Thai Women And Cleanliness?

[blabbel]

the point i am trying to make is with all this pc attitude and sexist equality being pushed by the do gooders the divorce rate and general tolerance of one person to the next has markedly deteriorated all through the civilsed world.

pray tell me if i am wrong but first look at the statistics.

so my hat is off to the numbskulls for making the world a more tolerant and understanding place.

and please keep up the good work.

Yeah, them "girls" aren't as "sweet" as they used to be in the good old days, they're not happy and contend cleaning the house any more.

One needs to travel half-way across the globe these days. What's the world coming to?

Perhaps you could point to some of these statistics you refer to?

Aren't you the guy who was going on about statistics and then failed to show any to back your claims when we were discussing crime & punishment?

Calling others "numbskulls", are you?

[blabbel]

Perhaps you have a reading problem....try re reading my post then try to understand it....

No, I don't, usually.

As you said yourself:

A lot of the girls who come here with their bf's are doing so to experience what the real life is, so that they know what you are like in working mode and not the "good time" holiday mode....after all they have already seen that side of you.

It's just that I wouldn't refer to this as " taking the girl on a holiday", I didn't imply anything more.

My mates girl (woman) was here for 10 days about a year ago and she had your sort of holiday....but you know what???...she said to me that she longed to stay longer so she could show him that she could keep house for him, do his washing and cleaning etc....she wanted to show him that she could be a good wife...And you know what????....I could not find fault with that because it was what she wanted to do.

I can't find any fault with this, either, what is your point?

Funny what some guys project onto others after they made a critical post or two.

[Boo]

I could not find fault with that because it was what she wanted to do.

But so many find fault when a women wants a career or has to work out of the home.

[gburns57au]

I could not find fault with that because it was what she wanted to do.

But so many find fault when a women wants a career or has to work out of the home.

I agree Boo....I have nothing against a woman wanting a career....if that is what she wants...everyone regardless of race, creed or sex should be able to have the choice to do what they desire...and shouldnt have to face criticism because they choose to follow that path. whether it is the traditional way or the new age way.

[LoveDaBlues]

My thai wife of 8 years impeccably clean. i am not out of bed for 2 minutes and the bed

is made, breakfast on the table, a beautiful smile, beautiful thin body and a voice that

could melt a tile on the Space Shuttle. PM me i'll send u photo.

American girls, well i found them lazy, spoiled and getting them to clean is like picking

a safe at Fort Knox. I am not attacking anyone, just my experience. I am sure there

might be some good ones, i just never heard anyone find one.

My wife came back to the US with me and after a week i sat down with her and asked her

"well u here now, what u want do? you want car and friends". She said "no my job take

care husband". I stumbled outside and fell to my face and grabbed handfuls of dirt

and yelled YESSSSSSSSSSS!

The only problem i have run into is when my wife wai's me when i come home, the American

ladies dont like for some reason. My wife doesnt understand why they dont respect their husbands.

take care

nam

Hey nam....sounds like you married my wife's sister....LOL. But my wife doesn't wai....oh well I'll have to live with that! My sweety is from a small village in Issan. I agree with you 100%...your best chance is with a country girl.....not Bangkok, Chiang Mai, etc..

Wow........8 years together.....congrats.....hope you have a lot more!!!!!!

Steve

[opothai]

the point i am trying to make is with all this pc attitude and sexist equality being pushed by the do gooders the divorce rate and general tolerance of one person to the next has markedly deteriorated all through the civilsed world.

pray tell me if i am wrong but first look at the statistics.

so my hat is off to the numbskulls for making the world a more tolerant and understanding place.

and please keep up the good work.

Yeah, them "girls" aren't as "sweet" as they used to be in the good old days, they're not happy and contend cleaning the house any more.

i agree, that seems to be the problem

One needs to travel half-way across the globe these days. What's the world coming to?

and yes that seems to be the solution, it is nice to agree on these matters

Perhaps you could point to some of these statistics you refer to?

look up divorce rate[ google]

Aren't you the guy who was going on about statistics and then failed to show any to back your claims when we were discussing crime & punishment?

again look up crime in the uk, usa, homicides thialand [google

Calling others "numbskulls", are you?

you yes

stats are available to any one with the endevour to look them up, if i wish to state that they are stats i would have done my own homework,

blubble are you a boy or a girl.

[gburns57au]

Perhaps you have a reading problem....try re reading my post then try to understand it....

No, I don't, usually.

As you said yourself:

A lot of the girls who come here with their bf's are doing so to experience what the real life is, so that they know what you are like in working mode and not the "good time" holiday mode....after all they have already seen that side of you.

It's just that I wouldn't refer to this as " taking the girl on a holiday", I didn't imply anything more.

My mates girl (woman) was here for 10 days about a year ago and she had your sort of holiday....but you know what???...she said to me that she longed to stay longer so she could show him that she could keep house for him, do his washing and cleaning etc....she wanted to show him that she could be a good wife...And you know what????....I could not find fault with that because it was what she wanted to do.

I can't find any fault with this, either, what is your point?

Funny what some guys project onto others after they made a critical post or two.

Flip flopping is not exactly a good debating tactic....if you want to debate then stick to your guns...dont start changing your position....it makes for a boring debate and show your weaknesses. You did imply...admit it...be strong...For a post to be critical it must have the effect of softening the other persons stance....you havent done that yet with your comments...oh sorry...you did mean that your posts were critical didnt you ???

[blabbel]

Yeah, them "girls" aren't as "sweet" as they used to be in the good old days, they're not happy and contend cleaning the house any more.

i agree, that seems to be the problem

One needs to travel half-way across the globe these days. What's the world coming to?

and yes that seems to be the solution, it is nice to agree on these matters

stats are available to any one with the endevour to look them up, if i wish to state that they are stats i would have done my own homework,

Thank you for admitting you are one of the sorry guys who can't cope with the changes that happened in their country for the last few decades.

look up divorce rate

....

again look up crime in the uk, usa, homicides thialand

So divorce rates prove that "with all this pc attitude and sexist equality being pushed by the do gooders the divorce rate and general tolerance of one person to the next has markedly deteriorated all through the civilsed world."

Please post just one statistic, since these are so readily available!

Flip flopping is not exactly a good debating tactic....if you want to debate then stick to your guns...dont start changing your position....it makes for a boring debate and show your weaknesses. You did imply...admit it...be strong...For a post to be critical it must have the effect of softening the other persons stance....you havent done that yet with your comments...oh sorry...you did mean that your posts were critical didnt you ???

My comment which caused you to post several lengthy comments justifying how much these "girls" enjoy doing housework when visiting:

Yeah, that's often fine for a so-called 'holiday', while she doesn't know anyone in a foreign country and it's for a limited period.

What exactly did I "imply"?

Seems to be all homemade projections causing your, at first, defensive, now a lttle more 'of'fensive comments.

Better look at your own assumptions and insecurity before accusing me of anything.

Edited January 16, 2006 by blabbel

[opothai]

Yeah, them "girls" aren't as "sweet" as they used to be in the good old days, they're not happy and contend cleaning the house any more.

i agree, that seems to be the problem

One needs to travel half-way across the globe these days. What's the world coming to?

and yes that seems to be the solution, it is nice to agree on these matters

stats are available to any one with the endevour to look them up, if i wish to state that they are stats i would have done my own homework,

Thank you for admitting you are one of the sorry guys who can't cope with the changes that happened in their country for the last few decades.

i can cope with the situation i am just not happy with it

look up divorce rate

....

again look up crime in the uk, usa, homicides thialand

So divorce rates prove that "with all this pc attitude and sexist equality being pushed by the do gooders the divorce rate and general tolerance of one person to the next has markedly deteriorated all through the civilsed world."

Please post just one statistic, since these are so readily available!

ok ok you win the divorce rate is lower and we are all living in harmony

i do not need to post any statistic on this all you should have to do is ask the many friends you must have what has happened over the past decade or 2, if not do your own search and prove me wrong

it would be interesting to hear what your colourful views as to why we have such a high divorce rate and the violence has increased towards each other.

[gburns57au]

Flip flopping is not exactly a good debating tactic....if you want to debate then stick to your guns...dont start changing your position....it makes for a boring debate and show your weaknesses. You did imply...admit it...be strong...For a post to be critical it must have the effect of softening the other persons stance....you havent done that yet with your comments...oh sorry...you did mean that your posts were critical didnt you ???

My comment which caused you to post several lengthy comments justifying how much these "girls" enjoy doing housework when visiting:

Yeah, that's often fine for a so-called 'holiday', while she doesn't know anyone in a foreign country and it's for a limited period.

What exactly did I "imply"?

Seems to be all homemade projections causing your, at first, defensive, now a lttle more 'of'fensive comments.

Better look at your own assumptions and insecurity before accusing me of anything.

I dont need to accuse you of anything because you do that well enough on your own. Once again you have shown through many threads that you choose selected portions of a post to make a comment on. Comments that are designed to provoke a reaction but comments which are not really worthy of honest debate....If you want to debate me then please provide substance for debate. I can answer smart acre comments all day...I do that at work.....but it is not really a debate now, is it ????

[opothai]

gburns57au

is this chap or chappess blubble a school kid or is he just provoking reactions, not worthy of replying.

you seem to have come across him/her before, just say the word and i'll stop wasting my time feeding this person.

regards

opothai

[gburns57au]

gburns57au

is this chap or chappess blubble a school kid or is he just provoking reactions, not worthy of replying.

you seem to have come across him/her before, just say the word and i'll stop wasting my time feeding this person.

regards

opothai

The Word

[opothai]

gburns57au

is this chap or chappess blubble a school kid or is he just provoking reactions, not worthy of replying.

you seem to have come across him/her before, just say the word and i'll stop wasting my time feeding this person.

regards

opothai

The Word

done

[sbk]

Just a little fact here, since some of you seem to think that women's equality has something to do with a rising crime rate. Thailand has double the per capita murder rate of the US.

Rank Country Amount (top to bottom)

#1 Colombia 0.617847 per 1,000 people

#2 South Africa 0.496008 per 1,000 people

#3 Jamaica 0.324196 per 1,000 people

#4 Venezuela 0.316138 per 1,000 people

#5 Russia 0.201534 per 1,000 people

#6 Mexico 0.130213 per 1,000 people

#7 Estonia 0.107277 per 1,000 people

#8 Latvia 0.10393 per 1,000 people

#9 Lithuania 0.102863 per 1,000 people

#10 Belarus 0.0983495 per 1,000 people

#11 Ukraine 0.094006 per 1,000 people

#12 Papua New Guinea 0.0838593 per 1,000 people

#13 Kyrgyzstan 0.0802565 per 1,000 people

#14 Thailand 0.0800798 per 1,000 people

#15 Moldova 0.0781145 per 1,000 people

#16 Zimbabwe 0.0749938 per 1,000 people

#17 Seychelles 0.0739025 per 1,000 people

#18 Zambia 0.070769 per 1,000 people

#19 Costa Rica 0.061006 per 1,000 people

#20 Poland 0.0562789 per 1,000 people

#21 Georgia 0.0511011 per 1,000 people

#22 Uruguay 0.045082 per 1,000 people

#23 Bulgaria 0.0445638 per 1,000 people

#24 United States 0.042802 per 1,000 people

#25 Armenia 0.0425746 per 1,000 people

#26 India 0.0344083 per 1,000 people

#27 Yemen 0.0336276 per 1,000 people

#28 Dominica 0.0289733 per 1,000 people

#29 Azerbaijan 0.0285642 per 1,000 people

#30 Finland 0.0283362 per 1,000 people

#31 Slovakia 0.0263303 per 1,000 people

#32 Romania 0.0250784 per 1,000 people

#33 Portugal 0.0233769 per 1,000 people

#34 Malaysia 0.0230034 per 1,000 people

#35 Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of 0.0229829 per 1,000 people

#36 Mauritius 0.021121 per 1,000 people

#37 Hungary 0.0204857 per 1,000 people

#38 Korea, South 0.0196336 per 1,000 people

#39 Slovenia 0.0179015 per 1,000 people

#40 France 0.0173272 per 1,000 people

#41 Czech Republic 0.0169905 per 1,000 people

#42 Iceland 0.0168499 per 1,000 people

#43 Australia 0.0150324 per 1,000 people

#44 Canada 0.0149063 per 1,000 people

#45 Chile 0.014705 per 1,000 people

#46 United Kingdom 0.0140633 per 1,000 people

#47 Italy 0.0128393 per 1,000 people

#48 Spain 0.0122456 per 1,000 people

#49 Germany 0.0116461 per 1,000 people

#50 Tunisia 0.0112159 per 1,000 people

#51 Netherlands 0.0111538 per 1,000 people

#52 New Zealand 0.0111524 per 1,000 people

#53 Denmark 0.0106775 per 1,000 people

#54 Norway 0.0106684 per 1,000 people

#55 Ireland 0.00946215 per 1,000 people

#56 Switzerland 0.00921351 per 1,000 people

#57 Indonesia 0.00910842 per 1,000 people

#58 Greece 0.0075928 per 1,000 people

#59 Hong Kong 0.00550804 per 1,000 people

#60 Japan 0.00499933 per 1,000 people

#61 Saudi Arabia 0.00397456 per 1,000 people

#62 Qatar 0.00115868 per 1,000 people

Source: UN Survey of Crime trends 1998-2000

If you'll look closely, the countries with the worst records of women's rights are right there down at the bottom with some of the best.

As for cleanliness. well someone forgot to tell my (female Thai) neighbors not to throw their rubbish over the balcony into the garden below. And then yesterday, to clean it up, they doused it with gasoline and torched it. Lovely.

[gburns57au]

I am still waiting for an answer to my reply on your last post on this thread

Just a little fact here, since some of you seem to think that women's equality has something to do with a rising crime rate. Thailand has double the per capita murder rate of the US.

Rank Country Amount (top to bottom)

#1 Colombia 0.617847 per 1,000 people

#2 South Africa 0.496008 per 1,000 people

#3 Jamaica 0.324196 per 1,000 people

#4 Venezuela 0.316138 per 1,000 people

#5 Russia 0.201534 per 1,000 people

#6 Mexico 0.130213 per 1,000 people

#7 Estonia 0.107277 per 1,000 people

#8 Latvia 0.10393 per 1,000 people

#9 Lithuania 0.102863 per 1,000 people

#10 Belarus 0.0983495 per 1,000 people

#11 Ukraine 0.094006 per 1,000 people

#12 Papua New Guinea 0.0838593 per 1,000 people

#13 Kyrgyzstan 0.0802565 per 1,000 people

#14 Thailand 0.0800798 per 1,000 people

#15 Moldova 0.0781145 per 1,000 people

#16 Zimbabwe 0.0749938 per 1,000 people

#17 Seychelles 0.0739025 per 1,000 people

#18 Zambia 0.070769 per 1,000 people

#19 Costa Rica 0.061006 per 1,000 people

#20 Poland 0.0562789 per 1,000 people

#21 Georgia 0.0511011 per 1,000 people

#22 Uruguay 0.045082 per 1,000 people

#23 Bulgaria 0.0445638 per 1,000 people

#24 United States 0.042802 per 1,000 people

#25 Armenia 0.0425746 per 1,000 people

#26 India 0.0344083 per 1,000 people

#27 Yemen 0.0336276 per 1,000 people

#28 Dominica 0.0289733 per 1,000 people

#29 Azerbaijan 0.0285642 per 1,000 people

#30 Finland 0.0283362 per 1,000 people

#31 Slovakia 0.0263303 per 1,000 people

#32 Romania 0.0250784 per 1,000 people

#33 Portugal 0.0233769 per 1,000 people

#34 Malaysia 0.0230034 per 1,000 people

#35 Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of 0.0229829 per 1,000 people

#36 Mauritius 0.021121 per 1,000 people

#37 Hungary 0.0204857 per 1,000 people

#38 Korea, South 0.0196336 per 1,000 people

#39 Slovenia 0.0179015 per 1,000 people

#40 France 0.0173272 per 1,000 people

#41 Czech Republic 0.0169905 per 1,000 people

#42 Iceland 0.0168499 per 1,000 people

#43 Australia 0.0150324 per 1,000 people

#44 Canada 0.0149063 per 1,000 people

#45 Chile 0.014705 per 1,000 people

#46 United Kingdom 0.0140633 per 1,000 people

#47 Italy 0.0128393 per 1,000 people

#48 Spain 0.0122456 per 1,000 people

#49 Germany 0.0116461 per 1,000 people

#50 Tunisia 0.0112159 per 1,000 people

#51 Netherlands 0.0111538 per 1,000 people

#52 New Zealand 0.0111524 per 1,000 people

#53 Denmark 0.0106775 per 1,000 people

#54 Norway 0.0106684 per 1,000 people

#55 Ireland 0.00946215 per 1,000 people

#56 Switzerland 0.00921351 per 1,000 people

#57 Indonesia 0.00910842 per 1,000 people

#58 Greece 0.0075928 per 1,000 people

#59 Hong Kong 0.00550804 per 1,000 people

#60 Japan 0.00499933 per 1,000 people

#61 Saudi Arabia 0.00397456 per 1,000 people

#62 Qatar 0.00115868 per 1,000 people

Source: UN Survey of Crime trends 1998-2000

If you'll look closely, the countries with the worst records of women's rights are right there down at the bottom with some of the best.

As for cleanliness. well someone forgot to tell my (female Thai) neighbors not to throw their rubbish over the balcony into the garden below. And then yesterday, to clean it up, they doused it with gasoline and torched it. Lovely.

[opothai]

Just a little fact here, since some of you seem to think that women's equality has something to do with a rising crime rate. Thailand has double the per capita murder rate of the US.

If you'll look closely, the countries with the worst records of women's rights are right there down at the bottom with some of the best.

As for cleanliness. well someone forgot to tell my (female Thai) neighbors not to throw their rubbish over the balcony into the garden below. And then yesterday, to clean it up, they doused it with gasoline and torched it. Lovely.

sbk

you seem to have got it wrong with your interpritation of whats going on here.

briefly we were discussing why breakdowns in marriages and tolerance towards each other has worsened over the past couple of decades, then blubble starts bringing up posts from months and months ago asking for stats and sources which had nothing to do our debating this topic and i'm afraid that is where you have come in. womens rights have zero to do with any homicide rates[although some might believe it could have an impact on suicide rates ]

any way never mind eh!

[kerryk]

I worked in the health care business in the US for 15 years. The company had one thousand employees. On the management level 99% of the managers were female I was one of three male managers. Before that I taught at an all female college and was the only male professor/department head and the only male employee of the college. All of the women at the college had masters degrees or PhD’s. I was the fly on the wall and heard discussions like this one at least weekly.

The world that 50’s plus men grew up in has radically changed because of women entering the work force during WW II and automobiles. The small town ideal with large extended families has become urbanized and mobile and fragmented. The family unit is irrevocably changed. Women have irrevocably changed. Many many things that was OK when I was a kid are now taboo.

I liked my father and his friends. They were a happy bunch even if politically incorrect and womanizers and boozers and smokers. None of them were divorced none of their wives ever worked outside the home and they raised kids and put them through college and by and large were honest in their business dealings and they lived in clean well organized homes. We never locked the door to our home and always left the keys in the car. I had never met anyone who had been robbed or who had a home broken into. There were few single women raising children. It was a happier time.

It is a time I am reminded of when I visit my Thai companions home in Phichit. Three generations are there and they all get along and everyone has a well defined role. There no gender issues. It has been my experience that Thai women run the family especially in child rearing issues. Thais are happier than Farangs.

When my father reached 50 he promoted his secretary of 25 years to a Vice President position in his company and hired two 19 year old secretaries. Eisenhower had a mistress as did Roosevelt and Kennedy had many and no one raised an eyebrow.

Now although that is still technically possible it is considered in bad taste. Very few men look at Hillary Clinton and will not give Bill a pass on a little extracurricular activity. But they won’t say that out loud.

When a few of us old guys get together it is hard not to compare the relative peace and tranquility of our lives here with the chaos we left behind.

My home is neat organized and clean and no one has yelled at me in a year. It is easy to point to Western women as the difference between peace and upheaval. But the real answer is the tremendous cultural change in the last 50 years. I think the West has handled the economic changes very well but in social areas has fallen down. I don’t think it was intentional but it happened.

I lived here when I was young and was very happy and came back to see if I could regain a little bit of that happiness that had alluded me in the West.

I have an Australian friend who has been married to a young Thai “stunner” for five years. When visiting my home he is constantly amazed at what my Thai Princess does. He tells me what a gem I have in a woman and he is right.

I was married to a stunningly beautiful Western woman who made twice the money I did working half the hours and kept an immaculate house. I messed up the relationship and she divorced me so I don’t have a personal bone to pick with anyone.

I don’t avoid Western woman here but when the discussion turns (and it inevitably does) to gender issues I politely excuse myself and go home.

[robitusson]

so it seems if she marry you...that´s gonna be her job...

are you plannig to do some housekeeping yourself?

Because if so you could teach her on how to clean...some people don´t know how to clean....

I just want to add (don´t mean to offence) your topic is a bit sexist...

I think you should have involved both sexes male and female...

My experience is that thai people keep their house in middle standar of cleaning...they don´t have their houses desinfected but they are clean...

of course you can find dirty people and clean people like everywhere...

So my post is still irritating people...

Robitusson...

Even though I sound like it I am not a "Police feminist"....

well I am going to tell you way it sound to me sexist...

Sorry, maybe a strange question. I am seriously considering marriage to a sweet Thai girl and although I would not change my mind if she did not keep a clean house, but I do want to know what to expect.

This sentence implies that is her task to keep the house clean. This sentence do not implies if she is gonna work or not..

later the OP told me that she is not going to work so he thinks that they should share tasks...he will work outside and she will do the house work...fair enough....

For those of you who have experienced women from different cultures it would be interesting to hear your comments.

This sentence only refers to one sex...female. The OP has implies that women were the ones to keep the house clean in the relationships of the tv members who post in this topic...So it is assumed to be a women job...

I realize you have all sorts in every culture and I do not wish to be sterotypical, but I think in every culture there are some things that are consistent.

In general, do Thai women keep a clean house?

The last sentence again implies that is a women task...

So here you are again blabbel

What is so strange about this question? - let me spell it out for you:

1. that the poster doesn't know the standard of cleaniless of someone he wants to marry

2. the choice of words, i.e."sweet Thai girl"

3. the implicit assumption that it's her task to keep the house clean, which, together with 2., makes the comment sound 'sexist'.

I don´t have a problem of choice of words "sweet thai girl"....and i don´t see that the sexist comment comes from putting together that sentence and the assumption. The sexist comment IMHO comes from "In general, do Thai women keep a clean house?"

Comprende?

Let me illustrate this by turning it around:

"I am seriously considering marriage to a sweet US boy and although I would not change my mind if he did not keep a clean house, but I do want to know what to expect."

This is not a good example for a turning around...because you are not playing with sterotypes so it sounds funny...

A good example would be something like...

"I am considering to marry a nice US boy and although I would not change my mind if he don´t sustain me and my family financially i don´t know what to expect"

or

I am considering to marry a nice English boy and althougn I am not sure If he likes to sleep with 18 years old hookers I do want to know if this is as common as it seems. In general, do farang man like to sleep with hookers 30 years younger than them?

Would you say this comment was a bit 'strange'? Surprised if any men here challenged the attitude?

Actually, I don't mind, it adds to the flavour of this diverse forum.

However, I DO have a problem with the denial, deliberate misinterpretation and snide attacks which usually follow after comments like this are challenged, it's dishonest and irritating.

why to challenge a comment is dishonest?

Well I challenge the OP comment because we have different points of view...but we can disscuss them can´t we? That´s one wayof learning from other people experiences ...we just state our different opinion without being rude and without bashing each other Is that so irritating? Now you are challenging mine So what is the difference between you and me? Are you also dishonest and irritating?

None of the people who comment something about my post (including easttech) say anything about my advice of teach her how to clean if she doesn´t know how to...I think is a good advice. My mother taugh me how to clean and I have taugh to my ex-boyfriend and some other friends because they didn´t know how to do it.

However all of you were more focus on my little comment which became the most important part of my post, overlooking my sensible advice....

Edit*:I have re-read this again...

I don´t know if I understood your post well Blabbel...so tell if i misunderstood you...

still i going to keep my original post...

If one lives in a domicile, apartment, house, villa, palace, flat, cottage or cardboard box on the side of the road, then cleaning said dwelling is ones responsability. If a man marries a woman he may prefer his wife to clean where they live from time to time. This does not imply that it his her task or that it is not the task of a man. However you decided to take offense when none was given. Also implying that wanting a lady to clean up her mess is similar somehow to a man sleeping with 18 year old hookers is evidence of where these bitter comments are coming from. I had thought this was too ridiculous to reply to but maybe not after all.

[sbk]

Just a little fact here, since some of you seem to think that women's equality has something to do with a rising crime rate. Thailand has double the per capita murder rate of the US.

If you'll look closely, the countries with the worst records of women's rights are right there down at the bottom with some of the best.

As for cleanliness. well someone forgot to tell my (female Thai) neighbors not to throw their rubbish over the balcony into the garden below. And then yesterday, to clean it up, they doused it with gasoline and torched it. Lovely.

sbk

you seem to have got it wrong with your interpritation of whats going on here.

briefly we were discussing why breakdowns in marriages and tolerance towards each other has worsened over the past couple of decades, then blubble starts bringing up posts from months and months ago asking for stats and sources which had nothing to do our debating this topic and i'm afraid that is where you have come in. womens rights have zero to do with any homicide rates[although some might believe it could have an impact on suicide rates ]

any way never mind eh!

I shouldn't admit this, being a mod, but I just couldn't be bothered reading all the dross and just picked out something that struck me as foolishness in the extreme.

Sorry for hijacking! Back on topic, which, I guess is, is it being sexist to expect one's wife to be clean? or do all the housework, or something?

Does this thread have a topic?

[robitusson]

Just a little fact here, since some of you seem to think that women's equality has something to do with a rising crime rate. Thailand has double the per capita murder rate of the US.

If you'll look closely, the countries with the worst records of women's rights are right there down at the bottom with some of the best.

As for cleanliness. well someone forgot to tell my (female Thai) neighbors not to throw their rubbish over the balcony into the garden below. And then yesterday, to clean it up, they doused it with gasoline and torched it. Lovely.

sbk

you seem to have got it wrong with your interpritation of whats going on here.

briefly we were discussing why breakdowns in marriages and tolerance towards each other has worsened over the past couple of decades, then blubble starts bringing up posts from months and months ago asking for stats and sources which had nothing to do our debating this topic and i'm afraid that is where you have come in. womens rights have zero to do with any homicide rates[although some might believe it could have an impact on suicide rates ]

any way never mind eh!

I shouldn't admit this, being a mod, but I just couldn't be bothered reading all the dross and just picked out something that struck me as foolishness in the extreme.

Sorry for hijacking! Back on topic, which, I guess is, is it being sexist to expect one's wife to be clean? or do all the housework, or something?

Does this thread have a topic?

I think it's called "Pounce on anybody who expects anything at all of women "

[opothai]

I worked in the health care business in the US for 15 years. The company had one thousand employees. On the management level 99% of the managers were female I was one of three male managers. Before that I taught at an all female college and was the only male professor/department head and the only male employee of the college. All of the women at the college had masters degrees or PhD’s. I was the fly on the wall and heard discussions like this one at least weekly.

The world that 50’s plus men grew up in has radically changed because of women entering the work force during WW II and automobiles. The small town ideal with large extended families has become urbanized and mobile and fragmented. The family unit is irrevocably changed. Women have irrevocably changed. Many many things that was OK when I was a kid are now taboo.

I liked my father and his friends. They were a happy bunch even if politically incorrect and womanizers and boozers and smokers. None of them were divorced none of their wives ever worked outside the home and they raised kids and put them through college and by and large were honest in their business dealings and they lived in clean well organized homes. We never locked the door to our home and always left the keys in the car. I had never met anyone who had been robbed or who had a home broken into. There were few single women raising children. It was a happier time.

It is a time I am reminded of when I visit my Thai companions home in Phichit. Three generations are there and they all get along and everyone has a well defined role. There no gender issues. It has been my experience that Thai women run the family especially in child rearing issues. Thais are happier than Farangs.

When my father reached 50 he promoted his secretary of 25 years to a Vice President position in his company and hired two 19 year old secretaries. Eisenhower had a mistress as did Roosevelt and Kennedy had many and no one raised an eyebrow.

Now although that is still technically possible it is considered in bad taste. Very few men look at Hillary Clinton and will not give Bill a pass on a little extracurricular activity. But they won’t say that out loud.

When a few of us old guys get together it is hard not to compare the relative peace and tranquility of our lives here with the chaos we left behind.

My home is neat organized and clean and no one has yelled at me in a year. It is easy to point to Western women as the difference between peace and upheaval. But the real answer is the tremendous cultural change in the last 50 years. I think the West has handled the economic changes very well but in social areas has fallen down. I don’t think it was intentional but it happened.

I lived here when I was young and was very happy and came back to see if I could regain a little bit of that happiness that had alluded me in the West.

I have an Australian friend who has been married to a young Thai “stunner” for five years. When visiting my home he is constantly amazed at what my Thai Princess does. He tells me what a gem I have in a woman and he is right.

I was married to a stunningly beautiful Western woman who made twice the money I did working half the hours and kept an immaculate house. I messed up the relationship and she divorced me so I don’t have a personal bone to pick with anyone.

I don’t avoid Western woman here but when the discussion turns (and it inevitably does) to gender issues I politely excuse myself and go home.

well sir my hat is off to you i've been trying to get a point like this across all through this topic,

and i could not have put it down on paper any better than this.

[Boo]

I think it's called "Pounce on anybody who expects anything at all of women "

Jeez, talk abut sensitive, let it go will ya

[easttech]

Just a little fact here, since some of you seem to think that women's equality has something to do with a rising crime rate. Thailand has double the per capita murder rate of the US.

If you'll look closely, the countries with the worst records of women's rights are right there down at the bottom with some of the best.

As for cleanliness. well someone forgot to tell my (female Thai) neighbors not to throw their rubbish over the balcony into the garden below. And then yesterday, to clean it up, they doused it with gasoline and torched it. Lovely.

sbk

you seem to have got it wrong with your interpritation of whats going on here.

briefly we were discussing why breakdowns in marriages and tolerance towards each other has worsened over the past couple of decades, then blubble starts bringing up posts from months and months ago asking for stats and sources which had nothing to do our debating this topic and i'm afraid that is where you have come in. womens rights have zero to do with any homicide rates[although some might believe it could have an impact on suicide rates ]

any way never mind eh!

I shouldn't admit this, being a mod, but I just couldn't be bothered reading all the dross and just picked out something that struck me as foolishness in the extreme.

Sorry for hijacking! Back on topic, which, I guess is, is it being sexist to expect one's wife to be clean? or do all the housework, or something?

Does this thread have a topic?

Yes it does have a topic, and a failry basic one at that. It somehow has taken on a life of its own. It started with "In general, do Thai women keep a clean house?". I think my problem was that I added other details that some people twisted and turned it into something it was not. There were also considerable liberties taken with what is fact and what some believe was fact even though it was not stated. That must have come from the horrible "S" word, stereotyping. In any case 50% of it was an enjoyable read.

[blabbel]

I dont need to accuse you of anything because you do that well enough on your own. Once again you have shown through many threads that you choose selected portions of a post to make a comment on. Comments that are designed to provoke a reaction but comments which are not really worthy of honest debate....If you want to debate me then please provide substance for debate. I can answer smart acre comments all day...I do that at work.....but it is not really a debate now, is it ????

Yes, I often quote only the relevant passage of a comment, for brevity and clarity, something I wish others would do as well, often one has to wade through a lengthy quote when only a few sentences are referred to. Perhaps I tend to err on the short side myself, specially when it's something controversial, I grant you that.

However, I haven't done that here, my last post quoted my post #79 and your comment #97 in completeness (-minus the quote boxes), so your accusation of me doing 'it' again is without any factual base.

".....but it is not really a debate now, is it ????"

No, I have refuted accusations you've thrown at me here merely by pointing at what was said before or not, since this was all that was required.

Some intellectual honesty on your side is called for.

If you want to challenge my comments in another thread (Western women), fine, I admit you could have a valid point there.

[blabbel]

...

briefly we were discussing why breakdowns in marriages and tolerance towards each other has worsened over the past couple of decades, then blubble starts bringing up posts from months and months ago asking for stats and sources which had nothing to do our debating this topic and i'm afraid that is where you have come in. womens rights have zero to do with any homicide rates[although some might believe it could have an impact on suicide rates ]

any way never mind eh!

No, you were referring to statistics, to give your personal assumptions more weight, but failed to produce any to support your rather peculiar views:

...the point i am trying to make is with all this pc attitude and sexist equality being pushed by the do gooders the divorce rate and general tolerance of one person to the next has markedly deteriorated all through the civilsed world.

pray tell me if i am wrong but first look at the statistics.

so my hat is off to the numbskulls for making the world a more tolerant and understanding place. ...

Btw, questioning my gender, age and changing my name doesn't add to your credit.

Try and make a reasoned argument instead, and if statistics support your point, post a link to them.

[Glauka]

so it seems if she marry you...that´s gonna be her job...

are you plannig to do some housekeeping yourself?

Because if so you could teach her on how to clean...some people don´t know how to clean....

I just want to add (don´t mean to offence) your topic is a bit sexist...

I think you should have involved both sexes male and female...

My experience is that thai people keep their house in middle standar of cleaning...they don´t have their houses desinfected but they are clean...

of course you can find dirty people and clean people like everywhere...

So my post is still irritating people...

Robitusson...

Even though I sound like it I am not a "Police feminist"....

well I am going to tell you way it sound to me sexist...

Sorry, maybe a strange question. I am seriously considering marriage to a sweet Thai girl and although I would not change my mind if she did not keep a clean house, but I do want to know what to expect.

This sentence implies that is her task to keep the house clean. This sentence do not implies if she is gonna work or not..

later the OP told me that she is not going to work so he thinks that they should share tasks...he will work outside and she will do the house work...fair enough....

For those of you who have experienced women from different cultures it would be interesting to hear your comments.

This sentence only refers to one sex...female. The OP has implies that women were the ones to keep the house clean in the relationships of the tv members who post in this topic...So it is assumed to be a women job...

I realize you have all sorts in every culture and I do not wish to be sterotypical, but I think in every culture there are some things that are consistent.

In general, do Thai women keep a clean house?

The last sentence again implies that is a women task...

So here you are again blabbel

What is so strange about this question? - let me spell it out for you:

1. that the poster doesn't know the standard of cleaniless of someone he wants to marry

2. the choice of words, i.e."sweet Thai girl"

3. the implicit assumption that it's her task to keep the house clean, which, together with 2., makes the comment sound 'sexist'.

I don´t have a problem of choice of words "sweet thai girl"....and i don´t see that the sexist comment comes from putting together that sentence and the assumption. The sexist comment IMHO comes from "In general, do Thai women keep a clean house?"

Comprende?

Let me illustrate this by turning it around:

"I am seriously considering marriage to a sweet US boy and although I would not change my mind if he did not keep a clean house, but I do want to know what to expect."

This is not a good example for a turning around...because you are not playing with sterotypes so it sounds funny...

A good example would be something like...

"I am considering to marry a nice US boy and although I would not change my mind if he don´t sustain me and my family financially i don´t know what to expect"

or

I am considering to marry a nice English boy and althougn I am not sure If he likes to sleep with 18 years old hookers I do want to know if this is as common as it seems. In general, do farang man like to sleep with hookers 30 years younger than them?

Would you say this comment was a bit 'strange'? Surprised if any men here challenged the attitude?

Actually, I don't mind, it adds to the flavour of this diverse forum.

However, I DO have a problem with the denial, deliberate misinterpretation and snide attacks which usually follow after comments like this are challenged, it's dishonest and irritating.

why to challenge a comment is dishonest?

Well I challenge the OP comment because we have different points of view...but we can disscuss them can´t we? That´s one wayof learning from other people experiences ...we just state our different opinion without being rude and without bashing each other Is that so irritating? Now you are challenging mine So what is the difference between you and me? Are you also dishonest and irritating?

None of the people who comment something about my post (including easttech) say anything about my advice of teach her how to clean if she doesn´t know how to...I think is a good advice. My mother taugh me how to clean and I have taugh to my ex-boyfriend and some other friends because they didn´t know how to do it.

However all of you were more focus on my little comment which became the most important part of my post, overlooking my sensible advice....

Edit*:I have re-read this again...

I don´t know if I understood your post well Blabbel...so tell if i misunderstood you...

still i going to keep my original post...

If one lives in a domicile, apartment, house, villa, palace, flat, cottage or cardboard box on the side of the road, then cleaning said dwelling is ones responsability. If a man marries a woman he may prefer his wife to clean where they live from time to time. This does not imply that it his her task or that it is not the task of a man. However you decided to take offense when none was given. Also implying that wanting a lady to clean up her mess is similar somehow to a man sleeping with 18 year old hookers is evidence of where these bitter comments are coming from. I had thought this was too ridiculous to reply to but maybe not after all.

I normally have patient with the way some people post...I try to be polite and not take it personally...but today i am going to do an exception...why do you think I took offence...I POINT OUT MY OPINION ON THE MATTER...I DISAGREE AND WHEN YOU DISAGREE YOU HAVE AND ARGUMENT... when you have argument you have some discrepancies...because i understand that there are different points of view I don´t feel offence. i listen what the other person have to say and I think about it and try to understand why he/she thinks like that...is he/she is right or not...If I agree....etc...

When I put the example of the hooker it wasn´t refering to the OP or anyone in this topic...

I put that example to play with stereotypes to show that some sterotypes are unfair...because a big number of people will not indetify themselves with that sterotype...

I try to show that men and women haven´t got the same sterotypes...behaviours that are not accepted in men seem funny when a women behave like that...

I put the example as to show that men will have reacted differently if the OP post was something like the example I wrote...BUT IT WAS JUST AN EXAMPLE TO SHOW BLABBEL THAT SOMETIMES THE TURN AROUND DOESN´T WORK do you understand now...

Also I showed why I THOUGH the OP post was sexist the first time i read it....I show which sentence made me have that opinion. In his reply to me the OP told me why I was wrong and why he made that kind of question and believe it or not...I understood him and say nothing more...

But here you are again...

you instead of explain me why this is sexist or not...or give me reasons of why I could have taken the OP post wrongly...and disscuss nicely ...

You first call me FEMINIST POLICE and now you say that my post is ridiculous...Well I am going to tell you something whe I have an argument is because i like to listen different people opinion I can learn different points of view and understand that people have different ideas and ways of thinking...However from people like you i learn nothing...you don´t give me any opinion you just bash my comments...Therefore I learn the same talking to you than to a wall.

So please in the future if you are not going to disscuss with me nicely and give me your pointS of view or experience or anything that can make us both learn something from each other LEAVE ME ALONE.

Edited January 17, 2006 by Glauka

[robitusson]

Fair enough. You're right, labelling people always leads to misunderstanding and conflict.

[opothai]

Does this thread have a topic?

Yes it does have a topic, and a failry basic one at that. It somehow has taken on a life of its own. It started with "In general, do Thai women keep a clean house?". I think my problem was that I added other details that some people twisted and turned it into something it was not. There were also considerable liberties taken with what is fact and what some believe was fact even though it was not stated. That must have come from the horrible "S" word, stereotyping. In any case 50% of it was an enjoyable read.

now now blubble

if i give you some money and some sweeties, be a good little girlie and go to the cinema for an hour or two and leave the adults alone for a while.

[sbk]

now now blubble

if i give you some money and some sweeties, be a good little girlie and go to the cinema for an hour or two and leave the adults alone for a while.

Quit with the condescending bs opothai. If you paid attention that post was made by the OP, easttech and not by blabbel.

Next time think before you post.

[Terminator]

Read Germaine Greer's book "The Whole Woman" on this!

In post industrial societies it is individuals who marry; the nuptial agreement is seen as involving two people only. Even the children they may have together are not party to the agreement between spouses. That agreement has been reliant from the first on the intensity and durability of the sexual attraction between them. If the sexual attraction should lose its potency, if another attraction should eclipse it, the marriage is deemed dead. Such a system is bound to fail; no person can guarantee to be sexually attracted to another for as long as they both shall live. Sex is too anarchic a force and fat too responsive to fantasy to serve as the mortar holding together the building blocks of society. . . modern marriage is fragile because the demands made upon it exceed the tensile strength of the initial sexual bond.

Studies of the frequency of sexual intercourse between the spouses are neither numerous nor reliable, but they all demonstrate the same pattern. The frequency of marital sexual intercourse declines precipitously after the first year before leveling out to a steady, shallow decline. Wives are not sexy. Male sexuality demands the added stimulus of novelty. pg. 258

Comment: Exactly. The male sexuality requires novelty. Brilliantly stated, and answers so many questions. Why did he leave me when I was so good to him? Why does Hugh Grant need to get a hooker when he has Liz Hurley at home, why does a guy ditch his wife of 30 years for a 22 year old....The male sexuality requires novelty. Indeed.

So what has that to do with cleanliness you may ask, well did you marry her to be a maid or for sex???