Indefinate Leave To Remain

[retard]

When I came back to the UK a few weeks agoe I stayed with a friend whose wife is Thai. She has been in the UK for 2 years and has recently passed her life in the UK test. Apparently it was a nightmare! She spent 100's of hours learning the answers by heart. I saw some of the questions and I would have failed miserably. Is there a way around this? I was told the applicant could apply for an extention of visa, what does that entail? In our case we are only planning to stay in the UK for about 5 years and then return to Thailand

[7by7]

Anyone who is applying for ILR needs to demonstrate their knowledge of life and language in the UK (KOL) unless they fall under one of the exceptions. See Knowledge of language and life in the UK.

The LitUK test is actually very easy, if one's English is good enough to understand the study materials and the test itself.

Learning all possible questions and their answers by rote is not the way to do it; would you do the same for a GCSE or other exam?

If one's English is not good enough to understand the study materials and the test then there is an alternative; an ESOL with citizenship course.

For more details, see Demonstrating your knowledge of language and life in the UK.

Instead of applying for ILR, one could apply for Further Leave to Remain every two years, at a current cost of £561 by post or £867 in person, always going up each year by more than inflation. Furthermore, this and the last government have both talked about limiting the number of times someone can apply for FLR in order to stop people avoiding KOL by doing this.

Even if, like yourself, someone does not intend to remain in the UK indefinitely, remember that to apply for British citizenship and thus be able to travel to and from the UK at will one needs to have ILR and have satisfied KOL.

[retard]

Anyone who is applying for ILR needs to demonstrate their knowledge of life and language in the UK (KOL) unless they fall under one of the exceptions. See Knowledge of language and life in the UK.

The LitUK test is actually very easy, if one's English is good enough to understand the study materials and the test itself.

Learning all possible questions and their answers by rote is not the way to do it; would you do the same for a GCSE or other exam?

If one's English is not good enough to understand the study materials and the test then there is an alternative; an ESOL with citizenship course.

For more details, see Demonstrating your knowledge of language and life in the UK.

Instead of applying for ILR, one could apply for Further Leave to Remain every two years, at a current cost of £561 by post or £867 in person, always going up each year by more than inflation. Furthermore, this and the last government have both talked about limiting the number of times someone can apply for FLR in order to stop people avoiding KOL by doing this.

Even if, like yourself, someone does not intend to remain in the UK indefinitely, remember that to apply for British citizenship and thus be able to travel to and from the UK at will one needs to have ILR and have satisfied KOL.

Well I was born and raised in the UK, consider myself reasonably educated, and just done an on-line test. Scored 50%!

[jasonr3255]

Been there mate along with hundreds of others who have read your post. Best advice I can give is get the book, sit with your wife and write the translation above each word your wife does not understand in Thai, It took me about 1 week with my wife going through each word translating. In most cases it takes around twelve weeks of 1-2 hours a day to learn the facts set out in the book. Do not buy the question book and learn the questions only, many girls thinking the short cut actually ended up taking the tests dozens of times till they got lucky !!This was purposely designed this way to also improve the English of the person taking the test. In my honest opinion this way is just as good as an Esol course in improving English speaking. Make it fun together, besides you will learn a few things you never knew yourself. Good luck !!

[RAZZELL]

Thai version:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Life-UK-Test-Handbook/dp/0956573800

RAZZ

[thaigirllondon]

Anyone who is applying for ILR needs to demonstrate their knowledge of life and language in the UK (KOL) unless they fall under one of the exceptions. See Knowledge of language and life in the UK.

The LitUK test is actually very easy, if one's English is good enough to understand the study materials and the test itself.

Learning all possible questions and their answers by rote is not the way to do it; would you do the same for a GCSE or other exam?

If one's English is not good enough to understand the study materials and the test then there is an alternative; an ESOL with citizenship course.

For more details, see Demonstrating your knowledge of language and life in the UK.

.

My English was bagofshite when I took the test, I was B1 level and of course passed but my English was not good. Yes, I could understand and keep up with conversations on some subjects but not very well and certainly not good enough to have a proper commicative life and marriage in the UK. I was ashamed in front of the Europeans. Thing is, when a Thai speak English at B1, everyone thinks they are great because of the poor standard of English in my country. In reality, B1 is very poor.

Also, I learnt all the materials by rote. Why? Because that's how Thais tend to learn at school even nowadays and also, its a good way to learn the materials. I approached it just as I did my maths exam, best to learn all by heart and tick the boxes than produce language. Afterall, most questions in the life in uk test are of no use for normal life in the UK. OK, many not most but certainly alot.

The Life in UK test doesn't help improve the language, its just to lern content (and not much use) so best to just pass and then learn English. As soon as I had passed, I applied for ILE and then when I arrived nearly two years ago, I started learning English and now I'd say its perhaps B2/C1. I don't know how anyone can live in a country which is not their native land and not learn the language. And the language of some Thais I meet is terrible, not even A2. How can they live with an English speaker only?

[RAZZELL]

My English was bagofshite when I took the test

My wife has mastered the "f-word" but not that...I'll have to teach her

RAZZ

Edited May 13, 2012 by RAZZELL

[7by7]

Well I was born and raised in the UK, consider myself reasonably educated, and just done an on-line test. Scored 50%!

And how much studying for it did you do beforehand?

I've said it before, and will say it again; in my opinion what is scandalous isn't that immigrants have to learn this stuff, but that British schoolchildren don't!

[Thongkorn]

I think but this is my personal opinion, the ESOL courses are a better thing, at least they will guide them/you through ,And they will teach only whats relevant.

[bobrussell]

Totally agree that ESOL is the better way forward. It takes longer, may cost more but it improves all sorts of other skills. My wife did a course and some very basic aspects of UK life (doctors visits, getting library books etc) were covered.

Simple skills and activities can become very daunting in a foreign country. ESOL teaches much more (who the heck cares who Guy Fawkes was other than being linked to bonfire night!) and improves confidence.

My wife was pretty competent at English but struggled with accents but the ESOL course was worth its weight in gold! It was quite hard work but it meant she gained a lot more from it!

The Life in the UK test is a bit of a waste of time and I doubt many people have gained better English skills from it. I learnt a lot of facts about the UK that I did not know before, a few of them moderately interesting! It is not there to improve your English but test the level of your language skills.

Edited May 14, 2012 by bobrussell

[madmin]

Your best option for your wife is to do an ESOL course she will be assessed by the college,E xample assessed at level 1 progress to level 2 thats all you need if she gets on level 3 though she will have to do the "life in the uk test", my wife was assessed at below level 1 so will do level 1 only, the course must be with citizenship materials included, for ILR she can carry on learning part time after,

Our plan is to apply for citizenship after 3 years so she has dual nationallity and can the come and go without visa's

[thaigirllondon]

Well I was born and raised in the UK, consider myself reasonably educated, and just done an on-line test. Scored 50%!

And how much studying for it did you do beforehand?

I've said it before, and will say it again; in my opinion what is scandalous isn't that immigrants have to learn this stuff, but that British schoolchildren don't!

Yes they do. In state schools children study citizenship classes.

[thaigirllondon]

I think but this is my personal opinion, the ESOL courses are a better thing, at least they will guide them/you through ,And they will teach only whats relevant.

But very boring in an ESOL class (if you are only there for citizenship content) if you are B1 and above level. It would be like you in your BA class studying with the a level kids. of gcse kids.

[thaigirllondon]

Totally agree that ESOL is the better way forward. It takes longer, may cost more but it improves all sorts of other skills. My wife did a course and some very basic aspects of UK life (doctors visits, getting library books etc) were covered.

But if you wife had B1 English then it would be boring as watching the pain drying. Imagine if you spoke Thai but had to go to the class about ordering in a restaurant, going to the doctor.....so boring. But yes, I agree, for a Thai with a low level of English ESOL classes are better option and they will learn alot and improve confidence of speaking etc.

The Life in the UK test is a bit of a waste of time and I doubt many people have gained better English skills from it. I learnt a lot of facts about the UK that I did not know before, a few of them moderately interesting! It is not there to improve your English but test the level of your language skills.

Very true but life in UK study is not meant to help raise the English level, its not that kind of exam. And it is cetainly not to test Engloish level, not at all. My husband failed also but he's a Jordy so that has somethng to say about it :-)

[thaigirllondon]

Your best option for your wife is to do an ESOL course she will be assessed by the college,E xample assessed at level 1 progress to level 2 thats all you need if she gets on level 3 though she will have to do the "life in the uk test", my wife was assessed at below level 1 so will do level 1 only, the course must be with citizenship materials included, for ILR she can carry on learning part time after,

Our plan is to apply for citizenship after 3 years so she has dual nationallity and can the come and go without visa's

With the greatest of great respect but how do you communicate with your wife if she was below level 1? This is very basic level. Are you a Thai speaker?

[Bangkokhatter]

Totally agree that ESOL is the better way forward. It takes longer, may cost more but it improves all sorts of other skills. My wife did a course and some very basic aspects of UK life (doctors visits, getting library books etc) were covered.

But if you wife had B1 English then it would be boring as watching the pain drying. Imagine if you spoke Thai but had to go to the class about ordering in a restaurant, going to the doctor.....so boring. But yes, I agree, for a Thai with a low level of English ESOL classes are better option and they will learn alot and improve confidence of speaking etc.

The Life in the UK test is a bit of a waste of time and I doubt many people have gained better English skills from it. I learnt a lot of facts about the UK that I did not know before, a few of them moderately interesting! It is not there to improve your English but test the level of your language skills.

Very true but life in UK study is not meant to help raise the English level, its not that kind of exam. And it is cetainly not to test Engloish level, not at all. My husband failed also but he's a Jordy so that has somethng to say about it :-)

now i know where you learnt bag of <deleted> from

[dracos]

Does anyone know if the ESOL qualification has an expiry date and has to be completed close to the time of applying for ILR?

We are currently waiting on the results of our settlement visa application and if possible I want to enrol the wife in ESOL course as soon as she gets to the UK so she can start learning and meeting new friends in a similar situation to herself as quickly as possible, plus if we can tick this box it takes some of the pressure off in 2 years time again.

She will then have satisfied the KOL requirements say 18 months before applying for ILR - would this still be acceptable (like for example when applying for settlement visa the English test has to be within 6 months of application). I can find no information in relation to this on the UKBA website so can only presume it doesn't matter when the qualification is obtained.

[bobrussell]

ESOL qualifications do not have an expiry date. There is always the possibility that the rules may change though. Some colleges seem to be reluctant to write the required letter until the ILR application is due.

The skills for life courses can be a great benefit although there were a few students on the course that did not seem to take it very seriously.

[thaigirllondon]

probably one of my friends.

[bobrussell]

Totally agree that ESOL is the better way forward. It takes longer, may cost more but it improves all sorts of other skills. My wife did a course and some very basic aspects of UK life (doctors visits, getting library books etc) were covered.

But if you wife had B1 English then it would be boring as watching the pain drying. Imagine if you spoke Thai but had to go to the class about ordering in a restaurant, going to the doctor.....so boring. But yes, I agree, for a Thai with a low level of English ESOL classes are better option and they will learn alot and improve confidence of speaking etc.

The Life in the UK test is a bit of a waste of time and I doubt many people have gained better English skills from it. I learnt a lot of facts about the UK that I did not know before, a few of them moderately interesting! It is not there to improve your English but test the level of your language skills.

Very true but life in UK study is not meant to help raise the English level, its not that kind of exam. And it is cetainly not to test Engloish level, not at all. My husband failed also but he's a Jordy so that has somethng to say about it :-)

Don't agree that an ESOL course would be like watching paint dry. My wife had pretty good spoken and written English when she settled here yet still found the course useful. She did help some of those in the group with poorer English skills but learned even more as a result of this!

The idea behind the LitUK test is that to understand the syllabus you need a certain standard of English. It therefore is an indirect test of English skills.

The Skills for Life part of the ESOL course is not just a lesson in going to the Doctor but teaches you to use the English language correctly! Correct use of language and grammar are part of the course as is improving spelling. Not boring at all. My wife improved her written and spoken English.

It would appear that you either did not do an ESOL course or did not gain much from it which may be because it was not taught well but there are plenty out there that have benefited greatly from these courses.

[Thongkorn]

Each to there own,

I think ESOL is a better idea, I have pointed many Thai people in that area, all of them have said that its very good. Not only do they learn the correct way to do things but also about the life in the UK test, It also makes them more confidant, My wife could not speak any English when i met her, I speak Thai, It seems that the Thai custom is not to speak to much and keep everything inside, the ESOL course brought her out and now she voices her opinions, which i like.

[7by7]

A post has been deleted.

Any more of this petty, childish name calling will result in the offenders being given long posting holidays. You know who you are.

BTW, PMs are also subject to the forum rules; if anyone is receiving PMs which break these, use the report button.

[7by7]

I've said it before, and will say it again; in my opinion what is scandalous isn't that immigrants have to learn this stuff, but that British schoolchildren don't!

Yes they do. In state schools children study citizenship classes.

Then this must be something new; my daughter didn't (she's now 21).

......... life in UK study is not meant to help raise the English level, its not that kind of exam. And it is cetainly not to test Engloish level, not at all. My husband failed also but he's a Jordy so that has somethng to say about it :-)

The Lituk is certainly not meant to raise someone's English ability, but it most certainly is meant to test that ability. If someone's English level is below ESOL entry level 3 then they will not be able to understand the study materials nor the test itself. Passing the test shows that their English is at, or better than, ESOL entry level 3. That your husband couldn't pass merely shows that he had not studied.

[thaigirllondon]

Each to there own,

I think ESOL is a better idea, I have pointed many Thai people in that area, all of them have said that its very good. Not only do they learn the correct way to do things but also about the life in the UK test, It also makes them more confidant, My wife could not speak any English when i met her, I speak Thai, It seems that the Thai custom is not to speak to much and keep everything inside, the ESOL course brought her out and now she voices her opinions, which i like.

You mean (ESOL) course in English with citizenship.

ESOL is just English for Speakers of Other Languages.

Two very different courses

[thaigirllondon]

That your husband couldn't pass merely shows that he had not studied

And logically that he is a little bit dumb. Becaus how can a professional English man, with good social standing fail an exam about life in UK BUT a poor Asian villager who may or may not have lived very long in the UK be expcted to pass.

Yes, yes I know its the law....but I think its a little bit silly.

[7by7]

Anyone who takes any exam without studying for it will almost certainly fail; not because they are "little bit dumb" but simply because they didn't study.

That is true whether they are a "professional English man, with good social standing" or a "poor Asian villager who may or may not have lived very long in the UK."

Though how someone's "social standing" is relevant to their intelligence or ability to study and understand what they are studying only you know.

Remember that this requirement applies to anyone who is applying for ILR, regardless of their nationality or their "social standing," unless they are exempt (see here). If your poor Asian villager, or anyone else, does not have the English ability to study for and pass the test then they can take the ESOL with citizenship course route, as already explained to you.

Whichever route they take, it is not something which has to be rushed. They do have at between 24 and 27 months before they can apply for ILR and so in which to satisfy the requirement.

You seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill (ask your husband to explain if you don't understand).

[thaigirllondon]

Anyone who takes any exam without studying for it will almost certainly fail; not because they are "little bit dumb" but simply because they didn't study

That depends what the exam is about. I would pass a BA exam in my degree subject tomorrow without studying. I would pass an exam in thai literature or history at anything below degree level also.

That is true whether they are a "professional English man, with good social standing" or a "poor Asian villager who may or may not have lived very long in the UK."

You quote out of context which reduced your arguement. IF you contextualise it, I said that a Brit national IE an educated professional (my husband is a PhD) should have more change of passing a life in uk exam than a poor asian villager in the same subject. Surely that is logical. If we contextualise it here, many of the people maybe lived in the UK there whole life and have the professional backgrounds and many perhaps marry relatively uneducated Thais so of course the Brit should be able to pass better than the Thai.

IF you turn that around, how many Brits could pass a P6 exam compared to Thais. Of courser the Thais will do better as they speak better Thai and have abetter understanding of life in Thailand .

Though how someone's "social standing" is relevant to their intelligence or ability to study and understand what they are studying only you know.

Sorry, it is tough for me to express my thoughts in English that well. What I meant is that social standing IE a good background IE they went to school and are not the uneducated people. It is my belief that people from good backgrounds do better in formal education worldwide. I am trying to show that the life in uk test is unfair as even Brits cant answer so what hope does a thi villager have...why should I have to study when a Brit doesnt. Imagine if Farang had to study a life in thai course that even I couldn't answer (I am educated to Master degree level).....there would be an million threads complaining. You would all be making mountains out of mountains (not mole hills because the problem would be a big one).

Remember that this requirement applies to anyone who is applying for ILR, regardless of their nationality or their "social standing," unless they are exempt (see here). If your poor Asian villager, or anyone else, does not have the English ability to study for and pass the test then they can take the ESOL with citizenship course route, as already explained to you.

That os true, there is an alternative for people with the poor English. However, that does not draction from the issue. The issue here is life in uk is not fit for purpose if majority of nationals cannot pass it. Life in UK could be written so it is more practical and reflection of the actual life in UK.

Whichever route they take, it is not something which has to be rushed. They do have at between 24 and 27 months before they can apply for ILR and so in which to satisfy the requirement.

That depends on individal situations. Some people want a ILE visa so they must rush to take it, like me, on a visit to the UK. Also, not all visa appplicants have the poor such standard of English of A1, A2 like many Thais. So, an Indian guy for example must take life in uk but his English friends tend to fail even though they come fro educated bacngrounds.

You seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill (ask your husband to explain if you don't understand).

In your opinion, but that is not the opinion of a foreigner residence in UK, of which I know many many. And my opinion is a shared opinion by many of them (as I am sure yours is by many Brits), so is my opinion a mountain? to you, yes. But you, I consider, are making a mole hill out of a montain. We are all different.

[Guest jonzboy]

i'm British and two years ago decided to coach my wife through the LITUK test instead of her taking the ESOL "with citizenship" course. My wife left school at the age of 16, no degree or PhD.

I tried the sample tests in the official book without reading the study text and I failed every time. I was not a miserable failure, because for me lots of questions were easy, based on commonly known facts. However, in order to pass you must get 18 out of 24 questions correct. In order to do that you have to remember a great number of facts and statistics. I am not condoning this approach, but that is the system. For the vast majority, studying the text is essential, even for people who have lived all their lives in UK. This type of material has been taught in schools here in the past, but as far as I know it was never "tested" in the way new immigrants are required to do. And I hear it os now no longer a compulsory element of the school curriculum.

Having read the text book I was able to score 22, 23 or 24 every time. My wife was the same (she tried really hard to master the rote learning involved) and passed the official test first time!!

[bobrussell]

Each to there own,

I think ESOL is a better idea, I have pointed many Thai people in that area, all of them have said that its very good. Not only do they learn the correct way to do things but also about the life in the UK test, It also makes them more confidant, My wife could not speak any English when i met her, I speak Thai, It seems that the Thai custom is not to speak to much and keep everything inside, the ESOL course brought her out and now she voices her opinions, which i like.

You mean (ESOL) course in English with citizenship.

ESOL is just English for Speakers of Other Languages.

Two very different courses

Not so!

The course my wife did was 'Skills for Life' and not a citizenship one. There is no requirement to do a specific citizenship course (although some colleges offer them). The requirement is that the course should include citizenship materials from the curriculum, not the entire citizenship syllabus.

The college must be willing to complete the required letter confirming that this is the case.

[Thongkorn]

Thanks bobrussell.

I/We know what we are talking about, it does not matter a jot about what people think or do < the Boarder Agency say that's the criteria, then you have to abide by it,