Red Shirts To Rally Outside Parliament: Bangkok

[Ferangled]

Red-shirt spokesman Worawut Wichaidit said the change in plan was due to fear of people with ill intention taking the opportunity to cause chaos.

A subject on which the redmob can speak with great erudition.

and the yellows

My question to you, is would you really expect see the redmob/PTP/Thaksin regime step down with equally gentle grace? Or would you see them go out with a 'bang', as they are dragged kicking and screaming away from their golden trough.

I guess the answer would really depend on whether or not they were actually voted out of office doesn't it? The blatant difference being they have actually won a general election, Abhisit didn't.... he lost and had no choice but to step down.

If they are to be dragged kicking and screaming away from "the golden trough" without losing an election, simply so others can feed, I'm quite sure there will be trouble, as there would be if the roles were reversed.

Both sides of this coin take to the streets if they don't get what they want through the courts, we've seen it time and time again.

[pipo1000]

It is almost like a cartoon in that Pua Thai just won't reset the clock and make it look like certain things never happened when we all know they did. How stupid do they think the whole country is?

Take a look around and you will get your answer.

[Yunla]

I guess the answer would really depend on whether or not they were actually voted out of office doesn't it? The blatant difference being they have actually won a general election, Abhisit didn't.... he lost and had no choice but to step down.

Yes, I said in my post to paraphrase ;

Abhisit stepped down gracefully when he was voted out, would you expect the same from the redmob. Obviously in this question is implied the same parameters for both integers i.e. he was voted out and my question was regarding PTP being voted out.

By leaping on and misinterpreting my question you have also failed to answer it.

[metisdead]

A post containing a derogatory generalization toward Thais has been removed.

[Ferangled]

I guess the answer would really depend on whether or not they were actually voted out of office doesn't it? The blatant difference being they have actually won a general election, Abhisit didn't.... he lost and had no choice but to step down.

Yes, I said in my post to paraphrase ;

Abhisit stepped down gracefully when he was voted out, would you expect the same from the redmob. Obviously in this question is implied the same parameters for both integers i.e. he was voted out and my question was regarding PTP being voted out.

By leaping on and misinterpreting my question you have also failed to answer it.

My apologies, I took your question in relation to the OP and recent events in Thailand.

So you actually meant if the PTP lose the next general election will they step down as gracefully as Abhisit?

I'm pretty sure that any party that lost a general election would have little choice but to step down, whether or not they would do so as eloquently as Abhisit remains to be seen... of course we're talking about something that's not scheduled until 2015 is it?

I think a far more pertinent question would be do you really think the "Democrats" will wait for the next general elections?

History suggests that they won't.

[Yunla]

My apologies, I took your question in relation to the OP and recent events in Thailand.

So you actually meant if the PTP lose the next general election will they step down as gracefully as Abhisit?

I'm pretty sure that any party that lost a general election would have little choice but to step down, whether or not they would do so as eloquently as Abhisit remains to be seen... of course we're talking about something that's not scheduled until 2015 is it?

I think a far more pertinent question would be do you really think the "Democrats" will wait for the next general elections?

History suggests that they won't.

No need to apologise at all, my question was a theoretical one, in which (in my case) I would look at the autocratic leanings of PTP, their attempts to overturn rulings of the supreme court, their refusal to even admit reading what are patently obviously their own bills, much less discuss those bills openly, their attempts to push forward these outrageous bills with quite literally insane speed, and finally their call-to-arms of their street brigade when their undemocratic actions within parliament have finally caused intolerable outrage among the Opposition and most impartial observers. My contention is that PTP are not interested in democracy with its tiresome debates and diplomacy, but in obtaining and maintaining power by any means. This means that I am suggesting if and when PTP are voted out they would certainly not go quietly let alone gracefully.

My question and contention was directed not at you but at Carra in response to their post directed at me, I replied in the same terms along the yellow/red lines Carra posted at me. My original point was actually how the mob have been mobilised outside parliament despite their own party being in a position of government leadership inside, and how imo PTP have the democratic position to address disputes using the tools of open democratic debate within the building, while choosing not to use, even to abuse these democratic tools they instead call their street-team to entrench and enforce outside the building, protecting PTP's refusal to openly debate their own bills.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Yunla

[GentlemanJim]

Red shirts start rallying at Parliament

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The red shirts have on Thursday's morning started rallying at Parliament aimed at impeaching the Constitution Court judges.

Police expect the crowds to surge to about 5,000 later in the day and about four companies of policemen have been deployed to keep peace.

The rally speakers are to address the crowds in the afternoon.

The red shirts are expected to launch a signature campaign to remove the judges following a controversial decision to launch the judicial inquiry into the charter change.

Organisers said the rally might last more than one day and that the red shirts would be careful not to spill out into the Royal Plaza where the Dhamma March protesters, seen as allies of the yellow shirts, have been encamping since last week to oppose the reconciliation bill.

A number of red-shirt leaders have hinted that the rally would continue tomorrow, coinciding with the Parliament session.

The protesters want lawmakers to complete the passage of the charter change bill in defiance of the court order to put the vote on hold pending the judicial inquiry into the matter.

-- The Nation 2012-06-07

So lets get this right. A red mob is assembling, having been whipped up by Jatuporn and Nattawut to try and impeach the 9 judges of the constitution court. The 9 judges appointed by HM himself to be independent arbitrators on all electoral matters and to ensure that any bills passed through the house do not illegally threaten the nations constitution or it's Monarchy. The bill has simply been delayed so that due diligence may be carried out on its contents (pity that was never done with the Patriot Act eh!), and it is the irght of the court to do so under Article 68 without the involvement of the AG if time is critical function.

I can't help feeling that Thaksin is calculating all this and trying to provoke a severe reaction from elsewhere. This WILL all end in tears for many people. Common and MP alike.

[webfact]

Red Shirts start gathering outside parliament, collecting signatures seeking impeachment against Constitution Court judges, traffic paralyzed /MCOT

[MunterHunter]

So lets get this right. A red mob is assembling, having been whipped up by Jatuporn and Nattawut to try and impeach the 9 judges of the constitution court. The 9 judges appointed by HM himself to be independent arbitrators on all electoral matters and to ensure that any bills passed through the house do not illegally threaten the nations constitution or it's Monarchy.

Almost sounds like another LM charge will be coming soon...

[rixalex]

I guess the answer would really depend on whether or not they were actually voted out of office doesn't it?

I'm sure whatever the results would be, they would argue that they weren't voted out.

Take the way that they had no qualms whatsoever at how Somchai was able to stand up and replace Samak as PM, via parliamentary processes, but when Abhisit replaces Somchai, via the exact same process, suddenly it is deemed completely unfair and Abhisit is told to stand down immediately or face the destruction of the capital city. Yes i appreciate the reasons why they didn't like the way Abhisit became PM, with outside influences involved and a perception that he lacked a mandate, but it's hardly like there weren't outside influences involved in Somchai's promotion either, and however they felt, Abhisit was the legitimate PM, so they should have accepted that and spent their time regrouping and campaigning for the next election, which wouldn't have been a long wait - of course would have been an even shorter wait had they accepted Abhisit's offer of early elections - but that wasn't good enough - much better they felt to spend their time causing complete anti-democratic mayhem.

Wishful thinking to ever expect good grace from these people, no matter what the circumstances.

[GentlemanJim]

So lets get this right. A red mob is assembling, having been whipped up by Jatuporn and Nattawut to try and impeach the 9 judges of the constitution court. The 9 judges appointed by HM himself to be independent arbitrators on all electoral matters and to ensure that any bills passed through the house do not illegally threaten the nations constitution or it's Monarchy.

Almost sounds like another LM charge will be coming soon...

Well I would go so far as to say that the decision to try and impeach the Judges of the Constitution Court is a direct threat/challenge to the Monarchy in itself. The decision has not been made without considerable thought. Just what dangerous game is the Megalomaniac and his side kicks playing now. They seem to have upped the anti. Does it not seem that Thaksin et al are actually trying to provoke military intervention. Whilst I enjoy watching from the side, I am no voyeur of blood sports.

[Ferangled]

My apologies, I took your question in relation to the OP and recent events in Thailand.

So you actually meant if the PTP lose the next general election will they step down as gracefully as Abhisit?

I'm pretty sure that any party that lost a general election would have little choice but to step down, whether or not they would do so as eloquently as Abhisit remains to be seen... of course we're talking about something that's not scheduled until 2015 is it?

I think a far more pertinent question would be do you really think the "Democrats" will wait for the next general elections?

History suggests that they won't.

No need to apologise at all, my question was a theoretical one, in which (in my case) I would look at the autocratic leanings of PTP, their attempts to overturn rulings of the supreme court, their refusal to even admit reading what are patently obviously their own bills, much less discuss those bills openly, their attempts to push forward these outrageous bills with quite literally insane speed, and finally their call-to-arms of their street brigade when their undemocratic actions within parliament have finally caused intolerable outrage among the Opposition and most impartial observers. My contention is that PTP are not interested in democracy with its tiresome debates and diplomacy, but in obtaining and maintaining power by any means. This means that I am suggesting if and when PTP are voted out they would certaiinly not go quietly let alone gracefully.

My question and contention was directed not at you but Carra in response to their post directed at me, I replied in the same terms along the yellow/red lines Carra posted at me. My original point was actually how the mob have been mobilised outside parliament despite their own party being in leadership inside, and how imo PTP have the position to address disputes using the tools of open democratic debate within the building, while choosing not to use, even to abuse these democratic tools they instead call their street-team to entrench and enforce outside the building, PTP's refusal to openly debate their own bills.

Yunla, you simply turned Worawut's comments around, noting that red shirts were familiar with causing the same chaos he alluded to, Carra pointed out that the reds aren't the only ones capable of forming a mob and causing chaos, the yellows have considerable experience of this to.

I note that you got a response to your question but chose to ignore mine. Do you think the Dems will patiently wait for the next general elections?

[Valentine]

My apologies, I took your question in relation to the OP and recent events in Thailand.

So you actually meant if the PTP lose the next general election will they step down as gracefully as Abhisit?

I'm pretty sure that any party that lost a general election would have little choice but to step down, whether or not they would do so as eloquently as Abhisit remains to be seen... of course we're talking about something that's not scheduled until 2015 is it?

I think a far more pertinent question would be do you really think the "Democrats" will wait for the next general elections?

History suggests that they won't.

What history are you talking about? Every party has to wait for the next election.

[jonclark]

My apologies, I took your question in relation to the OP and recent events in Thailand.

So you actually meant if the PTP lose the next general election will they step down as gracefully as Abhisit?

I'm pretty sure that any party that lost a general election would have little choice but to step down, whether or not they would do so as eloquently as Abhisit remains to be seen... of course we're talking about something that's not scheduled until 2015 is it?

I think a far more pertinent question would be do you really think the "Democrats" will wait for the next general elections?

History suggests that they won't.

No need to apologise at all, my question was a theoretical one, in which (in my case) I would look at the autocratic leanings of PTP, their attempts to overturn rulings of the supreme court, their refusal to even admit reading what are patently obviously their own bills, much less discuss those bills openly, their attempts to push forward these outrageous bills with quite literally insane speed, and finally their call-to-arms of their street brigade when their undemocratic actions within parliament have finally caused intolerable outrage among the Opposition and most impartial observers. My contention is that PTP are not interested in democracy with its tiresome debates and diplomacy, but in obtaining and maintaining power by any means. This means that I am suggesting if and when PTP are voted out they would certaiinly not go quietly let alone gracefully.

My question and contention was directed not at you but Carra in response to their post directed at me, I replied in the same terms along the yellow/red lines Carra posted at me. My original point was actually how the mob have been mobilised outside parliament despite their own party being in leadership inside, and how imo PTP have the position to address disputes using the tools of open democratic debate within the building, while choosing not to use, even to abuse these democratic tools they instead call their street-team to entrench and enforce outside the building, PTP's refusal to openly debate their own bills.

Yunla, you simply turned Worawut's comments around, noting that red shirts were familiar with causing the same chaos he alluded to, Carra pointed out that the reds aren't the only ones capable of forming a mob and causing chaos, the yellows have considerable experience of this to.

I note that you got a response to your question but chose to ignore mine. Do you think the Dems will patiently wait for the next general elections?

I think the Dems will, but their backers won't - just my view

[MunterHunter]

Well I would go so far as to say that the decision to try and impeach the Judges of the Constitution Court is a direct threat/challenge to the Monarchy in itself. The decision has not been made without considerable thought. Just what dangerous game is the Megalomaniac and his side kicks playing now. They seem to have upped the anti. Does it not seem that Thaksin et al are actually trying to provoke military intervention. Whilst I enjoy watching from the side, I am no voyeur of blood sports.

Well it would begin to seem that way, leaving out the defense of the monarchy in the new bill they are trying to force thru (which as i understand it, is the whole reason the Constitutional Court has now got involved) and then mobilizing their Red Thugs to put pressure on the courts, impeach them and block Parliament... with the occasional cry to amend the LM laws and Jutaporn's "there's a coup coming!" - one does wonder what game TS is playing... could this all be a big smoke screen for something else equally/more evil coming? Or are they just going "hell for lather" to force this one through quickly before it can be stopped?

One thing is certain, i have a bad feeling about the next few months...

[Fookhaht]

Thailand will disappear in destruction due to the reds.

Yes, thanks to the yellows for getting the ball rolling earlier this week with their unlawful blocking of the parliamentary process.

Wait, didn't they get the ball rolling the last round of public disruption too? (Occupying Government House, occupying the airports, etc?)

[saltandpepper]

Thailand will disappear in destruction due to the reds.

Yes, thanks to the yellows for getting the ball rolling earlier this week with their unlawful blocking of the parliamentary process.

Wait, didn't they get the ball rolling the last round of public disruption too? (Occupying Government House, occupying the airports, etc?)

As opposed to Ratchprasong occupation that was fully legal and peaceful of course!

[Yunla]

Yunla, you simply turned Worawut's comments around, noting that red shirts were familiar with causing the same chaos he alluded to, Carra pointed out that the reds aren't the only ones capable of forming a mob and causing chaos, the yellows have considerable experience of this to.

I note that you got a response to your question but chose to ignore mine. Do you think the Dems will patiently wait for the next general elections?

Sorry but your answer of "they will have no choice but to step down" & "remains to be seen" was not an answer to my question. I know that when voted out they have to go out, and I know that the next election is in the future and remains to be seen. I was asking if they will surrender power easily and swiftly with grace and courtesy as is the diplomatic behaviour of statesmen for example Abhisit. You opinion on this as yet unprovided, as is Carra's who posted at me then didn't respond to my reply.

I will nonetheless answer your question, you will notice I am suggesting PTP are avoiding parliamentary debate and trying to force bills through blindly, with utterly despicable lines from PTP's leaders like "I haven't read the bills yet but I'm sure they are the best for everybody ....and you should all accept them". This behaviour of Yingluck and PTP as a whole is infact anathema to the democratic system of passing laws by egalitarian consensus, beckons to autocracy and seeks to maintain control by any means - except for the very means of democratic debate and consensus policymaking. If the PTP continue to abuse the system of government that they have been granted by the electorate, they are open to retribution by the social failsafes that protect that very system from abuse.

If PTP stop their undemocratic behaviour in parliament, stop blanking the Opposition, stop hiding away from transparent debate (especially Yingluck) and openly debate these bills which are the root problem here, I'm sure they will still be in office at the arrival of the next election. If the PTP continue to abuse and trample on the parliamentary process, they should be and maybe will be removed by the systems that are enshrined to protect that parliamentary process - the same as they would be in older more established democracies. I think that answers my views on where this is all going.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Yunla

[Ferangled]

I guess the answer would really depend on whether or not they were actually voted out of office doesn't it?

I'm sure whatever the results would be, they would argue that they weren't voted out.

Take the way that they had no qualms whatsoever at how Somchai was able to stand up and replace Samak as PM, via parliamentary processes, but when Abhisit replaces Somchai, via the exact same process, suddenly it is deemed completely unfair and Abhisit is told to stand down immediately or face the destruction of the capital city. Yes i appreciate the reasons why they didn't like the way Abhisit became PM, with outside influences involved and a perception that he lacked a mandate, but it's hardly like there weren't outside influences involved in Somchai's promotion either, and however they felt, Abhisit was the legitimate PM, so they should have accepted that and spent their time regrouping and campaigning for the next election, which wouldn't have been a long wait - of course would have been an even shorter wait had they accepted Abhisit's offer of early elections - but that wasn't good enough - much better they felt to spend their time causing complete anti-democratic mayhem.

Wishful thinking to ever expect good grace from these people, no matter what the circumstances.

I note you chose to completely ignore the fact that the other side had no qualms in using this very same process to instate Abhisit, but had objected so vehemently when used previously to instate Somchai!

There is blatant hypocrisy on display by both sides here. The stark difference for me remains that Abhisit has never won a general election, while Yingluck and the PTP have.

[sjjmmi]

Red Shirts start gathering outside parliament, collecting signatures seeking impeachment against Constitution Court judges, traffic paralyzed /MCOT

Any pic's

[Fookhaht]

Thailand will disappear in destruction due to the reds.

Yes, thanks to the yellows for getting the ball rolling earlier this week with their unlawful blocking of the parliamentary process.

Wait, didn't they get the ball rolling the last round of public disruption too? (Occupying Government House, occupying the airports, etc?)

As opposed to Ratchprasong occupation that was fully legal and peaceful of course!

Somehow already you forget the violence that broke out during the yellows' illegal actions, as well?

Something to be said "for" those who consistently start the agitation, taunting the opposition to step up to the plate. Granted all should back off, and let the democratic process (what's left of it) work.

[Ferangled]

Yunla, you simply turned Worawut's comments around, noting that red shirts were familiar with causing the same chaos he alluded to, Carra pointed out that the reds aren't the only ones capable of forming a mob and causing chaos, the yellows have considerable experience of this to.

I note that you got a response to your question but chose to ignore mine. Do you think the Dems will patiently wait for the next general elections?

Sorry but your answer of "they will have no choice but to step down" & "remains to be seen" was not an answer to my question. I know that when voted out they have to go out, and I know that the next election is in the future and remains to be seen. I was asking if they will surrender power easily and swiftly with grace and courtesy as is the diplomatic behaviour of statesmen for example Abhisit. You opinion on this as yet unprovided, as is Carra's who posted at me then didn't respond to my reply.

I will nonetheless answer your question, you will notice I am suggesting PTP are avoiding parliamentary debate and trying force bills through blindly, with utterly despicable lines from PTP's leader like "I haven't read the bills yet but I'm sure they are the best for everybody ....and you should all accept them". This behaviour of Yingluck and PTP as a whole is infact anathema to the democratic system of passing laws by egalitarian consensus, beckons to autocracy and seeks to maintain control by any means - except for the very means of democratic debate and consensus policymaking. If the PTP continue to abuse the system of government that they have been granted by the electorate, they are open to retribution by the social failsafes that protect that very system from abuse.

If PTP stop their undemocratic behaviour in parliament, stop blanking the Opposition, stop hiding away from transparent debate (especially Yingluck) and openly debate these bills which are the root problem here, I'm sure they will still be in office at the arrival of the next election. If the PTP continue to abuse and trample on the parliamentary process, they should be and maybe will be removed by the systems that are enshrined to protect that parliamentary process - the same as they would be in older more established democracies. I think that answers my views on where this is all going.

Again my apologies Yunla, I thought I had answered your question but understand that you don't accept my reply. I'll have to consult my crystal ball and try again. Here is my original reply again as you seem to have missed it amongst the anti-red rants...

I'm pretty sure that any party that lost a general election would have little choice but to step down, whether or not they would do so as eloquently as Abhisit remains to be seen... of course we're talking about something that's not scheduled until 2015 is it?

In summary of your response, as you seemed to have missed out any actual conclusion, you believe the Dems will not patiently wait for the next General election, as you expected PTP to do whilst Abhisit was in power?

I guess what's good for the goose isn't for the gander...

[rixalex]

I note you chose to completely ignore the fact that the other side had no qualms in using this very same process to instate Abhisit, but had objected so vehemently when used previously to instate Somchai!

By "objecting vehemently" do you mean taking the capital city hostage and threatening to burn it down if parliament wasn't immediately dissolved? Cos i don't recall them doing that. You must mean some other sort of "objecting vehemently".

There is blatant hypocrisy on display by both sides here. The stark difference for me remains that Abhisit has never won a general election, while Yingluck and the PTP have.

Yes, both sides have committed all sorts of wrongs, but this desperation held by red sympathisers for everyone to agree that the respective wrongs of both sides have been in exactly the same measure, is both silly and sad, and in contradiction to the facts.

[saltandpepper]

Thailand will disappear in destruction due to the reds.

Yes, thanks to the yellows for getting the ball rolling earlier this week with their unlawful blocking of the parliamentary process.

Wait, didn't they get the ball rolling the last round of public disruption too? (Occupying Government House, occupying the airports, etc?)

As opposed to Ratchprasong occupation that was fully legal and peaceful of course!

Somehow already you forget the violence that broke out during the yellows' illegal actions, as well?

Something to be said "for" those who consistently start the agitation, taunting the opposition to step up to the plate. Granted all should back off, and let the democratic process (what's left of it) work.

No, I don't forget. But I think that events that occurred in 2009 and 2010, and were the result of Red shirts actions, were way more serious.

And I am afraid that current situation will again show what their true intention are..

I just hope I am wrong.

Anyway, wherever it comes from, violence is NOT an answer

[Nickymaster]

Bunch of boneless puppets those reds. Or should I say their leaders because you cannot blame somebody for something they have no clue about....right? Or just bad luck to be so dumb.

[webfact]

RT @RichardBarrow: Red Shirts collecting 20,000 signatures to seek impeachment of judges of Constitution Court http://bit.ly/MaWZmB

[Crushdepth]

Thailand will disappear in destruction due to the reds.

Yes, thanks to the yellows for getting the ball rolling earlier this week with their unlawful blocking of the parliamentary process.

Wait, didn't they get the ball rolling the last round of public disruption too? (Occupying Government House, occupying the airports, etc?)

As opposed to Ratchprasong occupation that was fully legal and peaceful of course!

Somehow already you forget the violence that broke out during the yellows' illegal actions, as well?

Something to be said "for" those who consistently start the agitation, taunting the opposition to step up to the plate. Granted all should back off, and let the democratic process (what's left of it) work.

Yes I seem to remember the yellows had bombs thrown *at* them. The red shirt protests involved some bomb *throwing*, threatening people with machetes, automatic rifle fire and even the odd RPG launch. Do you seriously think the two are comparable? Jeez...

[MunterHunter]

Yes I seem to remember the yellows had bombs thrown *at* them. The red shirt protests involved some bomb *throwing*, threatening people with machetes, automatic rifle fire and even the odd RPG launch. Do you seriously think the two are comparable? Jeez...

Well in fairness we dont know who was throwing bombs around... we just know that during the Red insurrection the bombs were headed out of the red camp but in the Yellow occupation of Parliament the bombs were headed into the yellow camp...

[animatic]

Mob rule in the streets as the leverage to force through legislation for the Liege Lord's benefit.

Feudal capitalist controlling socialist led proletariat, using false hopes of a better life,

if they create enough violence to give dear leader his dreams of power.

Of course he is loving the power he holds over the mob too.

[carra]

No, I don't forget. But I think that events that occurred in 2009 and 2010, and were the result of Red shirts actions, were way more serious.

And I am afraid that current situation will again show what their true intention are..

I just hope I am wrong.

Anyway, wherever it comes from, violence is NOT an answer

well the seriousness depends on opinion. If I needed to catch a flight but was not bothered about shopping in central world, then my opinion would be that yellows caused more inconvenience and therefore their actions were worse, I am sure the airlines and the thousands of stranded people would feel the same, as would the people living and working near government house, or the people on sukhothai road where the car bomb exploded, or the police officers run over by yellow shirt cars, or the people having to clear the piss and shit from government house, or the police taken hostage at don meaung, or the radio and tv stations stormed, or the motorcycle taxi driver shot at near don meuang etc etc etc.

The levels of violence probably seem much worse with the reds but i guess having armed soldiers on the street randomly shooting at unarmed people as well as medics and photographers will give that impression.

The fact is both camps had armed men, both camps use violence for the their own ends and both are as bad as each other, I am sure the yellows would be happy to do what the reds did and vice versa because both sides are blinded by selfishness and stupidity.

The one big issue here right now is that thailand has a democratically elected government, not the army or army appointed, a government for the people that has a clear majority. If the dems do not like this then they need to do better at the next election, pure and simple. If the PTP think the actions of the army or the courts contravened any laws when they had power, or if the feel the CNS violated or coerced the courts it is their duty to correct that and that is what they are trying to do. Sure it reeks but the people gave them this power and it is this power they are using. The army are doing the sensible thing right now and keeping their noses out and one would hope it remains that way. Thaksin is coming back whether people like it or not, his 'crimes' will be shown as being politically motivated, and a part of me thinks that both abhisit and suthep will be glad of an amnesty in the coming months despite their claims to the contrary.

I must also remind you that there have been NO convictions for the burning of Centralworld as there was no evidence against the arrested men, if something smells fishy thats because it probably is fishy.

Edited June 7, 2012 by carra