webfact Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Govt was warned: dam plan violates the law Pongphon Sarnsamak The Nation Environment Minister Preecha wrote to Cabinet that Mae Wong project would destroy over 13,000 rai of forest BANGKOK: -- Before Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra's government gave the goahead to the Mae Wong Dam project on April 10, Natural Resources and Environment Minister Preecha Rengsomboonsuk warned the Cabinet in a ministerial letter the project would violate national park law and destroy over 13,000 rai of forest. The ministerial letter, issued on March 23 and signed by Preecha, was sent to the Cabinet secretary and told of the ministry's concerns over the Mae Wong Dam. It said the Natural Resources and Environment Ministry was worried dam construction inside Nakhon Sawan province's Mae Wong National Park would damage 13,000 rai of forest. Moreover, the project would violate the 1961 National Park Act, which does not allow any individual to carry out activities affecting natural resources inside a national park. The Mae Wong Dam project will be located at Sob Kok Mountain in Mae Wong district's Tambon Mae Lay, and Khanu Woralaksaburi district's Tambon Pang Ma Kha in Khampaeng Phet province. The project is about 300 metres above sea level and will be set in a lowland forest with high biodiversity. This forest - connected with the western forest complex - protects water resources and habitats for wildlife. In the letter, the ministry also noted the Mae Wong Dam project is classified as a construction likely to be harmful to the environment requiring an environmental health impact assessment (EIA) following the ministerial announcement. The National Environmental Board (NEB)'s water expert panel on March 24, 2011, asked the Royal Irrigation Department (RID), which runs the dam project, to conduct the new EIA and submit it to the panel before sending it to the NEB and Cabinet for approval. The Natural Resources and Environment Ministry also demanded the RID study the geological condition of the area and the sediment supply, as the construction site will be near watershed areas underlined by granite bedrock, which produces much sediment in the rainy season. The ministerial letter revealed the Agriculture and Cooperatives Ministry had not sent any official letter asking permission to use 885 rai of forest reserve areas to build the Mae Wong Dam. If the Agriculture and Cooperatives Ministry wanted to step forward with a plan to build the dam, the ministry should study carefully the information, facts, regulations, cabinet resolutions and related policy, according to the Natural Resources and Environment Ministry's letter. The RID has hired a consultant company to conduct an environmental and health impact assessment. The report is expected to be complete in the next three months. The RID will on May 21 hold a public hearing to seek local public opinion on the dam project. -- The Nation 2012-05-14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcatcher Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Dam bad idea. Let's hope it gets canned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Reasonableman Posted May 14, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted May 14, 2012 National parks should always remain inviolate and be rigorously defended and preserved for current and future generations. Encroachment is encroachment, be it a dam or a "resort". If this goes ahead, it will create a precedent making national parks in Thailand even less secure than they currently are. A potential tragedy for Thailand that can never be undone. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gand Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Dam the Environment, Full Speed Ahead?! Rethinking Water Management Through Citizen Participation http://www.taiwan-panorama.com/en/show_issue.php?id=2008119711036e.txt&table1=2&h1=Finance%20and%20Economy&h2=Public%20Infrastructure China's Three Gorges Dam: An Environmental Catastrophe? Even the Chinese government suspects the massive dam may cause significant environmental damage http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=chinas-three-gorges-dam-disaster http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~lpohara/Pol%20116/enviro.html http://members.optusnet.com.au/~engineeringgeologist/page17.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_reservoirs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerryd Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 No problem. Pesky law preventing you from doing something ? Just change the law ! After all, it worked for the PM's brother when he was PM. I'm sure the dam project will provide enough "incentives" to ensure the right people suddenly see how the benefits outweigh the damage and agree to "amend" a regulation here, a law there, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 "........ underlined by granite bedrock, which produces much sediment in the rainy season." Most geologists would suggest that granite erodes quite slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Dam the Environment, Full Speed Ahead?! Rethinking Water Management Through Citizen Participation http://www.taiwan-pa... Infrastructure China's Three Gorges Dam: An Environmental Catastrophe? Even the Chinese government suspects the massive dam may cause significant environmental damage http://www.scientifi...es-dam-disaster http://www.mtholyoke...116/enviro.html http://members.optus...ist/page17.html http://en.wikipedia....t_of_reservoirs While you were at it, you could have mentioned that it will produce 100TWhr of electricity annually WITHOUT the burning of 40 MILLION tonnes of coal, the mining transporting and burning of which might also cause a little environmental damage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparebox2 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 If you stop using electricity, Thai govt won't need to build dam. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MengWan Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Since when elected people have to obey the law in Thailand ? This is "Democracy" ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLee Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 No problem. Pesky law preventing you from doing something ? Just change the law ! After all, it worked for the PM's brother when he was PM. I'm sure the dam project will provide enough "incentives" to ensure the right people suddenly see how the benefits outweigh the damage and agree to "amend" a regulation here, a law there, etc. This is Thailand, where amazing wonders happen. It's the Same old story, the government thinks by "blocking and preventing water" there everything will be better, They want to "block the water at all cost", even if it means destroying the lives of innocent people, They just want to make money out of those projects, from the tax money that the average Thai citizens work so hard for, day by day, just to enrich themselves, so that they can start those money-ripping projects in the first place... You cannot just simply block the water..... Yingluck and Co have a block in their head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moe666 Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 "........ underlined by granite bedrock, which produces much sediment in the rainy season." Most geologists would suggest that granite erodes quite slowly. Actually granite erodes easily in its natural state. I am from a city that sets at the foot of a 10,000foot mountain of granite. The natural drainage ways of the mountain are filled with very fine granite particles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 If you stop using electricity, Thai govt won't need to build dam. If there were some incentive to use solar power for domestic purposes, maybe we could generate much of our own power locally. Then we would not "need" to rely forever on fossil fuels or destroy yet more of the countryside with dams, in our own and/or in neighboring countries. We need to find a variety of alternative power sources, not just the blinkered "more electricity = more dams". Solar (also wind, wave action, tidal) is one of those alternatives, and real incentives are being offered by other countries. In Australia, domestic solar-generated electricity is fed into the national grid, and the generators are paid for it. And here... is increasing the number of dams really a solution? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbler Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Only one major watershed in Thailand, the Mae Yom in Phrae Province, remains dam free. All others have had their rivers plundered, including many that lie inside parks and wildlife sanctuaries. This Mae Wong project, like most others of it's kind is being undertaken because a few people in govt stand to make a lot of money from the logging of the area planned for inundation, and the construction contract (the dam and associated infrastructure). Commercial logging in Thailand has been banned since 1989 so the hardwood timber will fetch a small fortune for the contractor who will pass on the profits to the benefactors. These deals have been repeated so often that a good many politicians and former politicians owe part or all of their personal fortunes to these dam projects. The perceived benefit to farmers downstream from stopping flooding and having year-round water supply for crops is a secondary interest, and due to standard water mismanagement by the Irrigation Department having this dam is likely to provide few of the benefits claimed by the govt. Good that the article points out that the project is also illegal, however, that is unlikely to stop this govt from going ahead with the project. In any case they are sending the Mae Wong National Park Chief to Kenya to learn how to manage wildlife so the task will be a lot simpler since there will be less forest habitat to have to worry about managing after the dam is in place. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 If you stop using electricity, Thai govt won't need to build dam. If there were some incentive to use solar power for domestic purposes, maybe we could generate much of our own power locally. Then we would not "need" to rely forever on fossil fuels or destroy yet more of the countryside with dams, in our own and/or in neighboring countries. We need to find a variety of alternative power sources, not just the blinkered "more electricity = more dams". Solar (also wind, wave action, tidal) is one of those alternatives, and real incentives are being offered by other countries. In Australia, domestic solar-generated electricity is fed into the national grid, and the generators are paid for it. And here... is increasing the number of dams really a solution? Actually, yes. And we might as well get used to it. Currently (pun intended), 87% of energy comes from fossil fuels, 6% each from HEP and nuclear, and 1% from all other sources. And HEP is many times more energy efficient than ANYTHING else. For links and quotes see my posts in Xayaburi thread. The biggest drawback with solar is that it only works around 8 hours/day and produces none/very little during the morning and evening peak load periods. The only available technology to store the energy is pumping water uphill from one dam to another. Wind power is fickle and one of the least energy efficient ways to generate. There are few tidal power stations, most are tiny, the largest is just over 1% of the 3 Gorges dam's capacity. Wave power needs a LOT of work to even be rationally considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnAllan Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 National parks should always remain inviolate and be rigorously defended and preserved for current and future generations. Encroachment is encroachment, be it a dam or a "resort". If this goes ahead, it will create a precedent making national parks in Thailand even less secure than they currently are. A potential tragedy for Thailand that can never be undone. If there is one thing Thai government ministers are very good at, it is creating - and recreating - precedents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 For anyone interested to know what Australia's approach to solar is, you might like to check out the following: http://www.energymatters.com.au/government-rebates/ Solar power systems - clean electricity from the sun Solar energy is the cleanest and greenest source of renewable energy generated electricity available to help power your home, business or community building - and it's cost effective too - check out our solar power system specials! The availability and increasing uptake of residential rooftop systems shows exactly how versatile and viable solar is as a source of energy for our electricity needs; particularly in a sun-drenched country such as Australia. Solar energy will form the centrepiece of Australia's clean, renewable and distributed electricity generation future. When you install solar panels, you'll not only slash your greenhouse gas emissions and your electricity bill, you'll be joining Australia's energy security revolution. The technology and the panels are becoming smaller, more economical, efficient and better looking than ever. We also have various renewable energy rebatesand incentives available in Australia, reducing the initial investment outlay for generating electricity from your home or business rooftop substantially. In a rush? Download our free guide (PDF 1.2 mb) to solar power systems, solar hot water and wind energy! Grid connect solar power systems Grid connect systems tie in with your existing home electricity supply, ensuring you have all the electricity you need 24/7, regardless of weather conditions and the time of day or night. Check out our solar power system specials Get free INSTANT solar quotes online! Learn about grid connect solar power and rebates Off grid solar -remote power systems Too expensive or too remote to get mains power? An off grid system can be a much more economical solution, even over the short term. We offer a full range of remote equipment at the very best prices! Off grid/stand alone power systems and applicable rebates Design a remote renewable energy system Commercial and Medium scale solar Our medium scale projects focuses on delivering the best mid-scale solar system products for our customers across Australia. Whether you're a commercial enterprise or a community group, we can help make your rooftop pay! More info about commercial solar power solutions Solar hot water By installing a flat plate or evacuated tube hot water system you can reduce greenhouse gas emissions and save up to 75% of your water heating costs, a major contributor to household emissions - courtesy of the sun! More info about solar hot water and applicable rebates Get a free solar hot water quote Solar hot water products Solar hydronics/thermal Hydronics refers to the use of water as a heat transfer medium in heating and cooling systems - a hydronics system gets its energy provided free by the sun and is particularly well suited to commercial applications. More information about solar thermal technology Solar thermal home heating Commercial hydronics Industrial hydronics Solar water pumping Solar pumping systems are widely used on farms and outback stations in Australia to supply bore and surface sourced water to livestock in place of high maintenance fossil fuel electricity generation based pumping. Using solar power to pump water and applicable rebates Pumping products Design a water pumping system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 "........ underlined by granite bedrock, which produces much sediment in the rainy season." Most geologists would suggest that granite erodes quite slowly. Actually granite erodes easily in its natural state. I am from a city that sets at the foot of a 10,000foot mountain of granite. The natural drainage ways of the mountain are filled with very fine granite particles. But how long did it take for them to accumulate? A hint - granite is formed deep beneath the surface. Now it has become a 10000' mountain because more than 10000' of surrounding material has been eroded while the granite did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reasonableman Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 "........ underlined by granite bedrock, which produces much sediment in the rainy season." Most geologists would suggest that granite erodes quite slowly. Actually granite erodes easily in its natural state. I am from a city that sets at the foot of a 10,000foot mountain of granite. The natural drainage ways of the mountain are filled with very fine granite particles. But how long did it take for them to accumulate? A hint - granite is formed deep beneath the surface. Now it has become a 10000' mountain because more than 10000' of surrounding material has been eroded while the granite did not. Actually, no. Granite is formed from the slow cooling of high silicate magma intrusions that have risen through the crust and formed large bulbous chambers of molten material called plutons. Plutons can take millions of years to cool and crystallize into granitic rock. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonclark Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) Instead of building a dam, how about investing in making buildings more energy efficient. The level of insulation on buildings in Thailand is zero, just as you can insulate to keep out the cold, so you can insulate to keep out the heat. Glass is a shockingly poor insulator, yet most of the modern condo being built in Bangkok have huge single pane glass windows. an astonishing waste of energy. It's not that we need more energy to sustain our lifestyles, it just our lifestyle and sense of fashion result in an increase in the % of energy wasted through inefficient design, and use of materials. I personally think the value of energy is too cheap and as a result we have become complacent about its use. If the price of energy were to be put up by 20 times, people would use a lot less of it and use it more effectively and efficiently. Edited May 14, 2012 by jonclark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) For anyone interested to know what Australia's approach to solar is, you might like to check out the following: http://www.energymat...rnment-rebates/ Solar power systems - clean electricity from the sun Solar energy is the cleanest and greenest source of renewable energy generated electricity available to help power your home, business or community building - and it's cost effective too - check out our solar power system specials! The availability and increasing uptake of residential rooftop systems shows exactly how versatile and viable solar is as a source of energy for our electricity needs; particularly in a sun-drenched country such as Australia. Solar energy will form the centrepiece of Australia's clean, renewable and distributed electricity generation future. When you install solar panels, you'll not only slash your greenhouse gas emissions and your electricity bill, you'll be joining Australia's energy security revolution. The technology and the panels are becoming smaller, more economical, efficient and better looking than ever. We also have various renewable energy rebatesand incentives available in Australia, reducing the initial investment outlay for generating electricity from your home or business rooftop substantially. In a rush? Download our free guide (PDF 1.2 mb) to solar power systems, solar hot water and wind energy! Grid connect solar power systems Grid connect systems tie in with your existing home electricity supply, ensuring you have all the electricity you need 24/7, regardless of weather conditions and the time of day or night. Check out our solar power system specials Get free INSTANT solar quotes online! Learn about grid connect solar power and rebates Off grid solar -remote power systems Too expensive or too remote to get mains power? An off grid system can be a much more economical solution, even over the short term. We offer a full range of remote equipment at the very best prices! Off grid/stand alone power systems and applicable rebates Design a remote renewable energy system Commercial and Medium scale solar Our medium scale projects focuses on delivering the best mid-scale solar system products for our customers across Australia. Whether you're a commercial enterprise or a community group, we can help make your rooftop pay! More info about commercial solar power solutions Solar hot water By installing a flat plate or evacuated tube hot water system you can reduce greenhouse gas emissions and save up to 75% of your water heating costs, a major contributor to household emissions - courtesy of the sun! More info about solar hot water and applicable rebates Get a free solar hot water quote Solar hot water products Solar hydronics/thermal Hydronics refers to the use of water as a heat transfer medium in heating and cooling systems - a hydronics system gets its energy provided free by the sun and is particularly well suited to commercial applications. More information about solar thermal technology Solar thermal home heating Commercial hydronics Industrial hydronics Solar water pumping Solar pumping systems are widely used on farms and outback stations in Australia to supply bore and surface sourced water to livestock in place of high maintenance fossil fuel electricity generation based pumping. Using solar power to pump water and applicable rebates Pumping products Design a water pumping system Yes, well while all the greenies are feeling warm and fuzzy, can we talk about the realities of electricity demand. My experience is in NSW so allow for that - it may vary from area to area and country. Demand is very inconsistent with 2 load peaks. The top 30% of demand is supplied for less than 10% of the day. The peaks occur at early breakfast through to about 0900, the evening peak occurs between 1700 - 2000 (varies a little with season.) At neither peak is solar making any contribution. One of the biggest problems/expenses is having "spinning reserve" available for the peaks, and what to do with it during the midnight to 0400 minimum demand periods. For efficiency, NSW uses large 660MW coal-fired generator sets which get unstable at low load, and it expensive and damaging to shut them down. That is why off-peak hot water is so cheap. Power is also sent to the Snowy Scheme where it is used to pump water back uphill, to be used during the next days peak. The highest NSW peak I can recall was just under 15,000MW and demand continually increases. The planned solar plant at Moree will be the LARGEST IN THE WORLD (cost $1.2 billion) AND will generate 150MW, and none of it will help meet that peak. Electricity prices are increasing and expected to continue increasing, at 10% annually - that's 7 years to double. A world-wide energy crisis slowly approaches - how to replace 87% of the energy from fossil fuels - and so many want to rule out the most energy efficient method of generation yet devised. BTW Oz is in an unenviable situation, with low rainfall and few mountains, Tassie being the exception. "High per-capita energy use has been considered desirable as it is associated with a high standard of living based on energy-intensive machines. A society will generally exploit the highest available EROEI energy sources first, as these provide the most energy for the least effort. With non-renewable sources, progressively lower EROEI sources are then used as the higher-quality ones are exhausted. For example, when oil was originally discovered, it took on average one barrel of oil to find, extract, and process about 100 barrels of oil. That ratio has declined steadily over the last century to about three barrels gained for one barrel used up in the U.S." Edited May 14, 2012 by OzMick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerrysteve Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Who gives a dam about the Dam laws damit. Breaking the law is the Rule of Law in Thailand damit. We passem then we trashem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMick Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 "........ underlined by granite bedrock, which produces much sediment in the rainy season." Most geologists would suggest that granite erodes quite slowly. Actually granite erodes easily in its natural state. I am from a city that sets at the foot of a 10,000foot mountain of granite. The natural drainage ways of the mountain are filled with very fine granite particles. But how long did it take for them to accumulate? A hint - granite is formed deep beneath the surface. Now it has become a 10000' mountain because more than 10000' of surrounding material has been eroded while the granite did not. Actually, no. Granite is formed from the slow cooling of high silicate magma intrusions that have risen through the crust and formed large bulbous chambers of molten material called plutons. Plutons can take millions of years to cool and crystallize into granitic rock. Except for the depth (I consider a km to be quite deep), are we in disagreement? How did the granite become a mountain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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