Blank Screens For TrueVisions Subscribers But Suspicion Lingers Over UEFA Call

[Jayman]

Yes, that's what's UEFA is saying, but it is plain stupid and doesn't make sense.

It's the same as saying everyone in Thailand is free to listen to a broadcast on the radio, but it is illegal if I call you on the phone within Thailand and let you listen to the free broadcast through the paid phone communication. Doesn't make sense at all.

The part you are missing is that TRUE is not giving the content for free. They are charging for it. So you are saying they should have the right to take content offered to the public for free and charge for it?

Even in the US during sporting events it says you cam't rebroadcast without written consent.

Also, what is free for personal use does not make it free for commercial use. Just look at the music industry and how the bars here have to pay to play music to their customers.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Jayman

[Hellhound66]

Yes, that's what's UEFA is saying, but it is plain stupid and doesn't make sense.

It's the same as saying everyone in Thailand is free to listen to a broadcast on the radio, but it is illegal if I call you on the phone within Thailand and let you listen to the free broadcast through the paid phone communication. Doesn't make sense at all.

The part you are missing is that TRUE is not giving the content for free. They are charging for it. So you are saying they should have the right to take content offered to the public for free and charge for it?

Even in the US during sporting events it says you cam't rebroadcast without written consent.

Also, what is free for personal use does not make it free for commercial use. Just look at the music industry and how the bars here have to pay to play music to their customers.

You are a tough nut :-) The FTA channels on True are a bonus for the subscriber's True do not pay for the content (it's the opposite I believe). It has come to pass that the quality of the FTA signal from True far exceeds an old fashioned antenna so yes a lot of Thais take the True subscription to watch better quality FTA. But in the business, True are charging us for all the channel content that they have to pay for HBO EPL etc. It's not that complicated.

[Jayman]

Yes, that's what's UEFA is saying, but it is plain stupid and doesn't make sense.

It's the same as saying everyone in Thailand is free to listen to a broadcast on the radio, but it is illegal if I call you on the phone within Thailand and let you listen to the free broadcast through the paid phone communication. Doesn't make sense at all.

The part you are missing is that TRUE is not giving the content for free. They are charging for it. So you are saying they should have the right to take content offered to the public for free and charge for it?

Even in the US during sporting events it says you cam't rebroadcast without written consent.

Also, what is free for personal use does not make it free for commercial use. Just look at the music industry and how the bars here have to pay to play music to their customers.

You are a tough nut :-) The FTA channels on True are a bonus for the subscriber's True do not pay for the content (it's the opposite I believe). It has come to pass that the quality of the FTA signal from True far exceeds an old fashioned antenna so yes a lot of Thais take the True subscription to watch better quality FTA. But in the business, True are charging us for all the channel content that they have to pay for HBO EPL etc. It's not that complicated.

I don't know if true pays for the content of those channels or not but stop calling them FREE. They are anything but FREE. Just because you can put up an antennae to view them doesn't make the content FREE. If so, how do you suppose the content is created if not for money.

As for thais wanting to pay for free channels... all I can do is repeat my earlier comments that you don't have to pay anyone provider to receive those channels from a sat in perfect quality. You do however have to pay TRUE for their version of those channels. TRUE encrypts them so that only paid customers can view them. The ones you can view for FREE are not part of TRUE. You can't receive them using TRUE's equipment.

They are many places upcountry selling dishes and a receiver for a one off fee (few thousand baht) and then you would have those channels for free (completely legally) via a sat feed. But stop acting like TRUE gives them for FREE as they don't and never have. So to compare something that is given for FREE to something that TRUE charges for is not at all a fair comparison. That is why they were not given the rights to rebroadcast this highly watched and highly sponsored sporting event. Had they have paid for thr rights, they would have them. If you think that TRUE can't afford lawyers to go after anyone that is breach of their contract then you are kidding yourself. TRUE doesn't have a case if they don't have legal rights to the games. If they do have legal rights to the games then lets see how the lawyers work it out.

Maybe this is easier to see the difference..

http://tcns.thaicom....s.asp?beam=t5ku look at all the channels marked encrypted, those are TRUE

http://tcns.thaicom.net/channels.asp now look at the channels here.. see how many say Free-To-Air. Those are what you can get for free without paying TRUE. You cannot get those using the TRUE dish/lnb as they are on a different frequency as the ones TRUE encrypts and sells you.

more free channels http://tcns.thaicom.net/channels.asp?beam=t5r and http://tcns.thaicom.net/channels.asp?beam=t5g

Edited June 14, 2012 by Jayman

[volk666]

Speaking of quality, football I get with a rooftop antenna comes in the proper 16:9 aspect while football on True's non-HD channels comes in 4:3 and gets stretched out, even the Champions League that is broadcast on "free" channels, as I remember.

I wouldn't judge the legality of the situation simply on the lack of action from True. As I said earlier, True needs to play nice with UEFA, had it been a purely domestic dispute they would have probably gone nuclear already. In fact at some point last week they said they'd broadcast the games anyway and deal with Grammy in court later but then NBTC stepped in, Grammy sent a letter to UEFA and so on.

[Hellhound66]

Yes, that's what's UEFA is saying, but it is plain stupid and doesn't make sense.

It's the same as saying everyone in Thailand is free to listen to a broadcast on the radio, but it is illegal if I call you on the phone within Thailand and let you listen to the free broadcast through the paid phone communication. Doesn't make sense at all.

The part you are missing is that TRUE is not giving the content for free. They are charging for it. So you are saying they should have the right to take content offered to the public for free and charge for it?

Even in the US during sporting events it says you cam't rebroadcast without written consent.

Also, what is free for personal use does not make it free for commercial use. Just look at the music industry and how the bars here have to pay to play music to their customers.

You are a tough nut :-) The FTA channels on True are a bonus for the subscriber's True do not pay for the content (it's the opposite I believe). It has come to pass that the quality of the FTA signal from True far exceeds an old fashioned antenna so yes a lot of Thais take the True subscription to watch better quality FTA. But in the business, True are charging us for all the channel content that they have to pay for HBO EPL etc. It's not that complicated.

I don't know if true pays for the content of those channels or not but stop calling them FREE. They are anything but FREE. Just because you can put up an antennae to view them doesn't make the content FREE. If so, how do you suppose the content is created if not for money.

As for thais wanting to pay for free channels... all I can do is repeat my earlier comments that you don't have to pay anyone provider to receive those channels from a sat in perfect quality. You do however have to pay TRUE for their version of those channels. TRUE encrypts them so that only paid customers can view them. The ones you can view for FREE are not part of TRUE. You can't receive them using TRUE's equipment.

They are many places upcountry selling dishes and a receiver for a one off fee (few thousand baht) and then you would have those channels for free (completely legally) via a sat feed. But stop acting like TRUE gives them for FREE as they don't and never have. So to compare something that is given for FREE to something that TRUE charges for is not at all a fair comparison. That is why they were not given the rights to rebroadcast this highly watched and highly sponsored sporting event. Had they have paid for thr rights, they would have them. If you think that TRUE can't afford lawyers to go after anyone that is breach of their contract then you are kidding yourself. TRUE doesn't have a case if they don't have legal rights to the games. If they do have legal rights to the games then lets see how the lawyers work it out.

They are FREE because advertising income pays for the content. That's how TV business works. Why do you think True is NOT allowed to have advertisements inserted during its programming -because it is a different model- subscription based.

You answered your own question there. Yes the Free channels are available on other boxes for a one off fee but the Thais want the EPL etc as well. So they choose TRUE for the paid for content and get the FTA channels as a bonus. Is it really that difficult?

You still don't get "pass through" either. There is a massive difference between Pass Through and buying the rights. If TRUE had bought the rights -the programming would have been aired on True Sports 1 and 5 etc. They may have done a deal with FTA channels but they certainly would not have tried to sell it on to a cable and satellite competitor -that is sheer madness (but it is what GMM tried to do because they are going to lose a huge chunk of change on the ridiculous price they paid for the rights).

As for the lawyers, you really really don't get it. The party at fault here is the NBTC because they let GMM ride roughshod over rules that have never been broken to date. So are True going to go after NBTC Hmm I think not -guess who approves their license to do business. And they are not going to go up against UEFA because of Champions League rights and future Euro rights that they will want to secure. And GMM are actually a business partner -GMM use the TRUE dishes to link their boxes too and sell the boxes out of 7-11 which as you know is Chareon Pokhpand the TRUE family business.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Hellhound66

[Jayman]

TRUE actually has many many new HD channels but they only offer them to their cable subscribers because they don't have anymore space on the SAT to carry the new HD channels. Maybe you guys calling the channels free should suggest to TRUE to drop those "free" channels that they don't sell anyways from the sat and now they can add the new HD channels that subscribers would actually pay for.

[Hellhound66]

Speaking of quality, football I get with a rooftop antenna comes in the proper 16:9 aspect while football on True's non-HD channels comes in 4:3 and gets stretched out, even the Champions League that is broadcast on "free" channels, as I remember.

I wouldn't judge the legality of the situation simply on the lack of action from True. As I said earlier, True needs to play nice with UEFA, had it been a purely domestic dispute they would have probably gone nuclear already. In fact at some point last week they said they'd broadcast the games anyway and deal with Grammy in court later but then NBTC stepped in, Grammy sent a letter to UEFA and so on.

Agree with you except that the FTA channels encrypted the signal, on GMM's order, passed through to TRUE so they could not air them even if they wanted to :-)

[manarak]

Yes, that's what's UEFA is saying, but it is plain stupid and doesn't make sense.

It's the same as saying everyone in Thailand is free to listen to a broadcast on the radio, but it is illegal if I call you on the phone within Thailand and let you listen to the free broadcast through the paid phone communication. Doesn't make sense at all.

The part you are missing is that TRUE is not giving the content for free. They are charging for it. So you are saying they should have the right to take content offered to the public for free and charge for it?

Even in the US during sporting events it says you cam't rebroadcast without written consent.

Also, what is free for personal use does not make it free for commercial use. Just look at the music industry and how the bars here have to pay to play music to their customers.

You are a tough nut :-) The FTA channels on True are a bonus for the subscriber's True do not pay for the content (it's the opposite I believe). It has come to pass that the quality of the FTA signal from True far exceeds an old fashioned antenna so yes a lot of Thais take the True subscription to watch better quality FTA. But in the business, True are charging us for all the channel content that they have to pay for HBO EPL etc. It's not that complicated.

I don't know if true pays for the content of those channels or not but stop calling them FREE. They are anything but FREE. Just because you can put up an antennae to view them doesn't make the content FREE. If so, how do you suppose the content is created if not for money.

As for thais wanting to pay for free channels... all I can do is repeat my earlier comments that you don't have to pay anyone provider to receive those channels from a sat in perfect quality. You do however have to pay TRUE for their version of those channels. TRUE encrypts them so that only paid customers can view them. The ones you can view for FREE are not part of TRUE. You can't receive them using TRUE's equipment.

They are many places upcountry selling dishes and a receiver for a one off fee (few thousand baht) and then you would have those channels for free (completely legally) via a sat feed. But stop acting like TRUE gives them for FREE as they don't and never have. So to compare something that is given for FREE to something that TRUE charges for is not at all a fair comparison. That is why they were not given the rights to rebroadcast this highly watched and highly sponsored sporting event. Had they have paid for thr rights, they would have them. If you think that TRUE can't afford lawyers to go after anyone that is breach of their contract then you are kidding yourself. TRUE doesn't have a case if they don't have legal rights to the games. If they do have legal rights to the games then lets see how the lawyers work it out.

Maybe this is easier to see the difference..

http://tcns.thaicom....s.asp?beam=t5ku look at all the channels marked encrypted, those are TRUE

http://tcns.thaicom.net/channels.asp now look at the channels here.. see how many say Free-To-Air. Those are what you can get for free without paying TRUE. You cannot get those using the TRUE dish/lnb as they are on a different frequency as the ones TRUE encrypts and sells you.

more free channels http://tcns.thaicom....ls.asp?beam=t5r and http://tcns.thaicom....ls.asp?beam=t5g

True doesn't sell these channels - they include them in their broadcasts so that their subscribers don't have to use 2 dishes or expensive transponder-switching equipment.

We can turn your own argument the other way: how would the broadcast be free if True customers have to spend $$$ to acquire additional equipment to receive it?

True's offer is: paid channels + rebroadcast of the free channels so that their customers can have all with one dish.

What is so difficult to understand?

Do you really think True successfully sells and makes customers subscribe & pay to only receive the free channels ?

Because this is what your (flawed) demonstration implies.

Edited June 14, 2012 by manarak

[Jayman]

They are FREE because advertising income pays for the content. That's how TV business works. Why do you think True is NOT allowed to have advertisements inserted during its programming -because it is a different model- subscription based.

Stop paying your TRUE bill and lets see how "free" those channels are now.

You answered your own question there. Yes the Free channels are available on other boxes for a one off fee but the Thais want the EPL etc as well. So they choose TRUE for the paid for content and get the FTA channels as a bonus. Is it really that difficult?

I guess it is that difficult if you expect to watch the games now isn't it.

[Jayman]

True doesn't sell these channels - they include them in their broadcasts so that their subscribers don't have to use 2 dishes or expensive transponder-switching equipment.

We can turn your own argument the other way: how would the broadcast be free if True customers have to spend $$$ to acquire additional equipment to receive it?

True's offer is: paid channels + rebroadcast of the free channels so that their customers can have all with one dish.

What is so difficult to understand?

Do you really think True successfully sells and makes customers subscribe & pay to only receive the free channels ?

Because this is what your (flawed) demonstration implies.

It's not so difficult for me to understand. They encrypt them so that makes them not free. If they are truly free as you propose then there would be no need for TRUE to encrypt those channels and then they would actually be Free-to-air. You would be able to receive them on your true dish and box without purchasing any special subscription nor extra equipment.

[manarak]

True doesn't sell these channels - they include them in their broadcasts so that their subscribers don't have to use 2 dishes or expensive transponder-switching equipment.

We can turn your own argument the other way: how would the broadcast be free if True customers have to spend $$$ to acquire additional equipment to receive it?

True's offer is: paid channels + rebroadcast of the free channels so that their customers can have all with one dish.

What is so difficult to understand?

Do you really think True successfully sells and makes customers subscribe & pay to only receive the free channels ?

Because this is what your (flawed) demonstration implies.

It's not so difficult for me to understand. They encrypt them so that makes them not free. If they are truly free as you propose then there would be no need for TRUE to encrypt those channels and then they would actually be Free-to-air. You would be able to receive them on your true dish and box without purchasing any special subscription nor extra equipment.

Is the True equipment able to receive non-encrypted broadcasts? I'd bet the answer is no.

[Jayman]

True doesn't sell these channels - they include them in their broadcasts so that their subscribers don't have to use 2 dishes or expensive transponder-switching equipment.

We can turn your own argument the other way: how would the broadcast be free if True customers have to spend $$$ to acquire additional equipment to receive it?

True's offer is: paid channels + rebroadcast of the free channels so that their customers can have all with one dish.

What is so difficult to understand?

Do you really think True successfully sells and makes customers subscribe & pay to only receive the free channels ?

Because this is what your (flawed) demonstration implies.

It's not so difficult for me to understand. They encrypt them so that makes them not free. If they are truly free as you propose then there would be no need for TRUE to encrypt those channels and then they would actually be Free-to-air. You would be able to receive them on your true dish and box without purchasing any special subscription nor extra equipment.

Is the True equipment able to receive non-encrypted broadcasts? I'd bet the answer is no.

Of course it is. Not all the TRUE channels are encrypted.

http://www.lyngsat.com/tvchannels/th/TNN-24.html

TNN-24 is part of TRUE package and is not encrypted. You will get it on your true equipment and if you stop paying the bill that channel will still be view able. It is Free-to-Air.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Jayman

[Hellhound66]

They are FREE because advertising income pays for the content. That's how TV business works. Why do you think True is NOT allowed to have advertisements inserted during its programming -because it is a different model- subscription based.

Stop paying your TRUE bill and lets see how "free" those channels are now.

You answered your own question there. Yes the Free channels are available on other boxes for a one off fee but the Thais want the EPL etc as well. So they choose TRUE for the paid for content and get the FTA channels as a bonus. Is it really that difficult?

I guess it is that difficult if you expect to watch the games now isn't it.

Watching on UK ITV and BBC not an issue here ;-)

[Hellhound66]

True doesn't sell these channels - they include them in their broadcasts so that their subscribers don't have to use 2 dishes or expensive transponder-switching equipment.

We can turn your own argument the other way: how would the broadcast be free if True customers have to spend $$$ to acquire additional equipment to receive it?

True's offer is: paid channels + rebroadcast of the free channels so that their customers can have all with one dish.

What is so difficult to understand?

Do you really think True successfully sells and makes customers subscribe & pay to only receive the free channels ?

Because this is what your (flawed) demonstration implies.

It's not so difficult for me to understand. They encrypt them so that makes them not free. If they are truly free as you propose then there would be no need for TRUE to encrypt those channels and then they would actually be Free-to-air. You would be able to receive them on your true dish and box without purchasing any special subscription nor extra equipment.

Is the True equipment able to receive non-encrypted broadcasts? I'd bet the answer is no.

Of course it is. Not all the TRUE channels are encrypted.

http://www.lyngsat.c.../th/TNN-24.html

TNN-24 is part of TRUE package and is not encrypted. You will get it on your true equipment and if you stop paying the bill that channel will still be view able. It is Free-to-Air.

Jayman you are exasperating. All True Visions is Encrypted. The card you stick in the box has a decryption key on it. Whether the individual channels are encrypted or not makes no difference. Try taking the card out and see what you get.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Hellhound66

[Jayman]

Jayman you are exasperating. All True Visions is Encrypted. The card you stick in the box has a decryption key on it. Whether the individual channels are encrypted or not makes no difference. Try taking the card out and see what you get.

Why don't you turn to TNN-24 and pull your card out and tell us if you have a picture still. I do.

Your logic makes no sense and is just wrong. You say it makes no difference if the channel is encrypted or not. Are you serious? If it's not encrypted then you don't need the decryption key. You have the key. You can open any door that is NOT locked without the key. For the doors that are locked, you will need the correct key to open it. When you call TRUE and ask them to upgrade your package (or downgrade) they don't send you a new card(key in your example) they just send your box what channels you are authorized to decrypt. That is sent via the sat signal and actually goes to EVERY box receiving it but they address it only to your box so only your box acts on this command. Of course, if the channel is not encrypted (like TNN-24) no card is required. Try it yourself and see mate.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Jayman

[thaihome]

Jayman you are exasperating. All True Visions is Encrypted. The card you stick in the box has a decryption key on it. Whether the individual channels are encrypted or not makes no difference. Try taking the card out and see what you get.

Why don't you turn to TNN-24 and pull your card out and tell us if you have a picture still. I do.

Your logic makes no sense and is just wrong. You say it makes no difference if the channel is encrypted or not. Are you serious? If it's not encrypted then you don't need the decryption key. You have the key. You can open any door that is NOT locked without the key. For the doors that are locked, you will need the correct key to open it. When you call TRUE and ask them to upgrade your package (or downgrade) they don't send you a new card(key in your example) they just send your box what channels you are authorized to decrypt. That is sent via the sat signal and actually goes to EVERY box receiving it but they address it only to your box so only your box acts on this command. Of course, if the channel is not encrypted (like TNN-24) no card is required. Try it yourself and see mate.

The fact that True encrypts the free over the air channels is irrelevant. You are missing the point (intentionally I suspect).

True receives no revenue from the advertisers that pay to have their commercials shown on the free over the air channels. True includes those channels in their packages as a convenience for their subscribers.

Why is Grammy not stopping the unencrypted satellite signals? Why are they not stopping all the other satellite companies from showing the matches? Many of those companies charge a monthly subscription fee for packages that include the Thai channels. It cannot be that Grammy is stopping True only because its signal is encrypted.

They are targeting True, without a legal basis, and potrayed in such a way to make it look like it is True's fault.

I have editied my post as I found out that Grammy is stopping all satellite reception, encryped or not. This makes Jayman's argument even weaker.

A very good PR campaign so far, but the recent statements from the DSI show it might backfire.

TH

DSI may get involved in dispute over Euro matches

Prapan Jindalerdudomdee,

Piyanuch Thamnukasetchai

The Nation June 15, 2012 1:00 am

Criminal legal action and state consumer-protection mechanisms could play roles in the dispute between GMM Grammy and TrueVisions over broadcasts of the Euro 2012 matches, with PM's Office Minister Woravat Aua-pinyakul threatening to get the Department of Special Investigation involved as he pushed to end the dispute.

Speaking yesterday after a special session of the House committee on tele-communications, Woravat said testimony would continue and that he aimed to end the dispute today.

"I’ve reached a conclusion over the dispute after listening to what was told to the panel, so GMM Grammy should review its stance, because under [Office of the Consumer Protection Board] regulations and actions, imprisonment and fines are involved," said Woravat, who oversees the OCPB"

TH

Edited June 15, 2012 by thaihome

[brewsterbudgen]

Isn't it about time everone caught on to this overpriced True monopoly.

I have cancelled and have asked everyone I know to do the same. Vote with your feet and maybe they will listen. Cancel now plaese

Why would I want to do that? I enjoy True's English language channels and couldn't do without the superb EPL coverage.

[Hellhound66]

Jayman you are exasperating. All True Visions is Encrypted. The card you stick in the box has a decryption key on it. Whether the individual channels are encrypted or not makes no difference. Try taking the card out and see what you get.

Why don't you turn to TNN-24 and pull your card out and tell us if you have a picture still. I do. Your logic makes no sense and is just wrong. You say it makes no difference if the channel is encrypted or not. Are you serious? If it's not encrypted then you don't need the decryption key. You have the key. You can open any door that is NOT locked without the key. For the doors that are locked, you will need the correct key to open it. When you call TRUE and ask them to upgrade your package (or downgrade) they don't send you a new card(key in your example) they just send your box what channels you are authorized to decrypt. That is sent via the sat signal and actually goes to EVERY box receiving it but they address it only to your box so only your box acts on this command. Of course, if the channel is not encrypted (like TNN-24) no card is required. Try it yourself and see mate.

Jayman you are starting to make this more complicated than it should be. People don't need to know this stuff but here you go. True's entire signal is encrypted that means ALL of its content with the exception of channels that are free-to- air satellite broadcasts. TNN-24 is one of these satellite free to air broadcasts which is left unencrypted so that it can be picked up by multiple platforms. Tan Network would be another one. Why are we even talking about this stuff it has very little relevance to the issue at hand. True most likely receive the "pass through" signals from the FTA channels by fiber optic cable anyway.

[Jayman]

Jayman you are exasperating. All True Visions is Encrypted. The card you stick in the box has a decryption key on it. Whether the individual channels are encrypted or not makes no difference. Try taking the card out and see what you get.

Why don't you turn to TNN-24 and pull your card out and tell us if you have a picture still. I do. Your logic makes no sense and is just wrong. You say it makes no difference if the channel is encrypted or not. Are you serious? If it's not encrypted then you don't need the decryption key. You have the key. You can open any door that is NOT locked without the key. For the doors that are locked, you will need the correct key to open it. When you call TRUE and ask them to upgrade your package (or downgrade) they don't send you a new card(key in your example) they just send your box what channels you are authorized to decrypt. That is sent via the sat signal and actually goes to EVERY box receiving it but they address it only to your box so only your box acts on this command. Of course, if the channel is not encrypted (like TNN-24) no card is required. Try it yourself and see mate.

Jayman you are starting to make this more complicated than it should be. People don't need to know this stuff but here you go. True's entire signal is encrypted that means ALL of its content with the exception of channels that are free-to- air satellite broadcasts. TNN-24 is one of these satellite free to air broadcasts which is left unencrypted so that it can be picked up by multiple platforms. Tan Network would be another one. Why are we even talking about this stuff it has very little relevance to the issue at hand. True most likely receive the "pass through" signals from the FTA channels by fiber optic cable anyway.

You are the one saying that all channels are encrypted. Now you admit they are not all encrypted. I'll leave this thread to you guys now. I'm not a lawyer. I haven't read any of the agreements. I am not a TRUE paid subscriber. I don't watch football. I have nothing more to say on this matter.

[Hellhound66]

Jayman you are exasperating. All True Visions is Encrypted. The card you stick in the box has a decryption key on it. Whether the individual channels are encrypted or not makes no difference. Try taking the card out and see what you get.

Why don't you turn to TNN-24 and pull your card out and tell us if you have a picture still. I do. Your logic makes no sense and is just wrong. You say it makes no difference if the channel is encrypted or not. Are you serious? If it's not encrypted then you don't need the decryption key. You have the key. You can open any door that is NOT locked without the key. For the doors that are locked, you will need the correct key to open it. When you call TRUE and ask them to upgrade your package (or downgrade) they don't send you a new card(key in your example) they just send your box what channels you are authorized to decrypt. That is sent via the sat signal and actually goes to EVERY box receiving it but they address it only to your box so only your box acts on this command. Of course, if the channel is not encrypted (like TNN-24) no card is required. Try it yourself and see mate.

Jayman you are starting to make this more complicated than it should be. People don't need to know this stuff but here you go. True's entire signal is encrypted that means ALL of its content with the exception of channels that are free-to- air satellite broadcasts. TNN-24 is one of these satellite free to air broadcasts which is left unencrypted so that it can be picked up by multiple platforms. Tan Network would be another one. Why are we even talking about this stuff it has very little relevance to the issue at hand. True most likely receive the "pass through" signals from the FTA channels by fiber optic cable anyway.

You are the one saying that all channels are encrypted. Now you admit they are not all encrypted. I'll leave this thread to you guys now. I'm not a lawyer. I haven't read any of the agreements. I am not a TRUE paid subscriber. I don't watch football. I have nothing more to say on this matter.

Sorry Jayman I had assumed you had at least a rudimentary understanding of how this all works. How did you take the card out of the box to test if you are not a subscriber?? Your not using a DreamBox are you ;-) Hey have a nice day and enjoy the ensuing melee as it evolves

[Jayman]

You are the one saying that all channels are encrypted. Now you admit they are not all encrypted. I'll leave this thread to you guys now. I'm not a lawyer. I haven't read any of the agreements. I am not a TRUE paid subscriber. I don't watch football. I have nothing more to say on this matter.

Sorry Jayman I had assumed you had at least a rudimentary understanding of how this all works. How did you take the card out of the box to test if you are not a subscriber?? Your not using a DreamBox are you ;-) Hey have a nice day and enjoy the ensuing melee as it evolves

I am not using a dreambox. I have more than a basic understanding of how this works. I took the card out of a neighbors receiver to verify the channel (tnn-24) still shows with no card in. I also verified on all the sat listings sights that that channel is NOT encrypted. I can see the raw signals at my house and have no card and can analyse the signal to see what encryption is being used and there is no encryption on that channel.

An you know what they say about assumptions.....

[volk666]

Perhaps FTA channels become PayTV on True in the same way people watching Channel 9 news in a pub need to buy a drink first.

Yes, you need to be a paying customer to watch "free" channels via your True dish and True box, but that doesn't mean you have to pay to watch them, you pay for something else.