No To America's Use Of U-Tapao: Thai Opinion

[noitom]

World has a long history of thieves/murderers that have made life miserable for millions of people:

Adolf Hitler

Emperor Hirohito

Various English Kings and Military that looted the world to build the British Empire or were kicked out trying like from China and America.

Benito Mussolini

Francisco Franco

Joseph Stalin

Pol Pot

Saddam Hussein

Osama bin Laden

Moammar Khaddafi

Kim Jong Ill

Mao Zedong

Idi Amin

King Louis

You have to maintain a balance of power, stand ready to stop them, die, or become their slaves.

And added to the list, how about what's going on in Syria? The world is currently traumatized by this as Russia continues to stand in the doorway of its Syrian ally.

[Soutpeel]

"Beware of Greeks bearing gifts."

dont think this will the case for a long while...they dont have any money to buy gifts to bear...

[kerryk]

Shackley, Bill Lair, me and Tony Poe, a well-known case officer, were invited back to Bangkok for a secret ceremony at Thai army headquarters. There, the Prime Minister and his deputy presented us with the Most Exalted Order of the White Elephant, Thailand's highest medal for farangs, as foreigners were politely called in that country, in honor of our "heroic defense of Phou Pha Thi" and other miscellaneous services for which the Thai government was suitably grateful.

The above is a quote from Richard Secord. A lot of debts are owed. Some guys have long memories. Some not. Oh well. I really think U-Tapao is a done deal. Of course I could be wrong. There is a guy who posts on Thai Visa who knows. Last I heard he was on a job in Belgium but maybe he will see this and tell us.

[zydeco]

What a rubbish editorial which is based almost entirely on the highly unlikely and improbable idea that in the future there will be a US - China conflict. I think its safe to say that neither nation is stupid enough to engage in that idea as any conflict would be result in loses for both the winner and loser that would be far greater than the benefits of victory.

If I may, let me provide some facts which support why a major US - China conflict will not happen.

The number one country that China exports to is the US.

China exports more to the US than the next 20 countries listed combined.

Over 60% of manufactured items sold in the US are Made in China.

China holds over $1,000,000,000. In US Treasury Notes.

Regardless of the political differences between the US and China, the US is the primary customer for China products.

Without the US, China's total economy would go into a tailspin to a deep and dark pit.

Also, without Chinese products, the people in the US would have to open new manufacturing plants and / or ramp up long closed production lines and pay 3 and 4 times what the Chinese products were selling for.

Not an ideal partnership.

But breaking up would not be a good thing for the US, China, or the rest of the world.

In 1914 Germany's leading trading partner was Britain, wasn't it?

[Soutpeel]

This is one reason we can get a retirement visa with just a letter from our consulate stating our income.

So how come many nationalities who had absolutely no involvement in the communist infiltration in Thailand are afforded the same thing then when it comes to retirement visa's ??

[EvilDrSomkid]

I hope the post was not news to you, and not off topic. The Chinese do not merely "claim" all that, they do "send a gunboat" as it were. Several in fact. There is a stand off right now at Scarborough Shoal.

The NASA climate study would significantly help the AirSea Battle concept that the US is developing now.

You should check out those links folium posted. foreignpolicy.com is quite good.

the-diplomat.com is another site which covers these matters well.

It is tiring to see posts falling into the traps of bashing one country or the other based on perceptions of "good guy" vs. "bad guy".

It is what it is. One can provide analysis of a matter and discuss it without having to make value judgements.

All the bashing is pointless.

I hope my reference to "Chinese imperialism" was sufficient to indicate that I was not adopting a good guy/bad guy standpoint. That would be absurd.

I am happy however to see you admit that this so-called NASA "climate study" has a military intent. It would be astoundingly absurd to imagine that an arm of the US government (NASA) would not be obliged to provide military information along with its other functions re climate etc.

Similarly with the links in the previous post (foreignpolicy.com etc.)...I was trying to be polite. But while they are interesting, before you rush to praise them, you need to consider their utterly compromised source.

Academics (as Noam Chomsky has well pointed out throughout his whole career) are, all too often, the policy mandarins who have promoted some of the murderous policies that have been pursued in our lifetime, especially in the Vietnam War era.

Sorry if all that's confusing.

You could call it imperialism, but that word is so negative and provocative. I would rather use force projection.

Admit? Did I deny it? It was quite clear from the outset that the NASA study will be used by the military. However, the study will also have peaceful purposes.

Although I have not read everything on FP, I dare say there some good analytical articles on Thailand. Search on their site for 'Bangkok Blues' and you will see what I mean. Any source has its pro's and con's. I try and read as much as I can from sources that seem credible. In the end they are opinions and therefore subjective. Just because some writers misinterpret events does not mean all the writers on FP are wrong. Would you agree?

I usually read The Diplomat and The Atlantic. Are you familiar with them?

Not confusing at all.

Edited June 10, 2012 by EvilDrSomkid

[folium]

Shackley, Bill Lair, me and Tony Poe, a well-known case officer, were invited back to Bangkok for a secret ceremony at Thai army headquarters. There, the Prime Minister and his deputy presented us with the Most Exalted Order of the White Elephant, Thailand's highest medal for farangs, as foreigners were politely called in that country, in honor of our "heroic defense of Phou Pha Thi" and other miscellaneous services for which the Thai government was suitably grateful.

The above is a quote from Richard Secord. A lot of debts are owed. Some guys have long memories. Some not. Oh well. I really think U-Tapao is a done deal. Of course I could be wrong. There is a guy who posts on Thai Visa who knows. Last I heard he was on a job in Belgium but maybe he will see this and tell us.

KerryK

Dying to here why RTN ownership of U-Tapao is so significant or is it just the opportunity to boost revenue?

[folium]

China holds over $1,000,000,000,000. In US Treasury Notes.

That is over 1 Trillion Dollars in US Treasury Notes.

Over 31 Trillion Baht!

So in effect...China actually owns part of the US ?...

No that would be equity holdings. This $1 trillion gets them a mountain of IOUs, just pieces of paper with a promise attached.

[dragons70]

Think the writer of this piece is being a little naive here...just say no

If the US wants to use UTP for what ever reason, they will get it, if it serves the US's interests...resistance is futile...as they will just do the same as they have done in other places...

"just say no".........."just say invade"..............."mission accomplished"...............

Mate, unless its made in jest, I think your post is a little "naive". To suggest that the US would "invade" Thailand to secure the strategic use of UTP is ludicrous. China and Thailand have

stronger ties than most realise, including the ancestry of the current Prime Minister and much of the Thai elite. Thailand has a long history of saying "no", which is largely why they have never

been colonised by Europeans. Besides, why would the US bother? Not alot of oil in the area.....

[Soutpeel]

Think the writer of this piece is being a little naive here...just say no

If the US wants to use UTP for what ever reason, they will get it, if it serves the US's interests...resistance is futile...as they will just do the same as they have done in other places...

"just say no".........."just say invade"..............."mission accomplished"...............

Mate, unless its made in jest, I think your post is a little "naive". To suggest that the US would "invade" Thailand to secure the strategic use of UTP is ludicrous. China and Thailand have

stronger ties than most realise, including the ancestry of the current Prime Minister and much of the Thai elite. Thailand has a long history of saying "no", which is largely why they have never

been colonised by Europeans. Besides, why would the US bother? Not alot of oil in the area.....

For the third and last time....which smilely would you like me to insert to indicate I was being ironic/sarcastic ?....are people on here really that dim...that they need a smiley to give them a visual indication of the tone of the post.....

Comments like the above I would expect from our colonial cousins, who are well know for their lack of being able to identify irony and sarcasm when put in front of them...but you do not appear to be one of our colonial cousins ? and possibly an Aussie ?...if so very disappointing mate, always had the opinon that Aussies generally have a very wicked and dry of sense of humour...

Further if you are a Brit...what can I say except say whats wrong with you ? you <deleted>....?

(note I added a smiley after the word <deleted>, therefore I am taking the micky, thought I should add this just to give you a visual clue so you understand)

Edited June 10, 2012 by Soutpeel

[kerryk]

This is one reason we can get a retirement visa with just a letter from our consulate stating our income.

So how come many nationalities who had absolutely no involvement in the communist infiltration in Thailand are afforded the same thing then when it comes to retirement visa's ??

Perhaps he means the Treaty of Amity advantages which are unique to Americans.

[Soutpeel]

This is one reason we can get a retirement visa with just a letter from our consulate stating our income.

So how come many nationalities who had absolutely no involvement in the communist infiltration in Thailand are afforded the same thing then when it comes to retirement visa's ??

Perhaps he means the Treaty of Amity advantages which are unique to Americans.

Quite possible..but he talks about retirement visa's....absolutely no reference to anything to do with retirement under the Amity treaty..this relates to business ownership...

[gand]

Does it mean more money for Thai politicians? Then it is a done deal.

[Soutpeel]

Does it mean more money for Thai politicians? Then it is a done deal.

Rumour has it that Thaksin senior has already gone into an agreement with some of the bigger operators in Vegas and when he gets back into Thailand he is going to open a Vietnam war themed casino at UTP....

[visionchaser45]

"Beware of Greeks bearing gifts."

dont think this will the case for a long while...they dont have any money to buy gifts to bear...

Right you are. I should have written, "Beware of Americans bearing gifts they borrowed from China."

[seminomadic]

Ok so you've made it clear you can't refute what Evil Dr said, that your agenda on here is being anti-American, and when confronted in a discussion on something you can't intelligently respond to, you then argue semantics to try to save face.

I am not Anti-American at all....some of my best friends are from the US and are good people...

I just call BS when I read BS thats all, the American friends I have are not narrow minded simplist folk who are of the belief all things American = Good and righteous and everyone/everywhere else = bad.

Its very intesting to note that some of our colonial cousins have no problems making comments about the British Empire raping and pillaging, but if simliar type comments are made about the Land "O" Free, persons making these comments are branded Anti-American and their immediate "execution" is called for...

This is very stange to me, as I was always under the impression the one of the founding "princples" of the US is freedom of speech, This appears to be the case as long as someone else or another country is being criticised, but if "Freedom of speech" is used against the US then all of sudden certain people dont like Freedom of speech anymore and want the comments suppressed...where I come from this is know as hypocrisy

I have absolutely not problem people slagging off the British Empire, British people etc, but if you want to hand it out..you better be prepared to take some back and dont start hiding behind calling people Anti-American, just because you cant debate factual points with any degree of intelligence

As regards any agenda...I have no agenda at all, someone comments, I respond to said comment...I am sorry I cant fuel you paranoid delusions, that someone who disagree's with your perfect vision of the US has to be Anti-American.

I'd like to know which post shows that I cop to a perfect vision of the US, anything remotely resembling paranoid delusions, or call for your execution.

Good of you to confirm via this quite frankly insane post that you're not here for actual debate, but for ranting melodramatically on points not related to what you've been called on (that US and Vietnamese relations are or are not tightening) twice already.

Edited June 11, 2012 by seminomadic

[rotary]

I hope they keep telling the USA no. It is not in Thailand's best interest to get the USA military in U-Tapao

[givenall]

British did the colonization themselves while US uses money and corrupt politician to do it for them

The result is the same

sent from-would like to know

[Bagwan]

I hope they keep telling the USA no. It is not in Thailand's best interest to get the USA military in U-Tapao

Or of the sex tourists to Pattaya. With a US contingent at U-Tapao it will send prices soaring.