Questions Over Nasa Request To Use U-Tapao

[webfact]

Questions over Nasa request to use U-Tapao

The Nation, Agencies

BANGKOK: - The highly sensitive issue of how Nasa will utilise U-Tapao Airport in Rayong will likely be a topic during the scheduled discussion between a US high-ranking official and Supreme Commander General Thanasak Patimapakorn.

"They will meet [tomorrow] at the Royal Thai Armed Forces headquarters," a source said yesterday.

The plan by the National Aeronautics and Space Administra-tion, an independent agency of the US government, to use Thailand's naval airport as the base for its most complex and ambitious airborne science campaign of the year has raised suspicion. Some critics are worried the campaign may involve security issues.

Nasa has insisted the SEAC4RS campaign or Southeast Asia Composition, Cloud, Climate Coupling Regional Study is for the purpose of understanding the complex meteorological system. The campaign is designed to probe a vast expanse of the Southeast Asian atmosphere from top to bottom at the critical time of year when strong weather systems and prolific regional air pollution pump chemicals and particles high into the atmosphere with potentially global consequences for Earth's climate.

"Southeast Asia is a really important part of the world. A large fraction of the world's population lives there," Brian Toon, a veteran of Nasa airborne campaigns, said on Nasa's website.

"With SEAC4RS we hope to better understand how all these things interact," he said.

Govt approval needed

SEAC4RS is expected to take to the field in August but will first have to win approval from the government of Thailand, where the flights will originate.

Nasa's initiative comes as the US plans to move the bulk of its naval fleet to Asia-Pacific by 2020 as part of its strategy to enhance its regional presence.

US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta told an Asian security conference in Singapore on Saturday that 60 per cent of the US navy's ships would be deployed in the Asia-Pacific region to rebalance its interests.

Yesterday Panetta began a trip to Cam Ranh Bay in Vietnam, becoming the highest ranking US official to visit the former US military base since the war years.

He toured the navy supply ship USNS Byrd, which is berthed in the bay for maintenance, then travelled on to Hanoi for meetings with defence officials and Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung.

The talks were expected to focus on defence cooperation, maritime security, humanitarian assistance and disaster relief.

-- The Nation 2012-06-04

[Andelu]

For some reasons I wouldn't trust them...

[noitom]

This sounds like a preposterous waste of US taxpayer money for no residual benefit to its citizens at a time when many are suffering economic hardships. Hopefully, the Thais will find other reasons to challenge this scheme and reject it. Unfortunately, if money flows into lining the pockets of Thai politicians, it will probably go forward, at the expense of US taxpayers.

[tomross46]

NASA, is code for the christian organization outside Washingtom DC. Christians In Action.

[Ricardo]

Could this research not be carried-out by Thailand's own space-science industry ? Hub of meteorological-research !

[crobe]

This sounds like a preposterous waste of US taxpayer money for no residual benefit to its citizens at a time when many are suffering economic hardships. Hopefully, the Thais will find other reasons to challenge this scheme and reject it. Unfortunately, if money flows into lining the pockets of Thai politicians, it will probably go forward, at the expense of US taxpayers.

I am amazed when some people politicise scientific research, and in doing so become hypocritical.

Especially in America now we see the trend to criticise any science that is not directly performed by the private sector or is defence related.

In the 1970x and 1980s there was a preposterous waste of US taxpayers money at a time of economic hardship (including the oil spike) where the US was funding things like DARPA and contributing to big science projects like CERN.

But of course these give "no residual benefits" other than the internet and world wide web that the author is currently using to do his/her post.

Crobe

Edited June 4, 2012 by crobe

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I am amazed when some people politicise scientific research, and in doing so become hypocritical.

I don't see how you can find this surprising when the facts remain that the US government's science research is well over 90% targeted toward military and "national security" goals, and it continues to pursue its (corporation's) interests throughout the world through violent force, systematic deception and total disregard for the ideals on which the nation was founded.

Not saying that NASA is used as a cover for military activities, but if it came out that it were I don't think many would be surprised, except some of the few US citizens that remain naive about the fact that the military-industrial complex have had near total control of our media and political/economic culture for the past fifty years.

[crobe]

Could this research not be carried-out by Thailand's own space-science industry ? Hub of meteorological-research !

Probably not at this time, although the newer developing countries are advancing in their meteorological research quite rapidly now.

What is disappointing is the focus on the military aspect as this is pure civil research which should be more geared towards working with GISTDA and the other scientific agencies, and helping them develop the capabilities so that NASA does not need to do such "field-trips" anymore.

The military focus comes about because U-Tapao is owned by the Thai navy and therefore any contacts have to come through military channels - even though this air base is now used as both a civilian airport and as a civil aircraft maintenance base.

There has always been a bit of ambivalence in Thailand about the US involvement in U-Tapao as this was used as the staging point for B52s in the Vietnam war (because of its long runway), and any new usage by Americans will always be looked at through the prism of increasing military presence, whether this would be a consequence or not.

crobe

[OzMick]

It is a well-known internet fact that all NASA's climate research aircraft are equipped to carry multiple nuclear tipped missiles. But it is their silent and near invisible black helicopters that are the scariest as they can scan minds even through aluminium foil hats.

Sent from my Cray XT5-HE laptop computer

Edited June 4, 2012 by OzMick

[Sateev]

I don't see how you can find this surprising when the facts remain that the US government's science research is well over 90% targeted toward military and "national security" goals, and it continues to pursue its (corporation's) interests throughout the world through violent force, systematic deception and total disregard for the ideals on which the nation was founded.

Not saying that NASA is used as a cover for military activities, but if it came out that it were I don't think many would be surprised, except some of the few US citizens that remain naive about the fact that the military-industrial complex have had near total control of our media and political/economic culture for the past fifty years.

Please document or otherwise support your "...well over 90%" statement.

It's well and good to be suspicious about things ANY government tells you are good for us all, but sweeping and unsupported statements like these are counter-productive.

[crobe]

It is a well-known internet fact that all NASA's climate research aircraft are equipped to carry multiple nuclear tipped missiles. But it is their silent and near invisible black helicopters that are the scariest as they can scan minds even through aluminium foil hats.

Sent from my Cray XT5-HE laptop computer

They also have a quantum transport machine that can remove all farm animals and replace them with exact copies.

Crobe

[gand]

It is a well-known internet fact that all NASA's climate research aircraft are equipped to carry multiple nuclear tipped missiles. But it is their silent and near invisible black helicopters that are the scariest as they can scan minds even through aluminium foil hats.

Sent from my Cray XT5-HE laptop computer

Hahaha, They would learn a lot from scanning Thai politicians.

[Woodcaulk]

NASA, is code for the christian organization outside Washingtom DC. Christians In Action.

Ah yes.....Horny Christian scientist who will be out in the bars of Ban Chang, mon.-thur. On the weekend in Pattaya or a quick flight from U-tapao to Phnom Pehn for fun with the Khmers at the Naga Casino

[Thaddeus]

It is a well-known internet fact that all NASA's climate research aircraft are equipped to carry multiple nuclear tipped missiles. But it is their silent and near invisible black helicopters that are the scariest as they can scan minds even through aluminium foil hats.

Sent from my Cray XT5-HE laptop computer

Hahaha, They would learn a lot from scanning Thai politicians.

No they wouldn't.

[Payboy]

Sure it's not NASA disco just relocating? It was at Klong Tan and had to close before the airport express was built.

[KeyserSoze01]

Just google HARRP and read a bit. All is there, including the conspiracy theories.

[mania2301]

I'm sure this is all linked to the fact that China is increasing its militry spending.....>_>

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect App

[petercool]

I had always assumed that existing satellites are usable for weather pattern research so it is unclear what ground based research planes or facilities could add to those. That NASA has severely bent the truth in the past is not news, though, and while mentioned as "an independent agency of the US government" it is not independent of US Military branches as I understand it.

[gand]

Satellites can only do so much, planes are still being used to gather information on hurricanes and typhoons also being used by Taiwan and Japan.

[crobe]

I had always assumed that existing satellites are usable for weather pattern research so it is unclear what ground based research planes or facilities could add to those. That NASA has severely bent the truth in the past is not news, though, and while mentioned as "an independent agency of the US government" it is not independent of US Military branches as I understand it.

The satellite data available gives a lot of information, but there is a great value in combining concurrent data at different levels - ground level sensors, airborne sensors on aircraft, balloons and radiosonde rockets, plus the satellite data.

One of the main benefits of this is to do a cal/val campaign where the current data is used to calibrate the sensors on the different mechanisms, including the satellites - so that degradation, orbit decay etc. can be calculated in (there have been erroneous calculations of data because satellite decay was not factored in).

NASA has a dual civil/military role, and that is why it is arranging the campaign as a military-military agreement instead of NOAA, which would have been a more appropriate agency to be performing the testing.

Crobe

[OZEMADE]

Could this research not be carried-out by Thailand's own space-science industry ? Hub of meteorological-research !

Probably not at this time, although the newer developing countries are advancing in their meteorological research quite rapidly now.

What is disappointing is the focus on the military aspect as this is pure civil research which should be more geared towards working with GISTDA and the other scientific agencies, and helping them develop the capabilities so that NASA does not need to do such "field-trips" anymore.

The military focus comes about because U-Tapao is owned by the Thai navy and therefore any contacts have to come through military channels - even though this air base is now used as both a civilian airport and as a civil aircraft maintenance base.

There has always been a bit of ambivalence in Thailand about the US involvement in U-Tapao as this was used as the staging point for B52s in the Vietnam war (because of its long runway), and any new usage by Americans will always be looked at through the prism of increasing military presence, whether this would be a consequence or not.

crobe

I think it is of great military significance, as the US is pulling some of its Marines out of Japan and moving them to Darwin Australia where they have already built facilities to house them, in fact it is a massive Military base. They are also moving one of their fleets to that area and building up their presence in the Pacific. Further to this they are negotiating with the Philippine Government to move back to Subic Bay and to Angeles City where they originally had another huge military presence and at one time had nuclear silos on the Air Base.

This all seems to be coming about only recently after the Chinese were found to be increasing the size of their already huge army, North Korea not playing the game messing with Nukes and Ballistic Missiles, China threatening to take some islands off Japan, and the Thai Government agreeing with China to allow China to build fast rail from China to the border south and to the ports around Thailand.

The Americans are naturally worried and I can't blame them the way the world is today, they have to protect their Allies and their Interests.

Edited June 4, 2012 by OZEMADE

[DGS1244]

For some reasons I wouldn't trust them...

Bit of a stupid statement, at least give some of your reasons. Why is it so many people are always 'negative' when it comes to american research etc. If they want to spend their money in Thailand let them, all good for the economy. And no I am not american.

[Skywalker69]

It is a well-known internet fact that all NASA's climate research aircraft are equipped to carry multiple nuclear tipped missiles. But it is their silent and near invisible black helicopters that are the scariest as they can scan minds even through aluminium foil hats.

Sent from my Cray XT5-HE laptop computer

[crobe]

Could this research not be carried-out by Thailand's own space-science industry ? Hub of meteorological-research !

Probably not at this time, although the newer developing countries are advancing in their meteorological research quite rapidly now.

What is disappointing is the focus on the military aspect as this is pure civil research which should be more geared towards working with GISTDA and the other scientific agencies, and helping them develop the capabilities so that NASA does not need to do such "field-trips" anymore.

The military focus comes about because U-Tapao is owned by the Thai navy and therefore any contacts have to come through military channels - even though this air base is now used as both a civilian airport and as a civil aircraft maintenance base.

There has always been a bit of ambivalence in Thailand about the US involvement in U-Tapao as this was used as the staging point for B52s in the Vietnam war (because of its long runway), and any new usage by Americans will always be looked at through the prism of increasing military presence, whether this would be a consequence or not.

crobe

I think it is of great military significance, as the US is pulling some of its Marines out of Japan and moving them to Darwin Australia where they have already built facilities to house them, in fact it is a massive Military base. They are also moving one of their fleets to that area and building up their presence in the Pacific. Further to this they are negotiating with the Philippine Government to move back to Subic Bay and to Angeles City where they originally had another huge military presence and at one time had nuclear silos on the Air Base.

This all seems to be coming about only recently after the Chinese were found to be increasing the size of their already huge army, North Korea not playing the game messing with Nukes and Ballistic Missiles, China threatening to take some islands off Japan, and the Thai Government agreeing with China to allow China to build fast rail from China to the border south and to the ports around Thailand.

The Americans are naturally worried and I can't blame them the way the world is today, they have to protect their Allies and their Interests.

While I agree with what you say generally, I think you attribute too much geo-political thinking to the way in which NASA chooses these campaigns - having known a lot of them over the years, although they are advised which sites are possible by the state department, there is not much joined up thinking in terms of overall American strategic interest.

I would hazard a guess that the decision was made on:

- Where is it possible to get the data for this region?

- Who has a nice big airbase that we could use?

- Are they still friendly with us?

- Where is a good place for a holiday?

Remember this is the agency where the head (Charlie Bolden) went to the Middle East and stated that the US should be more co-operative with countries in the region regarding space development, and promptly got lambasted in his home press...technically he was right, but geo-politically a bit naive.

Crobe

[EvilDrSomkid]

As usual, a bunch uninformed drivel (not to mention anti-American bias) being posted.

If you take this news at face value, I see nothing strange or suspicious about climate research in SEA.

The US government has been doing high level atmospheric research for many years, nothing new there.

Some people here seem to have a little bit of a clue, but it is not exactly surpising NASA wants to set this up.

The issue here is information about the South China Seas and environment. This is a good cover for heavy surveilance.

The PRC will protest heavily and try to nix the deal through their stooges in Thailand, of course, but the US is serious about it 'pivot' towards Asia.

I recommend reading up on articles on The Diplomat regarding the South China Sea matter and the belligerence of the Chinese in this area.It is not just the PRC wanting a few islands from Japan. They basically claim ALL the Paracells and ALL the Spratleys:

http://the-diplomat.com/cse/?cx=005646185034829730863%3Acafmw8fp7e0&cof=FORID%3A9&ie=UTF-8&q=south+china+seas&sa=&siteurl=the-diplomat.com%2Fregion%2Fsoutheast-asia%2F&ref=

[DGS1244]

As usual, a bunch uninformed drivel (not to mention anti-American bias) being posted.

If you take this news at face value, I see nothing strange or suspicious about climate research in SEA.

The US government has been doing high level atmospheric research for many years, nothing new there.

Some people here seem to have a little bit of a clue, but it is not exactly surpising NASA wants to set this up.

The issue here is information about the South China Seas and environment. This is a good cover for heavy surveilance.

The PRC will protest heavily and try to nix the deal through their stooges in Thailand, of course, but the US is serious about it 'pivot' towards Asia.

I recommend reading up on articles on The Diplomat regarding the South China Sea matter and the belligerence of the Chinese in this area.It is not just the PRC wanting a few islands from Japan. They basically claim ALL the Paracells and ALL the Spratleys:

http://the-diplomat....east-asia/&ref=

For once I agree with you, not always but this time OK.

[EvilDrSomkid]

While I agree with what you say generally, I think you attribute too much geo-political thinking to the way in which NASA chooses these campaigns - having known a lot of them over the years, although they are advised which sites are possible by the state department, there is not much joined up thinking in terms of overall American strategic interest.

I would hazard a guess that the decision was made on:

- Where is it possible to get the data for this region?

- Who has a nice big airbase that we could use?

- Are they still friendly with us?

- Where is a good place for a holiday?

Remember this is the agency where the head (Charlie Bolden) went to the Middle East and stated that the US should be more co-operative with countries in the region regarding space development, and promptly got lambasted in his home press...technically he was right, but geo-politically a bit naive.

Crobe

This is a geo-political matter, but not overtly so. Just looking at a map of the region, U-tapao is a good spot for a flight center. Darwin is too far.

They just want to use the airport, what's the big deal? The Americans know what a bunch clowns run the show here.

The Thai Navy will want some sort of 'cut', of course, but isn't it normal to pay for use of airfields?

However, if NASA gets a 'no', then that will send a clear message to the Americans and they will act accordingly. Thailand=off friendly list.

The Thais would be silly to reject the request. They also know this. I hope.

Btw, this is not about space deverlopment, but about having constant air coverage in the SCS area.

[EvilDrSomkid]

As usual, a bunch uninformed drivel (not to mention anti-American bias) being posted.

If you take this news at face value, I see nothing strange or suspicious about climate research in SEA.

The US government has been doing high level atmospheric research for many years, nothing new there.

Some people here seem to have a little bit of a clue, but it is not exactly surpising NASA wants to set this up.

The issue here is information about the South China Seas and environment. This is a good cover for heavy surveilance.

The PRC will protest heavily and try to nix the deal through their stooges in Thailand, of course, but the US is serious about it 'pivot' towards Asia.

I recommend reading up on articles on The Diplomat regarding the South China Sea matter and the belligerence of the Chinese in this area.It is not just the PRC wanting a few islands from Japan. They basically claim ALL the Paracells and ALL the Spratleys:

http://the-diplomat....east-asia/&ref=

For once I agree with you, not always but this time OK.

Thank you. Not sure what you usually disagree with me on.

Edited June 4, 2012 by EvilDrSomkid

[redroo]

Out of selfintrest

they will spend money,

OIL

[EvilDrSomkid]

Out of selfintrest

they will spend money,

OIL

Its not just about oil, it is also about fishing grounds and more importantly, sea lanes.