Farm Labour Crisis

[IsaanAussie]

I can remember my first trip to our village. We were greeted warmly by the village who were communially planting their rice crops, everyone working together, no money changing hands, just getting it done. Rows of people transplanting rice seedlings. Meals and booze supplied on the day by whoevers rice was being planted.

Havent seen it happen in the last two of four years since we moved here. Not once.

This years chilli crop was bigger than last years but less was harvested because the per kg cost was too high.

The community spirit is gone. Everyone has a mobile, fridge and TV, many with new houses. Adult children sending funds and even more offspring, but loathe to return to the village to help plant the rice.

How can we get labour to run our farms? It is the same story with everyone I talk to.

[jamescollister]

AI don't know if this is a national thing or regional. Next village to me has taken up anything offered and last November sold 12 mil Baht of rubber for the month. Everyone seemed to get into it and helped each other, they do cassava, rice and fruit trees, there are 400 homes there, have a co op shop. My village. not 7 km away and few took up free rubber trees and free land at times. No one wants to work, just happy to eat sleep and do a bit of rice.

The crunch will come and they do not see it, 8 years ago I/ wife bough a house block on the river back of the family home 4000 Baht, ducks live there now. Aunt from BKK came home last year [ getting old no husband] bought a block not 300 meters from us. 90,000 Baht. When the local kids grow up and are looking for a place to build for their families, they will have to pay. We have roads and internet [no phone lines yet] but the world is coming and they can look forward to 50 working weeks and wide screen TVs. Jim

[IsaanAussie]

You are right Jim. It does vary from village to village, and there are pockets of people who still respect the traditional village culture. But life is to be enjoyed so if someone else fills your rice bowl, you're done for the day. That much will never change in the villages.

Today? Don't sweat about getting the phone lines, some thieving lay about will only steal it anyway. When the big screen fails, well it was old anyway!

The need to show and maintain face at all costs will confound me for ever. I watch people with money around here, manipulate those around them with a little sweet talk and a drink. I see the common folk spending everything just to claim a win again someone they had called friend the day before. It a bad case of "Getting ahead of the Jones."

There can be only one winner, Khun Kubota.

Edited May 25, 2012 by IsaanAussie

[customcurb]

I find the 'village socieo-dynamics' amusing in that it resembles the western world a bit, but they are so cut off from the 1st world. The keeping up with the Smiths is saving face here, and, shit rolls downhill here to.

Having come from the ussa, where the banks and gov together have run the grand financial ponzi scheme probably to its near end, and leading edge of the mess was the housing bubble collapse, I'd say it's 'game on' in Thailand.

It seem banks are pushing car/truck loans like crazy and real estate prices have gotten totally silly, allowed, fueled, and encourage by banks. In the little shit-hole town I'm in, some raw land is going for millions. There's a 6 rai lot in town next to a car repair shop, the lot is mostly just a pond from water drainage but it's on the main drag. Car shop guy says the owner has declined 45 mil and expects higher offers. Frik'n nuts is what I call it for an undeveloped plot in a 2nd world dirty dusty muddy town populated with bumpkins mostly but one generation from being 3rd world peasants. I am of the opinion that when the next 1st world financial mess hits it will mess up Thailand's export economy and then down goes real estate because it will stop rising. And for the bumpkins with baht signs in their eyes trying to sell farm land for orders of magnitude higher prices that but five years ago, greedy little suckers will get stuck when the tide turns.

There's going to be a very big sum-num-na one of these days.

[IsaanAussie]

I agree. I was here two years after the 1997 crisis and could not believe what was available for sale at bargain basement prices, the rush to get out of trouble, the level of nonperforming loans was staggering. With the cost of living rising so quickly and finance available in the inflationary rather than investment areas, the gun is being cocked again.

As far as farming is concerned the cost of such labour as remains is just crazy. They grow chili here off season. Too much but that is another issue. At its peak with the first green chili for sale the farmgate prices hit the mid thirties, within weeks red chili was getting not much more than half.

Pickers were hard to find and not many that would work for the few baht a kg that was standard last year. I heard one guy explain that since people in Bangkok now got 300 baht a day, he didnt figure he should take less. Since he thought he could pick (at a leisurely pace) about 10kg a day, he wanted 30 baht a kg to pick the crop. Say what? TIT

[CWMcMurray]

For farming, Thailand is ripe for consolidation and opening of large corporate farms using machines rather so much Manuel labor

Nothing strange going on here, changing from a rural agrarian society to an industrial society

This has happened in all developed countries and it is just a normal step in progression from a newly industrialized country to a developed country

[revar]

In our village it is still very much like' i help with your crop and yo with mine', without money changing hand. And many find it great fun with a farang planting rice or man.midday and after work a lot of 40 is drank.

For our 7rai of 'man' i had to hire extra hands for 200 bath a day. These are mostly old ladies and children. In the end the drink bill os often as large as the wages.

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[IsaanAussie]

For farming, Thailand is ripe for consolidation and opening of large corporate farms using machines rather so much Manuel labor

Nothing strange going on here, changing from a rural agrarian society to an industrial society

This has happened in all developed countries and it is just a normal step in progression from a newly industrialized country to a developed country

Perhaps, but his Majesty seems to have other "sufficiency" ideas. One thing is for sure, it is cheaper to employ machines than men here already.

[jamescollister]

Often hear that Thailand should go over to western style corparate farming. Big farms, big machines, big turn over and few jobs. Where do the millions of poor small farming families go, how will they earn a living. They maybe happy to sell off the small holdings at the start, but when the money is gone they will want their land back. Big farming only works where the displaced have other employment and there is a welfare system to stop civil uprisings.

Not sure of the percentage of people that live off the land here, but it will be high. A lot of people to find alternate work. Change maybe coming, but it will have to be managed or there will be trouble big time. Jim

[tingtong]

They grow chili here off season. Too much but that is another issue. At its peak with the first green chili for sale the farmgate prices hit the mid thirties, within weeks red chili was getting not much more than half.

Pickers were hard to find and not many that would work for the few baht a kg that was standard last year. I heard one guy explain that since people in Bangkok now got 300 baht a day, he didnt figure he should take less. Since he thought he could pick (at a leisurely pace) about 10kg a day, he wanted 30 baht a kg to pick the crop. Say what? TIT

hi

omitt the word, leasurely, and the guy might just have a point, wanting to make a living from his daywork.

i did pick a few times our few chilis here, we also grow a little for dry season, strictly for wife/family...and my conclusion that it is rather hard to pick large quantity per hour. also, i dont think yet there is a mashine to pick green from red, and do accurately and cheaply.

so, while with the current economic you think labour is impossible to pay, it only suggests for me that not the picker who wants too much money, but the farmgate/market price of the chili must be too low then.

little different than on the rubber thread Jim's example, since he offers way over minimum wage for some work to be done, and honestly, for i 1000 baht, i just hope he would be my neighbor, i have time on hand, and that would make a decent living, if permanent job.

and here is one question, how many of these offered jobs are one off, how many the permanent. of course, you wont find for the former ppl to do for the same salary, nothing to do with thailand.

i had to luck also for some "communal" work done here by mostly family, and as someone pointed out, the cost of food and booze + money combined well outstripped the simple flat price what a harvester would cost. not to mention speed.

in my opinion, it doesnt have to be all work together. remember, socialism didnt work that well on the west neigher, why would here?

it better to have someone do a proper job, and earn his proper wage for it, as per his productivity, than a bunch of freeloaders amongst few hard workers, that is not the team i would like to be in if i work hard, and earn the same as some lazy one.

no trouble i see if more thais think the same. maybe not the nostalgic feel how it was, and so on, but that is life.

[CWMcMurray]

If you look at previous posts this already starting... as other have mentioned labored consist main in of older generation and children

Those in an age group able work in other industries have moved to cities and industrial areas to work at factories

Fast forward a few more years and as the older folks get to an age where their kids are sending back money, they will likely not be going out working in farms anymore. If the older folks are not going out, they are not going to be bringing the little ones with them either

So I would guess as time goes on, more and more will be leaving the farms and it will be more and more difficult for small farmers to survive

Those that realize this sooner, will sell their land to corporate farms and probably turn a tidy profit, those that don't will likely run up huge debts trying to continue to farm even though they are loosing money and default on loans and the banks will then take over the lands and sell them off to developers and corporate farms

Is the above a good thing... Not sure, but is the likely future

[jamescollister]

If you look at previous posts this already starting... as other have mentioned labored consist main in of older generation and children

Those in an age group able work in other industries have moved to cities and industrial areas to work at factories

Fast forward a few more years and as the older folks get to an age where their kids are sending back money, they will likely not be going out working in farms anymore. If the older folks are not going out, they are not going to be bringing the little ones with them either

So I would guess as time goes on, more and more will be leaving the farms and it will be more and more difficult for small farmers to survive

Those that realize this sooner, will sell their land to corporate farms and probably turn a tidy profit, those that don't will likely run up huge debts trying to continue to farm even though they are loosing money and default on loans and the banks will then take over the lands and sell them off to developers and corporate farms

Is the above a good thing... Not sure, but is the likely future

True to say many younger people head to the cities for work, most are unskilled and in poorly paid jobs. Here most return to the village at planting and harvesting times. Last years floods saw a massive influx of locals returning as there was no work. Just like Europe in the industrial revolution it will take a long time to get the peasants off the land. Before they give up their rural side and become urban dwellers someone will need to provide a bit more security of life then it's wet go home. Jim

[jamescollister]

Here we go again, sometimes think I am in the outer limits. In the words of cool hand Luke , what we have is a failure to communicate.

Laying in bed with this bug that's going round, listening to the none stop whinge of the builders angle grinder and another sound attracts my attention. Go out to see about 600 kilos of cup rubber being weighed. Why are we selling cup to a drive by truck and for how much. Answer 47 Baht a kilo, again why are we selling to a drive by pick up for 47 Baht a kilo when we have a factory and buy cup rubber for that price dry it and sell at 60 plus Baht and make a profit. No it wet. NO we have been buying wet cup for 3 years and drying it and reselling at a profit of 5 Baht a kilo. This same thing happens every year, so I say I will buy my own rubber at the drive by rate give you your share, OK.

Now when we go sell next month and the plantation that has enough workers get their share of the RSS and I sell my now cup rubber the cup guys will be asking why they got so little compared to the others. Every year same same, have the calculator out, go through the numbers same blank looks. One guys share of his cup for 4 tapping days would have been 4000 Baht bigger if he had done sheet.

May take a new tack this year as I have had it trying to do the right thing by the workers. Hire the tappers at 40% hire collectors who take the latex to the factory and make sheet. Pay the tappers cup price and the collectors 500 Baht for 5 or 6 hours work {that is what I am told will get people to work] Much easier to get family groups doing the lot on a % but just can't get good people,

Time to go drink beer before I get another head ache. Jim

[Bluetongue]

When the family planted mahn or corn, we used to pay each other 200baht for work. Other family members from the village would come and help for that rate. Now you cant get them to do it very often but fortunately most of the family fruit trees are large enough not to worry about mahn and capot any more. Having said that the going rate for things this year is 40baht to pick sack of corn, 300 baht per day for spraying, anything over half a day, less than half a day 150. I have people coming to me asking for piece rates ie I agreed to pay a guy 5baht per bamboo pole cut and stripped in location. He cut 120 in about half a day and got 600, but as I watched him I realised that was pretty easy and have done it ourselves since. I had another guy spray weeds, because he had a petrol powered sprayer he wanted 150 per rai which I agreed to even though I paid for the chemical, he got 750 for a days work which I wasn't satisfied with so now I just paid a brother in law with his hand sprayer 300 per day, he does a good job and it ends up cheaper.

Anyway the big fruit companies here are using Cambodians to pick the fruit, they pay them 35 per 11 and a half kilo plastic box and they make themselves 400-500 per day each. Thais want 40 to do it.

But the problem with the family getting jobs in Bangkok, Pattaya etc isn't as bad here because they dont seem to last, they are always coming back. The casual sort of jobs they seem to like best all pay more than 200 more like 400. Overall I have to agree with the thrust of this thread then. I am prepared to pay more for labour but I need a sustainable price for fruit to do it. I await withg baited breath the arrival of the buyers.

[Smithson]

It will be interesting to see what happens next when the govt brings in B300 daily wage.I can't really see Thailand becoming an industrialized/developed country, the attitude and skill level doesn't really exist. Thai's really look down on manual labor, it's amazing how many hard working parents I see encouraging their kids to be lazy.

I was here pre 97 and the situation now reminds me of then, lots of buildings going up and money being thrown around.

[Bluetongue]

I remember something about the average age of an Australian farmer was 60 a couple of years back, and a plumber was over 50. My mates doing beef on a relatively small scale are all in their 50s and the local pool of labour there isn't too flash either. One guy has three sons all pretty handy, but two doing computer support jobs, but still in his area, and one teaching English in Japan. Last time I was there he had a Japanese exchange kid helping him, but not very much. As for the plumber they can charge what they like now I suppose, I asked a Thai guy the other day, what do you call a plumber and he said, my wife is a plumber, I am a plumber, everyone is a plumber.

the point is no-one wants to do occupations which are perceived as hard. Kids dont. Its the same here except there is still unskilled manual labour required from a diminishing pool that is why we might have to pay more for it. I tried to pay 300 for a while last year when the rate increase was announced, but I said I wanted 8 hours and only an hour for lunch, 20 minute smokos, and no disappearing for an hour to buy m lawy. I gave up after about two weeks. Now for larger tasks I just use a gang of Kamen, the only problem you know the Thai guy that drives them around and sleeps in a hammock all day is probably getting 1000 for his trouble. And it's not a golden bullet solution. Smaller jobs we just do whatever we can.

As someone said the number of red plated vehicles on the road this year is astounding, it seems to me to go up every year. And the used car lots are growing too. All in all somethings got to break.

[IsaanAussie]

Back to basics guys. Thais believe that life is to be enjoyed. Once the rice bowl is full, relax. The problem we have is that doesnt fit our progressive, continuous improvement lifestyle, the way we were raised with a nothing for nothing belief.

Watch a Thai that hires help. He will do little but provide the plus pluses to the workers, despite his own capabilities, this time he is the boss.

There is a western saying that applies to the Thai way. It goes "Why own a dog, and bark yourself?"

[somo]

Back home the boss mucking in/helping out gives him credibility with his emmployees.

Here he is considered stupid or even tight for not hiring one more worker.

Both views are a bit off the mark but it is this divergence of views that makes living

in different places so rewarding.

Many things in Thailand are the opposite of what I am used to. They build their houses from the top down and all the light switches are upside down but this is why I love the place. It is constantly challenging my preconceptions.

[plopmeister]

In the end the drink bill os often as large as the wages.

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Then you are not running a business.. I did the same as you with my first wife in Isaan for 8 years..It was never profitable..

I now live in Central Thailand and Mrs Ploppy has , under my instruction, become totally aware of the extra costs of feeding and supplying drinks to labourers every day...

We have some very good regular workers and we tend to pay them piece work which is better for all if you keep an eye on the quality..

Mrs Ploppy ( Of course) preffered to use her family but when they all turned up with kids expecting to be fed I made it clear that they would be first choice but on the same deal as anybody else..Turn up at 8am and go home at 5pm with an hour for lunch....They haven't been back since..

If you want to run a business then that is what it is...not a bloody charity!!

If there has been a very hard day with everybody doing extra hours then I totally agree with you that there is nothing on this earth better than sitting in a field totally knackered sharing a few bottles together....at your cost..

[somo]

Mr Ploppy

I take your point. I too have an occasional moan to my wife for being too generous but that is part of her nature.

I would say though that if the occasional meal and drinks for the workers is threatening the viability of your business then it can't be very profitable. I think these costs need to be built into any biz plan as they are more or less inevitable.

[plopmeister]

Mr Ploppy

I take your point. I too have an occasional moan to my wife for being too generous but that is part of her nature.

I would say though that if the occasional meal and drinks for the workers is threatening the viability of your business then it can't be very profitable. I think these costs need to be built into any biz plan as they are more or less inevitable.

Hi Mate..I have no problems with occasional meals and drinks as mentioned in my last paragraph on my previous post.but my biggest problem ( On most issues) is Yai. When we have piecework, for instance filling the soil into 3,000 growing bags, our regular workers turn up as individuals as is their wish but last time Yai turned up with 3 of my wife's sisters, 1 husband, and 5 kids with me and my family working too that is 13 meals....and also takes my wife and one daughter out of the working equation cos they are cooking and washing up..

..Twice my wife has employed her sister to do some labouring tasks that any of us are able and willing to do only for my wife to sit down taking care of her baby!!..

But the OP is about the traditional "team work"..<deleted> to that too because you can help other people but in my experience other people turn up to help you NOT when they are needed but when they are available..

I have spent the last 3 years drumming a business sense into my wife's head and MAKING her seperate business responsibilities and family responsibilities. It has been a hard battle but now they all understand...

[IsaanAussie]

Mr Ploppy

I take your point. I too have an occasional moan to my wife for being too generous but that is part of her nature.

I would say though that if the occasional meal and drinks for the workers is threatening the viability of your business then it can't be very profitable. I think these costs need to be built into any biz plan as they are more or less inevitable.

Hi Mate..I have no problems with occasional meals and drinks as mentioned in my last paragraph on my previous post.but my biggest problem ( On most issues) is Yai. When we have piecework, for instance filling the soil into 3,000 growing bags, our regular workers turn up as individuals as is their wish but last time Yai turned up with 3 of my wife's sisters, 1 husband, and 5 kids with me and my family working too that is 13 meals....and also takes my wife and one daughter out of the working equation cos they are cooking and washing up..

..Twice my wife has employed her sister to do some labouring tasks that any of us are able and willing to do only for my wife to sit down taking care of her baby!!..

But the OP is about the traditional "team work"..<deleted> to that too because you can help other people but in my experience other people turn up to help you NOT when they are needed but when they are available..

I have spent the last 3 years drumming a business sense into my wife's head and MAKING her seperate business responsibilities and family responsibilities. It has been a hard battle but now they all understand...

You think they understand and are going to change to suit you, honestly? I have been down this road and it keeps getting narrower. We are the visitors and the culture here is Thai, I have tried hard to live up to what I was taught as a child and thought "they" understood. Can I offer a tip? Give yourseld a break and take a lesson from Mrs Ploppy every once in a while

[plopmeister]

Mr Ploppy

I take your point. I too have an occasional moan to my wife for being too generous but that is part of her nature.

I would say though that if the occasional meal and drinks for the workers is threatening the viability of your business then it can't be very profitable. I think these costs need to be built into any biz plan as they are more or less inevitable.

Hi Mate..I have no problems with occasional meals and drinks as mentioned in my last paragraph on my previous post.but my biggest problem ( On most issues) is Yai. When we have piecework, for instance filling the soil into 3,000 growing bags, our regular workers turn up as individuals as is their wish but last time Yai turned up with 3 of my wife's sisters, 1 husband, and 5 kids with me and my family working too that is 13 meals....and also takes my wife and one daughter out of the working equation cos they are cooking and washing up..

..Twice my wife has employed her sister to do some labouring tasks that any of us are able and willing to do only for my wife to sit down taking care of her baby!!..

But the OP is about the traditional "team work"..<deleted> to that too because you can help other people but in my experience other people turn up to help you NOT when they are needed but when they are available..

I have spent the last 3 years drumming a business sense into my wife's head and MAKING her seperate business responsibilities and family responsibilities. It has been a hard battle but now they all understand...

You think they understand and are going to change to suit you, honestly? I have been down this road and it keeps getting narrower. We are the visitors and the culture here is Thai, I have tried hard to live up to what I was taught as a child and thought "they" understood. Can I offer a tip? Give yourseld a break and take a lesson from Mrs Ploppy every once in a while

Yep I know what you mean but at the end of the day money talks and the loss of face of us closing down and selling the machinery would be too much for them to bear.

It is a business that I insist should be now self funding and with enough profit to feed the family. I do not intend putting any more money into it so if it fails then som nam na. I have other businesses in Thailand that makes me self sufficient if she wants to revert back to the old ways upto her....

[Colin Yai]

I find the 'village socieo-dynamics' amusing in that it resembles the western world a bit, but they are so cut off from the 1st world. The keeping up with the Smiths is saving face here, and, shit rolls downhill here to.

Having come from the ussa, where the banks and gov together have run the grand financial ponzi scheme probably to its near end, and leading edge of the mess was the housing bubble collapse, I'd say it's 'game on' in Thailand.

It seem banks are pushing car/truck loans like crazy and real estate prices have gotten totally silly, allowed, fueled, and encourage by banks. In the little shit-hole town I'm in, some raw land is going for millions. There's a 6 rai lot in town next to a car repair shop, the lot is mostly just a pond from water drainage but it's on the main drag. Car shop guy says the owner has declined 45 mil and expects higher offers. Frik'n nuts is what I call it for an undeveloped plot in a 2nd world dirty dusty muddy town populated with bumpkins mostly but one generation from being 3rd world peasants. I am of the opinion that when the next 1st world financial mess hits it will mess up Thailand's export economy and then down goes real estate because it will stop rising. And for the bumpkins with baht signs in their eyes trying to sell farm land for orders of magnitude higher prices that but five years ago, greedy little suckers will get stuck when the tide turns.

There's going to be a very big sum-num-na one of these days.

Nice one CC, Obviously your finger is well and truly "on the pulse"

[Mosha]

I agree. I was here two years after the 1997 crisis and could not believe what was available for sale at bargain basement prices, the rush to get out of trouble, the level of nonperforming loans was staggering. With the cost of living rising so quickly and finance available in the inflationary rather than investment areas, the gun is being cocked again.

As far as farming is concerned the cost of such labour as remains is just crazy. They grow chili here off season. Too much but that is another issue. At its peak with the first green chili for sale the farmgate prices hit the mid thirties, within weeks red chili was getting not much more than half.

Pickers were hard to find and not many that would work for the few baht a kg that was standard last year. I heard one guy explain that since people in Bangkok now got 300 baht a day, he didnt figure he should take less. Since he thought he could pick (at a leisurely pace) about 10kg a day, he wanted 30 baht a kg to pick the crop. Say what? TIT

I have been saying for months. 300 ฿/day in a non 300฿ area is BS. You can't get casual labour in Ranong for less. The minimum official wage is well below that number.

[plopmeister]

I find the 'village socieo-dynamics' amusing in that it resembles the western world a bit, but they are so cut off from the 1st world. The keeping up with the Smiths is saving face here, and, shit rolls downhill here to.

Having come from the ussa, where the banks and gov together have run the grand financial ponzi scheme probably to its near end, and leading edge of the mess was the housing bubble collapse, I'd say it's 'game on' in Thailand.

It seem banks are pushing car/truck loans like crazy and real estate prices have gotten totally silly, allowed, fueled, and encourage by banks. In the little shit-hole town I'm in, some raw land is going for millions. There's a 6 rai lot in town next to a car repair shop, the lot is mostly just a pond from water drainage but it's on the main drag. Car shop guy says the owner has declined 45 mil and expects higher offers. Frik'n nuts is what I call it for an undeveloped plot in a 2nd world dirty dusty muddy town populated with bumpkins mostly but one generation from being 3rd world peasants. I am of the opinion that when the next 1st world financial mess hits it will mess up Thailand's export economy and then down goes real estate because it will stop rising. And for the bumpkins with baht signs in their eyes trying to sell farm land for orders of magnitude higher prices that but five years ago, greedy little suckers will get stuck when the tide turns.

There's going to be a very big sum-num-na one of these days.

Nice one CC, Obviously your finger is well and truly "on the pulse"

Agree. After the floods in Bangkok the farmers are generating a self perpetuating myth that land prices are going to go through the roof....yeh right...Alot are in negative equity....lets see what their grand children think about Thaksin in 30 or 40 years time when they find out that a Saudi Bank owns their land...

[plopmeister]

I agree. I was here two years after the 1997 crisis and could not believe what was available for sale at bargain basement prices, the rush to get out of trouble, the level of nonperforming loans was staggering. With the cost of living rising so quickly and finance available in the inflationary rather than investment areas, the gun is being cocked again.

As far as farming is concerned the cost of such labour as remains is just crazy. They grow chili here off season. Too much but that is another issue. At its peak with the first green chili for sale the farmgate prices hit the mid thirties, within weeks red chili was getting not much more than half.

Pickers were hard to find and not many that would work for the few baht a kg that was standard last year. I heard one guy explain that since people in Bangkok now got 300 baht a day, he didnt figure he should take less. Since he thought he could pick (at a leisurely pace) about 10kg a day, he wanted 30 baht a kg to pick the crop. Say what? TIT

I have been saying for months. 300 ฿/day in a non 300฿ area is BS. You can't get casual labour in Ranong for less. The minimum official wage is well below that number.

The answer as I mentioned earlier is piecework.....You come to my farm..do an agreed amount of work then go to the next farm etc...

...Everybody is happy and the ones that WANT to work will get the 300 Baht a day or more...Those that want to sit and drink seesip degree can...well...sit and drink seesip degree..

[loong]

I do see this rice bowl is full today mentality. Is it a bad thing, I don't know. The people seem happy enough, so who am I to criticise? Certainly, it does make it difficult to hire workers, especially when everybody else is hiring.

Sometimes I think that this is the reason that the rich like to keep the poor poor. If you pay them a decent wage, maybe double the daily rate, you will find that they only work half as many days.

I live in a village about 25Km nrth of Khon Kaen. A lot of the people here work in Korat and kanchanaburi for people who contract cutting sugar cane.

The bosses lend money and the people can go out and buy the latest phones. a new motorbike or whatever. They then send trucks to collect these people around November/December to work off their debt. Many people are in more debt than they can possibly pay back in the 4 or 5 month sugar cane season. And so it goes on. They could actually earn more by working locally, but cannot resist the credit. My brother-in-law is an extremely hard worker and working locally when sugar cane is being harvested can earn 5 or 600 Bt per day, piece work. His wife would build up a debt every year , about 30,000Bt with these contactors. For 3 years, I paid the debt and was paid back in full because he was working locally with pay in line with the efffort that he put in.

Last year, she built up a debt of 50,000 Bt with these people. I refused to cover the debt. She then sent her husband to ask for money. He was obviously so uncomfortable, especially as I refused. She sent him a number of times and eventually I did lend 10,000 Bt. Whatever preconceptions you may have about Thai people, I have a great deal of respect for my brother-in- law, he will do anything to help and will work every waking hour to support his family. He actually desrves a medal for what he does.

One year on, and because he has been working for the contractors, not enough money to pay back one baht of the money that was borrowed.

The moral of this story is that so often, the only way to get people to work is by putting them in debt. If no debt and enugh to eat. many people will not be intersted in working

[somo]

In most cases the answer is indeed piecework but that is not always possible. I am not sure what your business is but I grow cassava. I can get prices for ploughing and planting but not always for spraying weeds and certainly not for harvesting. I am also not always around to oversee the work so that probably adds a bit to the overall bill. The thing is I don't believe in trying to impose a strict budget on Thai workers it just aint gonna work out. Here there is always a bit of ebb and flow and you just have to go with it or blow a gasket.

I do think we are all very lucky to be able to do a bit of farming for a relatively small outlay. It just wouldn't have been possible for me back in the UK where unless you half a million quid you can't start anything involving land. In that sense Thailand really is a land of opportunity so I guess accepting their ways is a small price to pay.

[IsaanAussie]

So, we all understand the issue is real and makes things very tough. So what can be done about it?

In my case I do as much as I can personally and when the wife can muster up some help for me there is always something they can do.

This year we will sow rice as usual but under protest as we will be pillaged by the locals at harvest time as usual. This year it will be expensive. All I can do is wait as long as possible until the queues shorten. Have to admit it has occurred to me to wait too long and miss out. Wait until Noah paddles past would suit me down to the ground.