Canadian Sisters Died Of 'Food Poisoning' In Thailand Hotel

[transam]

Having never been to Phi Phi or even to a full moon party, my understanding is that everyone apparently drinks out of buckets? Is that so? I have seen video clips with 1/2 bottles of Vodka or whiskey standing in a bucket with some mixers, and thats how you buy it and stick ice in, empty the contents in the bucket, get a straw and you are away. When I have seen the vids, I have not seen 'branded' drinks. No Smirnoff, etc etc just labels more akin to 'Dr Smiths, brain wangler'. My question is that I would have thought that there was a big market in making illegal booze on Phi Phi and the likes, and of course you only have to get your mix and method a little wrong and you don't make nice sweet spirits, you make something similar to meths that burns with a dark orange flame.

Not having had this stuff but I guess with ice and 2 cans of mixer it tastes as equally disgusting as any other bucket of booze. The fact is it is incredibly dangerous though, and will kill and will easily blind. The issue behind this theory though is like the food poisoning, in that if someone were going to make a 'bad batch' then more than the two girls would have been affected. Any ideas, or thoughts from those with experience of Phi Phi /full moon parties.

My thoughts were that fatal stuff like this would have affected others.

[ttelise]

RE: speculation and the family comments by some

I guess thus resonates with me as I have daughters aged 8 months, 15 and 16 years old. I cannot imagine the grief if losing 2 at same time over something like this. It us insulting and adding insult to injury for BiB to protect local criminals rather than make a true effort to vindicate their deaths and advise the family appropriately. The family deserves the truth and I would want thecdeaths to at least mean something like saving other young women from the same fate.

[MEL1]

“There was a lot of vomit in the room, and both bodies showed similar signs [of trauma]. They had skin lesions and it seemed that they had bled from the gums. Also, their fingernails and toenails were blue."

Sounds like rat poison--warfarin, coumadin, etc--which causes bleeding, vomiting, bruising. Doesn't take much to kill.

(Activated charcoal is first line of defense against most food, etc poisonings. Every traveler should have a packet of activated charcoal capsules in their kit and take them at first sign of feeling unwell--don't wait till vomiting etc starts).

As was pointed out by other posters on other threads of Phi Phi victims and Chiang Mai victims, isn't it strange these victims are, like most of the others, young Western women.

Looks like this serial killer has struck again.

Every traveler should have a packet of activated charcoal capsules in their kit and take them at first sign of feeling unwell--don't wait till vomiting etc starts).

Looks like this serial killer has struck again.

What?

Oh! I'm going to Thailand, so I must buy a packet of activated charcoal capsules, what say ye chaps?

<deleted>!

Activated charcoal is THE number one protocol for most poisonings in EVERY emergency room worldwide.

Activated charcoal could have saved their lives if they had taken it at FIRST sign of feeling unwell.

Yes, easy to say now. I'm not disagreeing with the medicals, I am saying how naieve of you to think anybody planning a holiday is going to discuss bringing charcoal with them. If that was the case, everybody would be overloaded with pharmacy bags that they wouldn't even get a pair of pants in thier luggage! Maybe everybody should bring crutches too, in case they break a leg?

-mel.

[Priceless]

A family lose their 2 daughter at the same time, in a tragic way, but we still have the thai apologist that gonna swear that thailand is safer in anyway than any occident country... Indeed for them Business is more important

Just a reminder to these fool: There are more murder in thailand alone than in all west and central european country ALL TOGETHER.

Yes you read it well: more homicide in thailand than in 25 european country all together!

The number of deaths from homicide in EU25 was 4 743 in 2005,

EU25 comprised Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands,

Portugal, Spain, Sweden, and the United Kingdom.Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Slovak Republic,

and Slovenia.

source and you have around 500 million people in these 25 europeans country and less than 5000 homicide.

while in thailand alone the number of homicide is between 5400 to 6000...

But some cynical people will come and remind us business is business.

Another comparison (which does not require mental arithmetic) is the homicide rate (homicides per 100,000 people) in different countries. Here are the rates for two countries in 2008:

Thailand: 5.897

United States of America: 5.220

(Source: http://data.un.org/Data.aspx?d=UNODC&f=tableCode%3a1 )

To me the diference is not that dramatic, in particular since we are comparing a supposedly developed country with one in the "third world".

/ Priceless

[guyinthailand]

Yes, easy to say now. I'm not disagreeing with the medicals, I am saying how naieve of you to think anybody planning a holiday is going to discuss bringing charcoal with them. If that was the case, everybody would be overloaded with pharmacy bags that they wouldn't even get a pair of pants in thier luggage! Maybe everybody should bring crutches too, in case they break a leg?

-mel.

I'm not naive. People who travel without activated charcoal are naive. And you don't need to be "overloaded with pharmacy bags"--just a handful of activated charcoal--or know to step out to any Thai pharmacy and purchase some.

This is precisely why I'm talking about it, so that people will learn.

[guyinthailand]

Maybe everybody should bring crutches too, in case they break a leg?

-mel.

Breaking a leg is not a common occurance. Food poisoning is very, very common. Be prepared for the common, not the uncommon.

By the way, feeling 'malaise' and 'unwell'--without vomiting and diarrhea--are the hallmark signs of food poisoning. Most people poisoned with food do not even have vomiting and diarrha.

Hence: take some activated charcoal at FIRST sign of feeling unwell.

[kriswillems]

I don't know if it's appropriate to say, but I think it's about time that family members of those that died now and 3 years ago get support from their governments to ask Thailand for an investigation by an international team.

I wonder how many more people have to die on Ko Phi Phi in similar circumstances.

Ko Phi Phi is a very small island, the number of people that unexpectedly died there, in very similar circumstances, can not be statically explained - this can't just be bad luck.

[transam]

I don't know if it's appropriate to say, but I think it's about time that family members of those that died now and 3 years ago get support from their governments to ask Thailand for an investigation by an international team.

I wonder how many more people have to die on Ko Phi Phi in similar circumstances.

Ko Phi Phi is a very small island, the number of people that unexpectedly died there, in very similar circumstances, can not be statically explained - this can't just be bad luck.

Nobody does their job or wants bad publicity on their patch. Under the carpet if pos.

[dingdang]

perhaps, if the first incidents with the americans and the swedish girls had been investigated properly, the two canadians would not had have to die now... and if it is again covered up, then someone else will have to die - in another two years from now on?

[MEL1]

Maybe everybody should bring crutches too, in case they break a leg?

-mel.

Breaking a leg is not a common occurance. Food poisoning is very, very common. Be prepared for the common, not the uncommon.

By the way, feeling 'malaise' and 'unwell'--without vomiting and diarrhea--are the hallmark signs of food poisoning. Most people poisoned with food do not even have vomiting and diarrha.

Hence: take some activated charcoal at FIRST sign of feeling unwell.

How long have you been here, really?

Breaking a leg on an island is a lot more common than food poisoning, so I request a little more maturity please.

Forget the charcoal and the crutches for a moment, and look at the facts.

Phi Phi is a small island, but has a huge amount of daily and weekly turn over in farang customers.

Very very few, if any reported, get food poisoning.

As for two young ladies, in the same room, passing away at exactly the same time, without one of them being able to walk to a door or call for help, or pick up the phone, or raise some attention if the other was so so ill...... think about that please. It is nigh unreal.

It's happened in the past, and it's happened currently, and will happen again.

The police were the first there of course, and ratified food poisoning exactly as they did in previous times - at the same ruddy venue.

Was it the same police officer....?? Did you check that out>??

Does he have a vested interest in the hotel??

Do his colleagues have a vested interest in young foreign girls....??

Are they able to cover up with a food poisoning?? Poisoning occuring first, of course.

Have a think about your 'rat poison' theory, as the BIB in Phi Phi are lower than rats!!!

-mel.

[dingdang]

http://jillstonge.blogspot.com/2009/05/latest-phi-phi-poisoning-kills-two.html

[sportsman69]

The solution to this puzzle is very simple. The families / Canadian government must DEMAND the bodies be flown back to Canada where a full unbiased autopsy can be conducted, and the results can be believed. This would have the benefit of casting off any shadow of doubt about what happened. If Thailand refuses to release the bodies, or cremates them forcibly , then I leave you to draw your own conclusions.....

I agree entirely. Unfortunately but flying the bodies back to Canada and even if the cause of death is established beyond doubt, only solves part of the problem. What are the repercussions for the place where it happened. Palm guest house, Phi Phi, Thailand ???

The right thing according to normal crime scene protocol should have happened the moment the maid opened the door.

As I see it the maid has naturally reported this scene she witnessed and reported the not so good news to the ' resort ' owner. He / she in all good faith has reported it to the local Sergeant Plod who was disturbed from his pastime of watching Thai soaps on the telly. He makes a call to the local " Phi Phi Hospital "( can anyone give me an update on this facility, is it now up to world standard or still a one room slaughter house as I remember it) who rouse a couple of orderlies ( oxymoron ) who grab a hand trolley and a bit of kit which will be of absolutely no use to the poor, now 12 hr. + deceased victims, the only witnesses to what actually happened. The bodies are thus removed via hand cart to " hospital ", where after a fair amount of discussion, it is conformed they are in fact deceased. A scheduled ferry to the Krabi Hospital because it is in the same province the " accident " not to the superior facilities of Hospitals in Phuket ( possibly another oxymoron. ) Or were they transported sloshing around in the bilge of a speed boat. For both questions probably not, as there was no surviving member of their group to pay the bill as was the boyfriend of Jill Onge who was ripped of for the speed boat fare after a similar occurrence on Phi Phi. I believe his story is on face book the link which appeared on this thread or one similar.

Sgt. Plod realising that the whole scene is a bit beyond his capabilities and the fact the bodies have been removed, washes his hands in the bathroom, destroying possible evidence, announces " move along, nothing to see here " closes the door and goes back to his telly. Plod washing his hands is of no consequence as the owners wish to clean up the room from it's obvious sorid state for the next pair of unsuspecting holiday makers who have a confirmed booking. All worthwhile evidence gone forever.

Whatever follows on from now will only be a true testament to the incompetence and or unconcerned attitude of the Thai Authorities. as my Thai wife said today, they just don't care.

I would appreciate if the relatives and friends of the poor girls read this post please accept that no disrespect is meant by me, it simply is my way of expressing how I feel from my own personal experiences of a similar nature and the fact of living 22 years in toyland.

I agree with a previous poster, that at least and if not more countries, Canada should impose a travel ban or at least a severe travel warning until a satisfactory explanation given to satisfy an impartial organisation such as the WHO.

Edited June 17, 2012 by sportsman69

[GentlemanJim]

Maybe everybody should bring crutches too, in case they break a leg?

-mel.

Breaking a leg is not a common occurance. Food poisoning is very, very common. Be prepared for the common, not the uncommon.

By the way, feeling 'malaise' and 'unwell'--without vomiting and diarrhea--are the hallmark signs of food poisoning. Most people poisoned with food do not even have vomiting and diarrha.

Hence: take some activated charcoal at FIRST sign of feeling unwell.

How long have you been here, really?

Breaking a leg on an island is a lot more common than food poisoning, so I request a little more maturity please.

Forget the charcoal and the crutches for a moment, and look at the facts.

Phi Phi is a small island, but has a huge amount of daily and weekly turn over in farang customers.

Very very few, if any reported, get food poisoning.

As for two young ladies, in the same room, passing away at exactly the same time, without one of them being able to walk to a door or call for help, or pick up the phone, or raise some attention if the other was so so ill...... think about that please. It is nigh unreal.

It's happened in the past, and it's happened currently, and will happen again.

The police were the first there of course, and ratified food poisoning exactly as they did in previous times - at the same ruddy venue.

Was it the same police officer....?? Did you check that out>??

Does he have a vested interest in the hotel??

Do his colleagues have a vested interest in young foreign girls....??

Are they able to cover up with a food poisoning?? Poisoning occuring first, of course.

Have a think about your 'rat poison' theory, as the BIB in Phi Phi are lower than rats!!!

-mel.

Guy's

you both have good ideas, don't start beating each other up. The important thing is to brain storm as many potential scenario's as possible and then test them to destruction. I am so bothered by the deaths of these girls, I would gladly take a week off and go to Phi Phi and try and find the answers, but of course would have absolutely zero right to any information or co-operation. I think 48 hours of dedicated questioning and foot slogging around would get answers, a toxicology report would seal it. I am not confident however that anyone engaged in such research would make it back to the mainland!

[guyinthailand]

Breaking a leg on an island is a lot more common than food poisoning

hahahahahahahahah

[ttelise]

Maybe everybody should bring crutches too, in case they break a leg?

-mel.

Breaking a leg is not a common occurance. Food poisoning is very, very common. Be prepared for the common, not the uncommon.

By the way, feeling 'malaise' and 'unwell'--without vomiting and diarrhea--are the hallmark signs of food poisoning. Most people poisoned with food do not even have vomiting and diarrha.

Hence: take some activated charcoal at FIRST sign of feeling unwell.

How long have you been here, really?

Breaking a leg on an island is a lot more common than food poisoning, so I request a little more maturity please.

Forget the charcoal and the crutches for a moment, and look at the facts.

Phi Phi is a small island, but has a huge amount of daily and weekly turn over in farang customers.

Very very few, if any reported, get food poisoning.

As for two young ladies, in the same room, passing away at exactly the same time, without one of them being able to walk to a door or call for help, or pick up the phone, or raise some attention if the other was so so ill...... think about that please. It is nigh unreal.

It's happened in the past, and it's happened currently, and will happen again.

The police were the first there of course, and ratified food poisoning exactly as they did in previous times - at the same ruddy venue.

Was it the same police officer....?? Did you check that out>??

Does he have a vested interest in the hotel??

Do his colleagues have a vested interest in young foreign girls....??

Are they able to cover up with a food poisoning?? Poisoning occuring first, of course.

Have a think about your 'rat poison' theory, as the BIB in Phi Phi are lower than rats!!!

-mel.

Guy's

you both have good ideas, don't start beating each other up. The important thing is to brain storm as many potential scenario's as possible and then test them to destruction. I am so bothered by the deaths of these girls, I would gladly take a week off and go to Phi Phi and try and find the answers, but of course would have absolutely zero right to any information or co-operation. I think 48 hours of dedicated questioning and foot slogging around would get answers, a toxicology report would seal it. I am not confident however that anyone engaged in such research would make it back to the mainland!

Yep, you may just contract food poisining or become suicidal if going there and asking the right questions.

[guyinthailand]

Breaking a leg on an island is a lot more common than food poisoning

Very very few, if any reported, get food poisoning.

Ridiculous--food poisoning is infinitely more common than breaking a leg.

Plus, no one 'reports' food poisoning unless it is very serious, which most cases aren't.

[MEL1]

Maybe everybody should bring crutches too, in case they break a leg?

-mel.

Breaking a leg is not a common occurance. Food poisoning is very, very common. Be prepared for the common, not the uncommon.

By the way, feeling 'malaise' and 'unwell'--without vomiting and diarrhea--are the hallmark signs of food poisoning. Most people poisoned with food do not even have vomiting and diarrha.

Hence: take some activated charcoal at FIRST sign of feeling unwell.

How long have you been here, really?

Breaking a leg on an island is a lot more common than food poisoning, so I request a little more maturity please.

Forget the charcoal and the crutches for a moment, and look at the facts.

Phi Phi is a small island, but has a huge amount of daily and weekly turn over in farang customers.

Very very few, if any reported, get food poisoning.

As for two young ladies, in the same room, passing away at exactly the same time, without one of them being able to walk to a door or call for help, or pick up the phone, or raise some attention if the other was so so ill...... think about that please. It is nigh unreal.

It's happened in the past, and it's happened currently, and will happen again.

The police were the first there of course, and ratified food poisoning exactly as they did in previous times - at the same ruddy venue.

Was it the same police officer....?? Did you check that out>??

Does he have a vested interest in the hotel??

Do his colleagues have a vested interest in young foreign girls....??

Are they able to cover up with a food poisoning?? Poisoning occuring first, of course.

Have a think about your 'rat poison' theory, as the BIB in Phi Phi are lower than rats!!!

-mel.

Guy's

you both have good ideas, don't start beating each other up. The important thing is to brain storm as many potential scenario's as possible and then test them to destruction. I am so bothered by the deaths of these girls, I would gladly take a week off and go to Phi Phi and try and find the answers, but of course would have absolutely zero right to any information or co-operation. I think 48 hours of dedicated questioning and foot slogging around would get answers, a toxicology report would seal it. I am not confident however that anyone engaged in such research would make it back to the mainland!

I am totally disdained, and moved too, by the death of these young ladies. It stinks.

I would also take week off, and I would have no job to come back to in BKK. However, I would, like you, probably come back with nothing new to report, if I also made it out alive.

That in itself is an indication to people who don't live here of the depths of cover up.

I leave it at that, sadly.

-mel.

[dingdang]

a german, who died in patong with same symptoms, had "gone for a few drinks"... so maybe its really the methanol? it would show all the symptoms described...

Edited June 17, 2012 by dingdang

[dingdang]

some two years ago there was a methanol poisoning of german tourists in turkey, not sure, two or so died, other remained nerves damages (blindness...)...

The methanol was in bottled drinks, which they bought at the hotel bar...

not all bottles were poisoned but the supplier would deliberately mix it in randomly...

the case in patang (above) occured in the same week as the deaths of the american and the swedish girl on phi phi...

Edited June 17, 2012 by dingdang

[ttelise]

some two years ago there was a methanol poisoning of german tourists in turkey, not sure, two or so died, other remained nerves damages (blindness...)...

The methanol was in bottled drinks, which they bought at the hotel bar...

not all bottles were poisoned but the supplier would deliberately mix it in randomly...

Not sure about methanol theory, but still a crime andcahoukd be treated as such, especially if that tainted drink was intentionally and only given to these two young girls.

As stated before, Thai officials simply need to do complete pathology/toxicology to Ryle out or find out. Rather than Thai cop just saying food poisoning, they could easily state test results confirm or reveal X.

[MEL1]

a german, who died in patong with same symptoms, had "gone for a few drinks"... so maybe its really the methanol? it would show all the symptoms described...

http://www.thaivisa....evere-vomiting/

Na. The girls vomited - they didn't shit the place up.

-mel.

[MEL1]

some two years ago there was a methanol poisoning of german tourists in turkey, not sure, two or so died, other remained nerves damages (blindness...)...

The methanol was in bottled drinks, which they bought at the hotel bar...

not all bottles were poisoned but the supplier would deliberately mix it in randomly...

Not sure about methanol theory, but still a crime andcahoukd be treated as such, especially if that tainted drink was intentionally and only given to these two young girls.

As stated before, Thai officials simply need to do complete pathology/toxicology to Ryle out or find out. Rather than Thai cop just saying food poisoning, they could easily state test results confirm or reveal X.

Do you really believe Thai authorities are going to pay the expense of an autopsy?

Do you really believe nothing has been interfered with, re the bodies ot the room? The maid will have already been ordered to bleach the place ready for the next visitors/victims of future.

There won't be a pathos/toxy report made, and I doubt there is anybody qualified locally, within 200Km in either direction to perform one!!!

-MEL.

[Johpa]

Here is a link to a US government web site that shows that the symptoms of methanol poisoning match up to the symptoms evidenced by these two young women. A real tradgedy

Edited June 17, 2012 by Johpa

[guyinthailand]

so maybe its really the methanol? it would show all the symptoms described...

No, methanol poisoning does not cause bleeding of the gums and bruising.

Rat poison does.

[ttelise]

some two years ago there was a methanol poisoning of german tourists in turkey, not sure, two or so died, other remained nerves damages (blindness...)...

The methanol was in bottled drinks, which they bought at the hotel bar...

not all bottles were poisoned but the supplier would deliberately mix it in randomly...

Not sure about methanol theory, but still a crime andcahoukd be treated as such, especially if that tainted drink was intentionally and only given to these two young girls.

As stated before, Thai officials simply need to do complete pathology/toxicology to Ryle out or find out. Rather than Thai cop just saying food poisoning, they could easily state test results confirm or reveal X.

Do you really believe Thai authorities are going to pay the expense of an autopsy?

Do you really believe nothing has been interfered with, re the bodies ot the room? The maid will have already been ordered to bleach the place ready for the next visitors/victims of future.

There won't be a pathos/toxy report made, and I doubt there is anybody qualified locally, within 200Km in either direction to perform one!!!

-MEL.

Thanks for info. I totally get it. Therein lies the problems and why murders roam free and gain more courage to murder again. Failure to perform toxicology and bacteria cultures (which are cheap) to determine how two young girls died says a whole lot about Thailand and it's officials.

[guyinthailand]

Here is a link to a US government web site that shows that the symptoms of methanol poisoning match up to the symptoms evidenced by these two young women. A real tradgedy

The link you supplied does not list bleeding of the gums and bruising as symptoms of methanol poisoning, which these two women had.

Rat poison is the likely culprit here.

[MEL1]

some two years ago there was a methanol poisoning of german tourists in turkey, not sure, two or so died, other remained nerves damages (blindness...)...

The methanol was in bottled drinks, which they bought at the hotel bar...

not all bottles were poisoned but the supplier would deliberately mix it in randomly...

Not sure about methanol theory, but still a crime andcahoukd be treated as such, especially if that tainted drink was intentionally and only given to these two young girls.

As stated before, Thai officials simply need to do complete pathology/toxicology to Ryle out or find out. Rather than Thai cop just saying food poisoning, they could easily state test results confirm or reveal X.

Can nobody see that the Thai cops were the first there, and reported food posioning? Normally medics are first on scene!

The This cops said there was no evidence of a struggle...... why would they say that - don't you see rehtorical inhibitions there?

There is no mention yet of sexual assault - but if the bodies are not dealt with correctly, nobody will ever know what happened there.

Cops have guns....... wouldn't you, well I wouldn't, but young ladies I mean, drink what is forced down your neck with no force but a gun against your head?

If this is a decent hotel, where is the camera footage of room door, entry and exit?

I never stay in a hotel, resort, room of any kind that doesn't have cameras. Then again, I believe I know where I go and speak in a Thai way that I would never be threatened...... and that's an unfortunate circumstance that meets with tourists - they just don't know.

I'm being rather antagonistic, I know. But this is far from food poisoning, and nor is it close to accidental death!

-mel.

[ttelise]

Okay, time to get back to life in Father's day. My 8 month old daughter just fell asleep on me and I feel so fortunate.

Stuff like this really gets me. It not only hits home, but I have spent 17 years representing hospitals, doctors, nursing homes and working for Court of Criminal Appeals and Supreme Court. I have spent so much of my professional life investigating causes of death and defending medical professionals in death cases.

Unexplained deaths are so rare and usually cause of death can be determined even when body is in very advanced states of decomposition.

Thai official conduct unequivocally demonstrates they don't want to know what happened or they know and are covering it up.

[dingdang]

the american women, which died in 2009 did NOT drink any alcohol that night, but the americans as well as the norwegian girls noticed a strong chemical smell in the room (the americans and the girls stayed in room 4 and 5)...

Ryan, the american survivor, states:

Although Jill and Julie mysteriously died on May 3, 2009, air samples were not collected by the Office of Disease and Prevention until June 13, 2009, more than FIVE weeks later. The results of the air tests from rooms 2, 4 & 5 came back normal however room 6 showed results of extremely toxic levels of toluene, pyridine, methylchoride, and acetalene, which we understand to be lethal poisons. What caused room 6 to have such deadly levels of poisons in the air and where is it located in relation to rooms 4 and 5?

http://jillstonge.bl...0&max-results=2

about the norwegian autopsy

<link to forbidden site removed>

and also important info:

the owner of the laleena guesthouse, khun rat, stayed that fateful night with her family even closer to the wastewater canal than the guests...

Edited June 18, 2012 by metisdead

[MEL1]

Here is a link to a US government web site that shows that the symptoms of methanol poisoning match up to the symptoms evidenced by these two young women. A real tradgedy

The link you supplied does not list bleeding of the gums and bruising as symptoms of methanol poisoning, which these two women had.

Rat poison is the likely culprit here.

And also anti-freeze is very difficult and expensive to obtain in LOS. Nobody puts anti-freeze in a car in a country that never drops below 9C. -

Ink jet thinners and the rest? This stuff is expensive. The substances to get methanol from are too too expensive for a Thai to adopt to - assuming he isn't/they aren't rich. However, I wonder if the photocopier works at the police station.....

Maybe the killer is an old farang! 555+ 555+

-mel.