Cambodian Troops 'Fire At Bangkok Airways Jet': Thai Army

[Acemaker]

The Commander concerned should be relieved of duty. In terms of air traffic what the cambodian military did is an international violation and whilst there seems to have been many jokes on this thread, the simple fact of the matter is thank <deleted> they did not hit and critically damage the aircraft. HOW can the cambodian commander be protecting cambodian airspace without first contacting the appropriate civil aviation and military aviation authorities!

Welcome To The Third World !

[Singlebarrel]

Badaboom. Thai army having a scrap one day before the biggest legal court decision in Thailand history.

expect huge movements of armoured vehicles through Bangkok tomorrow on their way to the Cambodian border.

Strewth, it is so obvious I can't believe no one thought about this as being the entire train for this story.

Occurred to me early, but I was not online.

Same old same old. Nationalism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

Then again a good excuse to mobilize the army prior to the redshirts called for

fight to the death if they don't like the ruling, makes perfect sense from a security standpoint.

Curious also that 'Yingluck is reportedly going to Cambodia tomorrow'.

Could this be a way of scuppering it without face lose?

She like her brother did not want to be in country when military does a coup....

[Singlebarrel]

The Commander concerned should be relieved of duty. In terms of air traffic what the cambodian military did is an international violation and whilst there seems to have been many jokes on this thread, the simple fact of the matter is thank <deleted> they did not hit and critically damage the aircraft. HOW can the cambodian commander be protecting cambodian airspace without first contacting the appropriate civil aviation and military aviation authorities!

Oh my god!!! Don't relieve him!!! The next one might know how to shoot.

Cambodian commander : shoot first ask questions later....

[robertson468]

Come on Thaks, have a word with your buddy. He can't just go shooting at anything that moves even there was one of your TV critics on board!

Bangkok Airline is cheap airline....no risk that any family member sit inside.

Bagnkok Airways is not a cheap airline. It is a full service arline.

I think it was meant as a joke? Someone a bit touchy, anyway, not all their planes have 1st class facilities.

[chooka]

That's it I'm moving to Cambodia... oh wait

Ok bye,

p.s take a bus.

[ginjag]

I hate to say this but, maybe they were worried of another 9/11 incident. Bit conversational to say it but you know. Could big probs at ASEAN meeting.

They aren't exactly full of targets of the esteem of the Twin Towers of the WTC, nor a likely AQ victim.

The prices of BKK Air charge their planes would be fitted with radar guided missiles to knock out any GATTLING guns placed around.

[EyesWideOpen]

This story simply has to be made up..... If some rounds were shot off, I suspect the commander there would certainly not be on the phone to Phnom Penh telling what happened. Unless bullets were zipping through the cabin the Thai side would have no idea either. And if for some reason the government in Phnom Penh knew, they certainly not be telling Thailand they were shooting at their jet.

So the real story is who has made this story up, and equally important why.....

Edited July 13, 2012 by EyesWideOpen

[SuneeTH]

Is that a Dubai order to shoot at her own sister's plane 1 day in advance?

Quite possible, so he take back what is his, the PM job.

[Skywalker69]

and yingluck's going there to meet clinton tomorrow!

In the oval room?

[IMA_FARANG]

Exactly what I thought when I first read that headline.

But shouldn't the actual quote be," Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel"?

And I bet we all know who that scoundrel is, don't we?

Edited July 13, 2012 by IMA_FARANG

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[ripstanley]

This story has made the Australian media http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-13/confusion-over-shooting-of-bangkok-airways-flight/4129812

[Skywalker69]

A few possibilities here

- it was an honest mistake

- Thai army stiring up troubles ahead of CC verdict

- Cambodean army practising a 21-gun salute for tomorrow a bit past 3PM

You forgot ... It's the yellow shirts fault ... or the Democrats ...

Sent from my shoe phone

Noooo......its the farangs.

[kruangfaifar]

proof that big brother in his sandpit is loosing his feathers and influence: a convicted criminal anyhow.

Hun Sen also wants to go more "international" and recognize justice from its neighbouring countries, although...

Another conclusion is that communication between Thailand and Cambodia is not working or deliberatey is not activated... I have my thoughts on this. One doesn't start shooting unidentified aircrafts without knowing who exactly they are shooting at. On the other hand, foreign aircrafts being competely off-course do not venture in foreign airspace without informing the country authorities of what is happening.

The plane wasn't off course he was circling waiting to land. Thinking back a few years I remember that:

The Russians shot down a Korean Airlines 747 whose pilots had gone off course without realising it.

The US shot down an Iranian airliner over International airspace because they couldn't tell the difference between an airliner and an F-14 ( so they say)

I guess it is lucky that the Cambodian army doesn't appear to have surface to air missiles

And bye the way speculators Bangkok traffic wasn't bad today and no sign of the Army in the city

[Nisa]

proof that big brother in his sandpit is loosing his feathers and influence: a convicted criminal anyhow.

Hun Sen also wants to go more "international" and recognize justice from its neighbouring countries, although...

Another conclusion is that communication between Thailand and Cambodia is not working or deliberatey is not activated... I have my thoughts on this. One doesn't start shooting unidentified aircrafts without knowing who exactly they are shooting at. On the other hand, foreign aircrafts being competely off-course do not venture in foreign airspace without informing the country authorities of what is happening.

The plane wasn't off course he was circling waiting to land. Thinking back a few years I remember that:

The Russians shot down a Korean Airlines 747 whose pilots had gone off course without realising it.

The US shot down an Iranian airliner over International airspace because they couldn't tell the difference between an airliner and an F-14 ( so they say)

I guess it is lucky that the Cambodian army doesn't appear to have surface to air missiles

And bye the way speculators Bangkok traffic wasn't bad today and no sign of the Army in the city

I would think if it entered Cambodia airspace without permission then it was indeed off course ... in no way am I indicating the response was proper but just clarifying it does seem like they may have been off course.

[Nisa]

Passenger's were startled by gun fire! Nyuh huh .. How did this even get reported?

Clandestine Ops to obtain a new secret Larb Moo recipe no doubt.

A military machine gun generally intermittently fires tracer rounds that will glow which allow the troop to know where the rounds are going. Depending on the altitude of the plane and were the shots came from, there is a good chance at least the pilots knew they were being fired upon or at the least somebody was firing military rounds in the air below them.

[canuckamuck]

proof that big brother in his sandpit is loosing his feathers and influence: a convicted criminal anyhow.

Hun Sen also wants to go more "international" and recognize justice from its neighbouring countries, although...

Another conclusion is that communication between Thailand and Cambodia is not working or deliberatey is not activated... I have my thoughts on this. One doesn't start shooting unidentified aircrafts without knowing who exactly they are shooting at. On the other hand, foreign aircrafts being competely off-course do not venture in foreign airspace without informing the country authorities of what is happening.

The plane wasn't off course he was circling waiting to land. Thinking back a few years I remember that:

The Russians shot down a Korean Airlines 747 whose pilots had gone off course without realising it.

The US shot down an Iranian airliner over International airspace because they couldn't tell the difference between an airliner and an F-14 ( so they say)

I guess it is lucky that the Cambodian army doesn't appear to have surface to air missiles

And bye the way speculators Bangkok traffic wasn't bad today and no sign of the Army in the city

I would think if it entered Cambodia airspace without permission then it was indeed off course ... in no way am I indicating the response was proper but just clarifying it does seem like they may have been off course.

It was in Cambodian airspace because it was scheduled to land in Cambodia (Siem Reap). It likely had a number of Cambodians on board as well.

[OzMick]

/>

A military machine gun generally intermittently fires tracer rounds that will glow which allow the troop to know where the rounds are going. Depending on the altitude of the plane and were the shots came from, there is a good chance at least the pilots knew they were being fired upon or at the least somebody was firing military rounds in the air below them.

From the OP, the plane was flying "very high", couldn't land because of bad weather (heavy rain, low cloud??) and there is NO indication that the pilots were even aware of the event, if it occurred. BTW military machine-guns (as opposed to civilian machine-guns?) do not "generally" use tracers as they have the unwelcome effect of letting those you are firing at know where you are firing from.

[tombkk]

Passenger's were startled by gun fire! Nyuh huh .. How did this even get reported?

Clandestine Ops to obtain a new secret Larb Moo recipe no doubt.

A military machine gun generally intermittently fires tracer rounds that will glow which allow the troop to know where the rounds are going. Depending on the altitude of the plane and were the shots came from, there is a good chance at least the pilots knew they were being fired upon or at the least somebody was firing military rounds in the air below them.

Hm. I don't know where you get this wisdom from that Cambodian machine guns use tracers rounds.

But let's play with it, and please explain how the one being shot at could see the tracers. These are at the bottom end of the bullets, so that the shooter can see them... Enemy ground troops can see them too (that's the problem about them), but not the intended recipient. Unless the technology has advanced in the last 30 years since I was a soldier, that is.

[sunshine51]

Passenger's were startled by gun fire! Nyuh huh .. How did this even get reported?

Clandestine Ops to obtain a new secret Larb Moo recipe no doubt.

A military machine gun generally intermittently fires tracer rounds that will glow which allow the troop to know where the rounds are going. Depending on the altitude of the plane and were the shots came from, there is a good chance at least the pilots knew they were being fired upon or at the least somebody was firing military rounds in the air below them.

Hm. I don't know where you get this wisdom from that Cambodian machine guns use tracers rounds.

But let's play with it, and please explain how the one being shot at could see the tracers. These are at the bottom end of the bullets, so that the shooter can see them... Enemy ground troops can see them too (that's the problem about them), but not the intended recipient. Unless the technology has advanced in the last 30 years since I was a soldier, that is.

Tombkk....

Nothing has changed. Back during WWII many allied pilots told their armorers to not load

a tracer every 5th round and the pilots kills increased substantially. My dad was a pilot

back then & the one who told me the story. When I was a participant in the Great

Southeast Asian War Games (2nd place holder) we unlinked the tracers in our

7.62 belts for our M60's...our results went up too! I know this because I carried

"The Pig"...what the M60 was known as...many times.

The Russian 12.7mm heavy machine gun has about the same range as the

Browning M2 .50cal heavy machine gun because the projectile is almost

the same diameter. If the aircraft was at 10 Km altitude the rounds would

have no effect but the pilots could have seen the tracer flare depending

on cloud cover thickness even though the rounds would fall way short.

Since we don't know about the cloud thickness this is all theoretical.

Mind you they do have IR tracers today!

[Nisa]

Passenger's were startled by gun fire! Nyuh huh .. How did this even get reported?

Clandestine Ops to obtain a new secret Larb Moo recipe no doubt.

A military machine gun generally intermittently fires tracer rounds that will glow which allow the troop to know where the rounds are going. Depending on the altitude of the plane and were the shots came from, there is a good chance at least the pilots knew they were being fired upon or at the least somebody was firing military rounds in the air below them.

Hm. I don't know where you get this wisdom from that Cambodian machine guns use tracers rounds.

But let's play with it, and please explain how the one being shot at could see the tracers. These are at the bottom end of the bullets, so that the shooter can see them... Enemy ground troops can see them too (that's the problem about them), but not the intended recipient. Unless the technology has advanced in the last 30 years since I was a soldier, that is.

Tracer rounds can be seen from every direction and as far as I know have always been this way. The only modernizing of them has been to delay the ignition of the tracer to prevent the enemy (the one being shot at) from seeing the exact location of where the shot came from.

And with out much of any doubt, the Cambodian machine gun would have had tracer bullets loaded (standard every 5th round) as is standard fighting tactic.

An article from previous disturbance in the area ...

Tracer bullets cut through the dark and shelling could be heard from a 4.6-sq-km (two-sq-mile) contested area around the 11th-century Preah Vihear temple on a jungle-clad escarpment claimed by both Southeast Asian neighbors, witnesses said.

http://www.reuters.c...E7151K320110206

Edited July 13, 2012 by Nisa

[Nisa]

proof that big brother in his sandpit is loosing his feathers and influence: a convicted criminal anyhow.

Hun Sen also wants to go more "international" and recognize justice from its neighbouring countries, although...

Another conclusion is that communication between Thailand and Cambodia is not working or deliberatey is not activated... I have my thoughts on this. One doesn't start shooting unidentified aircrafts without knowing who exactly they are shooting at. On the other hand, foreign aircrafts being competely off-course do not venture in foreign airspace without informing the country authorities of what is happening.

The plane wasn't off course he was circling waiting to land. Thinking back a few years I remember that:

The Russians shot down a Korean Airlines 747 whose pilots had gone off course without realising it.

The US shot down an Iranian airliner over International airspace because they couldn't tell the difference between an airliner and an F-14 ( so they say)

I guess it is lucky that the Cambodian army doesn't appear to have surface to air missiles

And bye the way speculators Bangkok traffic wasn't bad today and no sign of the Army in the city

I would think if it entered Cambodia airspace without permission then it was indeed off course ... in no way am I indicating the response was proper but just clarifying it does seem like they may have been off course.

It was in Cambodian airspace because it was scheduled to land in Cambodia (Siem Reap). It likely had a number of Cambodians on board as well.

My bad ... I read the article when it first appeared here but forgot the details.

[Nisa]

/>

A military machine gun generally intermittently fires tracer rounds that will glow which allow the troop to know where the rounds are going. Depending on the altitude of the plane and were the shots came from, there is a good chance at least the pilots knew they were being fired upon or at the least somebody was firing military rounds in the air below them.

From the OP, the plane was flying "very high", couldn't land because of bad weather (heavy rain, low cloud??) and there is NO indication that the pilots were even aware of the event, if it occurred. BTW military machine-guns (as opposed to civilian machine-guns?) do not "generally" use tracers as they have the unwelcome effect of letting those you are firing at know where you are firing from.

The could see the plane but the not the details from the ground due to darkness but the plane couldn't see burning phosphorous (very bright) in the night?

"It was dark so we could not see what type of plane it was. But it was circling many times and then our soldiers fired 18 shots from a machine gun, but it missed the plane because it was flying very high," Commander Seng Phearin told AFP.

Shooting at a plane would be exactly the time when tracer rounds would be of HUGE help in both directing the fire and understanding the altitude of the plane and if it was within range of small weapon fire.

However, there is nothing reported yet that anyone on the plane was aware of ground fire as it happened. I was simply pointing out a logical possibility. Of course it is certainly possible too that the Cambodian military alerted the news, Thailand or Bangkok Air that they ignorantly fired on a civilian aircraft.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Nisa

[Sheryl]

They can't afford radar and radio's etc, couldn't ask the unidentified to identify itself first ?.....

From the described location, this was near the border, which is pretty far from Siem Reap and not near any towns, really barren and remote. A border outpost in the back of beyond would hardly be likely to have (or need) equipment with which to contact aircraft.Nor would they normally have any need to. Not saying it was right or smart to fire on it, but it is not realistic to expect them to have had the capacity to contact the plane or identify it. It is also very odd that a plane trying to land in Siem Reap would be circling that far away. If it was the border area that planes normally fly over en route to Siem Reap then it was around 200 kms from it, which makes it an odd spot to be circling. If it was the border due north of Siem Reap, then not in the usual flight path at all. Either way, odd and unexpected behavior in a tense border region. Lucky no one was hurt.

[ripstanley]

In the news item on the ABC (see post 102) the following was stated.

"Military spokesmen from both sides say Cambodian troops stationed at the border thought the jet was a spy plane and fired shots from a machine gun to warn it off.

The jet was unaffected as it was flying too high to be hit.

However Bangkok Airways says none of its planes were fired upon."

[metisdead]

A nonsensical trollish post has been removed.

[Sheryl]

A more pressing question may be....why does the Siem Reap airport -- an international airport, no less -- not have sufficient equipment to enable a plane to land in foggy conditions?

[Thai at Heart]

Something is really fishy about this story. The disputed border area near Preah Vihear Temple is about 200 km North-East from Siem Reap airport where the Bangkok Airways flight was supposedly heading to and that was "closed due to bad weather". If that was true the plane would be circling somewhere on the way to Siem Reap (from Bangkok I presume) or over the area of landing and NOT traveling in the opposite direction adding extra miles and consuming extra fuel for nothing.

The fact that Bangkok Airways didn't confirm the incident also makes me suspicious if it ever happened. Was there anything on the idiot Cambodian trigger-happy soldiers firing at civilian aircraft in the Cambodian press? If true, the incident should definitely be grounds to reliving the local commander of his duties. But, somehow, I feel the whole story is a beat-up designed to stir-up trouble and to make Cambodian army look stupid.

Maybe it was a spyplane and the bangkok airways story is a cover? maybe someone wanted a peek. Today i saw loads of Thai army equipment on 304 going north towards korat. Maybe going to the border?

[Payboy]

A more pressing question may be....why does the Siem Reap airport -- an international airport, no less -- not have sufficient equipment to enable a plane to land in foggy conditions?

Dunno if the ATR's flown by Bangkok Airways have ALS.

[Thai at Heart]

A more pressing question may be....why does the Siem Reap airport -- an international airport, no less -- not have sufficient equipment to enable a plane to land in foggy conditions?

Dunno if the ATR's flown by Bangkok Airways have ALS.

Since when is there fog at 7pm in the tropics. Temperature inversion at 30c, at sunset?

Maybe Cambodia has created a fog making technology to challenge Thailand rainmaking?

Edited July 13, 2012 by Thai at Heart