Offshore Savings

[AnnyLing]

Correct, a pedantic terminology correction for a forum such as this but technically correct neverthless. But wait, is that it, is that your only argument you can/want to make, disappointing.

A debtor issues, amongst a variety of debt, also bonds which are marketed or sold *once* by one or more banks. After that the bonds are available at exchanges, OTC, or from *marketmakers*.

Nobody says *Toyota has sold me a Camry* or *Honda has sold me an Accord* when buying one of these cars second hand from a dealer or private owner although the cars were *issued* by Toyota or Honda . If pointing that out is called a technicality, pedantic or smartassed shows ignorance at its best and refusal to widen the personal investment horizon!

[chiang mai]

The dude's got issues that wont help this thread, I'm out.

[AnnyLing]

Typical male behaviour when defeated.

[Darrel]

Typical male behaviour when defeated.

[SantiSuk]

Typical male behaviour when defeated.

Typical male comment from someone who gets darwn into childish arguments on public forums

[personchester]

How about premium bonds. Can a british non uk resident purchase

Yes, they can, no problem.

[AnnyLing]

Typical male behaviour when defeated.

Typical male comment from someone who gets darwn into childish arguments on public forums

Indeed a typical comment from a male whos first name is Anny.

[chiang mai]

lloyds fixed bonds onshore uk are i repeat are not available to non residents,what are available is lloyds tsb offshore fixed bonds,how do i now i have just spoken to them 5pm thai time.4% fixed for 3years paid gross.

Perhaps you could check and see what bonds HSBC UK is offering and whether they are suitable ratewise, HSBC UK will allow you (me at least) to go down the R105 route which means you can hold the bonds as a non-resident. If you do decide to go that route it's worth taking out multiple bonds rather than one large single one, that way if you find you need funds in an emergency you can encash one early and pay a penalty on only a small part of your holdings rather than on all of it.

[AnnyLing]

lloyds fixed bonds onshore uk are i repeat are not available to non residents,what are available is lloyds tsb offshore fixed bonds,how do i now i have just spoken to them 5pm thai time.4% fixed for 3years paid gross.

Perhaps you could check and see what bonds HSBC UK is offering and whether they are suitable ratewise, HSBC UK will allow you (me at least) to go down the R105 route which means you can hold the bonds as a non-resident. If you do decide to go that route it's worth taking out multiple bonds rather than one large single one, that way if you find you need funds in an emergency you can encash one early and pay a penalty on only a small part of your holdings rather than on all of it.

I can only shake my head when i hear *encash a bond early and pay a penalty*. You people have not the slightest idea about bonds.

Bonds are not *encashed*. They are traded freely without any penalty no matter what maturity. All you pay are trading fees, usually 0.25%, which your bank charges.

[chiang mai]

lloyds fixed bonds onshore uk are i repeat are not available to non residents,what are available is lloyds tsb offshore fixed bonds,how do i now i have just spoken to them 5pm thai time.4% fixed for 3years paid gross.

Perhaps you could check and see what bonds HSBC UK is offering and whether they are suitable ratewise, HSBC UK will allow you (me at least) to go down the R105 route which means you can hold the bonds as a non-resident. If you do decide to go that route it's worth taking out multiple bonds rather than one large single one, that way if you find you need funds in an emergency you can encash one early and pay a penalty on only a small part of your holdings rather than on all of it.

I can only shake my head when i hear *encash a bond early and pay a penalty*. You people have not the slightest idea about bonds.

Bonds are not *encashed*. They are traded freely without any penalty no matter what maturity. All you pay are trading fees, usually 0.25%, which your bank charges.

I'll give this just one shot and see where it takes us, clearly you're full of your own ego and knowledge on these things but sadly you seem not to be able to communicate very well, never mind we'll cut you some small ammount of slack this once!

Consumers in the UK are accustomed to buying products and the purchase of banking product such as a fixed rate or fixed term Bond (up to the financial institution how they chose to badge these things when they sell them) doesn't require the same knowledge or terminology to be used as if one were say a trader on the floor of the London stock exchange. So our humble consumer buys his/her bonds that have been sold (not issued) to him/her by his/her bank or building society.

Most of the these financial products have different terms and conditions, in many cases the consumer is locked into his/her purchase for the specified duration, in other case the consumer is able to exit the agreement early but at a cost, typically this will be 90 days interest plus a fee, we consumers call this encashment because that's what the banks and building societies call it also hence we're all speaking the same language. OK so far?

Now, whether or not the consumer products I've described above are the same "bonds" that are traded on the exchange is unclear, what is clear that it is a form of debt that is packaged and marketed to the UK consumer market, not to other brokers, banks, building societies or traders. So yes there is a penalty to the consumer if they are encashed early because the packaging of the product requires that to be so. And yes, the consumer products/bonds I've described above are packaged and sold in different and often restricted territories because the packaging and the marketing rules require it to be so, some are sold on shore only, some are sold offshore only, some are sold in both places but with different rates and rules attached. Are you getting the picture yet that you and this thread are talking virtually about totally different things!

OK, so here endeth the lecture, despite your rudeness I've taken the time to try to explain things to you, reciprocate a little by stopping the insults and the abusive comments and we may all just get along, and don't refer to us as "you people" because that's a highly racist term that I dislike.

[AnnyLing]

I am very grateful having learned that in the United Kingdom certain packaged debt are consumer products and are called bonds although they are not bonds and are only marketed to the UK consumer market. I also promise not to use any racist remarks like *people* when I post in Thaivisa. Last not least i promise not to argue with people folks in future who use building societies to invest.

note to myself: Lloyds TSB is not a bank! It is a building society which discriminates offshore residents by not *selling* its *onshore bonds* to them.

The 180 bonds of Lloyds which are traded at the London Stock Exchange, available to any investor globally, are mere hallucinations. The link to the 19 pages of these bonds is a fake.

http://www.londonsto...oyds TSB&page=1

[chiang mai]

I am very grateful having learned that in the United Kingdom certain packaged debt are consumer products and are called bonds although they are not bonds and are only marketed to the UK consumer market. I also promise not to use any racist remarks like *people* when I post in Thaivisa. Last not least i promise not to argue with people folks in future who use building societies to invest.

note to myself: Lloyds TSB is not a bank! It is a building society which discriminates offshore residents by not *selling* its *onshore bonds* to them.

The 180 bonds of Lloyds which are traded at the London Stock Exchange, available to any investor globally, are mere hallucinations. The link to the 19 pages of these bonds is a fake.

http://www.londonsto...oyds TSB&page=1

It starts well but your inclination towards sarcasm becomes overpowering after a while so you'll forgive me for scoring it a lowly 3 out of 10, neverthless it's a big improvement over the 0 out of 10 scored previously, well done, you're improving.

Let's deal with the protocol first, the derogatory term is, "you people" not just, "people", using the expression, "you people" can get you locked up in some quarters and whilst this is unlikely in somewhere such as Singapore, it's entirely possible in the US, as you are well aware.

And now onto discrimination by UK banks: of course they descriminate against non-resident citizens, as any ex-pat on this board will no doubt confirm, if a UK passport holder wants to open an account/buy a product from an onshore financial institution they had best have a UK address else it wont be allowed - if that passport holder happens to live in Thailand or Singapore, forget it. The UK governement does help a little bit in this respect by allowing a system known as R105 which is optional on the part of the banks/BS's and is currently only accepted by five banks, some of the time!

Which leads us to bonds: as a UK passport holder I would find it difficult and expensive to buy any of the Lloyds bonds shown on your LSE list, firstly I would need to engage a UK broker and that would be very expensive. I could use an Independant Financial Advisor in the UK (FSA approved) to help me find a broker and make an introduction but the IFA would charge me a substantial fee for doing so.

Doubtless I would be refered to the Bank who would try to sell me the bonds as a packaged product or to a brokerage house who would try to sell me the bonds as one of their packaged products, either way the potential profitability of the product would soon evaporate as I paid fees to someone else (this is the way financial services works in the UK).

No doubt you as a passport holder of this region, have access to brokerage services here that are cost aeffective, not a luxury that non-regional passport holders have hence you are probably able to "dabble" cost effectively. We on the other hand have to make do with our limited access to onshore but mostly offshore products that we know as bonds (which really aren't but let's not quibble). Big sigh, life's so unfair sometimes, but what can be said!

[AnnyLing]

okay, lets do it step by step but not according to priorities.

And now onto discrimination by UK banks: of course they descriminate against non-resident citizens, as any ex-pat on this board will no doubt confirm, if a UK passport holder wants to open an account/buy a product from an onshore financial institution they had best have a UK address else it wont be allowed - if that passport holder happens to live in Thailand or Singapore, forget it.

why would a UK citizen, living in Thailand or Singapore or anywhere on this globe outside the UK, invest *onshore* with a UK *onshore* bank that slaps limitations on him or discriminates? because he is a masochist?

[AnnyLing]

Let's deal with the protocol first, the derogatory term is, "you people" not just, "people", using the expression, "you people" can get you locked up in some quarters and whilst this is unlikely in somewhere such as Singapore, it's entirely possible in the US, as you are well aware.

i am neither aware nor do i believe that "you people" is considered a racist remark anywhere where English is spoken.

[fredob43]

I am very grateful having learned that in the United Kingdom certain packaged debt are consumer products and are called bonds although they are not bonds and are only marketed to the UK consumer market. I also promise not to use any racist remarks like *people* when I post in Thaivisa. Last not least i promise not to argue with people folks in future who use building societies to invest.

note to myself: Lloyds TSB is not a bank! It is a building society which discriminates offshore residents by not *selling* its *onshore bonds* to them.

The 180 bonds of Lloyds which are traded at the London Stock Exchange, available to any investor globally, are mere hallucinations. The link to the 19 pages of these bonds is a fake.

http://www.londonsto...oyds TSB&page=1

I'm English and live in Thailand with NO English address so by that I assume that Lloyds wont sell/issue me a bond well this must be a new thing as last October they sold me some to-wit a two year bond and they sent all the paper work here to my Thai address. So did Nat West bank, I could have also got them from Barclay's. Then again maybe it's because I'm handsom.

[meatboy]

Let's deal with the protocol first, the derogatory term is, "you people" not just, "people", using the expression, "you people" can get you locked up in some quarters and whilst this is unlikely in somewhere such as Singapore, it's entirely possible in the US, as you are well aware.

i am neither aware nor do i believe that "you people" is considered a racist remark anywhere where English is spoken.

i started this topic for some advice,not to read what is being posted by certain members,so come on and cut it out and act in a civil manner,if you cant do that i will ask the mods.to close the topic.

[AnnyLing]

Which leads us to bonds: as a UK passport holder I would find it difficult and expensive to buy any of the Lloyds bonds shown on your LSE list, firstly I would need to engage a UK broker and that would be very expensive. I could use an Independant Financial Advisor in the UK (FSA approved) to help me find a broker and make an introduction but the IFA would charge me a substantial fee for doing so.

You don't need a broker, you don't need a financial advisor and you don't need an introduction to buy any asset at London Stock Exchange and of course you don't have to pay a substantial fee to anybody except the trading fee your bank charges.

All you need is to instruct your bank *buy asset identification number xyz123* None of the assets traded at LSE carry restrictions onshore or offshore. They are available to any UK passport holder.

[AnnyLing]

Let's deal with the protocol first, the derogatory term is, "you people" not just, "people", using the expression, "you people" can get you locked up in some quarters and whilst this is unlikely in somewhere such as Singapore, it's entirely possible in the US, as you are well aware.

i am neither aware nor do i believe that "you people" is considered a racist remark anywhere where English is spoken.

i started this topic for some advice,not to read what is being posted by certain members,so come on and cut it out and act in a civil manner,if you cant do that i will ask the mods.to close the topic.

You don't seem to look for advice. You are sticking to wrong assumptions. If you'd really want advice you'd read my postings.

[AnnyLing]

I am very grateful having learned that in the United Kingdom certain packaged debt are consumer products and are called bonds although they are not bonds and are only marketed to the UK consumer market. I also promise not to use any racist remarks like *people* when I post in Thaivisa. Last not least i promise not to argue with people folks in future who use building societies to invest.

note to myself: Lloyds TSB is not a bank! It is a building society which discriminates offshore residents by not *selling* its *onshore bonds* to them.

The 180 bonds of Lloyds which are traded at the London Stock Exchange, available to any investor globally, are mere hallucinations. The link to the 19 pages of these bonds is a fake.

http://www.londonsto...oyds TSB&page=1

I'm English and live in Thailand with NO English address so by that I assume that Lloyds wont sell/issue me a bond well this must be a new thing as last October they sold me some to-wit a two year bond and they sent all the paper work here to my Thai address. So did Nat West bank, I could have also got them from Barclay's. Then again maybe it's because I'm handsom.

*handsome* must be the criteria

[fredob43]

Let's deal with the protocol first, the derogatory term is, "you people" not just, "people", using the expression, "you people" can get you locked up in some quarters and whilst this is unlikely in somewhere such as Singapore, it's entirely possible in the US, as you are well aware.

i am neither aware nor do i believe that "you people" is considered a racist remark anywhere where English is spoken.

I agree with you I also dont think it racist but at best it's very Derogatory.

[AnnyLing]

No doubt you as a passport holder of this region, have access to brokerage services here that are cost aeffective, not a luxury that non-regional passport holders have hence you are probably able to "dabble" cost effectively. We on the other hand have to make do with our limited access to onshore but mostly offshore products that we know as bonds (which really aren't but let's not quibble). Big sigh, life's so unfair sometimes, but what can be said!

What part of *no need for brokerage services* to buy any asset from any stock exchange is you want me to explain again? Eighteen years of marriage to a stubborn western husband has taught me patience.

[chiang mai]

The OP has asked that the dialogue focus on his original question so I'll restrict my remarks accordingly:

The OP is asking about onshore/offshore bonds where as AL is refering to an LSE list of bonds, the two are not the same. The typical "bonds" that most UK consumers are familiar with are mostly interest rate swap products that are packaged and marketed within the UK and IOM/CI, we know them commonly as fixed rate or fixed term bonds. AL refers to debt instruments sold on the LSE, not the same thing at all.

The above can be bought by UK citizens overseas provided the issuing bank allows R105 and will treat the applicant as non-resident, I have four myself from HSBC UK. I know of no circumstances where an overseas resident has been able to purchase similar products from Building Societies or other financial institutions apart from the big five UK banks, I don't believe that's possible.

Many thanks for the explanation (finally) of how to purchase (real) Bonds from the LSE using a UK bank.

[chiang mai]

okay, lets do it step by step but not according to priorities.

And now onto discrimination by UK banks: of course they descriminate against non-resident citizens, as any ex-pat on this board will no doubt confirm, if a UK passport holder wants to open an account/buy a product from an onshore financial institution they had best have a UK address else it wont be allowed - if that passport holder happens to live in Thailand or Singapore, forget it.

why would a UK citizen, living in Thailand or Singapore or anywhere on this globe outside the UK, invest *onshore* with a UK *onshore* bank that slaps limitations on him or discriminates? because he is a masochist?

Because UK Financial Services insures the account holders balance up to GBP 85K, plus "home turf" banking is percieved as being a safe haven to many Brits.

[meatboy]

just to put things straight what i call fixed bonds are actually fixed term deposits,a lump sum deposited for normally 1to 5years why in the uk they are called bonds. i also had the same product called a guaranteed reserve. anyway its safer than investing in a few bar girls in patts.

[chiang mai]

just to put things straight what i call fixed bonds are actually fixed term deposits,a lump sum deposited for normally 1to 5years why in the uk they are called bonds. i also had the same product called a guaranteed reserve. anyway its safer than investing in a few bar girls in patts.

I think most people in this thread understood that, the controversy arose when the "bonds" you describe are compared against the debt instruments listed on the LSE that AL talk about. But once again and I'm not trying to be purist or pedantic, the 1 to 5 year fixed term deposits "we" are discussing are not truly bank bonds. There's no real downside to this other than they are one of the lowest order of things to be considered in the event a bank goes to the wall, but given that deposit protection/insurance exists this is not an issue that should concern you.

[AnnyLing]

just to put things straight what i call fixed bonds are actually fixed term deposits,a lump sum deposited for normally 1to 5years why in the uk they are called bonds. i also had the same product called a guaranteed reserve. anyway its safer than investing in a few bar girls in patts.

in the uk they are called bonds

UK lingo for foreigners: some *fixed deposits* are called *bonds*, *fish&chips* is called *food* and *ale* is called *beer*.

right?

[AnnyLing]

I think most people in this thread understood that

Terribly sorry! I was not aware that the OP addressed exclusively Brits. Will be more careful in future

[chiang mai]

I'll bet you wont be!

[Naam]

apart from the fact that both "warring parties" (UK vs. Singapore) :~) have based, in my[not so] humble view, their learned opinions on assumptions here's a bond from Lloyds TSB which is riskier than the "UK... ahemm... cough... cough.... onshore bond" but the reward is high. bond is available in GBP, EUR and AUD:

Lloyds TSB 21 VRN (XTR)

Euro Medium-Term Notes:Lloyds TSB Bank PLC:2011-16.12.21

Variable Rate from 16.12.2016 onward (5Y Gilt plus 675)

Series EMTN4609

Senior Subordinated

Lower Tier 2

Cumulative

ISIN: XS0717735400

NSIN: CH: 14534996

Common: 071773540

DE: A1GYDD

US: G4S15PP55

Industry: Banks

Distribution: Periodical payment

CFI code: DTVXFB

Nominal: EUR

Outstanding shares: 1'146'784'000 EUR (16.12.11)

Min. denomination: EUR 50'000 (Increment: 1'000)

Coupon: 11.875 %

Coupon type: Fixed Interest

Coupon frequency: 1 p.a.

Next coupon date: 16.12.2012

Callable by issuer: Yes

Next call: 16.12.2016

Callable by client: No

Next repay: 100

Debtor: Lloyds TSB

Maturity: 16.12.2021

Issue amount: 1'146'784'000

Issue date: 16.12.2011

Issue price: 99.97 %

Instrument status: Issued

Pricing: clean

Last price: 110.65 (06.07.2012)

Current yield: 10.732%

disclaimer: although i hold substantial amounts of this bond in various portfolios i handle, i do not recommend any purchase by those investors who do not differentiate between fixed deposits and bonds