webfact Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 TrueVisions' Euro 2012 fine kicks off Sirivish Toomgum The Nation BANGKOK: -- TrueVisions should waive one month's subscription fees for its two million subscribers to compensate them for not being able to view live Euro 2012 football matches, said the National Broadcasting and Telecommunications Commission's (NBTC) consumer protection subcommittee yesterday. The subcommittee will make the proposal to the watchdog's board today. The proposal was one of several measures drawn up by the subcommittee yesterday to compensate TrueVisions subscribers, who cannot view the live matches aired on channels 3, 5, and 9 via the TrueVisions network. According to the subcommittee, TrueVisions must also hurry action to enable subscribers to view the live matches. It added that the three free TV channels should air the matches in all signal-receiving platforms. Fine despite strong opposition In a related matter, the NBTC will press on to impose a fine on TrueVisions, despite strong opposition from the company yesterday. NBTC secretary-general Takorn Tantasit said yesterday the watchdog would today send the order to slap a daily fine of about Bt20,000, retroactive from June 8. He said that if TrueVisions disagreed with the order, the company could bring the case to the court. In a fax sent to the NBTC yesterday, TrueVisions complained that the watchdog's June 7 order to seek ways to allow its subscribers to view the Euro matches on channels 3, 5, and 9 was unlawful and unacceptable. TrueVisions also opposed the NBTC warning on Monday that if after 4.30pm yesterday it had failed to comply with the order, it would face the daily fine. The pay-TV operator insisted that it had not violated the 2010 Frequency Allocation Law and 2008 Broadcasting Act, and so the NBTC had no right to fine the company. Takorn said that the NBTC had not ordered the fine for a violation of the frequency or broadcasting law but according to Article 58 of the Law on Administrative Procedure of 1996. So far, TrueVisions has yet to reach an agreement with GMM Grammy, the Euro 2012 broadcast rights' holder, to allow TrueVisions subscribers to view the matches on the three free channels. GMM Grammy continues to insist this week that its priority in controlling broadcasts of the Euro 2012 is to prevent financial loss among its business partners and their customers. -- The Nation 2012-06-13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 How does True rebroadcasting free to air cause financial loss among business partners and customers? At the moment, the free to air channels are losing advertising exposure because a lot of people can't view their ads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsox44 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Does the NBTC know the "TRUE" meaning of a valid contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude007 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 a disgrace for the country and its law-makers. As always, the customers (subscribers) are the victims... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinLOS Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 At least a free month compensates people fairly (I don't think the fine is due, it's simple free market and they suck) as people get in line with what try spend. The previous suggestion of adding premium channels to platinum subscribers is full of holes.. What about those who already have the added packages. Those using a vacation break, etc.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zaphodbeeblebrox Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 As of this morning, True is still broadcasting a notice that it will not air the Euro 2012 matches and has offered subscribers a 1 month upgrade (ie, platinum accounts get some additional discovery, disney and HBO channels, gold accounts are upgraded to platinum). True thinks they have bargaining power in these negotiations, when they clearly don't. They certainly are in a position to pay for the broadcast rights as they more than make up for the cost of the broadcast rights by inserting ad time into the broadcasts. This is a classic fail. I saw the same thing happen with Time Warner Cable, who didn't want to pay for broadcast rights for the NFL channel (owned by NBC and which televises a weekly football game). They never resolved the dispute, and many TWC subscribers canceled their service as a result. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammieuk1 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Just get a vpn and watch bbc itv easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulward Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 If GMM and Thai terrestrial tv allow true visions to show the games they should stipulate that true should also show there advertising and not substitute their own. That way none of GMM's business partners suffer. In fact they get free ads to a further 2 million households. Whilst true get to show the games to their customers. Everyone is happy! PS I find that an old metal coat hanger in the back of the tv works exceptionally well ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 As of this morning, True is still broadcasting a notice that it will not air the Euro 2012 matches and has offered subscribers a 1 month upgrade (ie, platinum accounts get some additional discovery, disney and HBO channels, gold accounts are upgraded to platinum). True thinks they have bargaining power in these negotiations, when they clearly don't. They certainly are in a position to pay for the broadcast rights as they more than make up for the cost of the broadcast rights by inserting ad time into the broadcasts. This is a classic fail. I saw the same thing happen with Time Warner Cable, who didn't want to pay for broadcast rights for the NFL channel (owned by NBC and which televises a weekly football game). They never resolved the dispute, and many TWC subscribers canceled their service as a result. There's no bargaining required. They don't have the Euro rights, Grammy do. For whatever reason True didn't think paying whatever Grammy did was worth it. Grammy certainly have more spending power than True and I am pleased True are holding onto their reserves to pay for the EPL rights when they come up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tragickingdom Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 How does True rebroadcasting free to air cause financial loss among business partners and customers? At the moment, the free to air channels are losing advertising exposure because a lot of people can't view their ads. That is easy to explain: 1. the NTBC should not point it's finger to TRue but to the channels 3, 5 and 9 who entered into an agreement that discriminates against anyone rebroadcasting the signal. 2. True want to rebroadcast but Grammy holds the rights to Euro 2012. 3. if True would follow the NTBC's order, the NTBC must pick up the tab for the possible millions of dollars that Grammy will demand from True for broadcasting their program without their permission. The bottom-line is that their seem to be no rules that free to air is free for anyone. Free to air channels lease time to commercial partners who can demand in return that groups of viewers might be cut off. A absurd omission in the law. The NTBC has no say over Grammy as copyright owner. The solution that grammy proposed is absurd. They want True to offer Grammy's or HDTS boxes with a discount. If true would go along with that, they are going to need an army of engineers to solve the problems. 1. The plastic grammy setup box need the full signal so a second or a third box from True need to be disconnected. 2. People would phone to true to solve their problems and they would 3. compete with their paid services. Believe me, you would not want to be found death watching a Grammy football show. They have hired complete imbeciles to be funny. Fun means that they cater to with a mental age below 3 years. They cannot level out the ads. So one moment you have no sound, the next moment your are jumping in your chair because of the absurd high volume. And given the comment of the commentator during the match entire communities seem to lose their signal on a regular basis. I fully understand why true does not want to have anything to do with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reenatinnakor Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 As of this morning, True is still broadcasting a notice that it will not air the Euro 2012 matches and has offered subscribers a 1 month upgrade (ie, platinum accounts get some additional discovery, disney and HBO channels, gold accounts are upgraded to platinum). True thinks they have bargaining power in these negotiations, when they clearly don't. They certainly are in a position to pay for the broadcast rights as they more than make up for the cost of the broadcast rights by inserting ad time into the broadcasts. This is a classic fail. I saw the same thing happen with Time Warner Cable, who didn't want to pay for broadcast rights for the NFL channel (owned by NBC and which televises a weekly football game). They never resolved the dispute, and many TWC subscribers canceled their service as a result. We already have the Platinum package and as far as I am aware had all the channels already....and on 3 boxes so the whole family and kids can watch in their own room! So I have been paying 2900thb every month for 3 years now and now have to watch the Euro's on an old CRT set in the outside shed bitten by mosquitoes for 90 minutes! I don't see how anyone is at fault apart from Grammy? True would have already paid annual fees or some other costs to the owners of 3, 5, 7 and 9.....so they can re-broadcast anything thats shown on those channels. Why should they have to re-negotiate again with Grammy when all their agreements are with 3, 5, 7 and 9? I think True should switch off all their channels for those 90 minutes that they can't show the Euros. If people like me can't watch football....which is what I pay 2900 a month for....then no one should be able to watch anything!! That's the fairest way. And then the govt will really act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidermike007 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 The entire planet is laughing, as usual, at Thailand's lack of seriousness, in addressing it's problems. A fine of 20,000 baht per day, for a company this size, is like a gnat bite. Face, face, face. Nothing more. Let us say we did something. Silly, nonsensical, non-solutions to the problem. Around the world they discuss how not serious the Thai government is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 UPDATE: Urgent!! GMM presents UEFA letter at the press con, denying TrueVisions to rebroadcast the #Euro2012. via @Pat_ThaiPBS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 How does True rebroadcasting free to air cause financial loss among business partners and customers? At the moment, the free to air channels are losing advertising exposure because a lot of people can't view their ads. That is easy to explain: 1. the NTBC should not point it's finger to TRue but to the channels 3, 5 and 9 who entered into an agreement that discriminates against anyone rebroadcasting the signal. 2. True want to rebroadcast but Grammy holds the rights to Euro 2012. 3. if True would follow the NTBC's order, the NTBC must pick up the tab for the possible millions of dollars that Grammy will demand from True for broadcasting their program without their permission. The bottom-line is that their seem to be no rules that free to air is free for anyone. Free to air channels lease time to commercial partners who can demand in return that groups of viewers might be cut off. A absurd omission in the law. The NTBC has no say over Grammy as copyright owner. The solution that grammy proposed is absurd. They want True to offer Grammy's or HDTS boxes with a discount. If true would go along with that, they are going to need an army of engineers to solve the problems. 1. The plastic grammy setup box need the full signal so a second or a third box from True need to be disconnected. 2. People would phone to true to solve their problems and they would 3. compete with their paid services. Believe me, you would not want to be found death watching a Grammy football show. They have hired complete imbeciles to be funny. Fun means that they cater to with a mental age below 3 years. They cannot level out the ads. So one moment you have no sound, the next moment your are jumping in your chair because of the absurd high volume. And given the comment of the commentator during the match entire communities seem to lose their signal on a regular basis. I fully understand why true does not want to have anything to do with it. While I generally agree with what you're saying, it doesn't really answer the question. NOT rebroadcasting means that the free-to-air channels are losing out on potential revenue. But not accepting GMMz deal to not allow rebroadcasting would have meant a lot more loss of revenue because they wouldn't have got the rights to broadcast at all. "Free to air" IS free to air, but it is not free to rebroadcast. It's just a catch-22 for everyone, but I don't know why the government is getting involved in basic business negotiations. Grammy won the rights, on-sold it to the free-to-air channels with the restriction that it can't be rebroadcast. True thought that they would get it cheap by rebroadcasting the free-to-air channels, but they've lost out and now have egg on their face. The law is not complete, given that it forces True to rebroadcast free-to-air channels but allows the free-to-air channels to restrict what can be rebroadcast. That puts True over a barrel, because they are forced to pay what ever is being asked for otherwise they get fined (if you call 20,000 baht a day a fine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pianoman Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Like someone eles mentioned, we already have the Highest Package with all the options, but only on two TV's not three... What are they doing to compensate my household??? Nothing, Nada, Zilch..... Pianoman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revar Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Cannot get free to air channels on the uhf band in our village. ( not even with the large antenna on the roof. So no channel 3 and no euro 2000. Tried different antennas and pther vollagers have the same problem Sent from my GT-S6102 using Thaivisa Connect App Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasman2 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 If they have 2 million subscribers paying say an average of 1000 baht a month that over 50 mil US they are making a month, should be enough to pay for piddling euro 2012 - yet they refuse to give channels like BBC lifestyle to gold subscribers, these pedantic xxxxx deserve all they get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedNIvar Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Feel no sorrow for True. When you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. They have always been ripping people off especially foreigners. They messed the last world cup up by going cheap and not purchasing English commentary. They knew this but told everyone that if they upgrade to HD, they will get it in English. They are they most expensive in SEA when comparing the platinum package. I'm glad that Grammy is setting them straight. It's all about karma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captspectre Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Feel no sorrow for True. When you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. They have always been ripping people off especially foreigners. They messed the last world cup up by going cheap and not purchasing English commentary. They knew this but told everyone that if they upgrade to HD, they will get it in English. They are they most expensive in SEA when comparing the platinum package. I'm glad that Grammy is setting them straight. It's all about karma. totally agree! true/ubc have always taken advantage of foreigners just look at the price charged! in the US this company would not last a day! coimcast, direct TV AOL, Etc: all charge less then true for over 200 channels! but here it is take it or leave it! to many cartoon channels and not enough good news channels! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reenatinnakor Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/No-rebroadcasting-signal-for-TrueVisions-GMM-30184072.html Well that looks final then.....no Euro 2012 via the True box. So it's either watch it in bad quality on an old CRT set with Antenna or pay 1800 for the Gmm box. I'm not paying f.....g paying Gmm anything! They are the ones that clearly f...d it up. One months subscription from True would be nice. But hardly compensation for not being allowed to watch the "beautiful game" and the 2nd largest tournament on the planet. For those of you lucky b....ds with decent internet connection you can watch everything p2p online. For those of us in the countryside, we just have to suffer it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambodave Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Just get a vpn and watch bbc itv easy Excuse my ignorance but what is a VPN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payboy Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) TrueVisions should waive one month's subscription fees for its two million subscribers Considering an average monthly fee of 1,000 baht per subscriber that would be a 2 billion baht bill for Turd Visions. Sorry, not gonna happen. Edited June 13, 2012 by Payboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluestu Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Just get a vpn and watch bbc itv easy Excuse my ignorance but what is a VPN Google expatshield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reenatinnakor Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Just get a vpn and watch bbc itv easy Excuse my ignorance but what is a VPN Virtual Private Network. BBC iPlayer and ITV only work for UK residents. So you join a UK VPN provider that lets you login and gives you a UK IP address so it's just like you are accessing the internet from the UK. Costs about 5 quid a month. I use it all the time when have decent bandwidth in Japan, Hong Kong, Korea, US.....but obviously not in the Thai countryside where my download speeds are 100kb for 2600thb a month. If you live in Bangkok or Pattaya or the city where you get 6mb or more download you can also just go to www.myp2p.pe or www.wiziwig.tv and watch Euro on a live stream, no need to pay for anything. This is the 1st time I have had an issue with True....prob because I have been here 2 months now without flying out, so it's my own fault! But actually on True I have watched EPL obviously, but also French Open, the Crucible Snooker and even the Mayweather fight live a few weeks ago, something which you would definitely have to pay HBO for separately. I hope they don't f...k up the Olympics....although hopefully I would be in a more advanced country by then to watch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volk666 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Grammy paid 400 mil for Euro rights, that's about half of True's monthly revenue so it's not something that True can easily afford. Only about 500,000 of True's customers use their Platinum, Gold and Silver packages, how many of them would pay extra 800 baht this month to cover the cost of the rights? What else should True pay for this year? Olympics? Champions League? What about Bundesleague games shown on free TV? Should True buy rights to those, too? What about this line: "It added that the three free TV channels should air the matches in all signal-receiving platforms." Doesn't it mean that Grammy can't stop free TV channels from broadcasting via satellite? It's not only True, btw, anyone with a satellite dish is cut off from Euros on free TV channels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanas Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 This situation is the result of the unscrupulous greed of 2 companies and their respective management. The interests of the consumers are neglected and ignored by this 2 companies. As far as I am concerned: I did not buy the stupid box of GMM and I will kick TrueVisions out very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkk_mike Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 The issue is that a satellite footprint doesn't fit Thailand only. So if they rebroadcast the matches on the free TV channels unencrypted, they'll get sued by UEFA (let alone Grammy), for broadcasting the matches for free in Malaysia, Vietnam, Burma, etc. In theory, they could broadcast the free-to-air channels encrypted, but then they're not really free-to-air any more. Although the majority of Thai viewers would have a True box, so could decrypt True's encryption, the problem is that there are people who watch the free channels NOT using True's receivers, and they'd then be unable to receive the signal. (i.e. that would help only the True subscribers, and not everyone else that's having to watch the free Thai channels via satellite). (i.e. That's a commercial decision, and would be seen as such by the courts when Grammy sued them, NOT a public interest decision.) Essentially, True need to come to an agreement with Grammy if they're going to broadcast the matches encrypted so that their subscribers can receive them, or they simply can't show them. No matter what the NBTC says, they can't broadcast them free-to-air, as their fine from the NBTC is peanuts compared to what UEFA's lawyers would be after. Essentially Grammy bought the rights and has said to True, if you want them, you'll need to pay... (good for Grammy - they shouldn't be forced to give away the broadcast rights for nothing after all). True has shat all over their subscribers by not having sorted this out months ago. (even if they had simply had a Grammy channel on True that you'd have to subscribe to for the Euro 2012, with the money going to Grammy - that could have been arranged and would have let their subscribers watch...) As for the NBTC. Their fine means they don't seem to understand how copyright works (or alternatively don't understand satellite footprints and think that True's broadcasts somehow can't be picked up outside of Thailand's borders). It's a little worrying that a regulator is fining them when they're simply NOT breaking international law by rebroadcasting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Like someone eles mentioned, we already have the Highest Package with all the options, but only on two TV's not three... What are they doing to compensate my household??? Nothing, Nada, Zilch..... Pianoman I don't see why anyone needs compensating. If you want to watch the Euros you can do so. It's not True's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewsterbudgen Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 This situation is the result of the unscrupulous greed of 2 companies and their respective management. The interests of the consumers are neglected and ignored by this 2 companies. As far as I am concerned: I did not buy the stupid box of GMM and I will kick TrueVisions out very soon. The greed is on the part of UEFA not the broadcasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satanas Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 This situation is the result of the unscrupulous greed of 2 companies and their respective management. The interests of the consumers are neglected and ignored by this 2 companies. As far as I am concerned: I did not buy the stupid box of GMM and I will kick TrueVisions out very soon. The greed is on the part of UEFA not the broadcasters. I watch Euro 2012 on cable Astro Supersport. They broadcast the football in Englisch. They do not ask to buy an idiotic decoder, they do not ask to pay any fee. They do not cut of the signal. The problems are originating through GMM and TrueVisions. They are the greedy parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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