense if you substitute the word "partner" for "maid"... I assume it was a typo.