320 Killed On Highways In Seven Days Of Songkran: Thailand

[metisdead]

A post containing overly derogatory comments toward Thais has been removed.

[drdoom6996]

I assume that Deputy Prime Minister/Interior Minister Yongyuth Vichaidit in his capacity as director of the Road Safety Centre will resign with immediate effect, at least from his Road Safety Centre role. His campaign was clearly a complete failure.

In any well-run country, he would resign or be made to.

We all know he won't, therefore....

And why is his campagne supposed to be different than any of the other PTP campagns? The don't set up realistic goals. They dream up ideas. And then wonder why the ideas fail. They had many goals this time last year. But they have not achieved any of them yet.

[Kananga]

The usual resident apologist minimizes the seriousness by comparing apples and durians.

To say that Thailand cannot accept norms of behavior on the roads because it is in Asia begs the question: is Japan in Asia or the West? Is Korea in Asia? Is Hong Kong in Asia. Is Singapore in Asia? Is Taiwan in Asia? Need I continue with this list?

Best I can tell is your post is the first that even mentions the word "Asia" but I can't even find any post that even hints at suggesting Thailand cannot accept norms of the roads because of the continent Thailand is located.

So, to answer your question ... No, unless somebody actually states this as a position, there is no reason to go on as you appear to have created an imaginary position to argue against.

Let me explain. You are comparing Thailand to the West and making excuses for Thailands horrendous standard of driving because Thailand is behind the WEST in terms of development. You say the number of deaths is on a downward trend (although over 18% more people died during Songkran this year than last) and Thailand faces rapid modernization and expansion unlike much of the west.

Pisico's reply was to demonstrate that its not just Thailand that has had rapid expansion and development in Asia, all the other countries mentioned have too and as their road deaths are far lower, their road discipline far higher and their laws enforced more strictly. That means your reasoning for Thailand's horrendous traffic figures are nothing but a poor excuse trying to cover over the fact that unlike their more sensible, mature neighbours in Asia Thailand lags far behind and it has absolutely nothing to do with the West at all.

Understand now?

[JohnAllan]

Every year we have the same comments from New papers , every year the amount of accidents , death etc ...increase ..for Thai songkran , New year holidays etc ..... Nothing will ever change in here except the fact that we can see if there are more or less death year after year. Thailand needs a serious change in mentality for driving .... I cannot believe in other countries where its so hard to get a driving license , here is so easy , Thais dont know how to drive and to respect other drivers .....Thai roads are Dangerous , that is the only fact. so unless a drastic change is done , those figures will continue to rise.

Thai roads are dangerous. But the real danger is the Thai mentality with regard both to driving standards and to safety in general. Let's not tip-toe around the fact that Thai drivers, by-and-large, are incompetent, and many of their actions stupid in the extreme. Unless, and until, government recognise those facts, and the police act on them, no amount of ad hoc campaigns will even come close to target.

[lingyaiyai]

To put this is actual perspective ... it is an increase of road deaths by approx. 10 a day over the amount of road fatalities that occur in an average week in Thailand.

So that's all right then?

[lingyaiyai]

Even if you took the number of injuries for the week during Songkran and multiplied it by 52 (assuming this is the same rate all year long) and then compared them with the number of "serious" injuries in the UK in 2010, the numbers are about the same. http://en.wikipedia....#Annual_summary

Er.... the reported 'serious injury' total for the UK in 2010 in the article to which you refer was 20,803.

When multiplied by 52 this year's 7 day Songkran injury tally of 3320 is 172,640.

About the same eh?

[Nickiboy03]

The price one pays for a bit of freedom without government intrusion into every aspect of one's life. Rather have dangerous streets during holiday celebrations than big brother constantly breathing down our neck telling us how to live our lives and what we can and cannot do without bodies.

Thumbs up to this post Freedom =Personal Responsibility,but if there is none I would still rather take the Freedom, thats why I moved here from Police State Canada

Cheers Happy Songkran

[Nisa]

The usual resident apologist minimizes the seriousness by comparing apples and durians.

To say that Thailand cannot accept norms of behavior on the roads because it is in Asia begs the question: is Japan in Asia or the West? Is Korea in Asia? Is Hong Kong in Asia. Is Singapore in Asia? Is Taiwan in Asia? Need I continue with this list?

Best I can tell is your post is the first that even mentions the word "Asia" but I can't even find any post that even hints at suggesting Thailand cannot accept norms of the roads because of the continent Thailand is located.

So, to answer your question ... No, unless somebody actually states this as a position, there is no reason to go on as you appear to have created an imaginary position to argue against.

Let me explain. You are comparing Thailand to the West and making excuses for Thailands horrendous standard of driving because Thailand is behind the WEST in terms of development. You say the number of deaths is on a downward trend (although over 18% more people died during Songkran this year than last) and Thailand faces rapid modernization and expansion unlike much of the west.

Pisico's reply was to demonstrate that its not just Thailand that has had rapid expansion and development in Asia, all the other countries mentioned have too and as their road deaths are far lower, their road discipline far higher and their laws enforced more strictly. That means your reasoning for Thailand's horrendous traffic figures are nothing but a poor excuse trying to cover over the fact that unlike their more sensible, mature neighbours in Asia Thailand lags far behind and it has absolutely nothing to do with the West at all.

Understand now?

The question is do you understand? Nobody has made ANY comment that Thailand's road safety numbers has anything to do with it being in the Asian Continent. But people have stated very clearly it has to do with its current level of development. So, to then go on and make a faux argument that it has to do with the country being in Asia and then comparing it to already developed nations (Japan, S. Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore & Taiwan) in Asia to make an imaginary argument makes absolutely no sense ... especially when your argument confirms fully developed nations have much better safety standards.

You also seem to not understand what "trend" means. Thailand's accident rates and death rates on the roads (including during Songkran) are on a downward trend. You cannot look at just 1 or 2 year statistics to see a yearly "trend". Even in the west numbers can go up and down (just like the stock market) over a given period but it is the trend that matters. We can have an above average rainfall this year in Thailand but if you compare it to only the last year then you could go around screaming like chicken little saying the sky is falling because the rain fall is radically down from last year ... but this too would make little sense and be an incredibly illogical thing to do if the goal is to see if rainfall over the years is increasing, decreasing or stable (in the case of accidents ... improving or worsening or unchanged).

Edited April 19, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Even if you took the number of injuries for the week during Songkran and multiplied it by 52 (assuming this is the same rate all year long) and then compared them with the number of "serious" injuries in the UK in 2010, the numbers are about the same. http://en.wikipedia....#Annual_summary

Er.... the reported 'serious injury' total for the UK in 2010 in the article to which you refer was 20,803.

When multiplied by 52 this year's 7 day Songkran injury tally of 3320 is 172,640.

About the same eh?

My mistake - take out the word "serious" and replace it with the word "total" (206,798) and then yes, about the same. But I wouldn't get too obsessed as it was just food for thought because you can't multiply out the worst accident week of the year by 52 to get an accurate number of yearly injuries in Thailand and there is no telling what an injury (recorded) constitutes in either country and the Wiki article regarding the UK numbers is clear to state the injury numbers are low ("the actual total injuries is likely considerably higher than the reported figure, possibly three times higher.") and the numbers should be used to look at trends, not as a tell all of actual injuries which may be 3x higher in the UK.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Nisa

[GentlemanJim]

I have heard the annual death toll on the Thai roads tends to be between 15000-17000

320X52 = 16 640

Conclusion, this is normal! It seems at Songkhran we are getting more media coverage, more photos and being told there are more accidents. the truth is that this carnage is going on every single week. Maybe the 'accident rate' is higher during Songkhran with lots of drunk people falling off bikes or people hit in the face with a bucket of ice falling off bikes but not being killed. The death toll however seems pretty standard, so to hear a politician wanting to bring in stricter rules concerning drink driving, just around this time is none sense, and simply the act of a man who is playing the crowd for votes. Road safety is a serious issue in Thailand and something needs doing all of the time, not just 7 days a year.

[kirk0233]

In my opinion driving here is not different from other third world countries. There are unwritten rules of road etiquette that take some time to learn. For example, if a three lane toll road has enough room for 4 lanes, it becomes a 4 lane toll road. What initially seems like chaos, when understood as a road rule that grew out of the frustration of traffic congestion, becomes less anxiety provoking. I must compliment the Thai on the frequent use of turn indicators, if in a car not on a motorcycle. For the most part, the Thai I believe are considerate drivers if you are aware of the unwritten rules and are sufficiently assertive in your driving. That said, I would not drive on any roads in any country during a holiday that is associated with obstructing the vision of the driver with water by children or drunks.

[Nisa]

In a country where the climate is good all year round and 70% of the vehicles on the road are motorbikes, you are always going to having higher road fatality numbers ... especially with the lack of helmet use.

[oldsailor35]

How many times have you seen a vehicle displaying a "Learner Driver" plate in Thailand? Where would I buy a copy of the Thai Highway Code? The driving mentality here to get in front of the car in front at ANY cost. Normally then to slow and turn off the road. Flash your lights to force your way through and Buddha will sort everything out. In most other countries that would provoke road-rage! Not here where it would perceived as disrespectful to admonish someone for bad driving, particularly if he/she has a better can than you. Road craft is not taught here, a driving licence is not important as being caught without one is sorted out with 200 baht bribe. Combine this normal bad mannered driving with copious amounts of alcohol and the holiday spirit and this is the result. Year after year over every holiday, Songkran, New Year and Loy Kratong. I love Thailand and rarely diss the place but is something they need to look at and quickly.

As i have said before. Its about time that the Thai govt started issuing visa/work permits for English trained driving instructors.

[belg]

the mimimum wage should be 320 baht per day... as assessed each year according to songkrans death toll

[jomtienbob]

A question, rhetoriacal as it may be, When the hell is Thailand going to wake up and stop this stupidity? Killing 320 people over a one week period is madness. To put his in a bit of a different perspective, this is the same as killing 320 people in the UK (population wise) in 7 days. Would this insanity be condoned there? I venture to say that the defication would contact the rotating oscillator, and some police and politicians a$$es would be in a sling. Why is it condoned here? I know TiT - This is Thailand....that bullshit answer no longer has any validity.

Actually they try to band-aid the problem as best they can from year to year etc. However it's so easy to criticize from the outside looking in. 2010 saw over 99,000 deaths in USA from drug resistant nosocomial infections and the EU topped 25k! yet the doctors nurses and hospitals aren't in the headlines and you really have to be on the inside to know how big this preventable problem really is and yet here some are pointing the fingers at a statistic that pales into insignificance by comparison in any way you wish to look at it.

My insight is that 85% of the deaths last week are motorbike riders, so it would seem a sure fire "don't drive a bike over songkran" to lessen your chances of mortality significantly, and hey, I am guessing that many were trying to get to a happier place anyhow ;-) (ie drinking)

Sure they need much more comprehensive and affordable driver training (even having course in schools) and testing but if u think that is going to happen in your lifetime you'd be either pretty young or naive.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I assume that Deputy Prime Minister/Interior Minister Yongyuth Vichaidit in his capacity as director of the Road Safety Centre will resign with immediate effect, at least from his Road Safety Centre role. His campaign was clearly a complete failure.

In any well-run country, he would resign or be made to.

We all know he won't, therefore....

Thailand ISN'T a well run country - especially with this abject bunch of losers trying their hardest to ruin it!!!

[jomtienbob]

How many times have you seen a vehicle displaying a "Learner Driver" plate in Thailand? Where would I buy a copy of the Thai Highway Code? The driving mentality here to get in front of the car in front at ANY cost. Normally then to slow and turn off the road. Flash your lights to force your way through and Buddha will sort everything out. In most other countries that would provoke road-rage! Not here where it would perceived as disrespectful to admonish someone for bad driving, particularly if he/she has a better can than you. Road craft is not taught here, a driving licence is not important as being caught without one is sorted out with 200 baht bribe. Combine this normal bad mannered driving with copious amounts of alcohol and the holiday spirit and this is the result. Year after year over every holiday, Songkran, New Year and Loy Kratong. I love Thailand and rarely diss the place but is something they need to look at and quickly.

As i have said before. Its about time that the Thai govt started issuing visa/work permits for English trained driving instructors.

How many times have you seen a vehicle displaying a "Learner Driver" plate in Thailand? Where would I buy a copy of the Thai Highway Code? The driving mentality here to get in front of the car in front at ANY cost. Normally then to slow and turn off the road. Flash your lights to force your way through and Buddha will sort everything out. In most other countries that would provoke road-rage! Not here where it would perceived as disrespectful to admonish someone for bad driving, particularly if he/she has a better can than you. Road craft is not taught here, a driving licence is not important as being caught without one is sorted out with 200 baht bribe. Combine this normal bad mannered driving with copious amounts of alcohol and the holiday spirit and this is the result. Year after year over every holiday, Songkran, New Year and Loy Kratong. I love Thailand and rarely diss the place but is something they need to look at and quickly.

As i have said before. Its about time that the Thai govt started issuing visa/work permits for English trained driving instructors.

Wow where will you find the instructors that fluent in Thai? i tried to teach my GF and gave up because of comprehension and she speaks good English I speak read and write Thai...

[slapout]

I wonder how many accidents/deaths/injuries are caused by drugged up drivers? With the self admitted number of drug users in Thailand, by a recent poll, you have to wonder if the authorties are monitoring for this along with the drunks?

Whatever the real contibuting factors to this increase in traffic deaths, we will probably be even less informed of any experts findings, if any attempt is even made, than we are told about any solution to most problems.

[Nisa]

I have heard the annual death toll on the Thai roads tends to be between 15000-17000

320X52 = 16 640

Conclusion, this is normal! It seems at Songkhran we are getting more media coverage, more photos and being told there are more accidents. the truth is that this carnage is going on every single week. Maybe the 'accident rate' is higher during Songkhran with lots of drunk people falling off bikes or people hit in the face with a bucket of ice falling off bikes but not being killed. The death toll however seems pretty standard, so to hear a politician wanting to bring in stricter rules concerning drink driving, just around this time is none sense, and simply the act of a man who is playing the crowd for votes. Road safety is a serious issue in Thailand and something needs doing all of the time, not just 7 days a year.

I fully agree with the point of your conclusion but I think the fatality rates you are quoting are old. As I mentioned previously, the rates have been trending down a while now. Even though the rates were falling during 2000 thru 2007, the average per year was 12,800. Previously I couldn't find more updated stats but then came across stats for 2009 which put the rate at 11,600 per year which makes sense since the figures in the other (2000-2007) report had the figures down to 12,000 per year in the later years. Bottom line is there is just no way you will ever not see an increase in deaths during a festive (drinking) holiday unless you become a police state and only care about road fatalities if they occur on a holiday. However, you can bring the numbers down each holiday (along with the rest of the year) by simply addressing the issues all year round.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Nisa

[Kananga]

In a country where the climate is good all year round and 70% of the vehicles on the road are motorbikes, you are always going to having higher road fatality numbers ... especially with the lack of helmet use.

Surely good climate should decrease the fatalities. No snow, longer days in winter, no ice on the roads etc. Just goes to show how horrendous Thailand is compared to other countries in Asia like Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Korea.

[Kananga]

I have heard the annual death toll on the Thai roads tends to be between 15000-17000

320X52 = 16 640

Conclusion, this is normal! It seems at Songkhran we are getting more media coverage, more photos and being told there are more accidents. the truth is that this carnage is going on every single week. Maybe the 'accident rate' is higher during Songkhran with lots of drunk people falling off bikes or people hit in the face with a bucket of ice falling off bikes but not being killed. The death toll however seems pretty standard, so to hear a politician wanting to bring in stricter rules concerning drink driving, just around this time is none sense, and simply the act of a man who is playing the crowd for votes. Road safety is a serious issue in Thailand and something needs doing all of the time, not just 7 days a year.

I fully agree with the point of your conclusion but I think the fatality rates you are quoting are old. As I mentioned previously, the rates have been trending down a while now. Even though the rates were falling during 2000 thru 2007, the average per year was 12,800. Previously I couldn't find more updated stats but then came across stats for 2009 which put the rate at 11,600 per year which makes sense since the figures in the other (2000-2007) report had the figures down to 12,000 per year in the later years. Bottom line is there is just no way you will ever not see an increase in deaths during a festive (drinking) holiday unless you become a police state and only care about road fatalities if they occur on a holiday. However, you can bring the numbers down each holiday (along with the rest of the year) by simply addressing the issues all year round.

Which Thailand obviously isnt doing if there were 18% more deaths this year than last year. 18% is a huge amount. Honestly, you have to wonder what the authorities are doing. Compared to neighbouring countries with the exception of Myanmar these lot are a bunch of clowns and the majority of people are not much better. Throwing iced water over motorbikes, children playing and throwing water in 4 lane roads, drink driving out of control. People in neighbouring countries must look at these figures and think what a load of idiots.

[ydraw]

We can't tell them how to do things. We must respect their culture. Anything else is neo-colonialism.

you say that like colonialism was a bad thing

[Sjptain]

I don't think it will ever improve until the people who are setting the rules/regulations are people who actually sat and passed driving tests abroad and realise why it's harder to pass the tests abroad rather than Thailand. They are unlikely to fix a system when they do not know any better and no matter how much we point this out it won't make a blind bit of difference.

No doubt it will be put down to drink and it's only a matter of time before it will be a total ban during these days and then they will scratch their heads why things are still not getting better.

[PoodMaiDai]

320... need... to... buy... lotto... ticket....

[KKK]

Percentages are difference from previous year.

2012 - Accident = 3,129.(- 2.7%)....Death = 320 (+ 18.4%)..Injury = 3,320 (- 4.5%)

2011 - Accident = 3,215.(- 8.6%)....Death = 271 (- 24.9%)...Injury = 3,476 (- 8.6%)

2010 - Accident = 3,516.(- 11.6%)..Death = 361 (- 12%)......Injury = 3,802 (- 12%)

2009 - Accident = 3,977.(- 6.2%)....Death = 373 (+ 1.4%)....Injury = 4,322 (- 9.8%)

2008 - Accident = 4,243..................Death = 368...................Injury = 4,793

Over all ...

Accidents down 26.3% since 2008

Injuries down 30.7% since 2008

Fatalities down 13.0% since 2008

Anything more than ZERO to too many.....statistics will not bring down the death/accident/injury rate...sensible driving will.

Edited April 20, 2012 by KKK

[KKK]

I haven't looked at any local news stories in a while but one thing that would bring the numbers down (and provide good ratings) is to focus on some specific accidents (related to seatbelt, helmet, speed, drinking...) showing photos/videos of the wreck, interviewing family members (or drunk driver) and doing a brief bio of the victim's lives while sending home the message these are just some stories that make up the 100s who die on the road during Songkran and thousands who die each year on the road.

People are much more receptive to learning when they can relate it to themselves and putting out numbers as they do each year doesn't have any real impact on improving things.

How about some government sponsored speaker vans blasting out some road safety messages rather than advertising the latest condo for sale or some rock concert.

[Kananga]

Percentages are difference from previous year.

2012 - Accident = 3,129.(- 2.7%)....Death = 320 (+ 18.4%)..Injury = 3,320 (- 4.5%)

2011 - Accident = 3,215.(- 8.6%)....Death = 271 (- 24.9%)...Injury = 3,476 (- 8.6%)

2010 - Accident = 3,516.(- 11.6%)..Death = 361 (- 12%)......Injury = 3,802 (- 12%)

2009 - Accident = 3,977.(- 6.2%)....Death = 373 (+ 1.4%)....Injury = 4,322 (- 9.8%)

2008 - Accident = 4,243..................Death = 368...................Injury = 4,793

Over all ...

Accidents down 26.3% since 2008

Injuries down 30.7% since 2008

Fatalities down 13.0% since 2008

Anything more than ZERO to too many.....statistics will not bring down the death/accident/injury rate...sensible driving will.

Especially when the deaths are up 18% over last year. Thats a shocking figure. What a shameful failure.

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed. Posting the same message across multiple topics is the same as spamming.

[Bagwan]

320 in 7 days. That is a lot. Even 1 is too much.

This has been going on for years. How many deaths does it take to change a fxxxx system?

I guess all the BS about how there will be prohibition on drinks and driving was just such; a photo shoot for the top of the elite.

Never mind, relax, TI_AMAZING_T.

Not really a big deal with re-incarnation. You are trying to apply Western concepts to the East. What does death matter when you get an instant rebirth? Perhaps a better birth. This is probably whey they don't really care if they live or die and neither does the government. We can't tell them how to do things. We must respect their culture. Anything else is neo-colonialism. We must accept some cultures think life is incredibly important and for others its just another chance for re-birth. We in the West think their is only one life. This is why will never understand their perspective.

320 in 7 days. That is a lot. Even 1 is too much.

This has been going on for years. How many deaths does it take to change a fxxxx system?

I guess all the BS about how there will be prohibition on drinks and driving was just such; a photo shoot for the top of the elite.

Never mind, relax, TI_AMAZING_T.

Not really a big deal with re-incarnation. You are trying to apply Western concepts to the East. What does death matter when you get an instant rebirth? Perhaps a better birth. This is probably whey they don't really care if they live or die and neither does the government. We can't tell them how to do things. We must respect their culture. Anything else is neo-colonialism. We must accept some cultures think life is incredibly important and for others its just another chance for re-birth. We in the West think their is only one life. This is why will never understand their perspective.

So you think that closing all the hospitals and sending doctors and nursing staff overseas is a good idea?

I cannot think of too many places where immigrants totaly absorb the local culture. Been to Southall or Bradford recently?