CAT Telecom To Dismantle Its Entire CDMA EV-DO Network

[bobl]

As this system is probably working in the 5GHz band what would a "directional antenna" look like?

That's highly speculative, there's nothing in the gp's post to suggest it's running on the 5GHz band. In any case, it might look like this

Or this

[stoutfella]

As this system is probably working in the 5GHz band what would a "directional antenna" look like?

That's highly speculative, there's nothing in the gp's post to suggest it's running on the 5GHz band. In any case, it might look like this

Or this

Congratulations, you're right it might look like those and my assumption that the TOT network will be in the 5GHz band is based on the information I have from CAT on the system they are about to install for me which is in the 5GHz band, or so they tell me.

[Totster]

As this system is probably working in the 5GHz band what would a "directional antenna" look like?

That's highly speculative, there's nothing in the gp's post to suggest it's running on the 5GHz band. In any case, it might look like this

Or this

Congratulations, you're right it might look like those and my assumption that the TOT network will be in the 5GHz band is based on the information I have from CAT on the system they are about to install for me which is in the 5GHz band, or so they tell me.

How and where have you got CAT to install this system ?

Totster

[4evermaat]

bugger, i have a 9000 baht novatel mifi 2200 at my house on koh phangan and i have just confirmed i will have to buy a new device.

Apparently 3g is up and running though.

Been using CDMA for the last 2 years here in Krabi without many problems. Called CAT Krabi and they didn't know anything about the service being cancelled. What will happen to us monthly subscribers ? I pay 845 baht/month for CAT CDMA so if their dongle doesn't work anymore in the nearby future they have to give us something else..... we are paying monthly for a internet connection, aren't we ?

they wanted to sell them to TOT

milk out the cdma connection as long as possible. i guess a landline connection is the only flexible option for unlimited internet combined with the new 3g+.

i can also vouch for cdma being great most of the time. the maintenance must really outweigh the revenue brought in. i cannot imagine cat letting a cash cow go so willingly.

"The second best time to plant a tree is today" sent from TV android app (Galaxy Cooper).

Edited July 17, 2012 by 4evermaat

[trimesh]

bugger, i have a 9000 baht novatel mifi 2200 at my house on koh phangan and i have just confirmed i will have to buy a new device.

Apparently 3g is up and running though.

Been using CDMA for the last 2 years here in Krabi without many problems. Called CAT Krabi and they didn't know anything about the service being cancelled. What will happen to us monthly subscribers ? I pay 845 baht/month for CAT CDMA so if their dongle doesn't work anymore in the nearby future they have to give us something else..... we are paying monthly for a internet connection, aren't we ?

they wanted to sell them to TOT

milk out the cdma connection as long as possible. i guess a landline connection is the only flexible option for unlimited internet combined with the new 3g+.

i can also vouch for cdma being great most of the time. the maintenance must really outweigh the revenue brought in. i cannot imagine cat letting a cash cow go so willingly.

"The second best time to plant a tree is today" sent from TV android app (Galaxy Cooper).

I think they are just looking to the future - since the development of EV-DV and UMB have been canned, EV-DO is increasingly looking like a dead-end technology, to the extent where even though the EV-DO Rev. C spec has been released there is only one carrier (KDDI in Japan) who have plans to implement it. This basically means that they are going to have to embark on a disruptive transition at some point, and have apparently decided that sooner is better than later.

If they want to put a 900MHz UMTS network up, then they really have to turn off the EV-DO one since otherwise they would interfere with each other very badly - but once you have the UMTS network running (along with it's 3GPP backend) then it's quite easy to move up to LTE.

[stoutfella]

As this system is probably working in the 5GHz band what would a "directional antenna" look like?

That's highly speculative, there's nothing in the gp's post to suggest it's running on the 5GHz band. In any case, it might look like this

Or this

Congratulations, you're right it might look like those and my assumption that the TOT network will be in the 5GHz band is based on the information I have from CAT on the system they are about to install for me which is in the 5GHz band, or so they tell me.

How and where have you got CAT to install this system ?

Totster

I'm in the Loei area and I (well the wife) signed up today for a 20Mbps/2Mbps service at a cost of Bt2500 per month. They have plans from 12Mbps/2Mbps to 100Mbps/10Mbps at prices from Bt1500 to Bt25000 per month. I believe I may be the first in this area to have this service installed so it's a matter of wait and see regarding what will actually eventuate.

I am told that all packages are unlimited with no 4GB etc.cap. We shall see.

Edited July 17, 2012 by stoutfella

[Totster]

I'm in the Loei area and I (well the wife) signed up today for a 20Mbps/2Mbps service at a cost of Bt2500 per month. They have plans from 12Mbps/2Mbps to 100Mbps/10Mbps at prices from Bt1500 to Bt10500 per month. I believe I may be the first in this area to have this service installed so it's a matter of wait and see regarding what will actually eventuate.

I am told that all packages are unlimited with no 4GB etc.cap. We shall see.

Nice, I hope something like that comes to my area.. I shall pester TOT

totster

[Guest]

I'm in the Loei area and I (well the wife) signed up today for a 20Mbps/2Mbps service at a cost of Bt2500 per month. They have plans from 12Mbps/2Mbps to 100Mbps/10Mbps at prices from Bt1500 to Bt25000 per month. I believe I may be the first in this area to have this service installed so it's a matter of wait and see regarding what will actually eventuate.

I am told that all packages are unlimited with no 4GB etc.cap. We shall see.

How do you call this service / packet? I want one!

[stoutfella]

I'm in the Loei area and I (well the wife) signed up today for a 20Mbps/2Mbps service at a cost of Bt2500 per month. They have plans from 12Mbps/2Mbps to 100Mbps/10Mbps at prices from Bt1500 to Bt10500 per month. I believe I may be the first in this area to have this service installed so it's a matter of wait and see regarding what will actually eventuate.

I am told that all packages are unlimited with no 4GB etc.cap. We shall see.

Nice, I hope something like that comes to my area.. I shall pester TOT

totster

I tried TOT but it seems they are not as advanced as CAT where I am.

[stoutfella]

I'm in the Loei area and I (well the wife) signed up today for a 20Mbps/2Mbps service at a cost of Bt2500 per month. They have plans from 12Mbps/2Mbps to 100Mbps/10Mbps at prices from Bt1500 to Bt25000 per month. I believe I may be the first in this area to have this service installed so it's a matter of wait and see regarding what will actually eventuate.

I am told that all packages are unlimited with no 4GB etc.cap. We shall see.

How do you call this service / packet? I want one!

Talk nicely to the people in your local CAT office or even try TOT who are doing something similar but not where I am.

[Guest]

I'm in the Loei area and I (well the wife) signed up today for a 20Mbps/2Mbps service at a cost of Bt2500 per month. They have plans from 12Mbps/2Mbps to 100Mbps/10Mbps at prices from Bt1500 to Bt25000 per month. I believe I may be the first in this area to have this service installed so it's a matter of wait and see regarding what will actually eventuate.

I am told that all packages are unlimited with no 4GB etc.cap. We shall see.

How do you call this service / packet? I want one!

Talk nicely to the people in your local CAT office or even try TOT who are doing something similar but not where I am.

I will, but what is the name of this 5GHz wireless service?

I just spent 30 minutes on a phone to CAT with several people.. and none knows about another services. Eg. One who knows about Fiber optic connection, does not know about ADSL services nor CDMA etc..

Therefore I need an exact service name to proceed with the query

[stoutfella]

I'm in the Loei area and I (well the wife) signed up today for a 20Mbps/2Mbps service at a cost of Bt2500 per month. They have plans from 12Mbps/2Mbps to 100Mbps/10Mbps at prices from Bt1500 to Bt25000 per month. I believe I may be the first in this area to have this service installed so it's a matter of wait and see regarding what will actually eventuate.

I am told that all packages are unlimited with no 4GB etc.cap. We shall see.

How do you call this service / packet? I want one!

Talk nicely to the people in your local CAT office or even try TOT who are doing something similar but not where I am.

I will, but what is the name of this 5GHz wireless service?

I just spent 30 minutes on a phone to CAT with several people.. and none knows about another services. Eg. One who knows about Fiber optic connection, does not know about ADSL services nor CDMA etc..

Therefore I need an exact service name to proceed with the query

Attached is a scan of the only piece of paper I have regarding this service.

You could also try www.cat3g.net all the useful information in Thai unfortunately.

Edited July 17, 2012 by stoutfella

[Guest]

Ah. Ok. So it's likely Fiber optic connonection, not wireless.

http://www.catonnet.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=62&Itemid=57

[stoutfella]

Ah. Ok. So it's likely Fiber optic connonection, not wireless.

http://www.catonnet....id=62&Itemid=57

To the best of my knowledge they're installing a 5GHz radio link, certainly not fibre optic

[Totster]

Ah. Ok. So it's likely Fiber optic connonection, not wireless.

http://www.catonnet....id=62&Itemid=57

To the best of my knowledge they're installing a 5GHz radio link, certainly not fibre optic

Possibly fibre to the base station, then the radio link

totster

[stoutfella]

Ah. Ok. So it's likely Fiber optic connonection, not wireless.

http://www.catonnet....id=62&Itemid=57

To the best of my knowledge they're installing a 5GHz radio link, certainly not fibre optic

Possibly fibre to the base station, then the radio link

totster

What the link to their base station is I have no knowledge of and it is entirely their concern. The link to my premises from their base station is 5GHz radio and the clue to this is that it has to be "line of sight"

[Totster]

Ah. Ok. So it's likely Fiber optic connonection, not wireless.

http://www.catonnet....id=62&Itemid=57

To the best of my knowledge they're installing a 5GHz radio link, certainly not fibre optic

Possibly fibre to the base station, then the radio link

totster

What the link to their base station is I have no knowledge of and it is entirely their concern. The link to my premises from their base station is 5GHz radio and the clue to this is that it has to be "line of sight"

I was simply offering an explanation as to why the price scale is the same. I wasn't for one minute suggesting you were wrong, it seems perfectly plausible (in fact due to the speeds offered it is most probable) that you are using their fibre connection distributed over the radio, line of sight link.

Totster

Edited July 17, 2012 by Totster

[Guest]

I was simply offering an explanation as to why the price scale is the same. I wasn't for one minute suggesting you were wrong, it seems perfectly plausible (in fact due to the speeds offered it is most probable) that you are using their fibre connection distributed over the radio, line of sight link.

Totster

That even makes logical sense. Make one line to an sub urban location, not to all individual homes sounds cost effective as well.

[stoutfella]

Totster,

Apparently I've exceeded the permitted number of "blocks of text" so I am replying seperately.

"You're not suggesitng I took offence are you. That was not the case at all I was merely pointing out from my experience in the business of radio transmission that "line of sight" does not and cannot apply to optical fibre. I say this from my years of experience in both optical fibre communication systems and radio network planning in GSM 900/1800 systems. I will elucidate if requested."

[Guest]

Totster,

"You're not suggesitng I took offence are you. That was not the case at all I was merely pointing out from my experience in the business of radio transmission that "line of sight" does not and cannot apply to optical fibre. I say this from my years of experience in both optical fibre communication systems and radio network planning in GSM 900/1800 systems. I will elucidate if requested."

I think something just got lost in translation..

So the setup could be following:

- Fiber connection from CAT network to a local 'basestation', which is installed to an housing estate.

- This local 'basestation' uses 5GHz Wi-fi signal to share the connection to the houses on the estate. This could also explain why there needs to be certain number of houses which want to have the connection. To share the costs of the basestation and the fiber & stuff.

- Houses have 5GHz tranceivers (the white boxes), which then share the connection with either Ethernet or Wi-fi (2.4GHz) to the house.

And actually.. the fiber optic cables require line of sight.. the light just can bend a bit inside of the cable

[Totster]

Totster,

Apparently I've exceeded the permitted number of "blocks of text" so I am replying seperately.

"You're not suggesitng I took offence are you. That was not the case at all I was merely pointing out from my experience in the business of radio transmission that "line of sight" does not and cannot apply to optical fibre. I say this from my years of experience in both optical fibre communication systems and radio network planning in GSM 900/1800 systems. I will elucidate if requested."

It was the tone of the reply that made me think you took offense, but it seems this tone is normal for you. I'm sure you know a great deal more than me regarding fibre and radio networks as I am no expert and don't claim to be.

However, I have not at any point said that "line of sight" applies to fibre. If you read my post again you will see that I am suggesting that the link to the base station is probably a fibre connection. It is then switched to a radio connection for you and others to use.

This would explain why the price list you attached is for the CAT ON NET service (which is their fibre service).

As I am not an expert as you are I have probably not used the correct terminology, for that I apologise but I'm sure someone with your knowledge and experience can understand what I am trying to say, after all 'oilinki' seemed to grasp what I was saying, but then he may be as ignorant as you think I am about these things.

There is no need for you to elucidate, it was just a theory and I have no desire to be bombarded with 'expert' technical jargon when it really isn't needed

Totster

[stoutfella]

Totster,

"You're not suggesitng I took offence are you. That was not the case at all I was merely pointing out from my experience in the business of radio transmission that "line of sight" does not and cannot apply to optical fibre. I say this from my years of experience in both optical fibre communication systems and radio network planning in GSM 900/1800 systems. I will elucidate if requested."

I think something just got lost in translation..

So the setup could be following:

- Fiber connection from CAT network to a local 'basestation', which is installed to an housing estate.

- This local 'basestation' uses 5GHz Wi-fi signal to share the connection to the houses on the estate. This could also explain why there needs to be certain number of houses which want to have the connection. To share the costs of the basestation and the fiber & stuff.

- Houses have 5GHz tranceivers (the white boxes), which then share the connection with either Ethernet or Wi-fi (2.4GHz) to the house.

And actually.. the fiber optic cables require line of sight.. the light just can bend a bit inside of the cable

I'm sorry to have to tell you that you are wrong about optical fibres. They can be be bent up to the critical bend radius as the light is guided round the bend because the fibres are made from materians with different refractive indices in their cross section.

If, as you claim, optical fibres require "line of sight" then all undergrond cable ducts would have to be in straight lines and I don't believe that is the case.

You might to look at these for illumination.

http://en.wikipedia....efractive_index

http://www.rp-photon...end_losses.html

http://adsabs.harvar...SPIE.5618...30M

Remember these?

http://www.antiquesnavigator.com/d-1003729/70s-vintage-retro-light--<deleted>-dogs-fibre-optic-tree-table-lamp--eames-era.html

No straight lines!

Edited July 18, 2012 by stoutfella

[Guest]

And actually.. the fiber optic cables require line of sight.. the light just can bend a bit inside of the cable

I'm sorry to have to tell you that you are wrong about optical fibres. They can be be bent up to the critical bend radius as the light is guided round the bend because the fibres are made from materians with different refractive indices in their cross section.

If, as you claim, optical fibres require "line of sight" then all undergrond cable ducts would have to be in straight lines and I don't believe that is the case.

Uh.. I just tried to amuse myself a bit. Obviously It did work for me, but not to others. I'll be quiet now...

[nocturn]

And actually.. the fiber optic cables require line of sight.. the light just can bend a bit inside of the cable

I'm sorry to have to tell you that you are wrong about optical fibres. They can be be bent up to the critical bend radius as the light is guided round the bend because the fibres are made from materians with different refractive indices in their cross section.

If, as you claim, optical fibres require "line of sight" then all undergrond cable ducts would have to be in straight lines and I don't believe that is the case.

Uh.. I just tried to amuse myself a bit. Obviously It did work for me, but not to others. I'll be quiet now...

no keep it up, anyone that severely lacking a sense of humour deserves a piss take.

[nikster]

I used to use CAT CDMA for years. True - H (operated by CAT and the same as the new CAT system) is much faster. It will be limited, e.g. you buy a data package and anything above is throttled but that's unavoidable with any wireless technology. Bandwidth is limited so if some people are tormenting 24/7 they destroy it for everyone else.

CAT CDMA got away with having real unlimited access by two factors: One, it's pretty slow. And two, it was never in heavy use, probably running a loss on the network. True-H / CAT MyClick is in heavy use, of course, thanks to True subscribers. MyClick will probably have the same number as CAT CDMA, e.g., not many.

[bobl]

Bandwidth is limited so if some people are tormenting 24/7 they destroy it for everyone else.

I'm sorry, but I can't let that slide without comment. The internet has been around for 40+ years and bandwidth has always been limited. Yet it works. If you understand why it works, you will understand why the above statement is inaccurate.

To understand why it works, you have to go back to the early days. Consider dial-up internet. There was a time when ISPs had a customer to modem ratio of 20:1 - that is, 1 modem per 20 customers. Even in those days, you always had somebody who was a system hog. But for every one of those, you had 20 who logged on once a day for 5 minutes to check their mail, and you had a few who logged on only a few times a month.

Wind forward to today's internet, pretty much the same ratios exist. On a properly set up system the "hogs" torrenting 24/7 well of course they affect your bandwidth requirements - but not nearly as much as you would think, because they are vastly outnumbered by "normal" users.

The same principal applies to many aspects of modern life. The guy who goes back to the counter 4 times at an all you can eat buffet doesn't put the restaurant out of business. The guy who checks into the budget hotel and uses his tv, fridge and a/c 24/7 for the duration of his stay doesn't put the hotel out of business.

On the subject of bandwidth, it is important to undertand bandwidth math and I'm not about to teach it here. Suffice to say, that on a decent internet connection it is virtually impossible for even the most hardcore user, to torrent 24/7. Consider a figure of only 1Mbps - a fraction of the speed advertised by wireless providers. This is capable of approximately 300Gb/month running 24/7. I've run everything from Bulletin Boards in the 80's to being an ISP in the 90's and 00's, and I've met just about every type of user imaginable - but I can count on one hand the number of people I know who could consume 300Gb a month. Even if it's a newbie like a kid in a candy store, the load on your bandwidth will be transient - he will simply run out of stuff to download!

To cut a long story short, don't buy into the hype that bandwidth hogs "destroy it for everyone else". It's simply not true. Wireless companies are more than happy to have you think so, and continue to think that a 4Gb package is generous. This is where you have to think outside the box slightly, and consider what you're actually paying for. At 4Gb a month, they are "selling" you a bandwidth average of 20Kbps (20Kbps x 24/7 x 1 month is roughly 4Gb).

I am not saying that wireless technology is capable of sustaining nearly the bandwidth nor the number of customers that fixed line is capable of, nor do I see wireless internet being capable of doing so in the forseeable future. But I can tell you with some degree of confidence that limits of 1Gb, 4Gb etc are 90% about maximising profit and 10% about preserving "fair use" of the bandwidth.

[necronx99]

For what it's worth, the service you are all talking about is called Wi-Net.

The English pages of both tot and cat have no information about it but most tot offices have an advertising banner regarding it hanging on their fence, at least they do up country.

[bobl]

@Necronx99 Finally a name for the service - thank you!

I asked at CAT in Chiang Mai but they were totally clueless, like their web site. At least now I have a name to hit them with, and ask the guys in the front with the blank stare to please go to the back office, find a techie, and ask him to fill them in on this "new" service...

[necronx99]

@Necronx99 Finally a name for the service - thank you!

I asked at CAT in Chiang Mai but they were totally clueless, like their web site. At least now I have a name to hit them with, and ask the guys in the front with the blank stare to please go to the back office, find a techie, and ask him to fill them in on this "new" service...

Cat call it cat-on-net I think.. And both refer to it as a fibre connection, not wifi. All very confusing.

[Guest]

Bandwidth is limited so if some people are tormenting 24/7 they destroy it for everyone else.

I'm sorry, but I can't let that slide without comment. The internet has been around for 40+ years and bandwidth has always been limited. Yet it works. If you understand why it works, you will understand why the above statement is inaccurate.

To understand why it works, you have to go back to the early days. Consider dial-up internet. There was a time when ISPs had a customer to modem ratio of 20:1 - that is, 1 modem per 20 customers. Even in those days, you always had somebody who was a system hog. But for every one of those, you had 20 who logged on once a day for 5 minutes to check their mail, and you had a few who logged on only a few times a month.

Wind forward to today's internet, pretty much the same ratios exist. On a properly set up system the "hogs" torrenting 24/7 well of course they affect your bandwidth requirements - but not nearly as much as you would think, because they are vastly outnumbered by "normal" users.

The same principal applies to many aspects of modern life. The guy who goes back to the counter 4 times at an all you can eat buffet doesn't put the restaurant out of business. The guy who checks into the budget hotel and uses his tv, fridge and a/c 24/7 for the duration of his stay doesn't put the hotel out of business.

On the subject of bandwidth, it is important to undertand bandwidth math and I'm not about to teach it here. Suffice to say, that on a decent internet connection it is virtually impossible for even the most hardcore user, to torrent 24/7. Consider a figure of only 1Mbps - a fraction of the speed advertised by wireless providers. This is capable of approximately 300Gb/month running 24/7. I've run everything from Bulletin Boards in the 80's to being an ISP in the 90's and 00's, and I've met just about every type of user imaginable - but I can count on one hand the number of people I know who could consume 300Gb a month. Even if it's a newbie like a kid in a candy store, the load on your bandwidth will be transient - he will simply run out of stuff to download!

To cut a long story short, don't buy into the hype that bandwidth hogs "destroy it for everyone else". It's simply not true. Wireless companies are more than happy to have you think so, and continue to think that a 4Gb package is generous. This is where you have to think outside the box slightly, and consider what you're actually paying for. At 4Gb a month, they are "selling" you a bandwidth average of 20Kbps (20Kbps x 24/7 x 1 month is roughly 4Gb).

I am not saying that wireless technology is capable of sustaining nearly the bandwidth nor the number of customers that fixed line is capable of, nor do I see wireless internet being capable of doing so in the forseeable future. But I can tell you with some degree of confidence that limits of 1Gb, 4Gb etc are 90% about maximising profit and 10% about preserving "fair use" of the bandwidth.

You have very good points there. Made me alter my view.

Then again, there are differences to the old times (I guess these vary between contries). At least for me back in the old dial up modem times I was paying each minute or each 6-minute for the connection on my phone bill during the day. During night time the calls were billed by the connection, not by minutes. This was kind of an equivalent to the caps today.

Also nowdays it's easy to leave computer or router on to keep on downloading movies or TV-series for all times, while the user is not actively using the computer. The case is also a bit different compared to downloading emails every now and then.

And finally.. Telcos do limit the usage, because it's pretty easy to do. As you said, they can charge for more when they do this.

Do you or anyone else have knowledge, how much data can one CAT or any other 3G/HSPA/LTE provider can transmit with one directional antenna? What is the full capacity given the spectrum they are allocated and technology they are using (let's assume 1 BS have 3 directional antennas)? Not on customer side, but on basestation side. Also what are the speeds from the BS to their core network?

What I'm wondering, how many customers who download data on average of 200kbps can one BS antenna support. Just to get an overall idea.